Talking to a feminist friend, she said she thinks that MRAs are a hate group and likened them to the KKK

DerpaNerb · 2013-06-23T17:42:11+00:00

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matt_512 · 2013-06-23T16:31:56+00:00

Yeah, that's actually typical.

ExpendableOne · 2013-06-23T16:47:27+00:00

Fairly standard feminist response. If you are remotely interested in men's issues then you clearly hate women.

ExPwner · 2013-06-23T16:27:50+00:00

With hypocrisy, all you have to do is flip things around.

"So if you want equal rights for men, you're part of a hate group? That means wanting equal rights for women makes you part of a hate group, right?"

"No, no, MRA's are specifically a hate group."

"Oh, so that means FRA's are a hate group as well, right?"

"No, they're different..."

"But both campaign for each sex's equal rights, right? So if one's a hate group, the other must be a hate group, right?"

You can do that with any sexist subject, just flip genders around to make your point.

typhonblue · 2013-06-23T18:25:03+00:00

What do you honestly expect from a belief system whose adherents are actively erasing male victims of rape by women?

Do you really think feminists are reasonable?

There seem to be two kinds of feminist. The ones who push rape apologia(and other ways of marginalizing male victims) and the ones who are more concerned that people believe "not all feminists are like that" then what feminists are actually doing to hurt men and boys(and women and girls.)

Lightfiend · 2013-06-23T19:32:20+00:00

This is because the majority of feminists frame gender issues as an "Us vs. Them" mentality.

Xenoith · 2013-06-23T22:27:08+00:00

It's pretty obvious by now they call us a hate group because we hurt their agenda, which has nothing to do with equal rights anymore. They hate us.. so that makes us a hate group.

DerpaNerb · 2013-06-23T20:34:14+00:00

Why is she is your friend still?

She just told you that you are an oppressor. She made no exception for "some men" or anything... she said caring about the rights of any man is caring about the rights of an oppressor.

It's hard to say but, drop her. I'd have no interest in talking to someone who apparently secretly thinks I hate her and half of the population.

2013-06-23T20:16:16+00:00

Bundem uses logic, it's not very effective.

CaptainChewbacca · 2013-06-23T16:24:01+00:00

That's old news. We wouldn't expect anything different.

2013-06-23T20:28:43+00:00

feminist friend

There's your problem. There's no such thing, she's not your friend, she hates your guts.

SomeArtist · 2013-06-23T18:00:39+00:00

I'm a lurking closet feminist coming out for this post.

I'm sorry she's an idiot.

The majority of us support men's rights, too, because we support complete equality. That goes two ways. This is why I browse feminist subs and MensRights (looking for more related ones actually.) I am interested in both sides. I hope she doesn't make you think we're all men-haters.

AtheistConservative · 2013-06-23T21:15:10+00:00

Ask her how privileged these poor men were http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I_casualties

2013-06-23T22:03:12+00:00

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MRMRising · 2013-06-23T22:07:55+00:00

I asked her why someone couldn't be both a MRA and a feminist and want to solve problems of both men and women

Impossible, feminism will always put woman first, at the expense of men. Big Red can sing all she wants, it changes nothing.

BrambleEdge · 2013-06-24T00:07:18+00:00

Well, she's a feminist... What exactly did you expect? This is what they believe. The core tenet of their belief system is Patriarchy Theory, by which they mean that women are oppressed and men are privileged.

HappyGerbil88 · 2013-06-24T03:47:42+00:00

why someone couldn't be both a MRA and a feminist

Because her attitude reflects the general opposition Feminists have to men's rights. In their warped, delusional mindset, men are privileged and therefore don't have any serious issues that need to be dealt with. This leads people to dismiss MRA's as misogynists who simply want to grab more power for The Patriarchy.

Disillusi0n · 2013-06-23T19:49:53+00:00

Feminism has more in common with the KKK than MRA's.

Wheels279 · 2013-06-23T20:29:41+00:00

Tell your friend she isn't very good at Feminism.

honoraryorange · 2013-06-23T21:11:26+00:00

Victim Culture.

Unenjoyed · 2013-06-23T21:48:14+00:00

I can't wrap my mind around this.

Your friend made an illogical assertion, so at some level, emotion led the thought process to its conclusion. There could be a lot of reasons for this position. Since there was a strong emotional component in this for your friend, any discussion of the topic will result in emotional responses from her.

HoundDogs · 2013-06-23T23:56:49+00:00

They really need to get over this idea that men have some global, Illuminati like organization deigned to keep a boot on the throat of women. This whole idea of "oppressor" is so wildly overblown, it's difficult to even discuss the topic rationally once the word "oppression" is dropped. It's just fucking silly.

If people would just recognize the purpose of their view (i.e. equality), as opposed to constantly finding a way to paint themselves out to be "THE VICTIM" this would be much easier.

2013-06-24T01:01:32+00:00

Former friend, right?

YetAnotherCommenter · 2013-06-24T05:48:46+00:00

I asked couldn't someone just want to work on men's rights? She said that made them a total shithead. Anyone who favors the rights of the "oppressor" over the "oppressed" was a shithead.

This is the typical worldview of people that employ methodologically collectivist Class Analysis. There are only classes - individuals are merely epiphenomena of their class. This worldview basically denies the existence of individual agency and engages in a long Platonistic masturbation session which sees the class as "more real" than the members of it.

I can't wrap my mind around this.

That's because you're sane.

cypher197 · 2013-06-23T19:29:02+00:00

Anyone who favors the rights of the "oppressor" over the "oppressed" was a shithead.

Sounds like she's bought into Patriarchy Theory, and is thus falsely treating men as a class instead of noticing that only a handful of men have power and don't wield it for the benefit of other men. She needs to understand that Patriarchy Theory (in part because it can explain almost anything) is not epistemologically rigorous. Patriarchy Theory is much more like component of a religion (faith-based) instead of a sober academic analysis.

rapscallionx · 2013-06-23T22:04:05+00:00

no one ever accused feminists of being intelligent.

Ding_batman · 2013-06-24T00:06:11+00:00

" I asked couldn't someone just want to work on men's rights? She said that made them a total shithead."

Because patriarchy! All men are the oppressors of all women. Even a male unemployed homeless veteran can oppress a female employed university graduate. Because, say it with me... Patriarchy! Give me a 'P'... fuck it. Some people are simply stupid. Get a new friend.

4man · 2013-06-24T05:25:44+00:00

Perhaps we need to reclaim the word "hate" ? it is clearly undergoing a metamorphosis of meaning, akin to slut. Currently "hate" appears to mean "believes in equality and that men are human beings". /s

Edit: Clarity

DougDante · 2013-06-23T21:20:49+00:00

Sexism can only be against women. This is newspeak

By questioning her one true ideology, you are engaging in thoughtcrime. If she listens to you, she may also become a thought criminal.

If you persist, her ideology may compel her to make you an unperson.

It's best to avoid such dangerous ideologues.

Always_Doubtful · 2013-06-23T19:22:52+00:00

Feminist in a majority is a huge hate group. Show her videos from the events of the UofT protests, thats a hate group. Men didn't provoke them and didn't insult them.

How is the MRM a hate group when feminism promotes violence ?

theozoph · 2013-06-23T20:06:08+00:00

First mistake : you have a feminist friend.

VortexCortex · 2013-06-23T17:21:22+00:00

Not that there is much hope in this case, but ask her "If women were equal and no longer oppressed, would it be acceptable to continue to support women's rights? Would it still be unacceptable to support men's rights?" Then see if you can get her to define what would indicate for her that women are no longer oppressed. Her reasoning will be very thin and easy to shoot holes through. I expect you will hear the 77% myth, complaints about abortion opposition, and complaints about too few female CEOs and politicians.

Nomenimion · 2013-06-24T01:02:24+00:00

She has infinitely more in common with a Klansman than we ever will. Feminism is the real hate movement.

Livestrong88 · 2013-06-24T01:47:04+00:00

You'd be surprised how common this perspective is

ThePigman · 2013-06-24T01:52:08+00:00

Serves you right for having feminist friends.

cajunrevenge · 2013-06-24T02:34:59+00:00

The dots are there to connect but you have to reverse the situation so that a female is the victim to get them to connect the dots. For example take the story of the lesbian girl that is going to go to jail for statutory rape of her girlfriend. They will agree with you about how that situation should not happen to anyone, she will only agree to that if she knows there is a female victim of this law.

It really is sad to see so many people who consider themselves rights activists so blind to their own biases.

Akesgeroth · 2013-06-24T03:30:29+00:00

It's called being irrational.

NSYK · 2013-06-24T05:57:22+00:00

What I love about modern day intelectual debates is the depth of understanding people have about the topics they are discussing. They state their point so eloquently.

2013-06-24T08:19:27+00:00

It's like Christian fundamentalists that proclaim every other religion is in the image of the devil and therefore satanic.

Your friend is a moron, but I'm sure you already know that.

Lachtan · 2013-06-24T08:28:09+00:00

It's SO weird, but pretty typical.

It's the base argument of feminism, females are victims of well established patriarchy.

If you try to speak about men's rights, for them you're like KKK member babbling about how "negros" hurt their master race.

They feel like a victim by default, in all cases, without an exception.

Yup, core fems like this are batshit insane.

intensely_human · 2013-06-24T12:59:45+00:00

The key component here is her assumption that men are oppressors of women. As soon as you buy that idea, that women are being oppressed by men, then being a men's rights activist would appear as a thinly-veiled attempt to provide more firepower to the party which is already clearly dominant.

In order to change your friend's mind, you can't just argue "but men have rights too, and they need to be defended". You need to go to the root and challenge the idea that men are oppressing women.

ExpendableOne · 2013-06-24T14:28:52+00:00

If your friend actually believes that women are oppressed and that men are oppressing them, she is either delusional or an idiot(probably both).

Felisha232 · 2013-11-27T01:19:16+00:00

Well there are Women's Rights Activists. It doesn't mean they don't care about males. Though as a feminist, I have tried to get to the root of men's problems and have often gotten resistance -- as have other feminists. It's due to conservatism. It's the whole 'Men are better, stronger, faster, etc' than women attitude, therefore they should know how to take care of themselves. If not, they deserve to be homeless. Since childhood, a conservative father will scorn his son for crying, but embrace his daughter. He's told to 'Man up!'

Even the manosphere glories strength in men and argue how feminists try to demasculinize them. Yet do any anti-fems know that this identity, this masculinity, is part of their problem? If they perpetuate it, justify it, than they have to take all the hardship that comes with it and stop blaming feminists for their problems caused by it.

More men in jail for violent crimes than women? Yeah. That's male aggression for you; testosterone; machoism. Feminists have being trying to undo this behavior in men for over a century. And women, as a whole, since the begining of time. THAT is the real problem with men. This competitive, dominance between one another, which they likewise perpetuate onto women.

Lrpg · 2013-06-23T18:02:07+00:00

Does this still surprise you?

2013-06-23T19:16:38+00:00

It's an uphill battle for sure - most progressive movements are.

Just know that every legit movement going against the status quo have met against the same backlash. It takes a huge amount of resolve and conviction, but you must not let the bigots get to you.

Bukkake_Monster · 2013-06-23T17:46:44+00:00

Feminists have friends?

Bohica69 · 2013-06-23T18:29:31+00:00

Get a better class of friends.

2013-06-23T19:23:33+00:00

Is your friend aware of the concept of projection?

Nepene · 2013-06-23T22:17:25+00:00

If she is using the word shithead she is probably a member of srs or some tumblr group.

There's not much hope now.

Spysnakez · 2013-06-23T22:39:19+00:00

Because western women are so oppressed.

dysgraphia_add · 2013-06-24T01:58:46+00:00

I hope she is just ill informed.

iongantas · 2013-06-24T02:16:08+00:00

I too am baffled by this. It mostly sounds like an opinion born out of ignorance and propaganda.

2013-06-24T04:44:47+00:00

"friend"

velcona · 2013-06-24T05:01:25+00:00

Empathy is hard for people, at there core.

VideoLinkBot · 2013-06-24T05:54:08+00:00

Here is a list of video links collected from comments that redditors have made in response to this submission:

Source Comment	Score	Video Link
Icyx	70	Dominique Strauss-Kahn: The Great Debate
tactsweater	2	the great poster tear-down extravaganza
FeMRA	1	Feminism and the Disposable Male
FeMRA	1	Don't fall into that Patriarchy!
knucker2	1	This is What a Feminist Looks Like

bunker_man · 2013-06-24T08:48:51+00:00

Postmodernism: It's like cancer, except knowledge about it doesn't advance science.

Clausewitz1996 · 2013-06-24T17:36:58+00:00

I suggest that you no longer associate yourself with that friend, and realize that the entire feminist community does not identify themselves with her position. I promise you that if you were to go to AskFeminists and probe them for their thoughts, they would agree with you.

nedonedonedo · 2013-06-24T19:28:56+00:00

to argue that there are none on here that deserve that comparison is a bit blind, but the whole, or even most of the group does is far more close minded. but those are the people that need convincing; if they were open minded, they would already know anyone can turn anyone else into a victim.

2013-06-24T20:45:50+00:00

I don't know what you all expect from reddit.

Reddit is not an accurate reflection of the country. It's an accurate reflection of socially awkward upper-middle class college kids, and that's pretty much it. Hell, look at this subreddit -- do you think most MRAs are even half as concerned about staying good liberals as you lot appear to be? Do you think reddit's demographics have something to do with that?

Your friend is just histrionic. The next time she says something this retarded, ask her how many people MRAs have lynched? If that doesn't force her to take a good hard look at her thinking, nothing will, and you can safely write her off. Don't ever be afraid to write someone who isn't family off.

Super_delicious · 2013-06-23T19:01:17+00:00

Don't worry I got told my views of equality were outdated and laughable.

TheOnlyKarsh · 2013-06-24T01:40:01+00:00

No amount of good logic can overcome an emotionally held belief.

Karsh

Mitschu · 2013-06-24T01:45:16+00:00

Oooh, oooh, did she mention the SPLC report?

I love it when they mention the SPLC report.

Especially when they don't ruin the momentum by bringing up the SPLC's followup response to all the people misattributing things to their organization.

joedude · 2013-06-24T04:43:38+00:00

these cunts need a field trip to saudi arabia.

fukuaneveryoneuknow · 2013-06-23T18:20:01+00:00

Your friend.

She is right however in that you can't be an MRA and a feminist and not be a hypocrite.

SadinaFem · 2013-06-24T02:38:51+00:00

It's in the manner MRAs behave that is the problem, both in reddits and youtube. Also, AVFM is anything but pro-women. And johntheother once said that the MRM is a hate group. What he meant by that exactly can be surmised by his video where he mocks rape victims. There is also Paul Elam, who doxes women and labels himself as the 'happy misogynist' So is the MRM a hate group? From certain angles, it clearly is.

Hifen · 2013-06-23T22:59:43+00:00

To plays devil advocate, A LOT of MRA's say some really shitty stuff, and are quite misogynistic . Women do have a harder time regarding most issues in our society. That being said there are certain issues that specifically affect men that also need to be addressed, so you are correct in saying both sides need to be dealt with. Remember though, to outsiders a group is usually represented by the vocal minority, and in the MRA's case that includes a lot of men who seem to hate women. In fairness the same thing happens to feminists, and why a lot of people regard them as men hating lesbians. I personally disagree with both feminists and MRA's, once you put yourself in a group, you have now started an us vs them mentality, and that is no good for the actual development of true equality.

rightsbot · 2013-06-23T16:20:18+00:00

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AgentmrmOrangemra · 2013-06-23T19:12:03+00:00

Time to find a new friend.

2013-06-24T22:29:09+00:00

"Shit-head," "Heathen," "Infidel."

These are famous words used by people who can't think for themselves, and have to attach their empty heads to a dogma lest their light weight send them into space on this spinning blue marble.

2013-06-25T14:43:05+00:00

Feminism is a female supremacist hate movement. No amount of reason, empathy or trying to understand will make an iota of difference with female supremacist bigots.

2013-06-24T05:59:10+00:00

Well, weren't you guys put on the Southern Poverty Law Center's list of recognized Hate Groups?

HokesOne · 2013-06-23T20:57:18+00:00

Well let's examine the evidence:

The SPLC (the nonprofit body responsible for monitoring, classifying, and litigating against hate movements) has declared the MRM a hate movement.
figureheads within the MRM are often unabashed misogynists (john the other, Paul Elam), rape apologists (john the other, Paul Elam, Warren Farrell), advocates for child sexual assault (Warren Farrell), and are time to time loosely affiliated with racist/homophobic hate communities when their interests overlap.
anti-feminist and anti-woman hate speech is openly permitted and rewarded within the community.
Stark reactionism: rather than advocating for the group you consider to be oppressed, a majority of time within the MRM is spent complaining about progress made by feminism or circlejerking about the same couple of "women behaving badly"
blatant ignorance/rejection of violent sociological institutions like patriarchy and rape culture, and various instances of covert and overt defense of them.

"would you like to hear more?"

desenagrator · 2013-06-23T20:02:42+00:00

What a cunt bag.

2013-06-23T23:48:30+00:00

Why would you be friends with a feminist? Didn't you realize this was the retarded kind of shit that would come out of her idiot mouth? Why waste time speaking with someone like this? Surely you don't intend to profit from it do you?

Anyway feminists are pretty much the most ignorant of all females. It's like being friends with a mormon or a catholic.

montay23 · 2013-07-20T16:46:22+00:00

female logic

FreudJesusGod · 2013-06-24T06:08:00+00:00

We need to grow some thicker skin.

"Oh noes, some person denigrated my beliefs!!". So what if some fucktard thinks X about Y. They're fucktards.

I'm really not interested in caring about little whiney fragile kids.

Daddy, Tommy hit me!

. . .

So? Stop whinging, grow some fucking balls, and hit him back.

EdgarFrogandSam · 2013-06-23T18:18:20+00:00

I think if you're an MRA, that makes you a feminist and vice versa.

651b26ff · 2013-06-23T22:20:01+00:00

but it really is a hate group

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