Mods at /r/AskReddit are standing their ground when dealing with SRS. This is what prompted the "askreddit mods are not your mommies and daddies" thread.

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[–]acientalien[S] 32 points33 points34 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]Pilebsa 14 years ago* [recovered] (65 children) | Copy Link

When SRS started fucking with my subreddit I banned 'em. I caught some heat for it but I'm glad I did that. I wish every other mod would outright ban any other group who's sole purpose is to act as a downvote brigade and silence certain opinions as an alternative to debate.

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[+]Pilebsa 14 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

And anyone who joins their group and expresses any dissatisfaction over their heavy-handed policies gets insta-banned. When they sent a downvote brigade after something on my sub, I posted an inquiry in their sub and rather than engage in dialogue I was instantly banned, so I thought, two can play that game. In the course of this, it was discovered that there are a number of well-known internet pundits who subscribe to that hate-filled-so-called-"anti-hate" group including that dingbat Rebecca Watson aka "Skepchic" who actually went so far as to create a misspelled-version of my subreddit and ban me from it after I banned her. They're all really nasty, anti-social miscreants who have zero tolerance for the existence of dissent.

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[+]Pilebsa 14 years ago* [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Which reminds me. I want to thank the SA mods for probating me so many times for having the audacity question their stupid-ass status quo that I finally left and went elsewhere, eventually ending up cultivating a much more mature community on Reddit. I now look back at SA and realize how pathetic I was as I was slowly being trained to "be nice" and get in line. Fuck 'em.

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[+]Pilebsa 14 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

There's an eerie similarity between SRS and SA, no doubt. It's like a beauty contest run by zombies. This may be one of the bad examples of what cyberspace has wrought: the ability for insecure people to band together into one larger, "death star" of passive-aggressive self loathing that can be projected like a WMD.

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I don't believe "it's just a circle jerk!" for a second. They seem to think that they're separate and above the rest of reddit (and probably the rest of humanity), but they're not. The circlejerk is used as an excuse by truly hateful people to say terrible things without any accountability (like robotanna)

I wouldn't even be surprised if it turned out a lot of them don't actually give a shit about the ridiculous ideology and just go along with it for an excuse to hate.

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That subreddit and its offshoots need banning, and swiftly.

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[+]TalesAbound 14 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

/r/atheism is not a circle jerk, it is an echo chamber. There was a rage comic making the rounds there a few days ago explaining why it is and has to be that way.

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[–]MrMulligan1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Pretty much. Most of the people who flock to the subreddit do so because they either

need a place to vent due to their surrounding coworkers or family being hellbent on atheism being something evil (more common than you think).

or

Have just made up their minds about religion and want a place to feel accepted and like others say, echo their opinion because they are finally stretching their wings.

Eventually they will have grown to the point where they don't need this and unsubscribe as more and more young fed-up people flock in. I went through this cycle, and thousands of others have as well. Think of it as a gay person who just came out and gets shit for it would go rant on a gay focused subreddit, or a gay man is surrounded by anti-gay people and needs a place to vent. It's the same idea, but the atheist subreddit just has larger exposure.

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I am starting to get confused. Manhoodacademy has to be one of the dumbest things I have seen in a while. Well then again, there is also SRS. Poe's law has never been more applicable. People literally cant tell who the trolls are and who is serious.

Manhood academy has some TEXTBOOK about something, and I flipped through it wondering who in their right mind would take the time to assemble a thousand page pdf of blabber. Then it hit me. Either this person is not of sound mind or it is a joke. It could always be a hybrid of the two.

I guess my question is, are there people in SRS who legitimately take offense to things, or are they just people squawking for attention? What amazes me most about SRS is that they dont just UNSUBSCRIBE from the subreddits they dont like. They ACTIVLY go out of their way to read posts they "don't like" so they can chat about them. To me that is the same as repressed homosexual homophobes. They secretly love the stuff, but talk shit to appear like they are better than the scum they decry against. (I am in no way comparing homosexuals to scum, please don't read too far into that sentence.)

IF SRS sees this: Learn how to fucking use reddit. Unsubscribe from the subs you dont like. Don't look at them. Here are some subs you can subscribe to that may be of more interest than policing the internets. Get over yourselves.

http://www.reddit.com/r/dubstep+electronicmusic+DnB+trance+mashups+electrohouse+futurebeats+treemusic+gamemusic
http://www.reddit.com/r/realdubstep+futuregarage+House+chiptunes+swinghouse+ambientmusic
http://www.reddit.com/r/idm+mixes+experimentalmusic+psytrance+chillmusic+darkstep+Techno+triphop+glitch+minimal+breakcore+Complextro+hardstyle+proghouse+futurefunkairlines+moombahton+electro+industrialmusic+grime+breakbeat+purplemusic+happyhardcore+drumstep+ElectronicJazz
http://www.reddit.com/r/Glitchop+fidget+scene+Psybient+raggajungle+filth+tech_house+house_music+dub+darkdnb+NuDisco+deathstep+downtempo+UKFunky+funkhouse+electronicdancemusic+liquiddnb+headnodders+Skweee+filthstep+chillwave+gabber+witch_house+garage+frenchelectro+disco+uplifting+MINIMALTECH+noisemusic+Electropop+Cyberpunk_Music
http://www.reddit.com/r/futurebeatproducers+PsyBreaks+bassmusic+ElectronicaLounge+makenoise+italodisco+NewAgeMusic+FrenchHouse+progressivetrance+footwork+acidjazz+hardhouse+AcidHouse+Moombahcore+minimaljazz+dubstyle+NeuroFunk+drumfunk+chillout+Classictrance+Dubtechno+minimaltechno+FusionDanceMusic+BeatDrops+bootybass+SynthPop+deephousemusic+technomusic+seapunk+autonomic+Sambass http://www.reddit.com/r/groovesharkplaylists+djs+spotify+mixcd+pirateradio

http://www.reddit.com/r/circlejerk+firstworldproblems+fifthworldproblems+shittyaskscience+fitnesscirclejerk
http://www.reddit.com/r/botcirclejerk+Hiphopcirclejerk+infinitecirclejerk+limbojerk+metacirclejerk+metafitnesscirclejerk+metametacirclejerk+minescraftcirclejerk+mfacirclejerk+moderatorjerk+mylittlecirclejerk+surveyjerk+trianglejerk+triplemetacirclejerk+mesozoicworldproblems+prehistoricproblems+ancientworldproblems+medievalworldproblems+oregontrailproblems+secondworldproblems+thirdworldproblems+ThirdWorldWins+fourthworldproblems+seventhworldproblems+firstgradeproblems+britishproblems+fossworldproblems+futureworldproblems+timetravelproblems+parallelworldproblems+discworldproblems+cubeworldproblems+fantasyworldproblems+askashittydoctor+askashittyphilosopher+debateashittyatheist+shittyadvice+shittingadvice+shittyaskalawyer+shittyaskcooking+shittyaskhistory+shittyama+shittypoetry+shittysocialscience+ShittyTechSupport

Pro tip: If you use Reddit Enhancement Suite Reddit Enhancement Suite Reddit Enhancement Suite you can +DASHBOARD each link. This effectivly allows you to subscribe to hundreds and hundreds of subreddits while keeping it organized by topic and size of community. I can only hope this post goes down in history as the one that destroyed SRS by giving them something better to talk about.

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[+][deleted] -36 points-35 points-34 points 14 years ago (35 children) | Copy Link

Hi, we know how to view multiple subs at once and how to subscribe and unsubscribe. You're thinking that we're all new users who are raging at r/all because we don't know where to find the "quality" subs. No, unlike you and people like you, we chose to not ignore all of the bigoted, creepy, misogynistic, transphobic, unsettling, racist, and homophobic things we see. Many of us have been here for years. We don't hide from it, we highlight very highly upvoted posts from major subs that most users on this site see. As many people here don't even register, and if they register, they don't comment or vote. We look at Reddit as the rest of the internet sees it and hold up all of the shit that flies in the face of how Reddit sells itself, a progressive, welcoming, altruistic community full of intellectuals. So, until Reddit stops thinking that it is, or actually starts acting like it, we won't be going anywhere. Sorry.

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[–]usergeneration 9 points10 points11 points 14 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

See this kind of thing doesnt make sense

So, until Reddit stops thinking that it is, or actually starts acting like it, we won't be going anywhere.

Reddit is a platform. You will always get EVERY type of opinion. Reddit is not single hive mind like we pretend it is. Reddit will never stop getting posts that make us uncomfortable. That is why the admins invented the hide button.

SRS Says: If reddit can boast that some acts of philanthropic altruism are representative of all reddit (when obviously not all redditors were involved in those good works), there is no reason reddit should not also be held accountable for fostering an environment that encourages upvoting bigoted comments.

The thing is, people who say "Reddit accomplished something" are just sorta wrong. Two wrongs DONT make a right. Neither is representative of the community as a whole, only those who participate.

[+]TalesAbound 14 years ago* [recovered] (18 children) | Copy Link

we highlight posts with between 40 and 200 upvotes from major subs that most users on this site see, ignore their downvotes, and hold this up as an endemic problem with reddit's userbase on a most basic level

FTFY

Reddit sells itself, a progressive, welcoming, altruistic community full of intellectuals.

It does no such thing. Perhaps it may have been seen as such about three years ago, but that has long ended and is not the case now. Reddit is far more diverse and chaotic than in its hayday, and there are many more conservative or unaltruistic or selfish or non-intellectual redditors. That this is the basic philosophical foundation of SRS should show you how dumb the whole thing is, but you and your fellow subredditors can't be expected to know any better.

[+][deleted] -11 points-10 points-9 points 14 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]TalesAbound 6 points7 points8 points 14 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

But when was the last time an admin made a nigger joke or a senior member of staff engaged in any of the sexism[1], homophobia, racism or any other charge that SRS levels at the entire reddit universe? The leadership of the site is not the same as the community, and reddit has so many communities that need not necessarily mix or share ideology and standards that to make the claim that you and the rest of SRS do seems flawed at best and absurd at worst. Or, to spin another line of thought, even if 60% or 70% of a community laughed at a nigger joke or upvoted it or condoned it but still contributed towards helping the orphanage, then what then? Where would the moral outrage be directed?

[1] It's interesting to note sexism as something SRS finds so abhorrent considering the frequent views against males made there. It is my opinion that the moral crusader angle played by SRS is a veneer; you don't care about the things you claim to, you just want to be self-righteous. And there's evidence of this in the instant shutdown of anyone who tries to call SRS on it via bans.

[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

But when was the last time an admin made a nigger joke or a senior member of staff engaged in any of the sexism[1], homophobia, racism or any other charge that SRS levels at the entire reddit universe?

It's all of us that act as Reddit, we all represent the site to outside sources and to new users attempting to learn the culture. It's not just the staff that the media talks about, as CNN has shown us.

Or, to spin another line of thought, even if 60% or 70% of a community laughed at a nigger joke or upvoted it or condoned it but still contributed towards helping the orphanage, then what then? Where would the moral outrage be directed?

You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't cut a check for a needy child, and then turn around and crack a nigger joke without anyone calling out the hypocrisy of it all. Also, we get told constantly that people are actually trying to be offensive, and we respond with yeah well then you'll have no problem with us calling you what you set out to be.

It's interesting to note sexism as something SRS finds so abhorrent considering the frequent views against males made there.

Part of the circlejerk is to turn it around on the majority and see how they like it. Violence against women, slut jokes, "women logic" you name it is laughed at and upvoted all over the place here, but as soon as you put the shoe on the foot of the average straight, white male Redditor, it ceases being funny, and that's the point we're trying to make.

you don't care about the things you claim to, you just want to be self-righteous. And there's evidence of this in the instant shutdown of anyone who tries to call SRS on it via bans.

Oh, we very deeply care, and are called trolls for honestly expressing our beliefs. And the bans are to keep out derailing, and mostly people seeking to get a rile out of us, telling us how happy they are that "a bunch of fat cunts and queer manginas care about them". For those not doiing so, the sidebar very clearly states that it's a circlejerk for our own amusement as minorities who are sick of taking shit. Either you join in, or are banned, there are separate places such as r/SRSDiscussion if you care to engage a debate.

[–]TalesAbound 3 points4 points5 points 14 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[+][deleted] -9 points-8 points-7 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I can tell you personally that SRS has engaged in no false flagging, we are much too concerned about getting banned both as individuals and losing the sub. We work within the rules, believe it or not, and admins have checked things internally to confirm this. We are not here to attack Reddit and make it look any worse than it already is, there is no need to skew voting or have any false flag operations when Redditors are doing these things themselves. And like any group, as you mentioned within r/mensrights, there will a few bad apples that do things you may not agree with. I don't agree with my fellow white people parodying angry minorities when some go around shouting "kill whitey", I don't feel that has any benefit even if they may mean well in trying to illustrate how awful racism can feel to Reddit which is predominantly white.

And as you can see, many of us do engage, here I am talking to an MRA politely and actually having a discussion. All SRSers are like this, I have had some of the most wonderful discussions with people that Reddit has termed trolls. It's just when we're dismissed and ignored that we have little recourse than to form a circle and laugh at our in-jokes instead of pulling our hair out.

[–]gprime 2 points3 points4 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You can't cut a check for a needy child, and then turn around and crack a nigger joke without anyone calling out the hypocrisy of it all.

You absolutely can. Why? Because the concern reddit has is with people actually suffering, not getting offended. A joke is ultimately harmless. Starvation or a lack of shelter or a medical condition is not.

Violence against women, slut jokes, "women logic" you name it is laughed at and upvoted all over the place here, but as soon as you put the shoe on the foot of the average straight, white male Redditor, it ceases being funny, and that's the point we're trying to make.

But that really isn't an efficient way of articulating your point. You think Gandhi would've been more successful if he's started slitting British throats? You think MLK would be fondly remembered and so influential if he's embraced the thuggishness of Malcolm X? When you advocate one thing and do the other, you appear to be a hypocrite, so you automatically get written off, even if you have a legitimate point (which generally never holds with SRS).

there are separate places such as r/SRSDiscussion if you care to engage a debate.

But they turn out not to be any better. I recall one fellow being banned from it for raising a question as whether or not the patriarchy exists in the present.

[–]WithoutAComma 1 point2 points3 points 14 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]WithoutAComma1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I completely understand the need for people who have felt genuine oppression to have a safe space in which they can express themselves. Sometimes it's necessary for people to vent, the definition of which I consider to be needed emotional, not rational, outburst. But as a byproduct of too much indulgence in this, it also can resemble a sort of ideologically rigid moral crusade that is directed outward with little regard for legitimate dissent from others or self-reflection on the part of the community.

Taken to the extreme (which is very much is, and often), constant in-group venting leads to hardening of opinion (us against the world, virtually the definition of SRS within the Reddit community as a whole). Going to a place where everyone agrees with you, in a vacuum, and then directing the groupthink outward to punish others is not a noble pursuit despite intentions, and it's a reason why SRS can be so annoying. Many of us aren't homophobes, racists, misogynists or haters, and we're tired of you guys stomping in and making us out to be your enemies. It's divisive and tiresome.

Don't get me wrong, maybe to some it's the content of your message, and there definitely are homophobes, racists, misogynists and haters out there. But to some of us, your tactics and your orthodoxy are extremely grating.

[–][deleted]1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Before I continue, I'd just like to mention that I appreciate being listened to, and the way in which you're engaging me here, I truly to appreciate it.

Moving on, the thing is, if you can get past feeling annoyed and appreciate it for what it is and try to understand where the anger is coming from, that's all it takes. To let something as petty as personal annoyance dictate what you expose yourself to, to me is a cop out. Me personally, I I am cis gendered and white, and it would be at the height of my privilege to dismiss our trans folk and PoC voices simply because I find the message grating. You may disagree with our methods, and to be honest, it's not for anyone but us, so it's OK if you don't like it. We're actually a pretty tight group, having fun supporting each other and watching each others back. Also, if you have a few mins, this might give you some insight into the mindset of SRS checking these out:

1
2
3

[–]WithoutAComma2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I skimmed these a bit; I will look more into it later (I am actually at work, though obviously not being particularly productive). From what I quickly gathered, though, it doesn't really change my fundamental perception.

Let me clarify one thing: I am very committed to countering racism, sexism, and other backward mentalities that will hopefully some day be symbols of a dead age. I say that not because I feel I need to prove myself to anybody, but because I feel that you are equating a dislike of the tactics of SRS with a lack of commitment to this ideal. To be fair, you are doing so politely and earnestly, showing a discretion that sometimes is not shared by your peers. But underlying that argument is the self-righteousness that has become a standard, and legitimate, IMO, criticism of SRS.

Not caring for the way in which SRS chooses to develop and spread its message is not necessarily "dismissing our trans fold and PoC voices" or anyone else for that matter, nor is it dictating what I'm exposed to, and to suggest so is unfair. You don't even know how much exposure I've already had or continue to have regularly, nor do you know what I may have faced personally. You don't even know my race, my gender identification, or my sexual orientation. You're making your own assumptions.

I believe anger is justified, fair, and natural for many who have been impacted by anything running the scale from the most subtle bias to outright oppression. But SRS at its worst channels its efforts into methods that are willfully tear-down in nature, imitating the excesses of its enemies rather than trying to rise above them. Regardless of the benefits that might have to the community as a whole (which you demonstrate well, and I believe are true), fighting fire with fire insulates legitimate perspectives from public consideration. It polarizes, and polarization is a major obstacle to understanding and dialogue. In the process of building its community and constantly reaffirming its own righteousness for the benefit of only itself, it does a fair amount of collateral damage, and I have a hard time respecting that. I respect groups which strive for solutions, not those whose efforts contribute towards perpetuating our problems.

I've also enjoyed this conversation, thank you for listening and replying thoughtfully.

[–][deleted]1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

. You don't even know how much exposure I've already had or continue to have regularly, nor do you know what I may have faced personally. You don't even know my race, my gender identification, or my sexual orientation. You're making your own assumptions.

You're right, I am working off of the theme of this sub and the demographics of the site.

It polarizes, and polarization is a major obstacle to understanding and dialogue.

The reason it's full of people like acting like they are is after countless, careful, thoughtful conversations that lead nowhere. Attempts at just trying to engage are attacked and worn down into semantics detracting from the point. Day, after day after day, until you just give up and stop challenging every sexist/racist/homophobic comment you see and bury your head and give up. I urge you to fight it every day and see where that leads you. Instead, we come together, strengthening one another and continue to challenge the status quo united instead of being all alone and shouted down. Again, most of Reddit simplky dismisses us outright, there are themes to tag us in RES and then ignore all of us, there are over 42 subs dedicated to hating us, most notable r/bigotryshowcase and r/antisrs, you will see opeople here in MR immediately say "SRS TROLL DOWNVOTE AND IGNORE!" without even reading what we have written. This happens practically anywhere we go, and unites us even further. We are literally treated as the enemy.

[–]WithoutAComma2 points 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–][deleted]-1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]WithoutAComma1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I've been trying my whole life. The key is accepting that cultural change comes very, very slowly, and to not let your frustration that our culture won't jump 5 steps forward distract you from taking a purposeful first step.

This comes with an acknowledgement that our society will probably never get to the enlightened state we want in our lifetimes. That's definitely a shitty thing to have to accept. But given it's likely my only option, I'd rather be a part of our incremental gains than a contributor to cultural stalemate. This is bigger than us, and if I can be a part of what small progress we CAN achieve I will be happy to at least have been part of something, even if it's never enough to satisfy me.

Let me say one more time that I'm not blaming you, SRS, or anyone else for the impulse to tear down; it certainly can feel like a sort of commitment to justice, if not progress. I've been there, and sometimes I am still there. But it does little to effect the kind of change that, from what I've gathered, is your root desire.

You can choose to reject or disagree with this type of commitment if you'd like, but I hope that you will consider it.

Edit: for clarity

[–]usergeneration1 point 14 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]s73v3r 0 points1 point2 points 14 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]usergeneration 11 points12 points13 points 14 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

{I dont want to ruin my own circlejerk before it starts BUT I may have lied a little. SRS is stupid but I find it very funny and entertaining. You guys are a hoot. That being said, even very experienced redditors dont know about many of those subs. I thought I would throw you guys a bone and show you some of the more interesting parts of reddit I have found. I by no means want SRS to end, but it would possibly be even more entertaining if you jerked in the geekier subreddits instead of concentrating on mensrights and such. That way your entire day isnt spent reading poop. I figured the only way to get your attention was to be a butthole and say something mean about SRS.}

BACK TO CIRCLEJERKING!

No, unlike you and people like you, we chose to not ignore all of the bigoted, creepy, misogynistic, transphobic, unsettling, racist, and homophobic things we see.

You say that as if it is a bad thing. You are not actually changing peoples minds, in fact you are probably only helping them make their beliefs more concrete. It is fine if you want to call it out, I personally find it to be a slight waste of time, compared to I dunno, reading about space and nanobots. I have no problem with you concentrating on those topics, but there is more to reddit than poop and a lot of people seem to believe SRS doesnt know that. I am unsure because SRS is such a well acted out jerk of circle proportions, it has become a near perfect example of poe's law.

EDIT: I guess my one criticism of SRS is that it seems to fly in the face of "the streisand effect." Offtopic but heck, I think they should rename it the Rakolta Effect. She started a letter campaign against Married with Children, and succeeded in making the show much more popular. Oops. Calling attention to something bad that you dont want people to see usually just makes more people see it and makes everything worse. If SRS is a parody and the users dont actually care if people are saying racist/whatever stuff, then it makes sense. If they truly hate sexist/bigoted/etc stuff it is best NOT to call attention to it. The FAQ makes it pretty clear though "Being a downvote brigade would ruin the fun." SRS does not actually care about being PC, they just like reading poop. Another FAQ gem. "it probably encourages people to post more outrageous comments in the hope they will make it into the SRS hall-of-fame. Honestly, good! It would keep our subreddit active." See SRS doesn't care about racist/etc stuff, they ENJOY reading it. What do you call a person who LIKES reading racist/homophobic stuff? For them, it is fun to find assholes and mock them. It sort of seems like a bully bullying another bully. Do two wrongs make a right? To each their own I suppose.

EDIT2: Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo

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I swear to God there's a direct connection between what the SPLC did and SRS. One day it'll be proven.

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