CMV: Women's unrealistic standards has led to the collapse of birth rate/marriage rate

AntifaSuperSwoledier · 2021-07-25T12:11:39+00:00

Good majority of women are demanding 5'11" and up

Where is this figure from?

HighTMale12 · 2021-07-25T11:48:00+00:00

[permanently deleted]

relish5k · 2021-07-25T13:35:55+00:00

Marriage and childbirth are going down because people / women don't want these things until they can feel financially secure. For Lower socioeconomic classes, this means that marriage may just never happen. (College educated white females are the women who are most likely to get married so it seems unlikely that their standards have anything to do with decreases in overall marriage).

Today about 85% of women have children, which is actually an increase over the last 15 years. It's just that women are having fewer children because they are starting their families later in life when they are more financially secure. Which, if you asking me, is a fucking great idea.

Creation_Soul · 2021-07-25T12:12:16+00:00

I have said this before and will say this again: a lot of children that were had in the past were not really "wanted", they just happened because people liked sex and children were the consequence of sex. But now, people can better control their fertility and are not at the mercy of chance when having sex.

Hell, I have been with my wife for 10 years (married for 3) and if the amount of sex we had would have remained the same, but not used any contraception, no matter how careful we were, we would have had at least a couple of kids by now.

The number of kids had in the past is just not representative of how many children people actually wanted; without control over fertility we cannot really talk about preference over children.

lostwanderer28 · 2021-07-25T12:25:58+00:00

A few things at least in the US:

Millennials are not having children. A majority of millenials are economically disadvantaged to say the least. This can put off having children, let alone looking for someone to get married.
Women can stand on their own two feet without a man and are expected to do so. Therefore, women can make higher demands when finding a partner and having children, even if it's delusional.

The women who truly want kids will either settle in their 30s or 40s or become SMBC. There's no other way around it.

I think the underemployment for millennials and rising inflation of items/rent is what is causing this. Millennials either don't want their kids to suffer their childhood or they are putting off having children due to economic uncertainties.

A woman can now choose to be even pickier with a mate and most women want equal or higher than themselves. Women are now college educated and expected to hold careers while being mothers. They are going to be pickier than ever, so they don't feel the need to do two or three jobs at once.

lmc80 · 2021-07-25T14:13:54+00:00

I mean, you could argue that population increase isn't a good thing for the planet anyway, so why does it matter if there ends up being fewer people overall?

poppy_blu · 2021-07-25T12:19:54+00:00

The birth rate is highest in poor communities and countries where “wiMimZ sTanDerdZ” are irrelevant.

Birth rates are low in the developed world and higher income communities because of birth control and the high cost of raising children that makes responsible people chose to have fewer children. There’s also the realization that having a ton of kids isn’t the best for the kids in the long run.

I also find it laughably ironic that the majority of men on PPD who keep beating this dead horse are in fact high earning stem nerds. 100k+ salaries are dime a dozen. So if it were the case that women demand 100k salaries why are they single?

At some point you have to come to terms with the fact that the reason you can’t close is (proverbial) you, not anyone else. Own your shortcomings and fix them. Or don’t and opt out.

There is nothing less attractive to women and more worthy of scorn by men than a man who whines about life being unfair and walks around telling people he’s a victim.

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-07-25T12:19:43+00:00

Spent yesterday at a water park surrounded by little kids. More good looking moms than dads. Quit trying to get laid only online.

PollaTronante · 2021-07-25T14:02:21+00:00

I don't see the problem.

If people want to have certain standards, let them have certain standards. Maybe they'll lower them eventually, maybe they won't. Maybe they'll meet someone eventually, maybe they won't.

Either way, how is it any of your concern?

trettles · 2021-07-25T11:55:11+00:00

It’s probably a case that the women you want are objectively too good for you. There are a lot of women who date average men, but you are probably not interested in them.

LillthOfBabylon · 2021-07-25T11:45:47+00:00

Sir, women have lives to live and it doesnt involve being men’s mommy-fleshlight baby factory anymore.

that the collective female hypergamy has gone on steroids

More women are marrying men who less than them than ever before.

In 1960, 2% of women putearned their husbands. Now that’s up to 25%. When you include non-mothers, that goes up to 30%.

Men loved hypergamy, which is why they forced women to financially depend on men before feminism.

The person got the most pussy werent the hottest. They were the richest. Aristocrats, nobility, and warlords. They paid or bought women, mot seduce them.

and has led to the collapse of birth rates in the Western world.

Women demand men make 100K+ to marry/have children (very common among White females especially college educated):

NEWSFLASH! Then dont go after college educated women. You guys cant complain about women leeching off the government, and then also whine that we expect men to have a certain income to impregnate.

Women's height demands: Good majority of women are demanding 5'11" and up: about 15% of male population

PROVE IT. Research says they dont.

Women are demanding men in good shape/not obese:

Then most men in American would get laid and married and yet, they are.

Pablo_el_Diablo88 · 2021-07-25T12:20:07+00:00

I don't understand, is this a problem for you as an individual or for the population, in your opinion?

YMaedchen · 2021-07-25T12:21:34+00:00

Marriage and birth rates are low because it's the first time in human history since marriage was invented that it's socially acceptable not to have children and marry.

You couldn't have chosen to live child free and without a man in the 1800. (if you didn't want to be a nun) But now women have the option to choose. Or men for that matter.

Children used to be your pension insurance. If you didn't have any, you didn't have anyone who'll take care of you once you can't do it on your own anymore.

That you actually believe women being picky is the reason birth and marriage rates are getting lower just shows how out of touch with reality most men on here are.

MyrganGyrgan · 2021-07-25T11:45:51+00:00

I really don't think most women genuinely believe they deserve to be with a 6'4" 10/10 six figure salary adonis. How do you explain all the average looking schlubs in relationships with women? Sure you could say women tend to have lofty standards, but I think eventually most of them come to reckon with those standards and become more realistic about their relationships as they get older.

PM_ME_SPICY_DECKS · 2021-07-25T14:20:45+00:00

Far more likely the result of an economy where most families cannot live on a single income hence people don't wanna have kids cuz they can't afford daycare either

Sen_ri · 2021-07-25T14:23:14+00:00

Women in households living below the poverty line have the highest birth rates. What makes you think birth rates have to do with unrealistic dating standards? The ability to plan your family, and limit your number of children, is a separate topic. People have always had more children than they actually wanted. Do you want people to have more children than they can properly raise?

I don’t see a good majority of women demanding the things you say, you’re being pretty specific. If you want to talk about the preferences of college educated white women, well that’s a subset of the population.

Like average married man at 30 makes 55k, and at 40 makes 80k. With married white men being the highest earning demographic. Their earnings peak at 90k in their mid to late 40’s.

And most women are dating and marrying average height men. If you think height preferences are an evolutionary trait then it doesn’t make sense for that to inhibit people from pairing up and having children. This study explains how height preferences being relative would be a thing to increase the dating pool of women https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1691293/pdf/12713744.pdf. Plenty of surveys show women saying this as well.

5’11’’ and up is also not that unusual at all for the demographic you seem to care about. In the US 20-39 year old white women are 5’5’’ on average and white men 5’10’’. I believe a 6’’ difference is what a lot of women show preference for, which is more than the average difference between men and women but not dramatically reducing their dating pools the way you think.

Research shows that couples tend to have similar BMI’s and that obese people especially tend to marry other obese people. So I think your idea that women are demanding men be fitter is just not true. If you’re trying to date fit women though you should be fit yourself.

CFinCanada · 2021-07-25T14:48:19+00:00

27% of adults are straight-up childfree per their own words according to a study out of Michigan. Bella DePaulo has written extensively about men and women who are "single at heart" and made claustrophobic by marriage, especially conventional marriage. You act like everyone wants to get married and have kids. Not the case. If people do not want to get married and/or have kids, then them getting what they want, to not do those things, is neither a disaster nor something to be lamented. Just... calm down.

milkyymochii · 2021-07-25T18:38:44+00:00

I enjoy watching Kevin Samuels

Saved me from reading the rest of this shit phew

Nice_Pass2393 · 2021-07-25T13:09:02+00:00

So men need to improve themselves if they want us to have babies. Survival of the fittest

Nice_Pass2393 · 2021-07-25T13:16:40+00:00

If the population decline is such a problem, mother's should be praised as goddesses, even single mothers. At least we're having kids. We're still not going to marry a fat guy but we are contributing to future generations. Want to increase the population? Normalize being single mothers. We're not going to breed with ugly men any time soon.

womandatory · 2021-07-25T13:02:06+00:00

I have some terrible news for you. Some women out there, like me, are 6’ tall, in fantastic physical shape and earn six figures. I’ve been chased all my life by guys who earn less, are shorter and get out of breath just chasing me. I’m in my 40s now and it’s not much different, except I have less interest in any of them than I did in my 20s.

Women have preferences, just like men. The difference is that for women, the physical stuff you guys can’t change? They’re just preferences. Women’s actual standards include such basic delights as ‘wipes ass properly after pooping’, ‘buys own mother a gift for Mother’s Day’, ‘doesn’t game for ten hours every Saturday’, ‘is capable of using a toaster’.

Men also have ‘preferences’ but they often manifest in porn and Republican fantasies. A nympho with a zero n-count, shaved, throat-fucks without ever previously knowing how, willing to do threesomes, but only FFM, of course, with a woman her husband chooses, and won’t get jealous if he fucks other women on the side because he’s so alpha, how could she resist sharing him, she’s incapable of gaining weight, earns a better than average salary and still does 100% of the domestic work, voted for his preferred candidate against her own best interests and never complains.

But a woman who expects a man to have a decent job that will support her during pregnancy, and their kids during their early years, and not die of a heart attack for being a lazy fat-ass, is the literal destruction of society as we know it.

What a time to be alive.

xQueen-Bx · 2021-07-25T11:50:20+00:00

you know black people only make up like 12% of the US and have a totally different datig culture of their own, right?

NarniaFox · 2021-07-25T13:35:55+00:00

Russian women are pretty famous for tolerating really shitty men. At least older generations. We still have low birth rates, even lower than the US.

Considering that there are childless couples who don't intend to have any kids and that couples who do have kids usually stop at 1 or 2, I'd say that people are generally unwilling to have a bunch of babies. It's expensive, talking about hardships of pregnancy, giving birth and actually parenting is normalized now and more people are scared off from/repulsed with the whole idea and some just aren't sure that the juice worth the squeeze.

People used to have around 7 kids in 1800s, who the hell wants to have 7 kids nowadays? You also can see that the decline is pretty gradual. There was a baby boom thanks to economic expansion, but it didn't last too long.

AutoModerator · 2021-07-25T11:42:23+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

superlurkage · 2021-07-25T16:32:30+00:00

Unrealistic is all in the eye of the beholder.

It’s lack of coercion and incentives that have led to the collapse of said rates, and all for the better. The fewer unwanted relationships and babies, the better. I want only wanted relationships and children to exist

midwestufohunter · 2021-07-25T19:16:36+00:00

And? Women aren’t required to have children to fix your problems.

IOportA · 2021-07-25T19:02:47+00:00

Makes you wonder if this whole mess was intended

Hy3w_mong0u5 · 2021-07-25T12:08:11+00:00

OP - You haven't even mentioned what the women making these demands have to offer in return for such a high value man investing in her.

AutoModerator · 2021-07-25T11:42:22+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AidsVictim · 2021-07-25T14:16:35+00:00

Womens inflated standards are only part of the problem. Both men and women are enculturated with completely materialistic values that prioritize wealth and personal freedom (hedonism usually) over everything else, if not outright anti family values (at the extreme end producing anti natalist and anti humanist groups i.e. "child free" people).

It's going to take a lot to rebuild an actual self sustainable society, probably not something that can happen until people become more desperate. You have to rewire a lot of modern (liberal) Western values, whether this will happen sooner or later (or the West simply disappears demographically) is up for debate.

Start gating access to higher education behind marriage and especially marriage with children. Married people with children get preferred enrollment slots, much lower tuition fees, and more opportunities in their field. Provide incentives (tax breaks/penalties) for prioritizing married people with children in private enterprise hiring and promotion. Greater housing benefits/subsidization for couple with children. Basically re organize the economic sphere so that it greatly incentivizes people to marry and have children (the marriage part occluding the current over production of single moms).

The social sphere is more difficult to address directly without too badly compromising existing Western values, but at least you can start producing propaganda and primary school programs that socialize people to value having family and children over current values (which are basically just sex and money). It's also necessary to just encourage people to socialize in general over choosing to spend their time on asocial technological activites (video games, social media, binge watching etc).

SaBahRub · 2021-07-25T14:50:03+00:00

Women not having to marry and have children to be part of society has led to the collapse of the birth rate/marriage rate

IntegrityDJones · 2021-07-28T02:59:49+00:00

I don’t see why anyone should lose sleep over a marriage and birth rate. The way you talk about women sounds like they’re undesirable in the first place, so shouldn’t you be pleased that men are no longer being tied down by the womynz?

John_Oakman · 2021-07-28T11:26:13+00:00

Pretty sure the insane rising costs of housing, education, and medical has more to do with it. For those in the social middle class but not the economic middle class children are literally luxuries they cannot afford.

Uncle_Samoyed · 2021-08-01T08:48:39+00:00

“Hypergamy” of females, the limiting gender for reproduction, leading to low birth rates… now there’s a hot take lmao

theoracleofosiris · 2021-07-26T00:21:40+00:00

It’s very amusing to see them demanding so much. Doesn’t affect you as a man if you don’t engage them.

Title	CMV: Women's unrealistic standards has led to the collapse of birth rate/marriage rate
Author	HighTMale12
Upvotes	7
Comments	379
Date	July 25, 2021 11:42 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ora2kw/cmv_womens_unrealistic_standards_has_led_to_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-womens-unrealistic-standards-has-led-to-the.794737 https://theredarchive.com/post/794737

Comments