TheRedArchive

~ archived since 2018 ~

  • Subreddits

      Popular

    • /r/askTRP
    • /r/TheRedPill
    • /r/MarriedRedPill
    • /r/MensRights
    • /r/MGTOW
    • /r/PurplePillDebate
    • /r/WhereAreAllTheGoodMen
    • Other

    • /r/AllPillDebate
    • /r/AlreadyRed
    • /r/altTRP
    • /r/AntiFeminists
    • /r/askFDS
    • /r/askMRP
    • /r/askRPC
    • /r/becomeaman
    • /r/BlackPillScience
    • /r/Chadfish
    • /r/Divorce_Men
    • /r/EverydayMisandry
    • /r/ExRedPill
    • /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
    • /r/FeminismStopsWhen
    • /r/GEOTRP
    • /r/LeftWingMaleAdvocates
    • /r/MalePsychology
    • /r/Male_Studies
    • /r/MenSupportMen
    • /r/MGTOW2
    • /r/MuslimRedPill
    • /r/newTRP
    • /r/PussyPass
    • /r/PussyPassDenied
    • /r/RedPillBooks
    • /r/RedPillParenting
    • /r/RedPillWives
    • /r/RedPillWomen
    • /r/RedPillWorkplace
    • /r/RPChristians
    • /r/seduction
    • /r/ThankTRP
    • /r/TheRedPillStories
    • /r/trpGAME
    • /r/TRPOffTopic
    • /r/TrueBlackPillMGTOW
    • /r/WhereAllTheGoodMenAre
  • Blogs

      Popular

    • Dalrock
    • Heartiste
    • Illimitable Men
    • Return of Kings
    • Rian Stone
    • The Rational Male
    • Woujo
    • Other

    • Artful Prudence
    • A Voice for Men
    • Alpha Game
    • Black Label Logic
    • Caleb Jones
    • Captain Capitalism
    • Corporate Machiavelli
    • Days of Game
    • Deep Strength
    • Dicipres
    • Donal Graeme
    • Female Misogynist
    • Free Northerner
    • Gaming My Wife
    • Good Looking Loser
    • Hawaiian Libertarian
    • In Mala Fide
    • KillToParty
    • Kill Your Inner Loser
    • Krauser PUA
    • LaidNYC
    • Married Man Sex Life
    • NO MA'AM
    • Omega Virgin Revolt
    • Pook's Mill
    • Random Xpat Rantings
    • Red Pill Theory
    • Red Pill Wifery
    • RedPillDad
    • RedPillDoctor
    • Seasons of Tumult and Discord
    • Sigma Frame
    • The Feminine Woman
    • The Futurist
    • The Masculine Principle
    • The Modern Man
    • The New Modern Man
    • The Obsidian Files
    • The Power Moves
    • The Private Man
    • The Red Pill Room
    • The Red Quest
    • The Rules Revisited
    • The Spearhead
    • Troy Francis
    • Wintery Knight
    • Young Man Red Pill
  • Books
  • Dictionary
  • @TRParchive
  • Please help TheRedArchive stay alive

Male student now sues Columbia University over classmate who carried a mattress around campus and accused him of raping her

secaa23

April 24, 2015
2331 upvotes
/r/MensRights
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3053354/Male-student-sues-Columbia-University-failing-protect-classmate-publicly-branded-rapist.html
Download the post

Want to save the post for offline use on your device? Choose one of the download options below:

PDF TXT EPUB
Share
Share Tweet Reddit Email
Post Information
Title Male student now sues Columbia University over classmate who carried a mattress around campus and accused him of raping her
Author

secaa23

Upvotes 2331
Comments 355
Date April 24, 2015 3:45 AM UTC
(11 years ago)
Subreddit Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/33oaou/male_student_now_sues_columbia_university_over/
Archive Link https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/male-student-now-sues-columbia-university-over.981970
https://theredarchive.com/post/981970
Top posts by secaa23

Whoopi Goldberg on woman's spitting and assault of Cleveland bus driver: "Women have this idea that you can hit and punch on a man .. and it's ok and he's not going to hit you back. Those days are gone".

1418 upvotes
October 15, 2012
/r/MensRights

Newly hired Boston University professor tweets “White masculinity isn’t a problem for America’s colleges, white masculinity is THE problem for America’s colleges.”

1343 upvotes
May 11, 2015
/r/MensRights

Studies show that "in households where the husband earns more money, both spouses share in the financial decision making. But in marriages where the wife brings home a bigger paycheck, the woman is twice as likely as her husband to make all the financial decisions."

970 upvotes
April 3, 2015
/r/MensRights

Feminists argue now that for transsexuals to pretend they’re women is insulting to real women - a genital form of "blackface"

456 upvotes
February 5, 2015
/r/MensRights

Feminists upset over statue of man and woman talking

235 upvotes
May 28, 2015
/r/MensRights

Forbes sacks columnist over piece saying "drunk" female students pose "gravest" threat to frats

137 upvotes
September 25, 2014
/r/MensRights

Woman who killed boyfriend changes story, claims battered woman’s defense.

130 upvotes
February 2, 2014
/r/MensRights

California woman faces torture charge after dousing her ex-husband with a pot of boiling water that burned over 60% of his body.

123 upvotes
November 30, 2011
/r/MensRights

Comments

[–]redgreenyellowblu 314 points315 points316 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

He really needs to sue Sen Gillibrand as well. She wrote a piece, published in HuffPo, that stated that Sulcowicz's 'rapist' was still walking free on campus. Sue her and the Huffington Post.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]_CubeDweller_ 56 points57 points58 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Basically he just has to prove that the school supported a hostile climate of harassment and intimidation that made him not feel safe on campus.

That shouldn't be too tough. FTA:

...the school allowed Sulkowicz to carry a mattress into classes, the library and campus-provided transportation as part of her senior thesis, that Kessler approved the 'Mattress Project' for her course credit...

Also a quote from his accuser:

'I think it's ridiculous that Paul would sue not only the school but one of my past professors for allowing me to make an art piece.

'It's ridiculous that he would read it as a `bullying strategy,' especially given his continued public attempts to smear my reputation, when really it's just an artistic expression of the personal trauma I've experienced at Columbia. If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?'

She got international attention for this "art piece". That attention was the clear goal of her actions, not some kind of self expression or healing. The school approved her thesis, thereby legitimizing her pursuit of that attention.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Art to reflect on her experience? What experience? Why didn't she make art expressing that her experience was fabricated bullshit?

[–]breakwater 22 points23 points24 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Agreed. Title 9 is pretty easy to bring suit under and includes subjective matters like "feeling unsafe" which under the circumstances should not be difficult to prove up.

Defamation is much more difficult. There is a pretty good chance he would qualify as a "limited public figure" for purposes of the suit, meaning Gillibrand would be subject to the constitutional malice standard rather than the negligence standard which is usually applied to private persons. Also, there is a question as to whether her statement might qualify for some sort of "SLAPP" (Strategic Lawsuits Against Public Participation) protections.

[–]shadowbanned6 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

He is not a public figure.

A victim of a false accusation does not become a public figure just because he was falsely accused.

She is a public figure, because she chose to out herself.

She also could have done a theoretical piece on date rape, not on her alleged acquitted rapist.

[–]breakwater 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

That is the exact situation where the "limited public figure" term applies. It seems like a bit of boot strapping, but it's true.

[–]_Brimstone 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

So, the reason he's a limited public figure is BECAUSE of the lies and slander she's committed against him, so he's ineligible to sue against the lies and slander as a private person? Yeah, that's a bit far-fetched, don't you think?

[–]elronhubbardmexico 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Ummm....no.

[–]bertreapot 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm curious if Nungesser will ever get an apology from Gillibrand. I seriously doubt it.

[–][deleted] 350 points351 points352 points 11 years ago (80 children) | Copy Link

Sue sue sue. It's about time.

[–]Big_Apple3AM 166 points167 points168 points 11 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

That's what I would do. The moment the alleged perpetrator is cleared of any wrongdoing, I'd go right to a law office and sue any and every person involved in the slander. People make up their minds the moment the media and regular citizens start portraying a person as a rapist, and they will never be able to escape the backlash of being associated with that.

[–][deleted] 74 points75 points76 points 11 years ago* (16 children) | Copy Link

The problem is its not easy to do that unless you have a bullet proof lawsuit or have rich parents who can pay an attorney out of pocket. Although there is the civil liberties group FIRE that sometimes provides representation to students who've been falsley accused of shit like this.

To be fair though I can't say she's definetly making it up. Her emails after the alleged rape definetly call her accusation into question, but it's not exactly proof she made it up. I'm just going to keep assuming that the guy is innocent until proven guilty and she's innocent until proven guilty too.

Regardless of who's right I don't think it was right for Columbia to allow this sort of spectacle and intimidation to take place against one of their own students who had been found guilty of absolutely nothing by either the school or cops. People have gotten in trouble for intimidation and harrassment by schools for FAR less than this girl and her supporters did. Their own system found the guy innocent, but then they just completely threw him under the bus once the story got media attention.

[–][deleted] 56 points57 points58 points 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

There's a lot more evidence than that, including proven collusion between her and the two other individuals who made false accusations against the man.

[–]MrWinks 22 points23 points24 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Wait wait, can you please point me to this? My ex defends this topic so much and it's frustrating as it always ends with "well who knows what happened."

[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]newprofile15 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Copy of the complaint as well. P. 11 has info on the other two "accusers."

http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/2015_0424_columbia.pdf

  1. The first, Jane Doe #1, who was also a member of ADP, filed her complaint against Paul at the end of April or early May 2013, shortly before her graduation. Jane Doe #1 erroneously and wrongfully alleged that a full year prior to her filing (i.e. during the end of her junior year, which was the end of Paul’s freshman year), Paul had grabbed her at a party and tried to kiss her. This allegation was sheer fabrication. Columbia agreed with Paul, ultimately finding him "not responsible" for the alleged "non-consensual sexual contact,"’
  2. Jane Doe #2, who had been Paul’s girlfriend for several months while they were both freshman (prior to Paul’s sexual intercourse with Emma), was also enticed to file a false report against Paul, alleging sexual misconduct. Jane Doe #2 reported that she had the impression while Paul was her boyfriend, that she could only see him if she had sex with him, and thus she felt obligated to have sex with him. She never alleged physical coercion, violence, or rape. She filed her complaint at the same time as Jane Doe #1. Columbia found a lack of "sufficient information to indicate that reasonable suspicion exists" of any alleged "intimate partner violence" and thus terminated Jane Doe # 2’s investigation without any need for a hearing.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]elronhubbardmexico 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

A lawyer wouldn't have to take it pro bono, but instead simply on a contingency fee. Columbia has deep pockets.

[–]DanjuroV 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Uh no. You need way less evidence in civil cases than in criminal cases.

[–]elronhubbardmexico 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Hint: the vast, vast majority of the time, plaintiff's lawyers take cases like this on contingency. The plaintiff doesn't have to pay a dime out of pocket to pursue such a lawsuit.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but there is hardly a strong history of accused male students winning judgments against their university. Lawyers have to actually think there's a good chance they'll win to even take a case on contingency. More specifically they have to think there's a good chance they'll win a large judgment.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

slander

This would require him to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that what happened that night wasn't rape. All she has to do is to get on a stand and tell the court her point of view of what happened that night and he loses the slander case.

[–][deleted] 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Not true at all the burden of proof in civil cases is much lower. All he would have to do is convince a judge that he has been the victim of slander. Since he hasnt been convicted of rape then he is not considered a rapist. Having said this I am obviously not a lawyer so feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

[–][deleted] -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No, there wasn't enough evidence to convict him of rape, that doesn't prove he is innocent, we assume he is innocent because we would rather let a criminal go free than to convict an innocent man. To win a slander case, he would have to prove what happened that night was 100% not rape. A very hard thing to do.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

As far as Im aware he wasnt even charged with rape never mind prosecuted for it. If what you're saying is true then why would he even sue the school since he cant actually prove his innocence?

[–]lettherebedwight 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why would that be the case? I'm not saying that it isn't the case, but what you're saying seems super illogical. Consider a different case in which, say, a man was a huge figure within the catholic church. Raised a bunch of money, makes money off speaking opportunities, so on and so forth. Now I start a campaign saying that the guy is secretly a satanist(or whatever something catholic people would hate). It goes viral, everyone calls for this guys head and job and everything. The catholic media demolishes this guy, he loses all his speaking engagements and basically becomes ruined. How is he to prove 100% that he isn't a satanist? It would seem that libel/slander are essentially impossible to prove in all cases not involving one specific incident in which a single alibi could prove something didn't happen.

[–]elronhubbardmexico 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Who's talking about a conviction? He wasn't even formally charged. In any case, your logic here is jacked up something fierce. The evidence not being sufficient to bring criminal charges in no way prevents the accused from affirmatively proving his innocence (again, by a preponderance of the evidence -- not the ridiculous 100% crap to which you refer) in a civil case as part of a slander claim. You've already acknowledged you're not a lawyer -- so why do you continue to talk out of your ass?

Edit: In fact, the school already decided it was "more likely than not" that a rape didn't occur. "Sulkowicz said the accusations were dismissed because it was found to be more likely than not that the rape didn’t happen." link

[–]questionnmark 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Isn't the standard of proof in civil cases 'balance of probabilities?'. It is at least in my country?

[–]elronhubbardmexico 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's actually called "preponderance of the evidence" in the U.S., but it's the same thing (i.e., more likely than not). This cat has no idea about which he speaks.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not a lawyer, but as far as I know to win a slander case in the US, where we have strong freedom of speech rights, you have to prove without a doubt what the person is saying is false. In this case there wasn't enough evidence to find that it was rape, and therefore there isn't enough evidence to find that it wasn't rape either.

[–]elronhubbardmexico 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"In this case there wasn't enough evidence to find that it was rape, and therefore there isn't enough evidence to find that it wasn't rape either." Wut?

[–]elronhubbardmexico 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No offense, but you have no idea what you're talking about.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

OK. Why don't you educate me then.

[–]elronhubbardmexico 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Well, for starters, there is no requirement that you prove that the allegedly defamatory statements were false "beyond a reasonable doubt". Instead, that element of a slander claim must be proven merely by a preponderance of the evidence (i.e., more likely than not). Free speech doesn't have shit to do with a slander case in which the plaintiff is a private individual. And, no, her self-serving testimony that it was rape in no way automatically defeats his slander claim. The jurors are the triers of fact, and they decide based on all the evidence whether or not the statement was false -- and whether the other elements of a slander claim (i.e., statement published to third party; the publishing to third party was at least negligent; plaintiff suffered damages as a result) have been met.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (41 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]anonlymouse 47 points48 points49 points 11 years ago (39 children) | Copy Link

Shame he's not suing the girl.

She doesn't have any money anyway, and suing the school acts as a bit of deterrent not only for Columbia but other universities as well from handling it the same way.

[–]Falcon109 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

She doesn't have any money anyway

So what? If the victim received a judgement in their favor here, it does not matter if she has any money right now. Civil court judgements will follow her forever and typically do not expire, and cannot be absolved by filing for personal bankruptcy either. People live a long time, and thus have a LONG time to be made to pay up.

Many people think that there is no point suing someone who is currently poor and does not have any money at the moment, as they feel there is nothing monetarily to recover. Suing and winning a judgement in a case like this is not just about scoring the "quick payday" however. It is about sending the message of how wrong and evil this behavior is. There might not be anything to recover immediately, but that does not matter though, because if a judgement is found against her, she now must live at or below the poverty line for the rest of her life in order to prevent her wages/assets being open to being garnished, or she can work "under the table" somewhere and commit tax fraud, and thus would also be willfully violating a court ruling to pay damages as well - both of those are recognized as serious criminal offenses.

In a case like this, I personally would sue just for the revenge factor, because if I do not get any money immediately from the person who tried to destroy my life with a bullshit claim, then that means that the guilty party is going to be forced to either get a legal job and pay up at some point, or live a life where they cannot have any assets or any legal job that pays them above poverty wages for the rest of their days. Also, if I had later found evidence that they gain an "off the books" cash job or came into money somehow and were circumventing the court ordered payment, I would immediately contact the IRS and my lawyer, and go after them for that too (and if you really wanna see some "legal vultures", watch the utter devastation the IRS can and will drop on willful tax evaders, particularly when they are doing it to attempt to evade a court order!).

Just because someone is broke now does not mean it is not worth suing them. What if she wins the lottery a few years from now? What if she gets an inheritance from a relative who passes away a few years from now, or eventually scores a good paying job somewhere? Even if it is 15 years+ down the road, you can still recover the judgement against her if and when she does have cash. Otherwise, she has to demonstrate she cannot afford to pay, meaning she has to live her entire life at the very bottom rung of the societal ladder.

When you try to destroy someone's life with lies and bullshit, people need to learn that payback can be a bitch - and can be a very long-term bitch that follows you for a very long time until you pay your debt.

[–]anonlymouse -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

So what? If the victim received a judgement in their favor here, it does not matter if she has any money right now.

It matters a great deal. No lawyer will take it on pro bono if she doesn't have money to pay out.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (27 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]elronhubbardmexico 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Nonsense. There are plenty of lawyers who would take a case like this pro bono, either out of principle, for the huge exposure, or both.

[–]Algebrace 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

There was a vid about it on \r\Lectures, the whole rape mentality thing and many universities are being sued by male students that were expelled due to terrible processes. Im pretty sure they have a 100% win rate against the university so the deterrent is slowly getting there

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not quite 100%, but it's pretty good. There have been a few that the men have lost.

[–]johnd277 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Seems like a significant number of men are losing (see dismissed cases) and a "settlement" is hardly a win. It could be hundred of thousands in legal fees just to get your name cleared and be able to move to another institution.

http://www.avoiceformalestudents.com/list-of-lawsuits-against-colleges-and-universities-alleging-due-process-violations-in-adjudicating-sexual-assault/

Please note, I'm not saying this to argue... just to get to the truth of the matter (maybe I'm looking at it wrong ?)

[–]RunawayGrain 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The thing is he can sue the school for terrible process and probably have a home run case. If he sues her, all her lawyer has to do is muddy the water, and she would get off scott free.

[–]ArbinHomes 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Artists...

[–]_Brimstone 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

NotAllArtists

[–]johnd277 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

JT, others have thrown around the idea of suing the girl for slander. Do you know how successful (or not) those lawsuits have been in the past?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I haven't seen a lot of slander suits per se in this area, but based on my understanding of slander suits such a case would be difficult to win.

[–][deleted] 254 points255 points256 points 11 years ago (40 children) | Copy Link

This makes me rage !

She's going around publicly destroying someone's life and calling it art. She should be arrested and thrown in jail

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]IcyTy 31 points32 points33 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Does that mean we can go call every woman who claimed to be raped a liar and say we have proof and that she is a terrorist and it's okay because it's for art?

[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]faber541 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yes, you would be an ass, but yes.

[–]IcyTy 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Artists minus RTIT

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Not in America. If you can prove something true here, it can't be slander or defamation. Honestly, most of us view the rest of the anglosphere's policies on this to be a corrupt remnant of the nobility you all refused to kill -- the belief that the wealthy and the powerful should be immune from the consequences of their own actions.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Midas_Warchest 19 points20 points21 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Truth is one of the defenses against slander and libel (both sub-sections of defamation). I think that he/she was just trying to say that it can be a difficult defense to prove.

It's an affirmative defense meaning the burden is on you to prove it (versus normal cases where the burden of proof is on the plaintiff).

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's utter BS that guy made up, that's why you weren't aware of it. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation (including slander and libel).

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Well you can. Defamation of Character, Slander, and Libel are all when what is being said/written isn't true.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]BlindPilotIsAmazing -8 points-7 points-6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Nobody was talking about that you idiot. Why don't you run on back to 9th grade Social Studies.

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Why do you say that? if you can prove that something is true, then it 100% does not count as defamation.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You got me interested and did some reading.

For one, Canada follows the more plaintiff friendly British model (without Quebec). This makes sense as the US tends to value freedom of expression very highly and more so than other countries.

Secondly, our (my?) laws are kinda different. As the wiki page so eloquently puts it :"The parameters of English-Canadian defamation law have been described as arbitrary, capricious, absurd and otherwise illogical."

The distinction, as I understand it, is that in the US the plaintiff must prove that the statement was false, that is to say that the burden of proof is on the plaintive. In Canada, there is no such requirement :" Probably true statements are not excluded".

However, that being said, truth is still a valid defense, but the onus of proving truth is on the defendant : "Once a claim has been made out the defendant may avail him or herself to a defense of justification (the truth).."

So in both cases, if the defendant can prove that what he said is true, it is not libel. In the US if the defendant cannot prove that it is false, then it is not libel. In Canada, this requirement is not as stringent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_defamation_law

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

^ Either a troll or just dumb as fuck. This is total bullshit.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Okay, but this is a US case. Not sure how the law in other countries is at all relevant.

[–]BombastixderTeutone 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's just a prank, bro

[–]jubbergun 22 points23 points24 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Hitler was an artist, too...

[–]burbod01 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Grand scale.

[–]riker89 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I've seen some of his paintings on exhibition. He painted houses. No creativity or inspiration or message at all. Truly awful, art without self-expression. I would have denied his application to art school too.

Now if he had put some of his personal and political frustrations into his art, it might have been better and made him better adjusted. And not a genocidal dictator.

[–]_Brimstone 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mein Kampf was shit, too. He was just a petty politician, not the diabolical mastermind we've painted him as today. The scary thing is that such a banal mind was capable of seizing power and committing such atrocities.

[–][deleted] 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Macismyname 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Relevant XKCD https://xkcd.com/29/

[–][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AutoModerator[M] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your comment was automatically removed because you linked to reddit without using the "no-participation" np. domain. Reddit links should be of the form "np.reddit.com" or "np.redd.it"

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]StopTop 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?

[–]IcarusBurning 108 points109 points110 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

It's ridiculous that he would read it as a `bullying strategy,' especially given his continued public attempts to smear my reputation, when really it's just an artistic expression of the personal trauma I've experienced at Columbia. If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?'

Oh, the irony

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]IcarusBurning 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What I find interesting is that her response seems carefully crafted to NOT accuse him again.

[–]MrWinks 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If she sued and lost then it's in her interest to avoid as much, though his project is a loophole.

[–]deadalnix 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Everything they say is true about themselves.

[–]Commander_Uhltes 481 points482 points483 points 11 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

Sulkowicz wrote: 'I think it's ridiculous that Paul would sue not only the school but one of my past professors for allowing me to make an art piece.

An art piece? A fucking art piece?

Even if her claims were true, that's the most unbelievably cunty way of defending an attack on another person.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 436 points437 points438 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Now, now, let's not be too hard on Emma. She's just an artist defending artistic expression. So given her devotion to art, I'm positive Ms. Sulkowicz will have absolutely no objection to my new performance art piece: "Emma Sulkowicz Is a Convicted Pedophile and Child Murderer. Her Last Victim Was Only Six Years Old." It will include "crime scene photos" and a copy of her "rap sheet" to be billboarded all over campus.

I'm sure critics will say "Hey! That's an outright lie. Absolutely none of that is true. You're just making stuff up about her." And to those critics, I will merely point to Emma's own words defending slander under the guise of performance art and reply "Hey, she's cool with it."

[–]willtron_ 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

We need Gilbert Gottfried - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWbq5GHXPhA&t=30s

Why did we pick Emma Sulkowicz who raped and killed a girl in 2012? Should we even waste 2 seconds on Emma Sulkowicz who raped and killed a girl in 2012? Well first of all, it's not true that Emma Sulkowicz raped and killed a girl in 2012. So if you have any proof that Emma Sulkowicz raped and killed a girl in 2012 stop gossiping and go right to the police with it!

[–]snarkymcthrowaway 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Scrolled down to see if someone posted this exact clip. Upvote for you.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]cra1 41 points42 points43 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Anyone who questions the factual basis of PeterPrinciple's art project is Creating A Chilling Climate That Makes It Harder For Other Victims To Come Forward.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]dinklebob 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Never before has someone wooshed this hard.

[–]ThePedanticCynic 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's this bad.

[–]IlleFacitFinem 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Bahahaha

[–]BIGJFRIEDLI 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not only does this get me pissed off, but the thing that send me over the top is she got fucking CLASS CREDITS for defaming another student! What?!

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Please do this if you're any good at photo shop. I'll donate $20 to the fund.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

A person probably wouldn't actually want to do such a thing. If they did, they might find themselves looking at a libel/slander lawsuit, an item towards which Ms. Sulkowicz currently finds herself gazing.

False accusations are also illegal (especially if you're not a woman).

[–]superq7 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

IT'S ART SHITLORD!!!

[+]LiDog -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Her art piece, whether you think it is art or not, does not include this guy's name in any way. She does not write his name anywhere on her mattress or say his name. Her art piece is just her carrying a mattress. Your example is obviously slander whereas hers is obviously not because it literally does not include someone's name to be slandered.

[–]Peter_Principle_ 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

Yet, we all know to whom she is referring as she hauls around her twin-size rape flag. Gee, are we all psychics like Ms. Cleo? We must be! After all, Ms. Sulkowiczs' accusations are completely anonymous, and in no way refer to Paul Nungesser, the guy she accused of raping her.

But you're right, I should definitely remove her name so as to give her equal anonymity. I'll retitle my art piece "____ ________ Is a Convicted Pedophile and Child Murderer. Her Last Victim Was Only Six Years Old.". In the blank spot viewers will find a picture of some other woman with a blurred out face lugging around a futon. There! Now no one knows she's talking about Mr. Nungesser, and no one knows I'm talking about Ms. Sulkowicz.

But wait, what's this?

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/columbia-student-accused-rape-sues-university

The university has appeared to try to stay above the fray in the very public aftermath of the case, but Nungesser’s suit implicates them by saying they “even provided financial endorsement to [Sulkowicz’s actions] by paying a portion of the clean-up fee at a [Columbia] campus rally in which Emma publicly declared that Paul is her rapist.”

Maybe I'm being a bit too hasty in removing her name from my informative posters.

[–]Spyder_J 32 points33 points34 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I think people like this don't even realize they're lying after awhile. In fact, I think they may lose the ability to recognize that pretty early in the "process." And once all these friendly supporters start bolstering them and kissing their asses and making them "special," forget about it.

[–]JackBadass -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I think people like this don't even realize they're lying after awhile.

That's very true. I'm an expert level liar myself. It's a skill I've actively honed over the past several decades. The first step of any good lie is to convince yourself it's the truth, yet at the same time you need to prevent yourself in the long run from actually forgetting that it's a lie, which is very difficult. Sounds confusing and contradictory, I know, but it's the very foundation of a solid, air-tight lie.

[–]sexyjeremypharoahwiz 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

How do we know this isn't a lie?

[–]chocoboat 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

"No no it's ok, this lawsuit is just an art piece of my own."

[–]Shinhan 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

An art piece? A fucking art piece?

Even if her claims were true,

By claiming its only an art piece she's basically admitting that there was no rape.

[–]Broken_Castle 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not at all. You can make an art piece about your past experiences, rape included.

Note: I'm not claiming her claims are true, just that it being an art piece does not mean its based on fiction.

[–]LiDog -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Your logic is so faulty I don't even know where to begin. If you read the article you would know that she said she has a right to express herself artistically because it helps the process of HEALING. You know healing? The kind she needed after her sexual assault. The fact that it is an art piece has no implication on whether or not it actually happened.

Take issue where you will, but at least make sense and read the article.

[–]Keiichi81 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It's the latest 3edgy5me college re-branding of the "It was all just a joke, guys" defense.

[–]KrisK_lvin 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

'It's ridiculous that he would read it as a `bullying strategy,' especially given his continued public attempts to smear my reputation, when really it's just an artistic expression of the personal trauma I've experienced at Columbia. If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?'

Anyone who can pack that much high grade bullshit into that small a space is an artist of some description ...

[–]Jiayizheng 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I believe the term should be "spin artist"

[–]RockFourFour 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Or 'psychotic bitch who should have been expelled and sued back to the stone age'

[–]jewboyfresh 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I mean if he really did rape her and no one did anything about it and she carried the mattress around then yea poor girl needs justice, shame the fuck out of him

But the fact that everything is so fishy and iffy throughout this whole fiasco makes me think she actually wasn't raped and is...well....just a bitch

[–]OIL_COMPANY_SHILL 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well except that shaming isn't real justice, it's mob justice. If he raped her he should go to court and the evidence will show if he did or didn't. He has rights even if he did do it.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It could have been a legitimate art piece if she just said it was to raise awareness for victims in general. Accusing and shaming an individual, who is innocent, isn't acceptable and is probably also legally actionable. Hopefully he wins his case.

[+][deleted] -11 points-10 points-9 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm almost certain Paul is innocent, however, as a libertarian, I would be upset if this lawsuit got anywhere. I'm pretty sure the first amendment allows Emma to call what happened to her as rape and him a rapist. She can also express those views through art. Is that slander? Maybe, Paul can sue her for saying it and he would have to prove in court that he isn't a rapist (we know at this point he is more likely than not a rapist, but not definitely so)

[–]PantsJihad 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Also a libertarian, and I disagree very much with you. Can you not see the injury to his reputation this has inflicted upon him? How about having to suffer through such a hostile environment to complete his education?

Everything she has done here flies in the face of the NAP.

[+][deleted] -10 points-9 points-8 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Can you not see the injury to his reputation this has inflicted upon him?

Sure, and yet there is a small possibility that what she says is true. As long as that possibility exists, I'm OK with her calling him a rapist (more than OK, I'd fight for her right to call him a rapist). Conversely, the accused UVA fraternity should start from the top and go to the bottom suing everyone involved with slandering them: Jackie, Sabrina Erdely, Rolling Stone, the University . Those guys are clearly, without a doubt innocent and the people who slandered them deserve to suffer the consequences of their actions.

[–]AngryGreenTeddyBear 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's nonsensical. The whole point of defamation lawsuits is to put the onus on the defaming party to prove their allegations. If this girl can prove that she was raped, then the suit will fail. If she can't, the guy will get rightfully-deserved damages. It's incredibly harsh to make defamation victims just suffer endlessly while the truth of the defamation just floats in a gray area.

[–]Armiel 29 points30 points31 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sulkowicz wrote: It's ridiculous that he would read it as a `bullying strategy,' especially given his continued public attempts to smear my reputation, when really it's just an artistic expression of the personal trauma I've experienced at Columbia. If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?

What do you mean my actions have consequences!? I should be allowed to publicly defame someone without any repercussions!

[–]Vance87 58 points59 points60 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

She also attended President Barack Obama's State of the Union address in January at the invitation of Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand, D-N.Y.

Ugh.

[–][deleted] 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Right?

[–]atero 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He earned himself plenty of feminist votes for doing basically nothing, smart guy.

[–]SlashSero 524 points525 points526 points 11 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

Now it's just a matter of time before the feminist backlash. How dare he defend his own rights against pure slander and fake charges?

[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (24 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]bsutansalt 141 points142 points143 points 11 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

This link was also posted on /r/TwoXChromosomes earlier today to some very reasonable comments

Oh, well that's refreshing at least. About time they got their head out of their collective asses.

The mods out there removed it without offering any explanation why.

:smh: Never mind.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 35 points36 points37 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

It always seems like there's a civil war on that sub between the crazy tumblr style feminists and the ones who just want equal rights (and equal responsibility under the law). A lot of women resent how modern feminists want to treat them like children who can't be held responsible for their actions.

[–]StrikingEarth 31 points32 points33 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I'm glad someone brought this up. /r/mensrights like to talk about feminists like they're a bunch of overweight nazis with green hair. Unfortunately, those are the only feminists we hear from thanks to tumblr.

I've met many feminists in college, and most of them are very nice people with legitimate concerns. It's a damn shame to see that group represented by a bunch of insane land whales.

[–]electricalnoise -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's my experience irl as well. It's just that the most extreme specimens tend to be way more vocal than the decent ones.

[–]kaninkanon 75 points76 points77 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

When you make a subreddit to exclude men's opinions only to find out that most women don't agree with your bullshit either

[–]jwyche008 24 points25 points26 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Isn't it hilarious though? It's almost as if the raving moron admins who run this site are alone in their ridiculous ideology.

[–]SilencingNarrative 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

can't upvote your observation enough

[–]anonlymouse 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

That's because it's a default. The majority of people period are pretty reasonable.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Period?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Nice to see you here, friend. Did you ever take Zyzzbolone or just name it?

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You know what they say about bad apples

[–]jewdai -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

NO ONE DISSES TROLLX IT. Seriously, they are probably amongst our biggest allies and thrive on the thought of gender equality REGARDLESS of gender.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In what way?

[–]MrWinks 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Holy shit that thread was amazing. I want to sit in it and hear more from these commenters. That reasonable attitude is one not under fire. I get too scared to speak up, and if I do I feel emotionally attached.

[–]higherprimate718 74 points75 points76 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

is it even backlash if they already accused you of rape?

[–]Amunium 34 points35 points36 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Relash then?

[–]xsnyder 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Whiplash

[–]hellsing73 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Eyelash?

[–]Balmarog 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Rapelash?

[–]opalextra 31 points32 points33 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Now it's just a mattres of time

Sorry couldnt resist

[–]5iveby5ive 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good. Let them. It just shows how ridiculous they are. This guy is doing the right thing. Fight fire with fire. There's nothing worse than a woman using her feminism/vagina as a bullying / harassment tool. Pay up Columbia!

[–]pbplyr38 21 points22 points23 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

SO many rapists go uncharged, that it's totally justified to falsely accuse innocent men of rape.

/s

[–]Involution88 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

SO many rapists go uncharged, that it's totally justified to falsely accuse innocent men of rape.

They actually believe it. They are all for the "symbolic victory" against an oppressive system of patriarchy. Also known as scapegoating and sacrificial lambs.

http://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2015-03-25-bob-hewitt-rape-conviction-a-symbolic-victory-for-many-silenced-women/#.VTpxlyGqpBc

But. Tennis coach uses the word "love" a lot. Like 8 times in one letter!!!!

Was in the UK broadcasting commentary on Wimbledon, when he allegedly raped a teen IN SOUTH AFRICA. Must be a murder mystery or something!

His wife defended him! Must be internalised misogeny!

Inappropriate touching. I got horny when my orthodontists huge pendulous breasts were all over me. Was I raped? Male privilege is not being raped when you get horny at awkward times.

Some people call things "brainwashing", some people call things "lovebombing", some people call things "support".

I want to /s /exasperation. I don't know how to take feminists seriously any more.

[–]ThePedanticCynic 22 points23 points24 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Feminists actually believe this. There have been campus-wide conspiracies to do exactly this, actually.

[–]StrikingEarth 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's so stupid I actually believe the feminists are capable of it.

[–]newprofile15 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Rapists obviously do go uncharged (as do all criminals) but the percentages they put out there are absolutely absurd... for example, this incredibly false graphic which has been widely circulated(http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/wp/2014/12/09/the-truth-about-a-viral-graphic-on-rape-statistics/).

[–]deadalnix 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is about raising awareness on the problematic of oppression ! You can't deny that !

[–][deleted] 11 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AutoModerator[M] -11 points-10 points-9 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Your comment was automatically removed because you linked to reddit without using the "no-participation" np. domain. Reddit links should be of the form "np.reddit.com" or "np.redd.it"

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[–]jwyche008 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I love how this isn't even a rule but it still gets enforced like it is one.

[–]IlleFacitFinem 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Brigading is banned so it stands to reason that linking to other subs using NP is a good way for submods to avoid accusations of brigading.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–][deleted] 23 points24 points25 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The judge threw it out. There is no basis in law for calling him a rapist. Yet fembots will continue to do so.

Sick fucks.

[–]secaa23[S] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This has now become a constant state of political and cultural agitation and warfare by liberals and feminists against all men in general.

[–]VicariousExp 37 points38 points39 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Art does not protect slander.

[–]burbod01 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Depends. Wasn't that the crux of Hustler v. Falwell? Obvious difference circumstances.

[–]LaGrrrande 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

I think that the main differentiating factor was that it wasn't an obvious, unbelievable parody.

[–]burbod01 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Agreed, and that Jerry Falwell was a public figure outspoken about his beliefs re sexuality, but my point is that satire is a subset of art, so it really depends on the circumstances.

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

There are two distinctions to be made.

One Falwell is a public figure, so the standards for defamation are higher. For a private figure (which he obviously was), you need to prove falshood, that it caused harm (no intent) and that no reasonable attempt to find the truth was made (research). In this case, if it was false, it obviously caused harm (again whether she intended it to is irrelevant). The third criteria doesn't really apply.

For a public figure, you have to prove the above three plus intent to cause harm, that is to say that it was made with malicious intent with the express goal of harming the other person. Alternatively, you can prove reckless disregard for the truth, so not that you didn't try and find the truth, but that you actively avoided trying to find the truth.

The Falwel case is different in that it is satire. the article was so out there, that no reasonable person could think it true. Again, that doesn't apply to to this case.

The fact that something is art (with the exception of satire) is completely irrelevant.

[–]burbod01 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I can't tell if this is directed at me, because it sounds like you are agreeing with me: "with the exception of satire." (That's the only point I was trying to make, nothing more.)

Honestly, fuck me for trying to refine a blanket false statement, right?

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Completely agreeing and expanding with a longer explanation!

[–]burbod01 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Sweet.

[–]Stephen1985 110 points111 points112 points 11 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

Sounds like someone got a cool idea for an art project and fabricated a lie to give it meaning.

[–]JayFTL 42 points43 points44 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

It's seriously beginning to feel that way.

[–]bsutansalt 73 points74 points75 points 11 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

Nope. He has the texts. The short version as I understand it is they were fuck buddies, they agreed not to hook up anymore, but from reading the texts she had feelings for him, he didn't feel the same way, and as a result she she lost her shit and started making the false accusations.

edit: source...

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/03/columbia-student-i-didn-t-rape-her.html

Archive link in case it gets removed some day: https://archive.is/jmmmy

This story, partly backed by materials made public here for the first time and corroborated by a former Columbia graduate student who played a secondary role in the disciplinary process, is dramatically at odds with the prevailing media narrative. On one point, however, Nungesser and his supporters agree with the pro-Sulkowicz camp: A grave injustice has been done.

The chat logs from facebook are right there for all to see.

By the end of his first year in college in spring 2012, says Nungesser, “we were beginning to develop a very close friendship; it was an intimate friendship where we would hug each other and so on, but always platonic.” That platonic friendship included several sleepovers in Sulkowicz’s room—one of which, he says, eventually turned into a make-out session and ended in sex.

“The next morning, we had a talk about it and we both felt that it was not really a good idea,” says Nungesser, explaining that they didn’t want to risk their friendship. Four or five weeks later, he says, there was another sleepover that led to another sexual encounter, another talk, and another decision to move on—soon after which the two parted ways for the summer break.

Translation: friends with benefits.

As the party was wrapping up, they started talking in the courtyard, then began to hug and kiss and ended up going back to Sulkowicz’s dorm room—at her invitation, according to Nungesser. He says he had consumed two mixed drinks and was “buzzed, but not intoxicated or anything.” (Sulkowicz has previously described him as “drunk” during the incident.)

While Sulkowicz has always said that they started out having consensual sex, her account diverges drastically from Nungesser’s at this point. According to Sulkowicz, he suddenly and brutally assaulted her, then picked up his clothes and left without a word, leaving her stunned and shattered on the bed. According to Nungesser, they briefly engaged in anal intercourse by mutual agreement, then went on to engage in other sexual activity and fell asleep. He says that he woke up early in the morning and went back to his own room while Sulkowicz was still sleeping.

And now we get into the he said/she said. Also notice the complete lack of feminist screeching about drunk sex is not consent. He was buzzed/drunk, she was not, and the sexual encounter she's claiming was rape was actually her raping him if you follow feminist logic on this matter.

On Aug. 29, two days after the alleged rape, Nungesser messaged Sulkowicz on Facebook to say, “Small shindig in our room tonight—bring cool freshmen.” Her response:

lol yusss

Also I feel like we need to have some real time where we can talk about life and thingz

because we still haven’t really had a paul-emma chill sesh since summmmerrrr

On Sept. 9, on a morning before an ADP meeting, it was Sulkowicz who initiated the Facebook contact, asking Nungesser if he wanted to “hang out a little bit” before or after the meeting and concluding with:

whatever I want to see yoyououoyou

respond—I’ll get the message on ma phone

On Oct. 3, Sulkowicz’s birthday, Nungesser sent her an effusive greeting; she responded the next morning with, “I love you Paul. Where are you?!?!?!?!” Nungesser claims that these exchanges represent only a small portion of their friendly communications, which also included numerous text messages.

She hardly sounds like the victim portrayed in the media. Roughly 5 weeks after her alleged rape and she's texting him "I love you". You do the math.

[–]IlleFacitFinem 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I love this person but he won't reciprocate. I know how to win his love, accuse him of rape and destroy his life! Brilliant.

[–]FrigOffCyrus 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

[–]JayFTL 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Well if it wasn't her plan before, it sure as shit seems to have been a fucking fringe benefit.

[–]MrWinks 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Really? Can you still find where he says or shows that? My ex loves to bring up this fucking case and I could use this.

[–]bsutansalt 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

See my edit above.

[–]GatorDontPlayThatSht -4 points-3 points-2 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

Source?

[–]bsutansalt 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

See my edit above.

[+]GatorDontPlayThatSht -11 points-10 points-9 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That doesnt say what you said before. You said she was pursuing him and this text shows its the opposite.

[–]SyllaRabbit 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Someone at my friends' art school in Edinburgh dragged mattress around, napping in various places for a day for a project. Not as dickish, still a shitty excuse for art though. Who knew we sleep on such a diverse medium...

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That was my first reaction too.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]BlindPilotIsAmazing -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is a good idea for an art project

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Twongwukim 13 points14 points15 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Mattress Hauling 101. Next semester registration is open. 3 credit course.

[–]SpawnQuixote 11 points12 points13 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's a pre-requisite for Attention Whoring 201.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Is that for the Masters in Victimhood degree?

[–]FrigOffCyrus 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

With a focus on ruining men's lives.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

4 hours, it has a lab

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mostly it seems to be about how to make your mattress as light as possible.

[–]MrWinks -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There is another college that does this. I was invited to attend by my ex. Needless to say i'm trying really hard to contain my rage.

[–][deleted] 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago* (4 children) | Copy Link

/r/DelusionalArtists was defending literally a 100% yellow square on a wall

Most of them said "art has many forms", "It reflects artist's insert idiocy", and "just because YOU think its shitty art, doesn't mean it's not art"

A comment stated: "I could just do that" and it was downvoted to hell, & a single reply stated "but you didn't". As if it is a good response to the earlier remark.

[–]MrWinks 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Well I used to think this way but it's true so much as it fulfills a purpose. The purpose of art is to provoke thought or emotions. If it does so then it's successful. It depends on the location, time, date range, and social climate of the square for it to matter. It gets complex, but it's possible. In this case idk but it does sound laughably ridiculous if it's just a yellow square.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hate that bullshit, there are indeed different forms of art but it also requires some sort of deeper thinking that can be translated to other people. If all you did was make ONE solid colored canvas piece that's bullshit. I've seen canvases that was just a gradient, but it was good because the painter put work and effort into creating a gradient of two colors that included finer detail in between, something anyone can look at and appreciate.

[–]BlindPilotIsAmazing -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Tell me professor, what is good art?

[–]Frobenioid 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's been getting rave reviews.

Art critic Jerry Saltz included Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight) in his list of the best art shows of 2014, calling it "pure radical vulnerability."

Yeah. Seriously.

[–]autowikibot 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight):


Mattress Performance (Carry That Weight) is a work of endurance performance art by Emma Sulkowicz, an American fourth-year visual arts major at Columbia University in New York City who has alleged that she was raped in her dorm room by another student. Initiated in September 2014 for her senior thesis, the work involves Sulkowicz carrying a mattress wherever she goes on campus, to protest the university's response to the allegation. Sulkowicz says she will continue carrying the mattress until the student she accuses is expelled or otherwise leaves the university.

Image i


Interesting: Carry That Weight | Endurance art | Performance art | Cathy Young

Parent commenter can toggle NSFW or delete. Will also delete on comment score of -1 or less. | FAQs | Mods | Magic Words

[–]elronhubbardmexico 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Here's an unintentionally hilarious interview with the liar.

[–][deleted] 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's like she is more concerned with her art project significantly more than getting raped.

[–]elronhubbardmexico 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yep, pretty obvious from just that interview that she wasn't raped. Yet the usual suspects are there to lap up every word she says as the gospel.

[–][deleted] 39 points40 points41 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Be funny if she got a failing grade for her thesis.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Lord_Varys 10 points11 points12 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It will benefit women, feminism, and rape victims if we get serious about reforming false rape charge law. Most women get slaps on the wrist, but this needs to be a serious crime. That will stop tumblarinas from crying rape when a man looks at her funny, and therefore give more weight to a woman's claim when she is actually raped.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This. Rape needs to be taken seriously. It does unfortunately happen and those fuckers need to be brought to justice. However, now girls these days use it as a weapon, just to destroy some innocent guy's life...to "teach them a lesson." It's sickening. Do a google search and look at all the falsely accused people, some of which were even killed for it. I agree with you that it needs to be reformed, big time.

[–]agorahooawayyfo 9 points10 points11 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm a Columbia student and Paul was actually my group leader during my freshman orientation program. Extremely laid back, mild mannered but witty guy. I'm not ashamed to say that I initially had my doubts about him when the story first broke. After all, no sane person would have predicted this bizarre scenario as the most likely outcome. Of course I maintained his right to due process and protection, but I was always ready to concede that he very well could be a rapist. However, as the evidence has slowly come to light, my initial instincts have been proven more and more correct. Paul was victimized in this instance specifically because of his chill personality: he didn't understand the depth of Emma's feelings or the lengths to which she was willing to go to spite him. He assumed that she would act like the intelligent young woman she purported to be when she realized that he had no reciprocating plans for a serious relationship with her. Really a tragic case, especially as one can see the development of Emma's feelings and how she has absolutely no clue how to deal with them.

I attached a link to the court documents, its absolutely shocking when you look at these messages and then watch some of the videos of Emma at the height of her popularity. How does she have the AUDACITY?

https://kcjohnson.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/nungesser-complaint.pdf

[–]matrix2002 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I just read the whole article. This girl just made up a bunch of shit about him, probably after spending so time on tumblr, then went and found one of his exes to make up more shit about him, so it makes her story look better. THEN found a girl who didn't like him and got HER to make up a story about him trying to kiss her.

What fucking piece of shit. I hope she never gets a job. The only one she is qualified for is "art student turned femi-nazi that uses fake trauma into publicity to get attention."

[–]DavidByron2 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She's very qualified for the raft of feminist-only jobs in the US government or as an HR manager in business or in various institutions. basically jobs for the girls.

[–]elronhubbardmexico 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I've seen this lunatic interviewed, and it was painfully obvious she was lying about the whole thing.

[–]DailMail_Bot 53 points54 points55 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Non-Daily Mail Mirror

Code on github.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]AntheusBax 27 points28 points29 points 11 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

There's a reason it's commonly known as the Daily Fail here in the UK - it's a shitty, vile, hateful rag so yeah I'd prefer not giving them views either.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Which newspapers should we be reading then?

[–]comehitherhitler 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The short answer is "all of them". The long answer is "none of them".

The BBC is no pillar of integrity. In any case I'm saying the question of "who's more reliable" is moot. There will be a large amount of spin put into even the smallest piece of journalism an outlet puts out.

You should trust journalists to deliver accurate quotes from the people making the news. That's about it. Most other stuff will be heavily spun, outright lies, or poorly investigated nonsense. If you really want to inform your opinion without doing your own investigation you should look at outlets with many different types of bias: Fox News, BBC, NPR, AP, etc.

They're inherently limited by the impossibility of reporting perfectly on every issue. From there you just need to realize that bias dictates where they choose to spend their efforts. They're also human beings not robots. Even given perfect information there's no reason to believe they won't output nonsense, half-truths, or lies to help themselves or further their causes.

Some of my past comments on the issue of journalistic integrity and bias.

[–]AntheusBax 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Whichever you personally find appeals to you most in terms of tone and content I guess - it's a personal preference thing... that's why there's so many of them and not just one national paper called "The News" :)

Myself, I don't buy any paper as I prefer to get my news online instead (reddit, local-based forums, bbc news website etc), but if I were to look to buy one then the Daily Fail and the Sun (I'm a football fan) would be at the very bottom of the list.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Seems a bit backwards to say "read what you want" whilst making out the "Daily Fail" to be something nobody should be reading.

[–]anonlymouse -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Whichever you personally find appeals to you most in terms of tone and content

That would be the daily mail. It actually reports on issues every other outlet is too cowardly to cover.

[–]AnonJT 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The independent, the times, the guardian (quite poor as of late when it comes to pandering to misandrists) are my go to places

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Do you read them because they're more in line with your political views?

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Eh, it's no worse than the rest of your papers. It's just conservative -- and that, plus the demographics of reddit, is the real reason it's looked down upon here.

The Guardian is an absolute piece of shit, too, but none of you like to point that out. Mostly because it agrees with you.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]anonlymouse 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

People in MR don't realise that their dislike of the DM is because it has been slandered just like the MRM has been slandered causing others to dislike it.

[–]EaterofWorlds13 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

I'm so confused... they find out that she falsely accused him of rape AND there was conspiracy with two other individual to get him arrested for a crime that never happened and there are no repercussions for this?? No wonder this stuff just keeps happening over and over. Until the false accuser and her co-conspirators are punished, there is no deterrent to this kind of behavior. This woman's name and her co-conspirator's names should be revealed - there was no rape.

Also, it's good he's suing the school, but why isn't this guy suing the bitch who accused him of rape in the first place?????

[–]Swiggy 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

... they find out that she falsely accused him of rape AND there was conspiracy with two other individual to get him arrested for a crime that never happened and there are no repercussions for this??

They did not find that he had been falsely accused. He was not found guilty of the accusations but that is not the same as proving that the accusations were false.

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Although there have been cases where the cops did prosecute and convict the woman of lying and the college still punished the man.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Swiggy 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes, but being innocent doesn't automatically mean they can prove the charges are false.

[–]qdobe 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So it went from "I will carry this mattress until he is gone from the University" to "this is art, you can't take emotions away from art, this is my thesis project"

[–]medgarmedgar 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

I haven't heard anything else about this case... why was the case rejected? Did she concede that he in fact did not rape her?

[–]choihanam 17 points18 points19 points 11 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

She contradicted herself multiple times I think, and there was also a long trail of friendly text messages between the two for months following the alleged rape, including her inviting him over that night. So basically, not one iota of evidence against him and lots on his side.

[–]MrWinks 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Wow. Do you think you have any links to those details? I have an ex I wanna show this to who defended the fuck out of this case blindly.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/02/03/columbia-student-i-didn-t-rape-her.html

[–]MrWinks 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for that.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

You're right that there's no concrete evidence against him and thus he shouldn't be convicted, but this

there was also a long trail of friendly text messages between the two for months following the alleged rape, including her inviting him over that night.

should not count as evidence at all, for either side. People are raped by those they trust sometimes. If she said she was afraid of him it might be evidence, but all she said was that she was raped.

[–]choihanam 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Babble. All relevant conversations are pertinent to the case.

[–][deleted] -3 points-2 points-1 points 11 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

All of those could be true and she could still have been raped.

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

But there is no decisive proof that she was. We could play this "maybe yes, maybe no" game all day, but the fact is that the case didn't go anywhere but she is doing everything in her power to get this guy crucified by the court of public opinion.

[–][deleted] -5 points-4 points-3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

And she has that right. You think she is committing slander? Well, she's innocent until proven guilty.

[–]choihanam 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Your point being...?

[–][deleted] -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That she's innocent until proven guilty.

[–]choihanam 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Which is not only totally non-sequitur, it doesn't make any sense as she hasn't been charged with a crime.

[–]Magicman116 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If I remember correctly, she dropped the case because she didn't want to revisit the rape publicly or some stupid bullshit. So yeah, doesn't want a spectacle, then does this mattress garbage.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Bearded_Deity 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I hope he wins. And then sues her personally.

Whats even more shocking, is that this chick is STILL claiming rape, even after all their facebook and text messages came out where she even wanted to hook up with him again after.

This is the story of a girl, who did something, she probably regretted, and instead of owning up to her own actions, she defames, and attacks a mans character. What a fucking little child. Her parents should be ashamed, her entire family should be.

[–]therealmasculistman -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It stories like this that make me wish they repealed the 19th Amendment and just return voting to a male-only right. This is getting rediculous.

[–]rottingchrist 14 points15 points16 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeshh... Paul-Emma lawsuit this summmmmeeerrr.

[–]Ovuus 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

lol yussss

[–][deleted] 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She is completely out of touch. She now sticks to the art angle, as though it's enough to take her at face value as an artist. Lady, we are so far past 'term project' it's not even funny.

[–]CaptainJaXon 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm confused, was she raped (or at least claiming) or did she just make an art piece but use some guy as an example?

[–]soulslawter 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

she claimed the art was about her rape, and tried to get some dude locked up for it. No she is backpedaling with "it's just an art exhibit"

[–]CaptainJaXon 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Okay, so at first it was the first but now she's saying it was the second. Wow.

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In fairness she did not try and get him locked up, just expelled.

[–]Vidkun_Quisling 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He's suing for slander. His actual mattress is bigger.

[–]matrix2002 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

What the fuck is wrong with women in college?

They are fucking fascists.

This is what happens when people who were a minority for so long (women at universities) and had a perceived lower status than men, then become the majority and seem to want to lash out at their "long time oppressors".

It's just fucking weird and sad.

Freaking pathetic.

TLDR; princess girls going to college only want to apply rules and laws when it favors them.

[–]secaa23[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Welcome to the true objective of Feminism. To destroy men.

[–]JackBadass 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He should start hauling around two mattresses and tell people it represents her and her lies.

[–]sdz_jp 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I still think it’s possible that she chose this (rape allegation and mattress haul) art project due to a lack of any better idea for her senior art project. Think about it: it's so simple to do, edgy, contemporary (chosen at the height of rape hysteria) and filled with pathos that an A+ was guaranteed. In her naivety, she didn't comprehend the enormity of the consequences until it was too late. Now, owning up to her actions seems so traumatic that a) she convinced herself that her fabrication was reality or b) she will eventually crack under the sheer pressure of maintaining her lie.

[–]DavidByron2 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I would guess that she was in trouble for something like not having a project by a deadline, and then she thought, oh wait I'll say I was raped and them I'm out of trouble! (which is true) and then that's how she got the idea I guess.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]secaa23[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

Courts however have now been seeded with liberal judges the last few decades that will be pro-feminist in nature. They will again possibly dismisses this outright to derail a civil trial with embarrassing media coverage.

[–]DavidByron2 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Liberal judges my ass, the conservative ones are even worse for female bias.

[–]homelessscootaloo 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Hope he wins every penny and hope this bitch and all other false accusers burn.

[–][deleted] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good, I hope he wins, I hope he has supportive people.

[–]goodboy 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?”

She was shown not to be raped. Heal from what- her persistent victim complex? Hurting innocent men is not going to heal that. She is a psychotic sack of shit and must be publicly shamed as a lying harpy and emotional predator!

[–]TheLoneMaverick 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good, it's about time this slew of lawsuits should remind feminists how their dangerous rape culture dogma backfires.

[–]UndeadTurning 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I hope he takes them for all they're worth!

[–]Imnotmrabut 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Would it be possible to stop calling Sulkowicz An Arts Major and just call her a Major Bunny Boiler?

[–]secaa23[S] 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This whole civil trial will expose the "War on Women" campaign by Feminists and the Democratic Party as a calculated and contrived "War on Men" instead.

[–]Imnotmrabut 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You assume there will be a trial and not a financial settlement.

Sulkowicz was not daft when she targeted a Foreign Exchange Student as the Butt of her pathology.

[–]zyguy 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Am I reading this wrong? The judge threw out the case but called the guy a "serial rapist?" Maybe I don't understand it but for some reason it sounds like the judge didn't let the case be tried because the judge believed the female student?

[–]FadetheHeat 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Columbia U, I hope you've set aside some money.

[–]semiorthodoxjew 12 points13 points14 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Hahahahahahahaha.

You think he even has the tiniest sliver of a chance of winning? I mean, I would LOVE for him to win and get paid huge damages... But I think we all know who society favours in this sort of situation. Guilty until proven innocent - feminism's wildly successful rape policy.

[–]nowaygreg 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

At first I thought you were laughing because universities like this have oodles of money

[–]DavidByron2 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

If he's saying the university sexually harassed him he might win, if he's just pleading sex discrimination he'll likely loose.

[–]Marokiii 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sulkowicz has argued her case was badly mishandled by the school disciplinary panel after she reported in 2013 she was raped in her dorm months before.

what did she expect would happen when she reports this supposed rape months after the fact with no evidence or witnesses? if you are raped then go to the cops immediately and report it, dont wait months and then go to the school disciplinary board while dragging a mattress everywhere you go.

[–]MrWinks 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So, your point is actually an issue. It has been made a talking point and people have decided it's ok to come later because people don't want to immediately come out about it. Unfortunately it is bad on those who wait too long, but that doesn't mean they should be treated as golden children who can't lie.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]nnniiiccckkk1 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yes.

But I can undestand that he doesn't want to do that. It would reopen the case and have further looks into the veracity of her claims. For defamation to be hold, he has to prove that what she said was false. As we know, this would lead to more media attention,probably not of the best kind for him.

To sue the university, he doesn't have to show that her claims are false. He only has to show that the universities reaction was a) discriminatory based on his gender and b) created a hostile learning environment. Lets be honest, its a much easier case to make.

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]has_a_bigger_dick 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why was this post removed?

[–]flavorjunction 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's ridiculous that he would read it as a `bullying strategy,' especially given his continued public attempts to smear my reputation

Man..this just irks the shit out of me. The entirety of this case was solely through her perspective until his hand had been forced to try and get in front of this train wreck.

[–]Unenjoyed 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Slander is bad, mmmK?

[–][deleted] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Good for him.

[–]RockFourFour 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Why isn't he suing her? He should be getting about 90% of every paycheck she earns for the next 60 years.

[–]flux365 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

Good for him. No one deserves to be harassed. At the time of her harassment he wasn't proven innocent or guilty. She took it upon herself to enact vigilante justice. Her rights don't trump his rights.

[–]secaa23[S] 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Feminism destroys the rights of others.

[–]flux365 -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I actually don't agree. True feminism is wanting equality for women and equality for all, and NOT at anyone else's expense. What you're describing as "feminism" isn't it.

[–]secaa23[S] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

How Feminism is saying one thing - and then doing another is.

[–]flux365 -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not really. Those people are misinformed and bad examples of what feminism truly is. Feminism is getting equal pay for women and not by taking away from a man's salary. The rising tide lifts all boats. If you think these radical so-called "feminists" are feminists then you're sadly mistaken. They're like the radical Christian conservatives who are hateful towards gays yet forget Jesus' message was one of love, inclusion, and acceptance.

[–]ThePigmanAgain 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

He should also sue the little shit who has been defaming him. And the media outlets which spread her lies.

[–]Scimitar66 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

My best to him. I'm excited to see that men across the nation are taking legal action against this blatant injustice.

[–]Scimitar66 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

'It's ridiculous that he would read it as a `bullying strategy,' especially given his continued public attempts to smear my reputation, when really it's just an artistic expression of the personal trauma I've experienced at Columbia. If artists are not allowed to make art that reflect on our experiences, then how are we to heal?'

Jesus Christ. The mental gymnastics these people are capable of is more than disturbing.

I want to see the reputations of this university, this woman, the professor, and anyone else involved dragged through the mud. They deserve to be called out on their shit for the whole world to see.

[–]Imnotmrabut 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It is ever so common amongst Sociopaths/Psychopaths!

The more that is revealed about Sulkowicz and Nungesser, the more it is clarified who has the issues and just who ticks all the "Wrong" boxes!

[–]babno 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

When someone breaks the law, the obviously correct thing to do is to pursue it in a legal route, i.e. going to the police, filing a suit, etc. Now what was the difference between these 2 stories again?

[–]OneTripleZero 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

So what was the point of the mattress? The article is a little slim on details.

[–]marswithrings 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

it was supposed to be like a performance art called "carry that weight." it was a physical manifestation and symbol of the weight she carries with her as a rape survivor, especially as one whose rapist walks freely around on campus.

well that was the premise anyway, it obviously looks like she made up the story so it apparently doesn't really mean anything. but that was the idea

[–]ThirdRook 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

And lugging that around with her is supposed to help her move on or forget? Come on. It seems like you can take anything you find these days and call it art.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The intention of the mattress-hauling wasn't supposed to make anyone move on or forget though.

[–]ThirdRook 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

She defends herself by saying something like "how can artists move on without being able to express our thoughts and feelings?" I'm about to start work right now so I don't have time to find the quote, but I can find it in the article later if you like.

[–]specterofthepast 6 points7 points8 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

She was carrying it around as a visual representation of the "rape" that she will always have to carry around with her but noone can see until she graduates or her "rapist" was expelled. But... she lied. Like every big rape scandal to come from feminists this year trying to show rape culture.

[+]ThreeTimesUp -18 points-17 points-16 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

… with her but noone can see…

There is no such word as 'noone' (unless you're attempting a possible spelling of an Old English word for lunchtime). The phrase is 'no one'.

Google it.

The Urban Dictionary contends that it is "Most commonly used by people who acquired their literary skills in online chat rooms".

A contraction that results in double vowels of the same letter changes the pronunciation of the resulting word.

[–]specterofthepast 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Call me a trendsetter then. I'm calling it. "noone" in the dictionary 5 years from now.

[–]dimmidice 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

oh noez!

[–]Blutarg 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The point is she can't draw and she has a miserable grasp of the English language (my god, the messages she sent Paul) so if she wants to be thought of as an artist, it has to be for wacky performance pieces like this.

[–]semiorthodoxjew 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Presumably where the alleged "act" was committed?

[–]bougabouga 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Fuck yeah!

[–]Unenjoyed 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Remind me what gathers on a rolling stone?

[–]srvaughan121 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

more false rape accusations and another slander lawsuit while the writer keeps her job?

[–]jpop23mn 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Depositions

[–]fckredditt 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

read both sides then look at the girl and look at the guy. it's obvious the guy is telling the truth. he says that they hook up and then always agreed that it was just a friends with benefits thing. "they" but really it was him saying so and her pretending to agree. they do it a few more times then on the last time, she even let him fuck her in the ass. that still didn't make him want her. after he fucked her in the ass, he got up and left. next few days she tries to act cool and play it off like nothing happened. then as time wore on, she became more angry and bitter at being used. that's when she said he raped her. look at how fucking ugly she is. he's a pretty handsome guy. he even has proof of the texts they shared after the alleged rape incident. it was all cordial. ever tried kissing a girl who didn't like you before? she avoids you like the fucking plague. she's not going to act all friendly and shit afterwards. this is him fucking her in the ass. if it was rape, is she still going to be all happy and talking to him? shes just mad that she let him fuck her in the ass and he didn't give a shit about her. she could've gone to the police but didn't.

[–]Ovuus 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Basically, you can't be unbuttfucked.

[–]MrWinks 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm looking for those details you're mentioning cause i know many that are stubborn about what happened. Brought you out of 0 karma, btw.

[–]spacedogg 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Cunty

[–]abadsfewf 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

THANK FUCKING GOD. Sue the school, sue the FALSE accuser, sue the fucking state.

These dumb attention whoring bitches intentionally lie about rape to ruin people's lives.

The only reason these dumb cunts keep doing this is because they face no repercussions.

[–]jwyche008 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

The feminist movement has damaged all sympathy I used to feel for rape "victims" and I can say beyond a shadow of a doubt I am much less likely to believe someone bringing forward rape allegations than ever before.

[–]secaa23[S] 3 points4 points5 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Every rape accusation is different. Credibility is based on the substance and quality of the testimony and consistency of the facts presented. These days, however, calculated, feminist hysteria is trying to turn men and masculinity into a political and societal "epithet".

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

good

[–]omegaXXIV 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

https://archive.is/EfMOQ

[–]ChaosSix 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This world...

[+]chisleu -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

He was accused of sexual assault by 3 girls. Maybe he is innocent, but it isn't just 1 girl doing it. She is just the most vocal one.

[–]Its43 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

There was collusion instigated by this girl, between her and the other two.

[–][deleted] -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

No dude. His case was thrown out. That means the bitch was lying DUH.

[–]chisleu -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

That isn't what that means. It means that she didn't have enough evidence that it wasn't consensual sex. The other claims against him were that he grabbed a girl's tit at a party, and that he got violent in some way with his old girlfriend.

I'm just saying. If three people reported instances with the same guy, it is very shady. If you knew someone that was accused of sexual assault, you might believe them, but when it is reported 3 times, from 3 different people, you have to be a fool to think there isn't ANYTHING going on. Maybe he is innocent of rape, but maybe not.

BTW, if you get charged and beat it in court, you are found not-guilt. You aren't found innocent, because it is almost impossible to know if you are really innocent.

[–][deleted] 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I was kidding

[–]chisleu 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

It's hard to tell these days yo.

[–]agorahooawayyfo 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Columbia student here, it is common knowledge that the two other complainants were friends of Emma who manufactured/embellished their complaints to support her case. I think it also made it into some of the articles. Both girls dropped their cases before receiving sentences because they were too lazy to continue going to hearings and Emma had already lost her case.

[–]ifelsedowhile -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

how did it happen that his name was publicized? who's guilty for that? don't they have some policy to protect the names of people involved in such matters?

[–]DavidByron2 5 points6 points7 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The men? Oh hell no.

[+]sugar_free_haribo -22 points-21 points-20 points 11 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

Have to say, I found her annotated account of their published Facebook conversations to be somewhat credible. Not comfortable saying that she's a proven liar. Really not sure who to believe at this point.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

The law of our land is innocent till proven guilty.

That begin said, could you link that?

[–]semiorthodoxjew 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I too would be interested in seeing this.

[–]ukreview 25 points26 points27 points 11 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

how about innocent until proven guilty? perhaps believe the innocent. just sayin.

[–]Not_An_Ambulance 7 points8 points9 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Meh... I'm an attorney. Keep in mind that the bar for conviction is a bit high. Just because there isn't evidence that something happened doesn't mean that there is evidence that something didn't either.

There is a reason its "guilty" and "not guilty", not "innocent".

[–]semiorthodoxjew 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Not sure why you're getting downvoted, you make an extremely relevant and valid point.

[–]sugar_free_haribo -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Yes in the eyes of the law, he's certainly innocent. But you're still allowed to form an opinion regarding his guilt based on available information. OJ was acquitted - do you think he's innocent?

That aside, I never said I think the guy raped her, just that it's somewhat unfounded for people here and elsewhere to act like the accusation has been discredited.

[–][deleted] 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

But he's not suing her - he's suing the university for presenting her side of the story as fact (at least according to the article)

You're not allowed to present it as fact if he hasn't been convicted.

[–]ezetemp 4 points5 points6 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

In these kinds of cases, it's simply a matter of motive and cost-benefit analysis. Accusing someone, falsely or not, carries close to no risk, it will get you social status within some circles, it can be used to get fame and now you can even get course credits for it.

Rape or murder? A bit more likely to carry penalties, it's certainly not going to get you status, and you're not going to see a rapist carrying around a mattress for class.

Ultimately, the fact that there are so many incentives are what discredits the accusation. To support the accusation in combination with the blatant exploitation of it there needs to be significant proof, and the fact that it's been thrown out even from a kangaroo university process means that there's nothing at all.

So for the sake of future victims I really hope this is dealt with, and severely at that, because the current accusation celebrity culture throws a shadow of doubt over any accusation - has something really happened or are they just looking for attention and a badge of 'coolness' in their feminist group?

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[–]Harmster -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't we just all get along...

[–]9ARA2 -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

MRW I saw this - Go Paul Go!

[–]gsettle -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Excellent!!! Sue 'em till they puke! ALL universities need to be sued. 1) For this kind of stupid sexist crap 2) For robbing parents of life savings 3) For placing students in financial choke-holds with student loans.

[–]therealmasculistman 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Sue the Executive Branch of the United States government too such as Barack Obama and/or Joesph Biden. Either one or both are responsible for telling the Department Of Education to come up with that "Dear Colleague" directive.

[–]JoeBidenBot 0 points1 point2 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Interesting.

[+][deleted] -7 points-6 points-5 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

This guy has been accused of sexual assault by 3 girls now. If there isn't enough evidence he shouldn't go to jail, but it does make me wonder.

[–]DavidByron2 8 points9 points10 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah the feminists figured out that getting some other bigot to back your story is the best way to inflict violence. But this pair of geniuses fucked it up anyway because of evidence of collusion.

[+]misandrysandy -66 points-65 points-64 points 11 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

I highly doubt he didn't rape her. Most accusations of rape are true.

Really, it's possible that he raped someone else, even if he was somehow not guilty of raping this woman. Most men have raped someone before

[–]overtorqued_nut 18 points19 points20 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Most trolls have trolled before.

[+]misandrysandy -9 points-8 points-7 points 11 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm not a troll, so fuck off!

[–]overtorqued_nut 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Ok, well you have some very warped views of male sexuality then. I checked some of your other posts, and I think maybe being a paid dominatrix has given you some experiences that are not in line with reality. Saying that all men are inherently rapists is a big red flag, and I genuinely feel bad for you that you feel that way. I hope you can someday have a relationship where you feel safe and comfortable with a man (assuming you like men), so that you can stop treating men like they are just rapists who didn't get caught.

[–]misandrysandy -2 points-1 points0 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Oh, I hate men for anything but (female-dominant) sex. In fact, I think that's the best thing men could ever do.

[+][deleted] 11 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[permanently deleted]

[+]misandrysandy -6 points-5 points-4 points 11 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

When a woman is raped, there is going to be at least one man who did it (if not more). Guilt or innocence is irrelevant, because if you choose some random male to punish, chances are he either did rape the specific victim, or he's raped someone else. So punishing him for the crime, whether he committed that specific one or not, is certainly justifiable and reasonable to do.

[–]snarkymcthrowaway 2 points3 points4 points 11 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Wow. Go back to Tumblr, you twit. The grownups are talking.

[–]misandrysandy -1 points0 points1 point 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This site is full of men. Men are not grownups.

[–]exo762 1 point2 points3 points 11 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Philadelphia, 80-ies. Police are recording every accusation of rape they receive in official papers (no unofficial talk before registration is made). Results - 52% of accusation are recorded in official papers as "unfounded". "Unfounded" in this context means "not happened, including sex part". And those are accusations by people coming to police stations and reporting stuff. A lot of accusations never make it to police.

Sources and discussion

Browse all authors
You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

© TheRedArchive 2026. All rights reserved.
created by /u/dream-hunter