What's the difference between the red pill and misogyny?

ThunderDU · 2026-02-05T08:06:22+00:00

Everyone in this subreddit agrees that self improvement is for everybody. going to the gym eating well social skills So what is left of the red pill outside of...

[–]ViolentShallotRed Pill Man 71 points72 points73 points 6 months ago (145 children) | Copy Link

Happy to answer.

The trick with this post -whether you wanted to do it or you're just confused- is that you've both generalized the advice to the point it's almost saying nothing, and that you've left out a good chunk of it.

It's like saying that, say, everyone knows all it needs to be known about marketing, because all the degree teaches is "how to make people like a product".

So, I'll thread a little more carefully and highlight some concepts of red pill that aren't either "general knowledge" nor "misogyny". Notice that they are all somewhat linked, because the red pill realizations are very narrow in their scope.

You mentioned "social skills". That can be anything. It's like saying that the way to build an airplane is to "improve your technical skills".

1 - For the red pill, "Attracting women" is essentially a specific social skill. It's not "being more sociable", it's not "making friends", it's specifically "behaving in a way that creates attraction". It states that:

If you know how to behave, you can create attraction to a woman.
That this skill is independent from your actual quality as a person, or skills, or nature.
That this skill can be trained, and should, if you want to succeed with women.

Why is this unpopular: It can come off as manipulation. If men know what behaviors women really filter for, those filters become less useful. It's much more convenient to have men thinking the most important behavior is niceness and then filter by confidence, assertiveness and charisma than to have men signaling traits that aren't there. It's personality makeup.

2- Women are people. Somewhat different, for different reasons, but not essentially dissimilar from men. They are horny, they gossip about sexual conquests, they have a tiny fragile ego, they like being desired, and the are as shallow as men. The entire idea of "attracted to virtue" is a lie.

While men are sexually attracted to looks and willingness (most people underestimate the latter), women are attracted, roughly in this order, to looks, confidence, charisma, assertiveness and competence. If you look at those carefully, none of them are virtue, and most of them (four out of five) are shallow as fuck. But if you can successfully signal them, women will want to fuck you.

Why is this unpopular: Many women don't like being portrayed in a fair and human way. Humanity is ugly, and women have been put in a pedestal above it for a while. The notion that your attraction is so shallow that a guy with some practice can make you horny paints you as... no better than men. It goes against most mainstream advice, "Work on you for you", "If you do X to get women they will notice", ETC.

3- The first and most crucial step to creating attraction is to signal sexual interest early on.

With men, you can "start as friends" and then move up and end up getting a guy attracted. The red pill points out that with women, you need to be bold with your intentions and very early show that you see the woman as a potential sexual partner. It encourages not to hide your sexuality, and shows that if you are overly respectful and careful, you get immediately friendzoned.

Shows how men need to escalate, verbally into flirting, and physically into more physical contact, from the get go.

Why is this unpopular: It can easily be misconstrued as harassment. It also again depicts women as humans who like being desired, which goes against the mainstream message. It exposes women to sexual advances of men they might not like, which is uncomfortable for them. It's much more convenient to make people believe they hate it, and for the chosen guys to disregard the social norm once they see "hints".

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I don't see how people think that 80/20 nonsense is the truth.

The one guy I know of that's being cucked has a good job, he's a gym dude, and has a conventionally good-looking face, and he's the only guy that is being used by a woman the red pill would say is being "hypergamous." It's the normal dudes like my husband that:

Are married and have families with loyal spouses.
Have long-term relationships with loyal partners.
All of them have attractive qualities physically, but they're average dudes overall. But they're attractive to their wives/partners, and that's what matters. On the occasions our sex lives are referenced, all of us have good sex lives from the sound of it.

The only one that is suffering from the "hypergamous" woman trope the red pill peddles is the guy that's "doing everything right" according to them.

[–]Boring-Boysenberry01 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I don't see how people think that 80/20 nonsense is the truth.

The one guy I know of that's being cucked has a good job, he's a gym dude, and has a conventionally good-looking face, and he's the only guy that is being used by a woman the red pill would say is being "hypergamous." It's the normal dudes like my husband that:

Are married and have families with loyal spouses.
Have long-term relationships with loyal partners.
All of them have attractive qualities physically, but they're average dudes overall. But they're attractive to their wives/partners, and that's what matters. On the occasions our sex lives are referenced, all of us have good sex lives from the sound of it.

The only one that is suffering from the "hypergamous" woman trope the red pill peddles is the guy that's "doing everything right" according to them. We tried to help him, but he won't listen to us, so we're just trying to be there to support him when the fallout happens.

[–]Initial_Musician8723Red Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

You do know wealthy people shop at Walmart too? Wealthy people stay wealthy by being intelligent about budgeting/spending, especially on everyday one-use items. Less money spent on products/groceries = more money to invest.

Also, there are a lot of issues in just looking at a couple and making judgments about the dating scene from seeing couples when you go outside. The classic example of a beautiful girl with an average guy is often misleading. Why? Because you can see ~90% of the women’s SMV in her beauty/youth. But you cannot see the majority of a man’s SMV just by looking at him. I’d argue around 75% of a man’s SMV is from his resources (money), status/career/social circle, social skills/charisma/humour, competence, and overall vibe. Only ~25% is appearance (sometimes a bit more, sometimes less depending on the woman).

So you’re looking at only one thing to determine if they’re equal and it doesn’t paint the whole picture. It would be like being an accountant and thinking “why would this man making 200k settle for this woman making 35k”. You’re looking at it from a naive or overly simplistic point of view.

[–]Boring-Boysenberry0Married / No Pill / Woman -2 points-1 points0 points 6 months ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how people think that 80/20 nonsense is the truth.

The one guy I know of that's being cucked has a good job, he's a gym dude, and has a conventionally good-looking face, and he's the only guy that is being used by a woman the red pill would say is being "hypergamous." It's the normal dudes like my husband that: - Are married and have families with loyal spouses. - Have long-term relationships with loyal partners. - All of them have attractive qualities physically, but they're average dudes overall. But they're attractive to their wives/partners, and that's what matters. - On the occasions our sex lives are referenced, all of us have good sex lives from the sound of it.

The only one that is suffering from the "hypergamous" woman trope the red pill peddles is the guy that's "doing everything right" according to them. We tried to help him, but he won't listen to us, so we're just trying to be there to support him when the fallout happens. The guy he's being cucked by is a roommate (he lost his house), pays for his girlfriend to not work, and our friend owns the home. He's the more attractive dude between the two, "doing all of it right" per the red pill, but he's the guy that's getting used and cheated on.

[–]Boring-Boysenberry0Married / No Pill / Woman 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (30 children) | Copy Link

Even Disney portrayed women as needing more than niceness to feel real attraction and compatibility. It's easily digestible, but there was some nuance. Since a lot of those films were sold as being for girls, a lot of girls paid more attention to the content. Frankly, there were good lessons for boys, too.

As a late Millennial, it was YA media that pushed that oversimplified "be nice and you'll get the girl" slop to boys, and then girls were encouraged to explore our personhood more deeply from different perspectives, and we grew up to see that the watered down advice pushed onto boys isn't applicable outside of writer's rooms for "teen movies" and sitcoms.

Parents of Millennials and early Gen Z errored when they assumed that all of this messaging about finding ourselves and individuality was making its way to the boys, too, and indirectly allowed slop entertainment to raise sheltered men that don't understand modern dating isn't as straight as it was back when it was as simple as "be nice and have a good job, and you'll get the girl." Now modern dating is viewed as some trick, because it's not the stroll through the park men were promised, and rather than recognize that the advice given was well-meaning, but outdated, men fall for a ideology that's peddles solid advice that is good for all of us plus misogynistic pseudoscience about the "psychology of women" that portrays us vixens that will hop to the next man at any moment if our man is not this perfect image of what the red pill considers "real masculinity."

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Nor I harbor anything against women, despite there being -both in my life and out- enormous examples of the absolute worst stereotypes attributed to them.

And it wasn't only media. That is a bit of a collective cop out. Women are more than happy with the status quo. And it's fine, it's not an accusation. People get in my throat, but I hold no anger towards people doing what's best for them.

It's just useful to point it out.

It's incredibly convenient for women to have a situation where men believe that the best way to fuck is to be giving, "nice", friendly, respectful, and to listen to them.

That way even when those that are not naturally like that pretend, well, at least you're being treated well. And then you only end up with those that naturally display the traits that get you horny - Looks, confidence, charisma, assertiveness, competence -

The alternative, the one where everyone is red pilled and knows this, is bad for women. Suddenly men that don't have natural confidence or charisma or assertiveness start acting exactly like those that do. Your selection method starts failing. Men stop being nice.

So, let's be honest here. It's not only media.

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Modern RELATIONSHIPS are complicated. The dating stage? Show looks, confidence, charisma, assertiveness and competence. It doesn't matter that "all women are different."

See, that's the problem. There's a lot of women that don't entertain a relationship, because it's a waste of time if the dating stage reveals that the date wouldn't be compatible as a relationship.

Then men complain about those women treating the dating stage like an interview, when we (I was one of those women, which is how I met my husband) don't wait until the relationship to determine compatibility. Our "standards are too high" during the dating phase.

Then men complain about women who are less strict during the dating phase, and have a higher body count as a result. Those women are sluts or too easy or used up after they learn from those failed relationships, and learn to start be careful during the dating stage.

For me, looks, confidence, charisma and assertiveness did not get men through the door to a relationship and sex. I asked about long-term goals, I asked about values, all of the important things early.

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I think I'll elaborate with an example:

Imagine a company wants all workers to be hard working, to be on time, to do extra time for no pay.

So the company makes an effort to make employees believe that promotion is based on punctuality, hard work, and overtime.

But in secret, the company doesn't really choose based on that. They want people who show leadership skills by naturally coordinating their coworkers.

So in reality those promoted are the people that not only do their work, but also "help" others by overseeing them.

That's ideal for the company. All workers break their back being hard workers, and then the management can pick the natural leaders.

Now the company red pill comes.

Some people start saying that the way management picks is by picking those who oversee others "naturally".

So a number of workers, even if they aren't really natural leaders, just want to get promoted, and start making an effort to signal "natural leadership".

Also they realize overtime is useless to get promotes.

Suddenly the company has no more free labor, and it has it MUCH harder to discover who is a natural leader, and who just knows that's the criteria.

So of course the company says that the workers claiming that are wrong, and hate management.

Now, replace "working overtime" -> "being nice, respectful, supportive and listening to women", "Showing managing skills" -> "Displaying confidence, charisma, assertiveness and competence", and "Being a natural leader" -> "Being naturally assertive, confident and charismatic".

Obviously, "workers" -> "men"

"Company leadership" -> "Women"

"Being promoted" -> "Going on dates and having sex"

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The entire issue here is... that most of this is subconscious. Men don't look at boobs because "this means the woman is fertile"

We like boobs. The reason is at this stage, irrelevant. So a woman with clearly fake boobs will still elicit the same sexual response.

Women aren't attracted to certain behaviors because "they signal social adaptability and preselection", they just... find the person behaving like that "hot".

And men that understand the red pill don't necessarily know how to verbalize it. They just read "A, B and C works", they try it, observe those trying it, it aligns with what they see, and some maybe make up more or less accurate rationalizations of why it works.

Then, as any other thing, it gets mixed. Often with conservativism, sometimes with darker stuff. Conclusions get drawn. Some accurate, some less so.

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Looks are extremely important, but they have decreasing yield. Sure, be fit, sure, lift, but powering through lack of the other traits by looks alone is impossible without extreme genetic luck.

Hypergamy/“female nature”

I said it. Women are as shallow as men. They will say they select based on virtue and fuck the hottest guy. Hottest here being the combination of looks, confidence, charisma, assertiveness and competence.

Societal “malice”, aka society “lying” to men

I said it. Women are as shallow as men. They will say they select based on virtue and fuck the hottest guy. Hottest here being the combination of looks, confidence, charisma, assertiveness and competence.

“Gynocentrism”, aka the reason society lies to men

Eh, absolutely useless term that's way too flexible to be of any help. It's like "patriarchy" or "manosphere".

“Tests” and “frame”

Both true, as manifestations of probing for confidence, assertiveness and charisma.

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Actually, for someone just getting into RP, I think there are some critical things you need to keep in mind.

First and foremost, RP is mostly heuristics. It has a bit of an awkward definition, but it boils down to "Rules that might not be 100% accurate but if you follow them you get results". When it says anything about... anything, really, it's not to be taken as an imperative or a definition. "Always look both ways before crossing the street" is a useful heuristic.

"But man, I am in an empty stretch of road in the desert and I can hear cars 30km away"

You get the point.

Second, and this is fucking critical for fucks sake if you get anything from my comments this should be it:

The red pill elaborates on what generates ATTRACTION. Attraction, biological desire, is not the entire part of the decision chain. You can want food, doesn't mean you will steal a pizza from a person eating it on the restaurant.

Men feel desire to fuck different women, yeah, but we also have other elements that might stop us from doing so. I am married, I love my wife, my impulse to fuck my hot friend is only that. An impulse. Not an imperative, not something I feed, doesn't define my actions.

When the red pill says women are hypergamous, it means they have the impulse to fuck better men. You can better frame it as "men want to fuck different women as long as they are acceptably attractive" and "women don't even register men that are worse in every way than the one they are with now, but will feel attraction towards those that are better"

"Feel attraction" doesn't mean fantasize, doesn't mean try to fuck, doesn't mean fuck. If feeling attraction meant acting on it not a single man would be faithful. Life is about controlling your impulses.

So if the red pill says "women are hypergamous", that means they only feel sexual desire towards "better" (More looks, confidence, charisma, assertiveness and/or competence). Anyone drawing the conclusion "therefore you shouldn't have a stable relationship with one" is a fucking moron, and you need to take everything he says with a slab of salt.

Because they are confusing (or deliberately omitting) the difference between impulse and decision.

In general, any red pill content that tells you how you should live your life isn't red pill, and generally has to be taken with skepticism.

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What? This is blue pilled advice extended

Have social skills and acknowledge that social skills vary by context lmao. The way a job interview requires skill but not the same skill as making a new friend.
Treat women as people, capable of doing good or bad, they have feelings, emotions and aren’t robots. These can vary based on all sorts of factors and women are not perfect and shouldn’t be held to the standard of being perfect. Not to mention, women feel sexual attraction, women can be shallow, and there are many different traits of men that appeal to women depending on the woman. Also how is being attracted to confidence or charisma some shallow fact about women? But it is not more shallow to see a random woman and go “me want fuck” all the time regardless of any other factor present?
Don’t frjendzone yourself with someone you’re romantically or sexually interested in AKA be honest about your intentions with women. Women feel weird when they don’t know your intentions and feel blindsided about feelings popping up in someone they thought was platonic.

The redpill is misogynistic. It stems from a bunch of frustrated, incredibly angry men and that’s why everything is framed as “women bad” even though most of the advice is normal coming of age basic social development stuff you learn as a teen and into early adulthood.

If these men were not angry, bitter as fuck, horned up and sexually frustrated, the advice would just come out blue pilled.

[–]ViolentShallotRed Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago (6 children) | Copy Link

I am... not angry, not bitter, and certainly neither horned up nor frustrated. And I defend these pieces of advice often here, and a lot of blue pilled people get really really upset at me for a number of reasons.

But hey, if you insist that the blue pill acknowledges that there's a specific skill for flirting, that it can be learned, that it can generate attraction for the overwhelming majority of women (no bullshit about "everyone is different so no single skill can work for a majority"), that women are (not can be, that's a cop out) as shallow as men, that the blue pill recommends showing your sexual intentions early, to do activities with the express goal to meet women, etcetera, and you prove it to me with a decent consensus among those that consider themselves blue pilled, then I'll gladly change my tag.

Good luck though.

Also how is being attracted to confidence or charisma some shallow fact about women? But it is not more shallow to see a random woman and go “me want fuck” all the time regardless of any other factor present?

You say these silly, short sighted, justifying things and then call it misogyny when called out.

I'll spell it out for you, because instead of thinking about it for a second you went full "I'm offended and must retaliate", like some sad teenager. (Notice that despite your best efforts I don't generally agree with the advice of "treat women like the oldest teenager in the house", but fuck you're making a case for it)

Confidence and charisma are shallow traits. They are skin deep. They hold no moral value whatsoever. You can be confident and charismatic while being a fucking asshole with nothing going on for you. You can lack confidence and charisma and be an absolute saint full of amazing traits.

It's as shallow as boobs or ass.

u/ThunderDU , remember when I said how it's easy to slide from red pill knowledge to darker, more misogynistic stuff? Here's a shining example.

With the red pill you realize women are as shallow as men. That traits like charisma or confidence can be trained in a few months. So you train them. You don't essentially change anything of who you are or your value, but you start getting success.

Then you find women like this one. More, the louder you are about your findings. Women that are so up in their own ass that cannot for a second stop and think "Hm, maybe confidence IS a shallow trait".

Women that call you misogynistic, horned up, ETC. Your conclusions are either "something everyone always says" (Despite you finding millions of examples of people denying them) or "just hate and bigotry".

It's... very easy to think these women, that are on themselves as damaged as any incel, that are speaking out of personal grievances and baggage and are border-unfit for society, represent women in general. And that's before social media puts them front and center.

Now, I know it's not the case. I have wonderful friends. Good exes, a solid social group. Coworkers I admire, and over all an absolutely amazing wife. But until a red piller really puts in the work, and practices, and spends months, and gets comfortable with flirting, and sees enough success to not be stressed about it... it's hard for them to get counter examples to this raging, sad, person, and might fall into, as I said, darker generalizations.

[–]MayflowerMoversPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Purple_Cruncher_123M/37/Purple/Married 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

This is sort of besides the point, but reading through this chain reminds me a lot of my college course on Psychology of Religion. When you try to study religion and specifically its psychological groundings, it becomes very...dare I say pill-ish. Explaining phenomenon like speaking in tongues in a non-religious but sort of clinical and third-person approach really irked some of the more religious people in my class.

My experience of studying psychology in general is that people really get irked when you suggest they have limited control over their reactions/behaviors. It's like your point about why charisma/confidence works. It's not just in dating, it's in something like politics too. But people don't say they follow politician A or B because they're smooth and confident, it's because they have policy XYZ that they also support. But guess what, those policies are probably even better professed (and lived) by the guy who's working the charity soup kitchen, but that guy's probably not got the right pieces to ever become a politician.

[–]y2kjanellePink Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh boy. What is all this 🧍🏽‍♀️

No I don’t believe you were mister rainbows and sunshine when you turned to RP.

Yes blue pill talks about all of that, they just don’t get all weirdly angry at women for being human beings who are attracted to the same things men are. Barring that women are a bit more flexible than men in terms of their attraction.

You dont need to change your flair or your life or whatever. I’m just discussing this with you. I am aware most men aren’t here to get better, this place is for men who need circle jerk misogyny to soothe the pain from their dating struggles. That’s why most of them have been here for years and never graduate from Redpill U.

With your logic, any trait can be skin deep and shallow, giving it no meaning.

I am not even going to respond to the comparison to incels because one look at which groups are recognized as domestic terrorists will shut that up quick.

The rest of your comment is a strange rant into the void about me while directly replying to me. I don’t get it. You just said you’re not mad and then wrote paragraphs about me pushing men into the dark misogynistic side of redpill when it’s already dark, misogynistic and terrible.

I don’t care what you think it is and I don’t care who in your life has a pussy therefore proving that redpill is okay. It’s not okay, it’s harmful, and it can all be taught in a normal manner without misogyny and all the bullshit. Enough.

[–]CelicnisGhostAscended past Red Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]y2kjanellePink Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ViolentShallotRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

No I don’t believe you were mister rainbows and sunshine when you turned to RP.

I am now, and way, way more redpilled than I was then (as it worked)

Yes blue pill talks about all of that, they just don’t get all weirdly angry at women for being human beings who are attracted to the same things men are.

I am happy that you acknowledge all those. Now go find three blue pillers that agree with you without adding a "but" behind those statements.

I’m just discussing this with you. I am aware most men aren’t here to get better, this place is for men who need circle jerk misogyny to soothe the pain from their dating struggles.

As the follow up to your initial sentence proves, you're not here to discuss, just to demean. And not in a particularly well backed manner. A sizeable amount of red pillers here are in fulfilling relationships, me included. But by all means, please tell me exactly what I said that you consider misogyny, considering how often you fling the word around.

With your logic, any trait can be skin deep and shallow, giving it no meaning.

No. Kindness isn't skin deep. Trustworthiness, generosity, empathy, commitment, consideration, wisdom. All those traits women say they are attracted to, but only consider in people they are already attracted to for shallow (looks, charisma, confidence) reasons.

I am not even going to respond to the comparison to incels because one look at which groups are recognized as domestic terrorists will shut that up quick.

No, it won't. Here you're equating dangerousness to lack of fitness to operate in society. A critically depressed person cannot operate in society appropriately. The fact some individuals manifest their damage in violent ways doesn't mean there are other manifestations of damage. Constant bitterness is an example of it. Are you happy with your relationships, Janelle? =)

I don’t care what you think it is and I don’t care who in your life has a pussy therefore proving that redpill is okay. It’s not okay, it’s harmful, and it can all be taught in a normal manner without misogyny and all the bullshit. Enough.

You obviously didn't read carefully enough. I was just telling OP that it's very easy for someone who still lacks a social and romantic life with women to believe that people like you (bitter, sad, aggressive, bad-faith arguers, manipulative) are somewhat representative of women.

Fortunately, that's not the case. You're the exception. You only exist in online spaces. You are to women what the sad incels are to men. A minority, but loud enough to be overrepresented in online spaces.

[–]jpla861 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]My_House_on_Mars✨millennial slop✨ woman 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago (15 children) | Copy Link

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[–]My_House_on_Mars✨millennial slop✨ woman 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]PrecisionHatPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]My_House_on_Mars✨millennial slop✨ woman 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]PrecisionHatPurple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Then by that logic any social science like psychology, psychoanalysis, all those are objective too

See what I mean? you have the definition of "objective" wrong. Hard sciences are objective, soft sciences aren't. Any study of behavior of people doesn't fall under the hard sciences category where math and physics are.

No I didn't say that. I'm looking at RP tenants. I'm not comparing them to broad social sciences or entire fields of study, which all encompass competing theories and there isn't even much consensus within them.

I'm just saying the RP looks at outcomes and reacts to them and tries to come up with practical ways for RP men to get what they want. They don't approach any of it caring about how people feel about it.

You guys are trying too hard to elevate trp like it's hard sciences because that would mean it's "true". But it just doesn't belong there.

you even have the definition of blue pill wrong. BP isn't an ideology, its just the world.

I'm not elevating it. I just know why it pisses people off. It doesn't coddle them or care about feelings or perceptions, just results.

I agree BP is just mainstream. But mainstream is often performative BS. And so long as the mainstream leaves some people out, they'll find a place that doesn't. It is what it is. RP wouldn't exist without the naivety and dismissiveness of BP.

[–]My_House_on_Mars✨millennial slop✨ woman 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Safe-Mention-7181Red Pill Man 12 points13 points14 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThunderDUBlue Pill Woman[S] 6 points7 points8 points 6 months ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]ThunderDUBlue Pill Woman[S] 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Good question. I personally think that everyone wants someone GOOD. Like. A partner to have and to hold, to be with etc.

I don't think it's just men or just women who believe their partners are trash. Or who believe their partner isn't in the top percentile. If people are happy, and not lying. Then they'd think their partner is in the 20, I'd imagine ?

Kind of sad if they don't. But that doesn't get discussed very often. I mean how often do you see someone describing their husband or wife as "subpar"? Or "in the 80% - which means they're a loser"? Even if their partner might seem like a loser from the outside.

I think there's a lot of conflict of ideas there just to start with.... I also think it's pretty mean to tell a woman "well the man that you chose to love is in the bottom 80% of men". Maybe that man is great, actually! It's very cruel to men. And to women when the opposite is asserted. Like, "your husband must be shit" serves no purpose but to hurt, I think.

[–]DietTyronePurple Pill Man (Red Leaning) 3 points4 points5 points 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The overall point is that in order for the claims to be misogynistic, they need to come from a place of prejudice against woman. Stating something you believe to be objectively true because there's evidence to support it isn't really motivated by prejudice, so not really misogyny.

I also think it's pretty mean to tell a woman "well the man that you chose to love is in the bottom 80% of men". Maybe that man is great, actually!

That's not really the point of 80/20. It's mostly to help men understand the dating market better and why they see what they see. If we accept the idea that women find a minority of men attractive, and we also accept that there are shared traits women find attractive such as being tall, then the logical conclusion is that certain men who are tall, muscular, etc, are going to fall into that top 20 for a wide range of women in general. This will lead to a situation where you'll see men in that 20 percent playing the field and having situationships or hookups with various women because women are going to more often than not gravitate to men who have multiple traits women in general find attractive.

This isn't to dunk on men and it's not like it's not possible for them to have an interest in traits that aren't considered conventionally attractive, like a guy with a dad bod. But it helps guys better understand why dating is so difficult nowadays due to the competition and just the fact that women on numerous occasions admit that they just don't find the majority of guys they encounter to be all that attractive.

[–]James_M_CroftRed Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 6 months ago (41 children) | Copy Link

I forgot who said it but a TRP here once said:

"Blue pills can also improve, but because RP men improve to get women, are better at it than the alternative".

TRP whole goal is to maximize results while minimizing risks and costs.

For that, TRP includes along other advice, talking about how women are, how they react to stimuli and how they think, or as you so eloquently called it "misogyny". Reality is misogynistic. Deal with it. If you want us to change, just change how women are. Good luck with that tho.

That is why so many TRP like me, who are in their 40s and not at their peak can still can get some 20 something girl while younger BP guys who do go to gym, socialize and eat well can't. We are better than them with women. We understand women better. You could say that we are not perfect. I agree we are far from perfect. But we are better than the alternatives.

[–]autistic_cool_kidSelf-made Chad 38yo man | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed -5 points-4 points-3 points 6 months ago (40 children) | Copy Link

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[–]PrecisionHatPurple Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago (16 children) | Copy Link

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[–]James_M_CroftRed Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago* (18 children) | Copy Link

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[–]autistic_cool_kidSelf-made Chad 38yo man | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (13 children) | Copy Link

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[–]autistic_cool_kidSelf-made Chad 38yo man | Buddhistpilled & Autismaxxed 0 points1 point2 points 6 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]James_M_Croft1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kid1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I'm just a french guy who was heavily into the local PUA movement for a couple years.

And it gave me some success I won't deny it. The bar was low, I started with negative rizz.

But when I left all of that behind to chase new worldviews, i went from moderate success to absolute chad.

From my perspective you stayed stuck in the worldview i had 20 years ago so you probably have some success but you could have much more, and maybe a more authentic life. I couldnt to back to my PUA days, it felt like I was playing the role of someone else.

Well, that's only based on my experience, but my experience is all I can base myself on.

Maybe I'm a statistical anomaly. Doesn't mean I'm wrong.

Maybe also you're neurotypical and I'm autistic so we have a different approach to that topic. I feel like light manipulation is normal and expected amongst neurotypicals, but that's a terrible idea for an autistic person who wants genuine connections.

[–]James_M_Croft1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]autistic_cool_kid1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

But please drop the propaganda and the false claims.

Again with the RedPill "what contradicts my worldview is fake propaganda"

How can i be 21 if I was in the PUA world 20 years ago

Me using genZ slang is a weird way to validate your beliefs

I am against autistic people like you ever engaging with TRP, PUA or any such groups

Lol a ton of PUA are autistic

Being neurotypical is a requirement for partying

Looool bro i have a party tomorrow at 1pm

Autistics should just date one another and leave the fucking, clubbing and partying to people who can actually know how to do it properly. If the loud music and the touchy people wasn't obvious enough, this life is not for you. It is for us.

Me and my autistic friends really enjoy clubbing, you dont know what you're talking about

I agree that autistic people should generally date other autistic people if they want to be happy

[–]James_M_Croft1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Commercial-Formal272Red Pill Man 9 points10 points11 points 6 months ago (12 children) | Copy Link

The "red pill" is just a catalog of "impolite" knowledge, with some advice on how to use that information pragmatically for whatever purpose the reader/listener wants. It's organizing and uncensoring the information that already existed, but was usually learned through experience, observation, or implication, but rarely clearly stated or taught.

For guys who want to have a long term relationship, the red pill teaches how to maximize the odds of not getting someone incompatible, and methods to maintain the relationship once you have it. This is where much of the "whore hating" accusations come from.

For the guys who just want sex, the red pill teaches how to increase your attractiveness so you can attract a sexual partner, and what risks can be expected so they can avoid common dangers and traps. This is where accusations of hypocrisy usually originate.

For guys who prioritize peace and stability in their life, the red pill advises they avoid women, since a certain level of drama and risk is inherent when dating or marrying, and a relationship shouldn't be entered unless you are ready and willing to work through the complications it brings.

It's the same basic information, but with different applications based on the goals of the user.

[+]ThunderDUBlue Pill Woman[S] -6 points-5 points-4 points 6 months ago (11 children) | Copy Link

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Alright, so this study is littered with holes. It´s also 30 years old, which for a study regarding something as evolving as "dating" is not a good sign. I mean just look at this average as a single example "..women who begin sexual activity at age 23-24 will have, on average, 2.7 sexual partners during their lives." but I will ignore this fact in order to make this a bit more engaging.

Like mentioned, the majority of these charts are useless, "women who have more sex are more likely to ever had an STD", wow, absolutely mind-blowing. Additionally, there are major holes in these charts the author ignores and has no justification for, for instance how the numbers aren´t always predictable. I could demonstrate that later if you´re interested.

For now I´ll stick to two major points of contention from our previous discussion instead.

1: "This chart measures the percentage of sexually active women over age 30 who were in stable marriages. A woman was defined as being in a stable marriage if she was married at the time of the survey and had been in that same marriage for more than five years. Girls who began sexual activity in their teens clearly have greater difficulty in forming and sustaining stable marriages."

- The issue with this is "A woman was defined as being in a stable marriage if she was married at the time of the survey and had been in that same marriage for more than five years.", the author doesn´t explain why this particular standard/measurement is chosen, possibly because it would go against his interest. So let me ask you on a personal level, do you think this sets a good rule? "Stable marriage = what´s currently longer than 5 years"? The first obvious counter is, are there no stable marriages that haven´t passed 5 years yet? The second is, does length = stability (framed as GOOD stability, aka something positive)? Because with the use of a little bit of life experience, I think it´s safe to say, there´s not a shortage of shitty marriages out there where most outside people would go "sigh.. why are you guys still together?", EVEN more so 30 years ago probably.

2: "Beginning sexual activity at an older age is linked to higher levels of personal happiness. More than half the women who began sexual activity at ages 21 or 22 report they are currently “very happy” in life. By contrast, only a third of women who began sexual activity at ages 13 or 14 report they are currently “very happy.”

- Here we run into similar issues, albeit more philosophical. More important question is, should we give credence to what people self report? Two people of the "same level of happiness" could give different answers simply because of who they are and how they interpreter the question. We also know people of higher intelligence generally self report lower sense of happiness than less intelligent people. So, wouldn´t it be wiser (yes it would rhetorical question) to measure other things, such as the decisions people make? There are a thousand different ways we could propose here, like "well if we had a magical machine we could measure peoples stress levels or something", but we know those things are also depending on genetics, so no that wouldn´t work. "Ok, but what if we looked at how often people smile/laugh?" - "We should look at how other people report them to appear physically!", "How long do people live!", I´m going to stop here, but the point is made, you can hopefully poke the holes in these yourself, because the larger point I´m making is, measuring happiness is something very complex, and my issue is how the author here just has the audacity to do so using nothing but a useless, ambiguous, laughable, outdated "self report".

[–]CelicnisGhost1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

The self report was not outdated, given the study is from 2003. It was very much not dated at the point the study was made.

Furthermore I disagree that the study being "old" is relevant. "Dating" does not evolve in 24 years more than it has for tens of thousands of years ago.

Like mentioned, the majority of these charts are useless, "women who have more sex are more likely to ever had an STD", wow, absolutely mind-blowing.

I disagree that the majority is useless. Went through them all and it's something like 12/13 of "non-useless" charts vs 4 "useless".

Additionally, there are major holes in these charts the author ignores and has no justification for, for instance how the numbers aren´t always predictable. I could demonstrate that later if you´re interested.

I am very interested.

As for your first point of contention, I do agree that it is not the best defined. I don't agree that it makes that part of the study useless, but I wonder how would you define it better?

Similarly, I also agree that "happiness" is... ambiguous, but this was a study of 10000 women. Such a high amount of participants smooths out the

Two people of the "same level of happiness" could give different answers simply because of who they are and how they interpreter the question. We also know people of higher intelligence generally self report lower sense of happiness than less intelligent people.

part you are having issues with. Unless you mean to imply that the women that started having sex earlier are consistently more intelligent than the women that did so later?

[–]Otjahe1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Just fyi, I don’t know how to respond to each of your sections neatly like you’re doing so I hope you can still follow hehe.

Read the introduction, it’s using a survey from 1995 = 30 years ago.

These are absolutely huge in terms of change. You are on Reddit yes? Same place you’ll find hundreds of posts regarding "modern dating is done for" each day? Not to mention, women being more promiscuous 30 years ago carried way more risks and social pushback in comparison to current day. Potentially altering sample group too.

Well if you disagree the vast majority are useless, explain why. They’re useless because they’re making obvious correlations, "more sex = more STD’s" - "more sex = more risk of abortion" - "more sex = more partners". Pretty mind numbing if you ask me, but go ahead.

Let’s stay on the first two topics for now, don’t think I’ll need the other one but I’ll safe it for you, no worries.

Well so if you agree with my points there, how come you don’t agree with my conclusion that it renders it useless? That’s the point of disagreement you should be showcasing here. Whether I can or can’t think of better rules here isn’t relevant because I’m not the one making the study, I’m analyzing it.

It’s like: "I know god is real." - "oh, how so?" - "what else created the universe?" - "well I don’t know, but I don’t think it logically follows that it must’ve been a god" - "but if you can’t come up with another idea yourself then I’m right by default!".

I’m not making the initial claim, I’m disagreeing with it.

Well, that’s an interesting question and you know what, it wouldn’t actually surprise me. We know the more educated and liberated a society is, the more sex people tend to have. Haven’t looked it up though, true or not I don’t really need it to make the point regarding the inefficiencies of using self-reporting when it comes to something with such neurological ambiguity of this magnitude.

[–]CelicnisGhost1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Just fyi, I don’t know how to respond to each of your sections neatly like you’re doing so I hope you can still follow hehe.

Read the introduction, it’s using a survey from 1995 = 30 years ago.

I know. The study itself is from 2003, so at that point it was a survey from 8 years ago.

"more sex = more STD’s" - "more sex = more risk of abortion" - "more sex = more partners"

Why does more sex equal more STD's? Can you not just stick with one partner, reducing the risk of "more" STD's?

You're not really representing the charts as they are through these examples.

Well so if you agree with my points there, how come you don’t agree with my conclusion that it renders it useless?

I think it lowers the impact of the study, but not eliminate it entirely. A pattern was established, and you can extrapolate that similar outcomes would be achieved with a more "fool-proof" definition of a "successful marriage".

Well, that’s an interesting question and you know what, it wouldn’t actually surprise me.

I'm just gonna avoid this part because we've had a pleasant interaction so far and I don't want it to turn sour. But I completely disagree.

But rather than focusing on that, can we go back to my claim that even if self-reporting happiness can be ambiguous, among a study of 10000 participants statistically it should even out?

[–]Otjahe1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CelicnisGhost1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Obviously I’m saying what the numbers are based on, are from 30 years ago.

Yes, and I am saying that female psychology over the last 30 years does not win out over thousands of years of evolution.

Obviously when I’m giving the example "more sex = more probability of STDs", I’m talking about more partners.

Why does that make the chart useless even if it's obvious? Even if everything in that study was "obvious", that still doesn't make it untrue.

Personally I’d like to hear why you disagree.

Because to me it is "obvious" that people who have sex with many partners would on average be less intelligent rather than more.

What should even out?

People reading the question ambiguously and replying in ways that indicate higher or lesser values than the "objective happiness" if I can call it that. So after 10000 participants we would get a pretty decent evaluation on what the average person considers "happiness" and see that the more partners you have the further away you are from it.

[–]Otjahe1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

We’re not just simply talking about biology here, but I’d agree it’s more about cultural aspects. Men have insecurities about women’s sexuality, and that’s it. If you want to make the claim now that there is a biological incentive against women having sex, then make it. Show the evidence for it. Because I can easily counter that with a lot of evidence showing historic humans being just as - if not more sexually liberated in a tribal settings.

Let me flip the question around, what makes the painfully obvious statements valuable in this context?

Why would they be less intelligent? So far you keep making a lot of statements but you skip the only thing I’m interested in, which is the motivation.

Again what do you base that opinion on? I’ve explained my motivations behind why I think those kinds of self reports are useless, so explain to me why they’re not. Not that they simply are, but why/how.

[–]CelicnisGhost1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Men have insecurities about women’s sexuality and that’s it.

Oh boy, here we go. This canned line again.

I'm sure it's insecurity for some.

I doubt it's the majority, or even a quarter of the cases.

Have you considered it's just plain gross?

I will only marry a virgin, because it's fucking disgusting to me to imagine another man doing anything to my wife.

Her fucking someone else (my supposed "insecurity" as per you) would be a benefit to me if anything, if we ignore the grossness aspect, because then I could verifiably prove how awesome I am at fucking her, compared to her only being pretty certain of it.

and that’s it

I dunno man, for someone so up in arms about evidence, you sure didn't show any of that here.

Let me flip the question around, what makes the painfully obvious statements valuable in this context (study)?

Because the "painfully obvious" statements still show negatives, which the study helps men make a conscious decision to avoid if they want to do so.

Why would they be less intelligent? So far you keep making a lot of statements but you skip the only thing I’m interested in, which is the motivation.

As per the "painfully obvious" statements, a lot of sex with other people carries a lot of risk. Seems to me someone intelligent would deem those risks not worth it for the sake of pure hedonism.

Again what do you base that opinion on? I’ve explained my motivations behind why I think those kinds of self reports are useless, so explain to me why they’re not. Not that they simply are, but why/how.

I'm pretty sure I explained the why/how. Even if individually they can get skewed to the point of uselessness, if we get ten thousand freaking people to answer the same question, we're going to get a statistical average of what people consider "happiness", and derive conclusions from that.

[–]Otjahe1 point 6 months ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Lol exactly, your reasoning is "gross"… What could that possibly be other than a personal insecurity towards something? Something makes you uncomfortable, unsure, repulsed, insecure.

I can only speak for myself, and I have never understood the mental obsession a man has about another hypothetical man of his partners past so I can’t relate. But I will say I’m curious about why you are so obsessed with other men like that? You wanna know how many times I think about other men in a sexual lighting? Zero times. And with risk of this sounding like an insult, if I were to guess, a man reasoning behind thinking about other men having sex is probably because the man in question either is a bad performer when it comes to sex, has a small penis, has some sort of humiliation kink or hates men or even admires them sexually - point being whatever the reason, it becomes a personal insecurity where the man can’t help but to compare himself. I’ve always been 100% confident, so my brain just doesn’t do that.

Well then we just disagree that those charts are useful. Personally I’d say you have a very low bar of what you deem as good research. Because if I were to look at a study that’s about people who work as electricians, charts showing "they are more likely to carry tools with them" - "they are more likely to spend time around electrical equipment" - "they are more likely to be exposed to shockwaves" etc is just taking up space in a research paper. Nobody should need (maybe you do I guess) that kind of information.

Why is hedonism bad? And are you religious?

Yea I get that, I just don’t think it matters still. I can just take me as an example, during different times in my life I would’ve self reported my own happiness differently, and looking back, I know most of those times it probably wouldn’t have been accurate. Like I’ve said, happiness is a too much of a complex and nuanced concept to accurately measure using self reporting. Additionally, I would also suspect people who have more sex would answer differently in these self reports today in comparison to 30 years ago.

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What is the formula to abuse a woman with no consequences? Why does “personality” or “being a good person” not matter to women?

1) be equal or better looking than her with lots of masculine traits. This is highly important to get her initially pregnant so that she’s trapped (she doesn’t believe in abortion)

2) make her financially dependent on you and live in a nice big house with good outward appearances

3) form a social structure that makes divorce a sin against religion

4) have kids that force her to commit to you for support

5) win fights against most people who work a trade pretty easily to show off more “masculine” traits. Be someone who can intimidate people by accident without trying

6) cut off her “annoying” social network to remove support from others

7) have charismatic outward appearances to customers and the network you build your business with. Superficial charm is useful for getting initial leverage over people

8) use family as free labor for your business

9) network with people who own bars to get “status” with them

^ this is probably about the framework that most red pillers base their understanding of relationships off of, and similar to what I grew up with. She divorced him when he cheated on her after I moved away for college

Question: Why do women always fall for this?

Answer: The average dumbass woman skips birth control with guys they’re attracted to pretty easily, even when it’s an incredibly bad idea. Ignoring my mother, in modern times it’s crazy how many women don’t care about condoms with guys they just met off fucking online dating

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This is permanently downplayed and ignored on this subreddit (which I can't help but feel like ironically highlights its significance), but there is a substantial part of human culture today - I would call it mainstream progressivism - with serious cultural reach and impact that disagrees with fundamental tenets of redpill, such as men being hornier than women, biological differences being noteworthy, and the amount of suffering and hardship that is unique (or far more common) to human males.

That being said, I don't identify as redpill because it also does have a tendency of misogyny or at least conservatism. But I absolutely think that there is some truth to this "hidden truth opposing the mainstream" element to it, and that its current form is in fact reactive to real and very prevalent cultural narratives, whether people here like to admit that or not.

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[–]AlarmingArm9919No Pill Man 1 point2 points3 points 6 months ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Standard-Banana6469Red Pill Man [score hidden] 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Odd-Yoghurt1869Mostly Red Pill Man -1 points0 points1 point 6 months ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	What's the difference between the red pill and misogyny?
Author	ThunderDU
Upvotes	0
Comments	430
Date	February 5, 2026 8:06 AM UTC (6 months ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1qwfhqb/whats_the_difference_between_the_red_pill_and/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/whats-the-difference-between-the-red-pill-and.1572761 https://theredarchive.com/post/1572761

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