I am fucking tired of being perceived as a pervert for being attracted to women and their bodies

saybrown · 2011-08-21T11:06:28+00:00

Pervert (n): A person whose sexual behavior is regarded as abnormal and unacceptable.

It is nonsense to claim that an entire gender consists of perverts. If the majority of people share a characteristic (having a sex drive, enjoying looking at pretty things) then that characteristic cannot be described as abnormal.

BinaryShadow · 2011-08-21T12:24:49+00:00

Why am I considered a pervert and disgusting for this?

Because the target of your gazing didn't find you attractive.

2011-08-21T16:51:30+00:00

Zip your pants up, dad.

poop_dawg · 2011-08-21T12:08:53+00:00

Because male sexuality is viewed as something perverted and ugly in western society. Just compare peoples reaction to a man and a woman buying a sex toy. The guy is a creepy pervert while the woman is an empowered independent person.

LadyDarkKitten · 2011-08-21T19:59:35+00:00

I take it as a compliment, when I was a teen trying to hide under baggy clothes this was not the case. Once I stopped trying to hide and started wearing clothes that fit it became clear that when I got looked at twice it was a compliment. He/she was looking at me and smiling because I was something worth looking at. I still get the creeps when some one I'm not attracted to is ogling me but I don't act like a bitch because of it. I shrug it off and move on.

2011-08-21T19:46:00+00:00

1) when was the last time that someone actually called you out for being a pervert/disgusting?

2) Invest in sunglasses

3) If you have a mustache, shave it...

DuchessofYanks · 2011-08-21T15:47:59+00:00

As a woman, I think it's really contradictory when women, who are showing off their bodies, get all hissy when men look at them. Seriously girls? You bought that low cut top to show off your cleavage because you want men to be attracted to you. Now by no means am I saying it's ok to sexually assault them. Look but don't touch.

It's the same with make up. It's purpose is for the wearer to look more appealing and attractive. Who doesn't want to look good? But don't get mad when someone points out that you're attractive, that's just snobby.

ManThoughts · 2011-08-21T14:29:00+00:00

Women want sexual attention from men who are attractive. The "perverts" are the men who have the temerity to not be subjectively attractive.

Remember, if you want to avoid being perceived as a creep : 1. Be handsome. 2. Be attractive. 3. Don't be unattractive.

Edit: Should add, you are probably a fine-looking gentleman. We're dealing with female expectations the size of a tank.

Baronvonyiffington · 2011-08-21T13:18:10+00:00

Because society hates penises.

This shows up a lot in gay rights discussions, too. One I remember was from the documentary Fagbug - several of the people interviewed were against gay men because the Bible says it's bad, but lesbians are okay because "it's hot."

These people were dead serious, too.

masonmason22 · 2011-08-21T23:28:05+00:00

I really hate it when there is writing on a woman's shirt that goes across the breasts, so you try and read this writing, then you look like you're staring at their breasts.

altmehere · 2011-08-21T17:09:20+00:00

I am fucking tired of being perceived as a pervert (/deviant) for being attracted to men and their bodies.

Welcome to being male in our times.

karenzae · 2011-08-21T14:05:08+00:00

Quickly checking someone out is totally normal and is something women do too. I don't think most women would consider you a pervert for doing so, however, there are other, less respectful behaviours (e.g. groping a woman on a crowded train, taking a photo of a woman with a cameraphone, catcalls), that happen in a similar public context that I think make a lot of women uncomfortable. I think sometimes, after women experience genuine harrassment, they become more wary of all remotely sexual reactions to their body. In a totally fair world, all women would understand that a vast, vast majority of men do not think they are sex objects and that being looked at is not the same thing as being violated. Unfortunately, there can sometimes be a fine line (how long is too long to stare at a woman?) between acceptable and unacceptable, making women blur these different kinds of behaviour together when expressing frustration.

silverdrake3 · 2011-08-21T15:55:18+00:00

Female here.

I make a point to let people know that they're free to look (makes me feel very pretty indeed), but they can't touch. I extend the same courtesy.

On a kind-of tangential path, I am so glad that the frat houses at my campus dress their new recruits up in cute sailor suits. Oooh, boy.

Skyrmir · 2011-08-21T16:15:11+00:00

It's probably because you're driving a van that says 'Free Candy' on the side.

Not judging, just sayin.

poop_dawg · 2011-08-21T22:15:39+00:00

A Guy will be out at a club or a bar, right? And a girl walks by and man she looks good. Not “Good” in that classical way, I’m talkin “good” like she got half her ass hangin’ out her skirt her boobs are poppin out the top of her turtle neck and shit! And you’re with your buddies, got a couple drinks in you, and you wanna talk to her but it might not come out right, you don’t know.

Boy: “DAMN LOOK AT THEM TITTIES!!”

And she gets mad at you!

Girl: “OH! Wait a minute! WAIT A MINUTE! Just because I’m dressed this way does NOT make me a whore!!”

Which is true, gentlemen that is true! Just because she’s dressed a certain way doesn’t mean she is a certain way, but ladies you must understand that that is fuckin confusing!

Now that would be like me, Dave Chappelle the comedian, walking around dressed in a cop uniform. Someone might run up on me like “Oh thank God! Officer help us! Over here! Help us!” And I respond “What!? just because I’m dressed this way does NOT make me a a police officer!”

So lady, ok, you’re not a whore, ok… but you are wearing a whore’s uniform.

-DAVE CHAPPELLE

Miathermopolis · 2011-08-21T20:02:22+00:00

It's hard to explain what it is like to be stared at, consistently, by men, as you grow older and into your female form.

I don't mean to say it's right for women to be so mean, as they sometimes are, when men are just looking. But you have to remember, that happens to certain women constantly, and it really gets to the point where you wonder if anyone even takes you seriously. I have a hard time getting close to guys because a lot of the time their intentions are written all over their face. Sometimes I'd like a guy to notice me and not my body, you know? And yes of course there are exceptions, a lot of women go out dressed really scantily and then act appalled when they get attention, which I agree, is a bit silly. Like hello, they're genetically wired (most of them! haha) to want to look at you.

You may not have to deal with women sizing you up every time you go out, and if you did, you might not find it as exciting as you think.

Just a thought.

P.S. I don't think you're a perv. I just think you should try thinking about it from that perspective. She doesn't know you, you're just another guy, checking her out.

ignatiusloyola · 2011-08-21T15:42:07+00:00

I think this post I made might be relevant.

http://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jhoji/is_it_fair_that_its_socially_acceptable_to_call_a/c2ceg4a

It is an argument I made about why it isn't wrong for men to be attracted to the physical nature of women, and how such a thing does not reflect on the intelligence or objectivity of the male.

2011-08-22T02:36:38+00:00

You're only a pervert if she's not attracted to you.

2011-08-22T16:00:05+00:00

a bloo bloo blooooo

pickupstix321 · 2011-08-21T17:27:03+00:00

You aren't a pervert for being attracted. You're a pervert for staring. You're also a liar. No one is going to call you a pervert for a "slight look."

Dohboy632 · 2011-08-21T17:34:44+00:00

Just yesterday I commented I thought a girl had pretty eyes. My friend looked at me like I said I had sex with a dead squirrel.

liah · 2011-08-21T11:22:39+00:00

What annoys me even more is that even on reddit if males comment on the attractiveness of females when they post their pics, the white knights and feminists jump down your throat for having the nerve to comment on someone's attractiveness.

littlebabycheeses · 2011-08-21T11:42:46+00:00

That tells a lot about how double standards have settled in our modern times.

She can go out with a dress made of thin air and morning dew. It's her body, she's got the right of doing whatever she wants with it.

But, dare you, don't look at her. What are you looking at?, she will think, sincerely, to herself. She doesn't even realise, society told her that you are the pervert for watching her almost naked body, and she believes that.

My policy is: you're showing it, that means you want me to watch. Don't want me watching? Cover yourself.

cl3ft · 2011-08-22T00:09:32+00:00

The only time you will be labelled a pervert is if your attention goes above and beyond the attention attracted by the majority of men. Most men will take a glance, Or a look, or a look and a smile. And a enormous majority of people will think this is normal. If you are getting called out as being a pervert for your behaviour you are acting outside societal norms. There are exceptions of course as there are for all human interactions but they are rare.

Mateoheo · 2011-08-21T15:14:12+00:00

Peek without peeking

RedBarclay · 2011-08-21T18:23:05+00:00

Even as a woman I also get this feeling when checking someone out in passing. I used to work as a clothes buyer and it's hard to stop looking at labels and recognizing brands, but all it looks like to them is leery eyes and ass checks.

Thank goodness for sunglasses.

fondueguy · 2011-08-21T20:13:51+00:00

So what if I have a slight second look at a woman wearing short shorts and a small top exposing most of her breasts? I can't help but be sexually aroused by women wearing next to nothing.

The very problem is in the form of perspective. If its perverted to stare at breast why is it fine to show everyone your breast including children and people who are NOT attracted to the woman.

This is just an example seeing women's need to feel sexy as unquestionably justified and not dangerous. We selectively view women as sexually empowered when she is getting what she wants but as a victim when the nerdy/unpleasant guy distracts her...

Just imagine if a man were to wear next to nothing and notice how we would see this as deviant.

kragshot · 2011-08-22T08:56:39+00:00

The demonization of male sexuality is one of the vehicles that was carried over from "Second Wave" feminism, into the radical arm of the "Third Wave."

Note...I am not saying that "Third Wave feminists" follow this, but there is a significant group of feminists who identify as "Third Wave" who follow this viewpoint and they are the ones dictating policy regarding the law and social convention.

These are not the feminists we have to target to effect change. The ones we have to target are the moderate ones who sit on the sidelines and do nothing while their misandric "sisters" wreak havoc on men. We have to push, prod, and shame them into decrying and disowning those feminists that buy into the demonization and destruction of male sexuality.

We have to make those moderate and gender equality feminists look in the mirror and see the ugly truth about the movement that they support. We have to show them that their movement isn't about men and women being equal and hasn't been for quite some time.

ThePigman · 2011-08-22T01:29:21+00:00

"Why am I considered a pervert and disgusting for this?"

Because you are a man. If the sexes were reversed it would be considered an act of empowerment.

ENTP · 2011-08-21T15:31:50+00:00

well to be honest most are hypocrites about it. and it makes me angry. they wear small, tight clothing because they want the attention. they wan't to expose their bodies. as soon as you stare at them they are like, "omg - perv!" even if they don't want attention they know it will attract it.

most of us were raised to be humble, to not attract attentions to ourselves and with slut shaming. so they were revealing clothing and pretend not to like the attention because admitting it will make you look like a "slut."

I love to wear short shorts, tight shirts, and I do like the attention. I work out, I eat right...except for now, i'm stuffing myself with nutella toast for breakfast yummy! anyways - I have a nice body, and I do want to show it off sometimes, I'm confident! I want people to stare, I'm young, things are where they should be! In 20-30 more years my body is gonna be all saggy and wrinkly so...I'm not afraid to admit I want attention from the opposite sex. we all do. but admitting that gets you called a "slut."

SnakeJG · 2011-08-21T16:03:08+00:00

I think you must be doing something wrong if you are constantly being perceived as a pervert. Perhaps your taking a peek at women is a lot less subtle than you think it is, and a lot closer to staring them down.

Also, if you are looking at them long enough to be sexually aroused by them, you are probably doing more than just taking a peek.

I look at a lot of women, even while in the presence of my wife and female friends, and I don't feel like I'm perceived as being a pervert.

rockidol · 2011-08-22T02:29:37+00:00

Because some people in our society still have a very prudish outlook on sex.

A lot of those same people will also call a woman a pervert for masturbating so it's not entirely against men.

2011-08-22T06:58:31+00:00

The only times I've ever had problems with men glancing at my chest is when I was in a costume for a school play (where my costume choices were made for me by another woman, my adult director) and when the men doing the glancing were in a position of authority over me, like a teacher.

In the case of the play, I was forced to wear a strapless top, and my extremely short costar looked down my dress. I understand why he did it, but I wish he hadn't done it visibly. I didn't want to wear that dress, but I wanted to sing. I didn't know when I signed up that it would involve exposing that much of myself.

When I wore a nearly identical dress at a dance later that year, I was glad to see some of the guys who usually acted like I was disgusting giving me a glance. It was all about being willing to wear it.

In the case of the teacher, I had no exposed cleavage wearing a very high v-neck, I was 14 years old, and he was 40. It creeped me out, and I wished he hadn't done it, but he never made any real overtures for me and I shrugged it off as him being socially awkward. In fact he was one of my favorite teachers, mostly because if I could get him at a lull in class we could talk about classic sci-fi.

I just feel sorry for some of the girls he checked out who had real problems with this. Some of them had been sexually assaulted by one of our teachers in elementary (I mean like, police were involved, I had to give a statement when I was 11 kind of stuff), and some of them were dressed even more conservatively than I did. These girls got to see a pattern of men putting their sexuality over their minds/qualifications/work. It warped some of their worldviews, I think.

A woman who dresses in an exposed way willfully and then acts outraged when men look at her is a jerk.

A young girl who is confused about the meaning of dressing sexy and then acts outraged when her teachers check her out deserves a pass and someone talking to her about good and bad attention.

A woman who is not dressed sexy and gets checked out in a more disrespectful way (lengthy staring, touching, vulgar propositions) has every right to call the guy a jerk. Pervert, well, no, not really.

A woman who is dressed in any way and is checked out in a very disrespectful way has a right to call the guy a jerk.

TLDR some women have a right to be creeped out/mad. These women are young and confused, not actually dressed sexy, or being insulted.

brunt2 · 2011-08-21T13:22:54+00:00

You aren't. Keep telling yourself that. You are entitled to look at what you please and when you please it

elebrin · 2011-08-21T18:31:19+00:00

Meh, I look. I'm not looking for a women so if I am deemed creepy I don't give a fuck. I am happy being creepy.

2011-08-21T20:23:43+00:00

What hasn't been mentioned is controlling your frame here. They can attempt to apply whatever label they like, but if you refuse it, the tables in most cases instantly turn.

MissCait · 2011-08-21T19:54:14+00:00

Feminists has trained society to view male sexuality as barbaric.

I am attracted to men and their bodies, so I guess that means I'm one.

mistyriver · 2011-08-21T20:28:25+00:00

English-speaking North America, in all honesty, is a very chaste society. I find it so odd that people believe that our two countries here are "sexually liberated." The values that people talk about all the time all lead back to one place - serial monogamy - and even there - there's so much social drama about breaking up with people, and implied commitment and whatever else.

Young people tend to believe that everybody thinks like them, when it comes to sex, and has the same promiscuous aspirations - but it really isn't the case. It can be very daunting when they try hook up with people they like, and they receive nothing but rebuffs.

Promiscuity is a lifestyle that is generally accepted and even applauded sometimes when people see their neighbors doing it - but it's a minority group of folks who do it.

In regards to your question - there ought really to be nothing wrong with sizing up anybody's body - just like you would look at a flower and examine all the different parts of it. However, I think it's important that, for our own sake, we men learn to separate the ideas of affection, appreciation of beauty or poise, wistfulness, desire to commit yourself to somebody and all these other things off in our minds - understanding them separately from the concept of sexuality. Just because you have a boner at the moment and are fond of someone, shouldn't automatically lead you to conclude that you are sexually attracted to them.

tyrghast · 2011-08-21T21:23:38+00:00

If they don't want to be looked at, don't wear anything provocative.

2011-08-21T17:51:08+00:00

Its all Darwin's fault. But seriously being interested in that is fucking biology

rebelcanuck · 2011-08-21T19:22:18+00:00

This was the first thought I had when I was younger that started pointing me towards advocating for Men's Rights.

geodebug · 2011-08-21T19:41:48+00:00

It's not the looking, it's because you are standing there with an obvious boner.

ConfirmedCynic · 2011-08-21T20:03:30+00:00

"Why am I considered a pervert and disgusting for this?"

You're guilty of peeking while not being attractive.

Make yourself attractive and suddenly you're just flirting.

runamok · 2011-08-21T20:29:54+00:00

Possibly because they don't consider you attractive enough. Many women appreciate that you are attracted to them as long as you are respectful. Younger women not so much in my experience.

2011-08-21T20:31:14+00:00

You aren't a pervert for looking at a woman in skimpy clothes and finding her attractive. Women who say stuff like that are just plain stupid, to be honest. They are. You can't go out in something that sexualizes you and is designed to make men look and admire, and then call them perverted for looking and admiring!

Why am I considered a pervert and disgusting for this?

Because the woman you looked at didn't find you attractive. That's all. What she's saying says more about her and her own foolishness and ego than it does about you.

2011-08-22T01:07:24+00:00

You are NOT a pervert! YOU are an aficionado of great women! Don't let others rag on you because you have better taste than them. There will always be those who feel inferior(because they are) to you or what you have deemed worthy of a long stare. Do not let this deter you from being an aficionado of great women, but excel and become better.

KMFCM · 2011-08-22T16:39:02+00:00

I got really paranoid about this sort of thing and just leave when one of those girls shows up.

(I know, if you fear them they win)

Unenjoyed · 2011-08-21T18:13:20+00:00

Maybe they you look like a perv to them because of the way you're licking your lips while fumbling around in your front pockets.

Maschalismos · 2011-08-21T21:44:38+00:00

Unfortunately, It all depends on you attractiveness, not your behavior. If you are a handsome dude, the woman would welcome the attention your glance represents. If you are ugly, ANY attention from you is unwelcome; the only way to avoid creepdom is to look at the floor until she leaves.

That has been my experience at least.

TicTokCroc · 2011-08-21T21:34:31+00:00

Maybe it has something to do with you being "sexually aroused" (aka walking around with a boner sticking out of your pants) while you're "just taking a peek". Women love being checked out so if they think you're a disgusting pervert it's probably because you are.

MuForceShoelace · 2011-08-21T12:24:27+00:00

The double standard is that men are able to walk around wearing few cloths and no one takes that as license to treat them as sexual objects that owe them a show. Note that you aren't being stopped from looking and your objection is that you wish to control their thoughts about you looking. That they need to submit more perfectly to you looking at their bodies instead of just physically letting you.

KMFCM · 2011-08-22T02:39:50+00:00

There aren't enough elevators in this discussion.

Revorob · 2011-08-22T09:07:14+00:00

My $0.02 worth is........

a) Who gives a fuck what women think?

b) If women wan to walk around in skimpy attire purely to gain male attention, why are they not considered to be exibitionists?

2011-08-21T22:36:58+00:00

You're all just a bunch of whiny babies.

2011-08-21T17:33:38+00:00

I stare. I seem to get away with it. Apparently, people who observe others disregarding social mores assume they are powerful. So, guess that all works out.

2011-08-21T17:36:44+00:00

If your body is half exposed, Naturally something other then men's gazes rise.

Nwsamurai · 2011-08-22T07:55:54+00:00

Who is calling you a pervert for this?

I find it hard to believe that if you are being as subtle as you claim that anyone would try to shame you.

Octopuscabbage · 2011-08-21T17:53:49+00:00

I hate this. I feel that you should dress like you want to be treated. If you don't want men to look at you, wear clothes that do not reveal much.

Title	I am fucking tired of being perceived as a pervert for being attracted to women and their bodies
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	218
Comments	325
Date	August 21, 2011 10:58 AM UTC (14 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/jpklt/i_am_fucking_tired_of_being_perceived_as_a/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/i-am-fucking-tired-of-being-perceived-as-a-pervert.1035646 https://theredarchive.com/post/1035646

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