How do you tell if a guy is 'Red Pill' and not just a guy who has a basic level of respect for himself as a man?

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What current feminism lacks is the ability to admit the mistakes and to hold a more nuances discussion

i have found this to be absolutely correct in my experience. dissenting opinions are very often not allowed. there is groupthink and a dogma that requires adherence and conformity. this is inherently problematic.

its also important to remember that just because someone is a feminist or argues a typical feminist talking point doesn't mean that they are necessarily incorrect. and thats the point, if we are to orate, or debate on any topic, we have to do so with a basic understanding of rhetoric.

a refutation, is an essential element in confirming ones own argument. understanding how you can be wrong is the only way to confirm you are right.

There's also a bigger problem of movements getting commercialized

right so this is a really good point. and i think this is exactly why a lot of people believe that feminism is a dominant philosophy of our times. which makes it very difficult to believe that there is a patriarchy pulling the strings. although there are many other interesting implications to what you are saying here.

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patriarchy is an invisible hand argument. "somewhere there is a club of boys controlling the world through gender conformity". and then you say well most of the world leaders are men, most of the politicians are men, most of the CEO's are men, therefore we are governed by a patriarchy. what this fails to understand is that these people are not in power because they have a penis. they are in power because they have money or represent the interests of moneyed people. we live in an oligarchy that pretends to be a democracy. correlation does not equal causation.

Patriarchy =\= men. Feminists =\= women.

and yet the result of the feminism vs patriarchy paradigm is that in order to be morally correct one must provide advocation for womens rights activisim, while villifying mens rights activism and male advocates. men are the villains of feminism, that is part of the dogma. feminists spent months arguing about how they would rather be eaten by a polar bear then spend a moment alone with a man to the point that it is now a banned topic.

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Academic standards when you get into this stuff is not the magic word that people seem to think it is. There are plenty of academic studies that were well thought of in their time and are now thought of as ridiculous and unfortunately patriarchal theory is probably one. It may have some narrow application in some societies but it is used as a cudgel in gender studies in so many ways it's pretty much at the same point as "toxically masculine". An okay theory used to represent something that could have been much better received if it was called "unhealthy gender roles".. but someone had to give it a punchy name, and now it's basically the flavour of the month boogeyman of modern society - it's like the George Soros of the left. Responsible for everything nefarious while actually doing nothing.

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I don't think that a man who is in TRP is inherently a bad person.

The context is dating. And many women try to avoid dating RP men. Maybe it's not a value judgement on them as people so much but it certainly would disqualify them as dating material - hence the use of the word 'bad' in the context of dating (to date).

You're kind of making it into something else at that point if you're digging into an overview of their moral character and that's not what the question was necessarily intended to be about. It's about dating.

I'm not into casual,

No kind of anything necessarily means that guys are inherently into 'casual' or not. So, I would consider this to be a tangent.

I would want to avoid dating a red man, because most likely we aren't compatible and he wouldn't want to date me either.

^ This is really the point of the question. How would you know this? That's the question. You've done just about everything aside from answering the actual question.

I'm not into casual, I require a lot of time to build sexual attraction and trust and I don't have sex without being committed. I do not play hot and cold games. I prefer clear communication; and if a person doesn't respect my boundaries or makes me wonder about their intentions or affection, I'm not going to engage with them. I'm egalitarian, feminist, a part of LGBTQ+ community, environmentally conscious. I think most TRP men will be repelled by it.

^ None of this is relevant. Does not answer the question.

[–]EulenWatcher♀ I like to practice what I preach 11 points12 points13 points 2 years ago (38 children) | Copy Link

Your post wasn't clear on the "bad" context.

Dating-wise TRP concentrates on "spinning plates" and married TRP pushes the idea "older teenager in the house". It's pretty clear why most women don't view red men as potentially good partners.

We're talking about generalization. TRP is largely about casual relationships.

When I was dating, I dated in my social circle. Knowing one's dating history, how they behave with other people, what they're talking about when you aren't interacting romantically or one-to-one help to figure out at least some of behavior or beliefs. Paying attention to what they're talking on dates, how they behave and how they treat you is another step.

Husband did quite a lot of things that TRP recommends against. We waited to have sex for a few months, he was clear from the start that he was not seeing any other people, he wasn't in a hurry to escalate any physical contact, he'd double text or call me etc.

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Once again, we're talking about generalizations.

Right but the process of identifying RP men is all about generalizing in the first place. That's the point.

In general, TRP men are conservative,

Some aren't.

while also seek casual sex

It really isn't about casual sex.

they heavily rely on hot and cold games.

You can be RP and not do this.

Oh, they're fucked up.

So you're perfectly okay with telling these women that they are fucked up for liking what they like?

I support you but good luck with that. Because when men try to do it they get an earful of - how dare you judge me based on what I like. How dare you decide what I'm supposed to like.

I don't disagree but fucked up or not, women are like this everywhere and sometimes they end up being a guy's only option.

In the end, thank you for announcing the women should do better though.

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How do you tell if a guy is 'Red Pill' and not just a guy who has a basic level of respect for himself as a man?

^ This is the question.

Red pill people are usually on the conservative side and are often right leaning.

Not always. What if they're just apolitcal?

So if I’m on a date with a man and I tell him I like going to Drag Queen Brunch, if he grimaces and says that stuff is weird and gross, well now I know we’re not compatible.

A lot of these things are easy. Some of them aren't. Just because a man wouldn't prefer to go to a Drag Queen event does not mean he's inherently an RPer. Obviously if he says something offensive then maybe you have something to go on, but come on, really? That's your example?

You learn about people by talking to them and going on dates.

How do you know you're not ruling out false positives?

Are you single?

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[–]serpensmercurialisNo Pill Woman 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

'Red Pill' is defined as whatever it is you think 'Red Pill' is.

All right, "Red Pill" men who are usually shitty men and partners. We'll categorize them as men who are very mistrustful of women, see personal relationships as zero-sum in a lot of aspects, are preoccupied with social dominance and social approval, probably have either avoidant or fearful attachment types, are often pessimistic towards relationships, are emotionally unavailable, and have some dark triad traits.

I am personally not attracted to those traits in men at all so it's generally pretty easy for me to avoid those men.

If you're so confident that a 'Red Pill' man is a bad man, why do women end up accidentally dating them? If you're so confident that 'Red Pill' men are bad why would you need any effort at all to tell the difference between one of those guys and one of the good guys?

Because some women are attracted to some of those traits (social dominance, avoidant attachment style, particularly) and most men are smart enough to try to hide things that are generally unattractive. People like RPers frequently have a lot of shame and subsequent concerns about social approval, so they are usually very concerned with their public image. They're not always going to be up front about things they know will get them rejected.

A lot of men have this idea in their heads that it is very obvious that other men are bad people who will do bad things, but when one of their friends they have known for 10 years commits DV, rape, or child abuse, then suddenly nobody knew he was like that. Some people are good at hiding aspects of themselves and some are bad at it.

Maybe some of you have a system for this that works. I'd like to hear about it and it might be useful to share with other women looking for the same.

People are individuals and there is no step by step that will eliminate all of them. The best general advice if you are suspicious is to play dumb and get him in that mode where he is seeing what he can get away with saying, let him get away with everything, and then see how far he pushes. If he doesn't feel like he has to conceal what he really thinks around you, then a lot of the time he will tell on himself. More specific advice on how to do that is going to depend on the individual man. The only other general advice would be to avoid the personality traits that frequently go with being RP, specifically: mistrust, dark triad traits, irrational zero-sum thinking, high shame sensitivity, and high social dominance orientation.

[+]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] -7 points-6 points-5 points 2 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

Okay. 'Red Pill' means men who are shitty in any way shape or form. Got it.

Very useful.

so they are usually very concerned with their public image.

And women are not? Isn't public image a little important in this day and age if you expect to have a career? What if you're Mayor? Are you still not allowed to be concerned about your public image? Help me understand.

known for 10 years commits DV, rape, or child abuse, then suddenly nobody knew he was like that.

Oof. I mean, to be fair, sometimes there's no warning for things like that. I unfortunately had a friend commit suicide about a year ago and that's not like a crime against someone else, but it's a sometimes you just never know kind of situation because all the people who cared about him just didn't see it coming. And I think that's an unfortunate part of life. But obviously people who are DV, r8pe, yikes. Sometimes there's signs but you have to understand that if people saw it coming then it probably wouldn't have happened because people are on the lookout for stopping things like that and protecting their communities, make sense?

People are likely saying it also in a way where - we didn't see it coming moreso to say they wish they could've done something to prevent it. Another example I have is I coached a little girl and she had two mothers because it was a lesbian couple and they split up, one mother insisted on full custody, the court ruled against her, so she flipped out and killed the little girl, her little brother, and then killed herself. I was just a soccer coach, but I felt like goddamn I wish I had seen something because maybe there was something I could've done and that poor little girl who I remember as just being so happy, would still be alive. I didn't see that coming either.

Some people are good at hiding aspects of themselves and some are bad at it.

Which is what my question is all about. How do you know for sure if they're RP or not? What if you snap judgement but then get it wrong?

play dumb and get him in that mode where he is seeing what he can get away with saying,

Yikes. How do you end up with men like this in the first place though?

has to conceal what he really thinks around you, then a lot of the time he will tell on himself

So what then are the things that men aren't allowed to think?

mistrust

I find this one to be the most obviously wrong of all the things you've said. A lot of men have mistrust because they've been hurt by women, and ironically if you're nice to them they might be really good boyfriends because they appreciate an actual positive experience with a woman. Now that's maybe not 100% of mistrustful men but it is simply to say that it's not so that 100% of mistrustful men would be RP or bad to date.

dark triad traits

Then why do so many women respond so well to this shit? I'm not like this at all, personally, but this is the number one personality thing that I know for certain works.

irrational zero-sum thinking,

Of course, anyone who's like this is RP. Women.

high shame sensitivity

I don't know what this means. If a woman tried to shame me or use shaming language around me, I'd find that unpleasant and not want to date them.

high social dominance orientation.

But again, women love this. How do you sort this out.

I actually really appreciate the thought you put into this despite our potential to disagree or cross-communicate on some of it.

[–]serpensmercurialisNo Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

Okay. 'Red Pill' means men who are shitty in any way shape or form. Got it.

Very useful.

My very first question to you was what you were defining as "bad RP men." You had the opportunity to define Red Pill and said "Red Pill is defined as whatever it is you think 'Red Pill' is." I named specific traits associated with red pill men who are toxic in relationships, which you are now strawmanning as "men who are shitty in any way shape or form." If you want a different definition, then state one and stop moving the goalposts.

And women are not?

More strawmanning. Nice.

Isn't public image a little important in this day and age if you expect to have a career? What if you're Mayor? Are you still not allowed to be concerned about your public image? Help me understand.

I never said anything about not being allowed to be concerned about your public image. This was what you said and my reply to it:

If you're so confident that a 'Red Pill' man is a bad man, why do women end up accidentally dating them? If you're so confident that 'Red Pill' men are bad why would you need any effort at all to tell the difference between one of those guys and one of the good guys?

Because some women are attracted to some of those traits (social dominance, avoidant attachment style, particularly) and most men are smart enough to try to hide things that are generally unattractive. People like RPers frequently have a lot of shame and subsequent concerns about social approval, so they are usually very concerned with their public image. They're not always going to be up front about things they know will get them rejected.

I'm going to be honest, you come across as very bad faith when you're constantly trying to misrepresent what I said.

Oof. I mean, to be fair, sometimes there's no warning for things like that. I unfortunately had a friend commit suicide about a year ago and that's not like a crime against someone else, but it's a sometimes you just never know kind of situation because all the people who cared about him just didn't see it coming. And I think that's an unfortunate part of life. But obviously people who are DV, r8pe, yikes. Sometimes there's signs but you have to understand that if people saw it coming then it probably wouldn't have happened because people are on the lookout for stopping things like that and protecting their communities, make sense?

People are likely saying it also in a way where - we didn't see it coming moreso to say they wish they could've done something to prevent it. Another example I have is I coached a little girl and she had two mothers because it was a lesbian couple and they split up, one mother insisted on full custody, the court ruled against her, so she flipped out and killed the little girl, her little brother, and then killed herself. I was just a soccer coach, but I felt like goddamn I wish I had seen something because maybe there was something I could've done and that poor little girl who I remember as just being so happy, would still be alive. I didn't see that coming either.

Right next to:

play dumb and get him in that mode where he is seeing what he can get away with saying,

Yikes. How do you end up with men like this in the first place though?

I guess I'll spell it out for you again. People who end up dating bad men often "didn't see it coming" the same way you "didn't see it coming" with your friend's suicide.

Which is what my question is all about. How do you know for sure if they're RP or not? What if you snap judgement but then get it wrong?

The same way you make judgement calls about literally everything else in life. I'm not sure what you're asking here that I haven't already answered in my previous post.

So what then are the things that men aren't allowed to think?

I'm not typing out an exhaustive list for you.

I find this one to be the most obviously wrong of all the things you've said. A lot of men have mistrust because they've been hurt by women, and ironically if you're nice to them they might be really good boyfriends because they appreciate an actual positive experience with a woman. Now that's maybe not 100% of mistrustful men but it is simply to say that it's not so that 100% of mistrustful men would be RP or bad to date.

Avoiding men with mistrust for women is the #1 way to avoid redpillers. That was the intent of the advice. I find it kind of hilarious that you're doing the "well maybe he's a great guy, you should ignore the red flag and give him a chance!" meme in the same post that you asked me how women end up with men like this. You could say the same about avoiding any obvious red flag like criminal history, past DV, cheating. Just because they could be good for you doesn't mean the trait isn't a red flag.

dark triad traits

Then why do so many women respond so well to this shit? I'm not like this at all, personally, but this is the number one personality thing that I know for certain works.

If you actually think dark triad traits are the #1 personality aspect that attracts women, then you either grew up in a rough neighborhood or are chronically online. If you have any evidence to prove that they value dark triad traits more than all other personality aspects, then feel free to post it.

irrational zero-sum thinking,

Of course, anyone who's like this is RP. Women.

Strawmanning yet again.

high shame sensitivity

I don't know what this means.

It means exactly what I said. High shame sensitivity. If you really need me to explain to you what that means, then it would be a high score on the Fear of Negative Evaluation Scale (Watson and Friend, 1969) or Sensitivity to Put-Down Scale (Gilbert and Miles, 2000.)

high social dominance orientation.

But again, women love this. How do you sort this out.

For the women who like it, they're likely high in it themselves and that is their personal problem to sort out. But again, if you have evidence that the majority of women are attracted to men high in social dominance orientation, then you're free to post it.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

ignore the red flag

The only reason you've given for it being a red flag is that you've called it a red flag.

give him a chance!" meme

Cool. You do you. Don't give any guy a chance ever. Doesn't mean it makes sense.

You could say the same about avoiding any obvious red flag like criminal history, past DV, cheating. Just because they could be good for you doesn't mean the trait isn't a red flag.

Yea, but I didn't say that now did I?

XD.

Serious question:

Do you think that men should consider it a red flag if a woman is distrustful of men?

If you actually think dark triad traits are the #1 personality aspect that attracts women, then you either grew up in a rough neighborhood or are chronically online.

I don't know if I said #1, unhinged strawman. The only reason I know about this as a thing that can work is because I wasn't online at the time that I saw this shit happen all throughout my life. I did not grow up in a rough neighborhood. I'm pretty well off, mostly always have been. I do think that there's something to be said for region though.

Strawmanning yet again.

You're the one that listed "irrational zero-sum thinking." If you didn't write this, I wouldn't have summarized it this way. And yes, I said 'women' I believe there's evidence to suggest that women engage in irrational zero-sum thinking as well, FDS, etc. If you have a problem with the way that I'm characterizing your view based on your words then clarify or use better or more accurate words. Or just say what you really mean.

It means exactly what I said.

That's helpful.

High shame sensitivity. If you really need me to explain to you what that means, then it would be a high score on the Fear of Negative Evaluation Scale (Watson and Friend, 1969) or Sensitivity to Put-Down Scale (Gilbert and Miles, 2000.)

I'm glad that you've made it clear that you're using specialized language. It's kind of, almost as if, that's the very reason I asked.

For the women who like it, they're likely high in it themselves and that is their personal problem to sort out.

So they don't count. Gotcha.

I don't understand what your tone is about.

[–]serpensmercurialisNo Pill Woman 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

The only reason you've given for it being a red flag is that you've called it a red flag.

Do you just entirely lack common sense or something? Here, let me chatgpt that for you:

A general mistrust towards women as a group, as reflected in Red Pill ideology, would be a significant red flag in a man you are considering dating for several reasons:

Promotion of Misogynistic Beliefs: Red Pill ideology often promotes misogynistic beliefs, viewing women as manipulative, deceitful, and primarily interested in exploiting men. A man who subscribes to these views is likely to have a fundamentally disrespectful and adversarial attitude towards women.

Negative Impact on Relationship Dynamics: Such beliefs can undermine the foundation of trust and mutual respect essential for a healthy relationship. If a man is predisposed to view women with suspicion and distrust, it can lead to constant tension, misunderstandings, and conflicts.

Potential for Controlling Behavior: Red Pill ideology can encourage controlling and manipulative behavior, as men may feel the need to assert dominance or control over women to prevent perceived exploitation. This can manifest in attempts to restrict your freedom, isolate you from friends and family, or dictate your behavior.

Lack of Empathy and Emotional Support: A man influenced by Red Pill ideology may lack the empathy and emotional intelligence necessary to understand and support your feelings and needs. This can result in a lack of emotional intimacy and a dismissive or invalidating attitude towards your experiences.

Hostility and Aggression: Red Pill ideology often fosters a combative and hostile attitude towards women, viewing relationships as power struggles rather than partnerships. This can lead to verbal, emotional, or even physical aggression, creating an unsafe and toxic environment.

Reinforcement of Gender Stereotypes: Adherents of Red Pill ideology typically reinforce harmful gender stereotypes, which can limit personal growth and perpetuate inequality. A relationship with someone who holds these beliefs may hinder your ability to pursue your goals and aspirations freely.

Incompatibility with Healthy Relationship Values: Healthy relationships are based on equality, mutual respect, and genuine partnership. Red Pill ideology is fundamentally at odds with these values, making it difficult to build a stable, loving, and supportive relationship.

In summary, a man who adheres to Red Pill ideology is likely to have deeply ingrained negative attitudes towards women that can manifest in harmful and toxic behaviors. Recognizing and addressing these red flags is crucial for your well-being and the health of any potential relationship.

There you go, champ.

Cool. You do you. Don't give any guy a chance ever.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

Do you think that men should consider it a red flag if a woman is distrustful of men?

It depends on the level. There is a difference between thinking "any stranger of x group could potentially be in the minority group of y, so I should be careful until I get to know them" and "all or most x are y." For example, if a woman knows that the vast majority of men aren't rapists, but still takes precautions around strangers and situations that elevate risk (such as alcohol,) then that is not a red flag. If a woman thinks that all or most men would rape if they knew that they could get away with it, then that is a massive red flag. One is saying you are wary of a small minority of strangers while the other is saying you believe the majority are actively adversarial towards you and would harm you. Common sense stuff here.

If you actually think dark triad traits are the #1 personality aspect that attracts women, then you either grew up in a rough neighborhood or are chronically online.

I don't know if I said #1, unhinged strawman.

You did verbatim:

but this is the number one personality thing that I know for certain works.

lmfao

The only reason I know about this as a thing that can work is because I wasn't online at the time that I saw this shit happen all throughout my life. I did not grow up in a rough neighborhood. I'm pretty well off, mostly always have been. I do think that there's something to be said for region though.

Where then? Gotham city?

You're the one that listed "irrational zero-sum thinking." If you didn't write this, I wouldn't have summarized it this way.

You said:

Of course, anyone who's like this is RP. Women.

Which is a mischaracterization of what I said. I never said "All men who have these traits are RP." I said most RP men have these traits. If I tell you that most people who kick dogs are bad people, does that translate to "all bad people kick dogs" to you? Because that would be an irrational interpretation of the statement that most reasonable people would not make.

I'm glad that you've made it clear that you're using specialized language. It's kind of, almost as if, that's the very reason I asked.

Most people don't need it broken down into specialized language to understand, but here I am having to explain it to you like you have a social impairment.

So they don't count. Gotcha.

Your question was "how do you sort this out" and my answer was "they have to sort themselves out." How did you get "they don't count" from that? Count for what?

I don't understand what your tone is about.

You are annoying and bad faith. Hence tone.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] -2 points-1 points0 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

My very first question to you was what you were defining as "bad RP men."

No. I just said RP = bad man, per the narrative.

You had the opportunity to define Red Pill

That's not what I'm here to do

I named specific traits associated with red pill men who are toxic in relationships

Some can be toxic in a relationship and not be RP.

"men who are shitty in any way shape or form."

I made an honest attempt to summarize what you said and distill it into a brief description.

It was based off what you said here:

All right, "Red Pill" men who are usually shitty men and partners. We'll categorize them as men who are very mistrustful of women, see personal relationships as zero-sum in a lot of aspects, are preoccupied with social dominance and social approval, probably have either avoidant or fearful attachment types, are often pessimistic towards relationships, are emotionally unavailable, and have some dark triad traits.

If I was inaccurate, feel free to use your words to tailor the precise characterization you'd like me to go off. My response would remain the same.

More strawmanning. Nice.

There's a level at which it's perfectly permissible to care about your public image.

I said that because you said this:

People like RPers frequently have a lot of shame and subsequent concerns about social approval, so they are usually very concerned with their public image.

Again, there's a level where being concerned about your public image makes sense in the world today. If you're talking about something more specific, then describe it.

They're not always going to be up front about things they know will get them rejected.

The same can be said about anyone. Lots of men and women would go out of their way to avoid being rejected. If you're talking about something that's at an unhealthy level then describe it.

I'm going to be honest, you come across as very bad faith when you're constantly trying to misrepresent what I said.

I stand by those quotes. You've basically just re-posted things that I've written and labeled them as 'bad faith.' Care to explain why?

People who end up dating bad men often "didn't see it coming" the same way you "didn't see it coming" with your friend's suicide.

My suggestion here to a different commenter was to try to get to know guys before starting into actual dates, like maybe, absolutely critical information. I don't see how my friend's suicide is the same thing. Just about the only job you have in dating is your choice to date or not date the men around you who present themselves to you as date-able. You had one job. The other scenario is really about unknown unknowns, I had no idea I should've been concerned about my friend, I wish I knew that I should be concerned. Your choice to date a man is a situation where you know you have a task in front of you, and if something is super important to you, you need the information that you need, probably before your first official date. It's not complicated, and your comparison is not the same thing.

The same way you make judgement calls about literally everything else in life.

I thought I was the one strawmanning here.

I'm not typing out an exhaustive list for you.

Well then what's point of you bringing it up then? You suggested that there are things men aren't allowed to even think. What are they?

Avoiding men with mistrust for women is the #1 way to avoid redpillers.

I think you're wrong on this and I've already explained why. You're throwing the baby out with bath water on this one.

[–]serpensmercurialisNo Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

You had the opportunity to define Red Pill

That's not what I'm here to do

That is what you did. You said:

'Red Pill' is defined as whatever it is you think 'Red Pill' is.

If you have a problem with how I defined it, then either give your own definition or quit whining.

Some can be toxic in a relationship and not be RP.

Nobody said otherwise. I'm just going to link the wikipedia page for straw manning every time you do this.

I made an honest attempt to summarize what you said and distill it into a brief description.

No. You straw manned. I listed specific traits which you then exaggerated into being "men who are shitty in any way shape or form."

feel free to use your words to tailor the precise characterization you'd like me to go off.

I did. That is what you are misrepresenting.

There's a level at which it's perfectly permissible to care about your public image.

Nobody said otherwise.

Again, there's a level where being concerned about your public image makes sense in the world today. If you're talking about something more specific, then describe it.

Are you stupid or something? What I said about RPers being concerned about their public image was in relation to why their ideological views would be concealed from others and possibly missed by women in the dating scene. It wasn't a positive or negative value judgment about the trait itself. Like how on earth did you come to that conclusion from this paragraph:

most men are smart enough to try to hide things that are generally unattractive. People like RPers frequently have a lot of shame and subsequent concerns about social approval, so they are usually very concerned with their public image. They're not always going to be up front about things they know will get them rejected.

That was specifically in response to this question:

why do women end up accidentally dating them? If you're so confident that 'Red Pill' men are bad why would you need any effort at all to tell the difference between one of those guys and one of the good guys?

What a joke.

The same can be said about anyone. Lots of men and women would go out of their way to avoid being rejected.

Nobody said otherwise.

If you're talking about something that's at an unhealthy level then describe it.

I was answering your question, see above.

I stand by those quotes. You've basically just re-posted things that I've written and labeled them as 'bad faith.' Care to explain why?

I have. Your responses to both me and many other people in this thread are filled with basically every variation of a straw man argument that exists.

My suggestion here to a different commenter was to try to get to know guys before starting into actual dates, like maybe, absolutely critical information. I don't see how my friend's suicide is the same thing. Just about the only job you have in dating is your choice to date or not date the men around you who present themselves to you as date-able. You had one job.

And just like you failed in the general expectations of friendship with your friend, women who end up with bad men have failed the general expectations of dating and partner selection with that man. It is just something that happens sometimes whether people are negligent or not.

The other scenario is really about unknown unknowns, I had no idea I should've been concerned about my friend, I wish I knew that I should be concerned. Your choice to date a man is a situation where you know you have a task in front of you, and if something is super important to you, you need the information that you need, probably before your first official date. It's not complicated, and your comparison is not the same thing.

Most people consider knowing who and how someone is to be the foundation of what friendship is. A requirement even. And that's before you even approach the component of mutual trust and support. You say "I had no idea I should've been concerned about my friend" when most people in general show concern for their friends in the aspects I listed. Nobody has to tell them. That's the baseline expectation. And it is still possible to fail even when you tried to meet that expectation.

The same way you make judgement calls about literally everything else in life.

I thought I was the one strawmanning here.

??? What are you on about?

Well then what's point of you bringing it up then? You suggested that there are things men aren't allowed to even think. What are they?

You are the one who brought it up. My post was generalized advice directed at women who presumably know their own preferences for the personal beliefs of the men they're dating. I'm not going to waste my time with a list of common sense items for some bad faith dude who is presumably dating women, not men.

I think you're wrong on this and I've already explained why. You're throwing the baby out with bath water on this one.

I'm currently with a man who isn't mistrustful of women, a criminal, a cheater, or someone with a past history of DV. You can keep the baby and the bathwater, I don't need it. There's no shortage of men without it and there's no need for decent women to dumpster dive.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

If you have a problem with how I defined it, then either give your own definition or quit whining.

I'm allowed to go with what you think red pill is and disagree with it if I do. Not sure what your problem is.

Nobody said otherwise. I'm just going to link the wikipedia page for straw manning every time you do this.

It sounds like you're more interested in calling something 'strawman' and running away from the subject rather than actually attempting to clarify what it is you actually mean to say. If you're just going to slap labels on things and run and hide there's no point in responding at all especially considering how low level this conversation has become. If you're not here to say what you mean then why are you here?

Some can be toxic in a relationship and not be RP.

Nobody said otherwise.

Then obviously there's something a little bit more to RP than just being toxic. And if that's so and something you agree with, you could just say that instead, or just add that to the 'toxic' part.

Why is this hard at all?

"men who are shitty in any way shape or form."

I gave you the quote this is based on. Again, if you disagree with it, provide a succinct characterization that is to your liking. Like I said, it would change nothing about my response.

I did. That is what you are misrepresenting.

You gave a long sprawling paragraph. So, you didn't. Succinct.

There's a level at which it's perfectly permissible to care about your public image.

^ This isn't even a characterization of something you said.

Nobody said otherwise.

Directing me to strawman via hyperlink doesn't even make sense here. It sounds like you just learned a new word today. Congrats.

What I said about RPers being concerned about their public image was in relation to why their ideological views would be concealed from others and possibly missed by women in the dating scene.

You're gonna have to get reported for asking if I'm stupid.

As for this content, it's already been addressed. Lots of people conceal their views if they think it suits them, women do it too. So what? What is unique about RPers doing it? Are you saying RPers always try to conceal stuff? I don't know if that's true. I feel like some people are pretty open about it.

Again, people care about their public image. It's a thing. Are we not allowed to care about that? Or, if we're men we're not allowed to care about that? If you're trying to say that RP people are known in association as people who care about their public image, then that doesn't really say much is all I was saying. Because lots of people care about their public image and unless that manifests itself in ways that are excessive or extreme, I just don't see the problem. I also don't see that you ever mentioned anything specific as an example of something extreme.

And just like you failed in the general expectations of friendship with your friend, women who end up with bad men have failed the general expectations of dating and partner selection with that man. It is just something that happens sometimes whether people are negligent or not.

Clearly, you don't understand how male friendship works. I'm a man and I have friends. I don't hold my friends 'accountable' to some 'standard of friendship.' When you're a woman and you're dating, just about the only thing you're accountable for is your dating choices.

It is just something that happens sometimes

Or you could just take the advice that I gave you. If you really cared you'd think you would prefer that over more 'accidents.'

Most people consider knowing who and how someone is to be the foundation of what friendship is.

[–]serpensmercurialisNo Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

It sounds like you're more interested in calling something 'strawman' and running away from the subject rather than actually attempting to clarify what it is you actually mean to say. If you're just going to slap labels on things and run and hide there's no point in responding at all especially considering how low level this conversation has become. If you're not here to say what you mean then why are you here?

"The straw man fallacy occurs in the following pattern of argument:

Person 1 asserts proposition X.
Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X.

This reasoning is a fallacy of relevance: it fails to address the proposition in question by misrepresenting the opposing position.

For example:

Quoting an opponent's words out of context—i.e., choosing quotations that misrepresent the opponent's intentions (see fallacy of quoting out of context).[3]
Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then denying that person's arguments—thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[2]
Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.
Exaggerating (sometimes grossly) an opponent's argument, then attacking this exaggerated version."

Then obviously there's something a little bit more to RP than just being toxic. And if that's so and something you agree with, you could just say that instead, or just add that to the 'toxic' part.

Why is this hard at all?

"For example: Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version."

I gave you the quote this is based on. Again, if you disagree with it, provide a succinct characterization that is to your liking. Like I said, it would change nothing about my response.

"For example: Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version. Exaggerating (sometimes grossly) an opponent's argument, then attacking this exaggerated version."

You gave a long sprawling paragraph. So, you didn't. Succinct.

For example: Oversimplifying an opponent's argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

The same can be said about anyone. Lots of men and women would go out of their way to avoid being rejected.

Nobody said otherwise.

Directing me to strawman via hyperlink doesn't even make sense here. It sounds like you just learned a new word today. Congrats.

It's okay I'll keep holding your hand and explaining it to you:

What I said about RPers being concerned about their public image was in relation to why their ideological views would be concealed from others and possibly missed by women in the dating scene. It wasn't a positive or negative value judgment about the trait itself. Like how on earth did you come to that conclusion from this paragraph:

most men are smart enough to try to hide things that are generally unattractive. People like RPers frequently have a lot of shame and subsequent concerns about social approval, so they are usually very concerned with their public image. They're not always going to be up front about things they know will get them rejected.

That was specifically in response to this question:

why do women end up accidentally dating them? If you're so confident that 'Red Pill' men are bad why would you need any effort at all to tell the difference between one of those guys and one of the good guys?

"Person 2 argues against a superficially similar proposition Y, falsely, as if an argument against Y were an argument against X."

But I know you're probably still confused so let me spell it out for you:

"Bad faith Andy argues against the position that hiding unattractive traits to avoid rejection is unique to redpillers, falsely, as if an argument against the uniqueness of redpillers hiding unattractive traits is an argument against the impact of hiding unattractive traits on someone's ability to weed out men with those traits."

Is it simple enough for you to understand?

You're gonna have to get reported for asking if I'm stupid.

Ooo scary! lol

As for this content, it's already been addressed. Lots of people conceal their views if they think it suits them, women do it too. So what? What is unique about RPers doing it? Are you saying RPers always try to conceal stuff? I don't know if that's true. I feel like some people are pretty open about it.

"Bad faith Andy argues against the position that hiding unattractive traits to avoid rejection is unique to redpillers, falsely, as if an argument against the uniqueness of redpillers hiding unattractive traits is an argument against the impact of hiding unattractive traits on someone's ability to weed out men with those traits."

"Bad faith Andy argues against the position that all redpillers hide unattractive traits, falsely, as if an argument against the position that all redpillers hide unattractive traits is an argument against the impact of hiding unattractive traits on someone's ability to weed out men with those traits."

Are you still following me?

Again, people care about their public image. It's a thing. Are we not allowed to care about that? Or, if we're men we're not allowed to care about that? If you're trying to say that RP people are known in association as people who care about their public image, then that doesn't really say much is all I was saying. Because lots of people care about their public image and unless that manifests itself in ways that are excessive or extreme, I just don't see the problem. I also don't see that you ever mentioned anything specific as an example of something extreme.

"Bad faith Andy argues against the position that caring about your public image is a bad thing or abnormal, falsely, as if an argument against the morality or normalcy of redpillers hiding unattractive traits is an argument against the impact of hiding unattractive traits on someone's ability to weed out men with those traits."

Need me to slow down? That hamster wheel is spinning pretty fast.

Clearly, you don't understand how male friendship works. I'm a man and I have friends. I don't hold my friends 'accountable' to some 'standard of friendship.' When you're a woman and you're dating, just about the only thing you're accountable for is your dating choices.

Men don't have standards or expectations for friendship? Cap.

You've never heard of bro code? Or men ending friendships because someone burned them? Do men not make choices about who they're friends with? Are they just passively waiting to be picked as friends and then helplessly stuck with whoever they're friends with the same way you characterize men in the dating market as acting? Wild.

Or you could just take the advice that I gave you. If you really cared you'd think you would prefer that over more 'accidents.'

What advice? Give men with red flags a chance because he might be a nice guy deep down? Ignoring red flags tends to lead to more accidents, you know. Hence avoidance of the entire group, which is the best strategy if you're not an extremely low-value woman.

I don't know why the idea that women can usually but not always avoid redpillers and the RP prodrome personality is such a threat to you and some of the other dudes in this thread, but I can promise you the "red pill" does not exist in isolation inside a person. It is an ideology that is attractive to a person with certain pre-existing personality traits that are much more difficult to conceal than expressing an ideology alone. You may be able to hide that you watch redpillers on YouTube or whatever, but you're going to have a lot harder time hiding core facets of your personality as a whole. But hey, if women really do love RP traits, then you'll be fine, right? :)

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't know if this can be said for certain. This also is getting way off topic. We could consult some really rich philosophy on friendship but that doesn't mean that 'most people' agree. Deep Fried Frenz is a song about friendship.

"I had no idea I should've been concerned about my friend"

You're really reaching with this one. There is no doubt that I have concern for my friends. There's a difference between 'concern' and having information that lets you know you should be very concerned, in particular, about a specific person for a specific reason. There's one concern and then this other type of concern based on information.

Thank you for being so insensitive about my friend dying. That's really warm and empathetic of you.

I know that had I known something was going on, I would've done something. I didn't know and I honestly hadn't seen or heard from him for a while. I wish there was something I could've done to change it but I know there's not a whole lot I could've done because I didn't know. There were also certain people closer to him who maybe could've seen more and perhaps done better. I miss the guy, but I know I'm not to blame. I actually kept him alive one time taking him to the hospital years ago.

Your comparison isn't the same and I explained why twice now. And it's not 'strawman' to say that, nor is 'strawman' to poke holes in your argument. It's also not 'strawman' to say something you don't like. Keep saying that if you insist. Doesn't make it true by virtue of you saying it.

The same way you make judgement calls about literally everything else in life.

Like literally, it depends on what literally, literally means? Literally?

You are the one who brought it up.

No. That's just not true.

My post was generalized advice directed at women who presumably know their own preferences for the personal beliefs of the men they're dating.

You mean your comment? Are you trying to assert that you wrote my post? And that's not what my post is about. You can read the title of the post. Women's preferences might be part of that but there's a limited scope you can read about when you read the post. it's all there.

not going to waste my time

But you will waste your time saying all this other inane trifling stuff complete with hyperlinks screeching 'strawman' over and over. Please.

list of common sense

Then it should be really easy in that case.

bad faith dude

Based on what? Name calling again?

I'm currently with a man who isn't mistrustful of women, a criminal, a cheater, or someone with a past history of DV.

No one cares and your personal relationship status has nothing to do with anything we've talked about. Wanna cookie?

You can keep the baby and the bathwater, I don't need it.

I got mine.

Great comeback.

There's no shortage of men without it and there's no need for decent women to dumpster dive.

^ You just said the quiet part out loud.

Thanks for playing.

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago (31 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (30 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (29 children) | Copy Link

[–]RosieBarbBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]RosieBarbBlue Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]RosieBarbBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]RosieBarbBlue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]gntlbastardRed Pill Man 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

It's a really interesting idea. "🎵 ..I wan-na know what love is....🎵"

I feel like mens' love for women is unconditional to a point but probably more unconditional on the spectrum, comparatively. And I think part of this is the design that women, once they have children, love their children unconditionally. I think that men in romantic relationships typically don't experience that kind of love from their woman. I think that women tend to care a lot about what men can do for them moreso than the men themselves and who they inherently are as people.

That's just been my experience.

he’s easily satisfied

That's one way to say 'a lot more willing to be tolerant of her imperfections.'

Some of that is rooted in - men aren't allowed to complain so why bother?

Once you've started the discussion about what could be better with a woman, you're arguing, and once you're arguing, you've already lost even if you're right.

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (12 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (11 children) | Copy Link

men are pretty unbothered by things,

I don't know that they are unbothered though. Tolerating something annoying doesn't make it not annoying.

Does that mean he loves her more?

Not sure if this was the direction I was going exactly. We were talking about conditional vs unconditional.

Maybe, or maybe he's just more "meh" about things.

This is definitely an interpretation. Not sure if that's actually what's happening.

He wouldn't care if she left her socks on the floor every day, but she would.

I think that men tend to focus on some things in life that women don't and vice versa.

If he loves her that much, he should want to pick up his socks so to make her happy. Yet most men don't. How is that unconditional love?

I feel like this really next level 'unconditional' and I'm not sure that this is what 'unconditional' really means. Like, if you truly love him so much, then how dare you not do steak and blowjob every day?

I'm not sure that example is the spirit of conditional or unconditional.

Your example is actually one of a woman loving conditionally. Like, she's only happy if he does something for her. So, not sure why you think that example fits.

[–]lulilooRed Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Whoreasaurus_RexCobalt Blue Pill Woman 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]AngeCruelleBlue Pill Woman: The insufferable virgin strikes back 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]fiftypoundpuppyWoman in wolfloveyes' binder full of women 16 points17 points18 points 2 years ago* (5 children) | Copy Link

Probably by the definition of "having respect for himself" not being interchangeable with behaving in red-pilled ways.

Since per your other comment, red-pill means however we define it, the Venn Diagram of "a guy who knows himself, respects himself, and thus has healthy standards and boundaries in his life and relationships" and a red-pilled man has no overlap. I don't think a man who thinks of women as the oldest child in the house is demonstrating "respect for himself" with that belief. I don't think a man who thinks women only love what men do, not who they are is "knowing himself." I don't think a man who believes women are only genuinely attracted to the top 20% of men is "setting healthy boundaries" with that belief.

In essence, what I understand red pill to be - a "toolbox of observations about female nature" - has no correlation with any of the things you say are congruent with "respecting himself as a man," etc.

If you're so confident that a 'Red Pill' man is a bad man, why do women end up accidentally dating them?

This question essentially asks why, if accidents are bad, then do people still have accidents. I'm not sure you understand what "accident" means.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Venn Diagram of "a guy who knows himself, respects himself, and thus has healthy standards and boundaries in his life and relationships" and a red-pilled man has no overlap.

This might be what you believe which is fine. The basis of this belief is probably not likely to give you a useful road map for navigating life with men in reality. The other side could just say the same thing about feminist women. Doesn't mean it has any truth to it at all.

You have as well done everything aside from actually answering the question.

This question essentially asks why, if accidents are bad, then why do people have accidents.

It's not like you tripped and fell down. When you choose to date a man, that's a conscious choice. How do you accidentally do such a thing?

If your personal safety and choosing men who you date is important, and if Red Pill men are so easy to spot, how does such an 'accident' ever happen at all? Considering the importance with which you speak of these things and the 'ease' of spotting RP men, you'd think this kind of 'accident' would never happen.

[–]fiftypoundpuppyWoman in wolfloveyes' binder full of women 9 points10 points11 points 2 years ago* (2 children) | Copy Link

This might be what you believe which is fine. The basis of this belief is probably not likely to give you a useful road map for navigating life with men in reality.

I navigate "life with men" just fine, thanks.

The other side could just say the same thing about feminist women. Doesn't mean it has any truth to it at all.

Either fucking define red-pilled men or let us have our own definitions. Why argue with us and debate our definitions then, after telling us to define it for ourselves?

IDGAF what "the other side" "says about feminist women." As you're so fond of accusing women who answer your silly blatant agenda-motivated posts, with all their leading questions in pompous, loaded language, "tHaT's IrReLeVaNt To ThE dIsCuSsIoN."

You have as well done everything aside from actually answering the question.

Do you not know the title of your own fucking post? You asked multiple questions. This paragraph merely addresses the first. 🙄

Here it is, in case you don't recognize it

How do you tell if a guy is 'Red Pill' and not just a guy who has a basic level of respect for himself as a man?

Oh yeah, there's also this entire paragraph in the body:

'Red Pill' obviously means he's a super bad guy in some way. And men who are confident about themselves are supposed to be 'good' right? There's a huge difference between 'super bad' and 'good.' So, how do you tell them apart?

Let me know if I can remind you of anything else you've asked.

It's not like you tripped and fell down. When you choose to date a man, that's a conscious choice. How do you accidentally do such a thing? You know the purpose of dating is to get to know someone, right?

Are you aware that when you first start dating someone, you don't know everything there is to know about them?

So now not only do we not know what "accident" means, we also don't know what "dating" means.

And of course I haven't even gotten into the weeds of the fact that virtually everyone puts on their best impression when they are dating someone. Do you really think men are putting "I think women expire at 30" in their profiles?

If your personal safety and choosing men who you date is important

It is.

and if Red Pill men are so easy to spot

Some are, some aren't, but most would certainly not be forthright with the opinions I remarked upon in my previous comment.

how does such an 'accident' ever happen at all?

Already addressed.

Considering the importance with which you speak of these things and the 'ease' of spotting RP men, you'd think this kind of 'accident' would never happen.

I suppose you would, if only those were assertions I've made; believed in; and if people always advertise everything they believe about everything immediately. Unfortunately, on a self-interest level, that doesn't really happen, and from a practical standpoint, it's impossible. There are only so many minutes and hours in the day. Getting to know someone takes time. Which, again, is the entire point and process of dating in the first place.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

I navigate "life with men" just fine, thanks.

I was speaking of your belief not you as a person. Either way, I'm not convinced.

Either fucking define red-pilled men or let us have our own definitions

You can define it however you want, doesn't mean that your definition will necessarily at all be in touch with reality.

IDGAF what "the other side"

It's a conversation about ideas. No one cares about what you actually think about that specific example. It was an analogy. Glad you understand how absurd your point of view was.

Do you not know the title of your own fucking post?

Yes. It appears that you don't. Answer the question or don't, idgaf.

Are you aware that when you first start dating someone, you don't know everything there is to know about them?

Maybe you would screen them a little first based on things you consider to be important. If you're not doing that then it sounds like those things actually aren't that important.

So now not only do we not know what "accident" means, we also don't know what "dating" means.

It's not an accident at all if you choose to begin dating someone and you realize that you don't know enough about them to know whether they have some pretty huge red flags or not.

If those things are truly important to you, then you're making the mistake of dating guys that you should really just be in the conversation phase with.

Some are, some aren't, but most would certainly not be forthright with the opinions I remarked upon in my previous comment.

Right. So that's really what the question is about. Finally we've gotten to the place of understanding that sometimes it's hard to spot and it makes it actually a pretty complex problem.

There's no need for you to have the tone that you're having right now about it.

Getting to know someone takes time.

Right so you should probably get to know a little bit more about guys before you start actually going on dates with them. Might help you cut back on those accidents.

[–]fiftypoundpuppyWoman in wolfloveyes' binder full of women 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I was speaking of your belief not you as a person. Either way, I'm not convinced.

Yes, I'm aware that you don't believe what I say. You made that abundantly clear five months ago. What else is new?

You can define it however you want, doesn't mean that your definition will necessarily at all be in touch with reality.

Who gets to define that "reality," hmmm? What is the point of you having this super secret "real" definition that you're just going to argue with us about, instead of just giving us the definition you expect us to use?

It's like trying to answer a math question where you need at least one variable to be given but there are none. You are a consistent, repeated bad-faith poster whose only purpose is to taunt and antagonize women.

Just know that I see that about you, and I'm sure others do too.

It's a conversation about ideas. No one cares about what you actually think about that specific example. It was an analogy. Glad you understand how absurd your point of view was.

It was an irrelevant response to the topic of this debate.

Yes. It appears that you don't. Answer the question or don't, idgaf.

I answered the question you asked in the title and the body. You asked how we can tell the difference, and gave specific examples of the differences you were referring to. My answer is "the two have nothing to do with each other," so there's nothing to be confused by in the first place. What makes a man red-pilled has nothing to do with "setting healthy boundaries" or "valuing himself," it has to do with what he believes. I can tell the difference based on that, not based on him "knowing himself."

I directly answered your question. Because you're bad-faith, you're pretending like I didn't. Par for the course with you 🤷🏿

It's not an accident at all if you choose to begin dating someone and you realize that you don't know enough about them to know whether they have some pretty huge red flags or not.

... so, just to be clear, if I meet someone from a dating app, or was cold-approached, or even if I knew him from work or school or a hobby/interest group, you expect me to not actually date him? We should meet on a dating app, become friends for a few years, then if I think I know him well enough, start dating him then?

I just want to get this straight that you think dating someone before you know them inside-out, sideways, and upside down is stupid. Spend a few years vetting, then date.

Right?

If yes, do you think you could get men on board since they'd actually have to do so for this to work?

If no, then what exactly are you expecting women to do to get to know everything there is to know about a guy before we even have a first date? Be specific.

Maybe you would screen them a little first based on things you consider to be important.

Do you think we're not doing this already?

I just want to officially call out your absurdly unrealistic, supernatural expectations from women. "Screening men a little" is not, nor will it ever, be guaranteed to catch every single opinion or belief a man may hold that we would find repulsive. It is not, nor will it ever, be a foolproof method for vetting. Some screening can be done immediately, or on a short-term timeframe. But a lot of things people intentionally hide or do not disclose.

Do you think any man, if we asked him directly, if he believed women expire at 30 or are incapable of loving men for who they are, just what they do would admit it if these are opinions he holds?

Right. So that's really what the question is about. Finally we've gotten to the place of understanding that sometimes it's hard to spot and it makes it actually a pretty complex problem.

There's no need for you to have the tone that you're having right now about it.

Let me be super duper crystal-fucking-clear:

I don't, at any level, for any possible reason.

Give a single solitary flying monkey fuck.

About the tone-policing from someone who repeatedly asserts that I lie about my own life.

Capisce? There's also no reason for you to constantly insinuate that I'm a liar, yet here we are.

And I'm also going to call out the fact that this:

Finally we've gotten to the place of understanding that sometimes it's hard to spot and it makes it actually a pretty complex problem.

Is exactly the kind of shit I'm talking about when I said you're a "bad faith poster whose only motivation is to taunt and antagonize women."

You have zero genuine interest in our answers, opinions, or perspectives.

You just want to hear your own opinions and conclusions coming from female mouths.

It's why you always front-load your posts with a laundry list of restrictions, conditions, and requirements for the responses. It's why your go-to comment to spam to most of the answers is "that's not relevant" or "you didn't actually answer the question." You're not here making posts out of any real desire for engagement and learning. You're here to try to get us to say what you already believe. And since you make damn sure to jam-pack enough loaded, leading questions and conditions/restrictions/specifications on the responses we should give, any comments that aren't what you want to hear are de facto determined to be "off topic" or "irrelevant" or "avoiding answering the question."

For a recent example, just see, IDK... this very exchange between us where I absolutely did answer the question and somehow was still accused of not doing so.

Again. Just know that I see that about you, and I'm sure others do too.

Right so you should probably get to know a little bit more about guys before you start actually going on dates with them. Might help you cut back on those accidents.

Ah, sure. Just get the men on board with being intensely vetted for years and being 100% honest then, and we'll get right on it 👍🏾

[–]DietTyronePurple Pill Man (Red Leaning) -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]bloblikeseacreaturewhitepill woman 9 points10 points11 points 2 years ago* (9 children) | Copy Link

i don't really see any similarity or connection between the two. "a guy who knows himself, respects himself, and thus has healthy standards and boundaries in his life and relationships" is not how i would ever describe a redpiller. i don't see any reason why a redpiller who feels the need to lie about his beliefs would come across as being the kind of guy you described, or why that kind of guy would ever seem like a redpiller.

there are a lot of liars, abusers, narcissists etc of all kinds pretending to be something they're not to get into relationships. that's something you have to be on your guard for in dating. but getting close to another person and trusting them is always a risk you can't totally control, and they could turn out to be dishonest.

plenty of rp guys will just admit it openly. many will use dogwhistles in their profiles or while talking about what they want out of relationships. these and asking outright are imo the most useful ways to find out. and ofc seeing what they do. it's not really possible for a redpiller to get what he wants out of the relationship while pretending he isn't a redpiller, unless the woman already agrees what he wants is reasonable.

there's small tests that occasionally deliver very high value and can be used early on to save time. obviously not to be shared on here. a very helpful book called why does he do that, strongly recommended to all women with concerns about this.

[–]ConcreteforesterMan 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

It's weird because people talk about the red pill as if it's some kind of secret mind virus or something.

If you look at the original red pill, it's not that horrible a theory. Personal interpretation of course, but really it just boils down to "don't sacrifice yourself on the alter of what society tells you you are supposed to do". There's a ton of self-improvement in the red pill space as well.

That can be taken to unhealthy extremes, which is what I think you are thinking of when you wrote your comment, but that's the same with feminism, right? A woman can expect general equality with men and that seems fine. A woman can also take it to an extreme, and blame men for all of the evils and setbacks in her life - which is stupid and self-limiting.

There's actually a ton of overlap with what feminism tells women and the red pill tells men. It's just that feminism has had a lot more time to be accepted and fought over in society. I mean, you could take part of your comments, switch the gender and movement, and adjust the language so it fit how people talked in the early 1900s and you would fit right in with men writing articles decrying feminists. Example:

Many women will just admit to being a feminist openly. Many will use secret terms in their language or while courting with a man. Observing these signals or asking a woman outright are the most efficient ways to uncover a feminist, this ... and of course observing their un-ladylike actions. It is not possible for a feminist to receive what she wants out of a relationship while pretending she is not equal to a man, unless the man already agrees with her strange and unnatural beliefs.

I added a bit of flavour there for that real yellow journalism feel.. but that sounds to me like something out of early pushback against woman, but it's what you say about redpill guys. It's the same arguments.

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Why would a man lie about being RP?

Maybe to hit it and quit it? Obvious, no?

Why would I want to keep dating a man who lied or joked about being RP?

You gotta know that he lied first, right?. If he says something ironically and gets the laugh then it might be a joke, no?

Aren’t women supposed to be “choosing better”, aka not men who hold sexist or misogynistic views,

I think so. I think we're having a discussion about how to for sure screen guys.

who think they are funny/unserious?

Sometimes guys are funny and they get the laugh, and then they turn out to be the guys women were trying to avoid. Sometimes guys aren't even funny but they're super hot so they are received as 'funny'.

The comedian Gilbert Gottfried wrote this essay about how being 'funny' works in romantic pursuits. It's called - “Women Say They Want a Guy With a Sense of Humor — They Don't.” It's pretty interesting and a funny read.

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I think it highly depends on the context. I believe white women have more privilege than women who are minorities. I believe straight cis women have more privilege than LGBT+ women.

In general, I don't believe that women have more privilege than men in the USA, especially with the repeal of roe vs wade. We don't even have bodily autonomy. There are countless women suing Texas because they had to flee the state for life saving abortions. These were abortions of loved and wanted babies. Yet, a lot of people have decided that a woman's life doesn't matter anymore if there's a fetus inside her. Remind me, how is this privilege?

Not only that, Texas wants women who have an abortion to face the death penalty. Is that what you call privilege? Or am I misunderstanding?

Now, if you're one of those people who are going to harp on about abortion is murder, blah blah blah, women should close their legs, blah blah blah, you need not respond because you're part of the problem and I have nothing kind to say to you.

[–]No_Mammoth8801With Incels, Interlinked. No Pill Man 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I think it highly depends on the context. I believe white women have more privilege than women who are minorities. I believe straight cis women have more privilege than LGBT+ women.

Yeah, yeah, intersectionality and all that... 🥱

In general, I don't believe that women have more privilege than men in the USA, especially with the repeal of roe vs wade.

I'm not talking about "in general" I'm asking if there are any privileges you believe women have that men don't. If you want to factor in all the disadvantages of being a woman to win the oppression olympics gold medal, that's on you. But that's not what I asked.

Now, if you're one of those people who are going to harp on about abortion is murder...

I'm pro-choice (although I prefer the label of "pro-abortion" more because I find the "bodily autonomy" line of reasoning weak) so you can put your pitchfork down.

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[–]MiddleZealousideal89Woman/ ''a lot'' is two words 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

I don't understand the strategy beyond the general advice to recoil from things that you don't like.

Is that not a good enough strategy? If someone is saying stuff that doesn't sit right with you, it's probably best to not go out with that person again, no?

Sometimes it's not easy though and that's more to the point of the conversation.

Might be that I've spent way too much time online and the brain rot has infected me too but there are some things a guy can say that are if not red flags, then at least yellow ones. If someone tells me they're a fan of Jordan Peterson or Joe Rogan, that's a yellow flag for me. If they start talking about cryptocurrency or some other grindset alpha bro-adjacent nonsense, that's another yellow flag. I play by soccer rules, two yellow cards and that's as far as this whole thing goes.

Do you really know this for certain though?

Well, I've never dated a red pill dude, so I'm pretty sure it's worked out.

[–]Common-Call9064 -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Didn't know not being cool with your SO being friends with your ex is "red pilled" first I'm hearing this, lmao. Why does anyone need to be "friends" with their ex? Why do you need to keep an ex in your life as a friend, not just an acquaintance but you go out your way to have them be a "friend"? That sounds weird. You're only keeping them around, so you have options open in case your relationship falls off and you can have a for sure rebound tf outta here with this. It's so typical and a red flag, and men shouldn't be falling for this "he's just a friend" mumbo jumbo game women like you wanna play. I guarantee if you and your hsunad divorced you'd be fucking your ex in a heartbeat maybe already are.

This isn't just a guy thing ik damn well, a lot of women are not cool with their man being friends with someone they used to fuck. I swear redditors are a stupid bunch that live in a different reality. This is the new made up excuse for you to keep your ex around (aka your rebound fuck buddy when things go south) by calling a guy a misogynist how lovely.

[–]MiddleZealousideal89Woman/ ''a lot'' is two words -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Most guys I've known that have an issue with people being friends with their exes have also held other rp dingus beliefs. Do other people who aren't rp or even men think like this? Sure, but it's definitely one of the things that I've noticed rp guys have a stick up their butt about.

I guarantee if you and your hsunad divorced you'd be fucking your ex in a heartbeat maybe already are.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

As for someone needing to be friends with their ex - you don't need to be, it's a free country but I wouldn't date someone who pops a blood vessel at the thought of their partner being friends with an ex. Not the type of person I want around, and I'm not the type of person they want around. No idea why guys get so ass mad about someone who they would have no interest in expressing a lack of interest in them. I welcome the more traditional/alpha bro/rp dudes staying away from me.

[–]RelativeYak7Blue Pill Woman 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]FlightlessbirbzPurple Pill Woman 7 points8 points9 points 2 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

Approaching dating as an adversarial game. Negging/backhanded compliments. “Females” as a noun. Referring to himself as “alpha” or “sigma.” “What do you bring to the table?” A patronizing tone. There are little language choices that can give clues. A lot of manosphere guys like to follow little scripts, and some can’t seem to help straight up lecturing on their favorite topics. I once had a “friend” like this. Stopped talking to him because I swear this dude was incapable of having a pleasant conversation without being condescending or throwing some dig at me or women in general.

Most guys who are into RP content I wouldn’t say are those with self-respect and healthy boundaries. They’re former NiceGuyTM’s who are now roleplaying as MysteriousBadBoyTM’s. Of course if a guy really doesn’t want you to know and has the self-awareness and social skills to hide it, you won’t necessarily know. But those don’t seem to be the types of guys who are drawn to TRP in the first place.

And if he’s one who’s primarily or exclusively interested in the self-improvement aspect of TRP, there will be none of these giveaways, but that’s fine because I don’t have an issue with that and don’t think most women do.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Approaching dating as an adversarial game.

Are we supposed to tolerate women who do this?

“Females” as a noun.

I still don't understand this. I get the angle, but men don't flip out when being called 'males.' I mean FDS goes a step further and calls men 'scrotes' lol. Really?

Referring to himself as “alpha” or “sigma.”

I think that shit's kinda weird too.

There are little language choices that can give clues

Such as?

A lot of manosphere guys like to follow little scripts, and some can’t seem to help straight up lecturing on their favorite topics.

Such as?

And this is also a serious question. We've spent a lot of time on this post (and we're spending time right now) discussing womens' rights to steer interactions around getting information they need to evaluate men as potential dating material. Are men not allowed to do the same?

Honestly.

straight up lecturing on their favorite topics. I once had a “friend” like this.

A lot of women will use up all of your date time talking your ear off on this or that topic, sometimes that topic is 'the patriarchy.' And a lot of men are actually given advice in dating to show women what they're passionate about.

this dude was incapable of having a pleasant conversation without being condescending or throwing some dig at me or women in general.

Sounds unpleasant. Sometimes I'm perfectly fine if we're not saying much or always having a deep conversation we're both invested in. Dates should be fun not debate team.

But those don’t seem to be the types of guys who are drawn to TRP in the first place.

I don't know if this is really the whole picture.

And if he’s one who’s primarily or exclusively interested in the self-improvement aspect of TRP, there will be none of these giveaways, but that’s fine because I don’t have an issue with that and don’t think most women.

Sure, maybe not everything is toxic about it. You might be the first person to say this here.

[–]FlightlessbirbzPurple Pill Woman 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Are we supposed to tolerate women who do this?

I wouldn’t.

men don’t flip out

No need to “flip out,” it’s just a red flag because this is common language for people with certain attitudes to use. Context obviously matters. If I were a guy I would definitely run if she used “scrotes.”lol

such as?

Such as the ones I just listed. Topics they might bring up include bemoaning “western women,” feminism, or the state of “western society.” They may have alt-right leanings or mention certain content creators, probably know better than to bring up Andrew Tate, but maybe not. It all depends on how much they want to share their “wisdom” vs keep their opinions under wraps.

steer interactions around getting information they need

Well the point of dating is to find out what the person is like and if you’re compatible. There’s nothing wrong with doing this. For example if a man doesn’t want to date an FDS woman and notices certain “tells” that she might be, he doesn’t have to keep dating her.

Same goes for if she’s lecturing on the patriarchy and he doesn’t agree. They’re just not compatible. I don’t think talking about these kinds of things during dating is “bad,” in fact it’s good to find out sooner rather than later. But you also have to accept not everyone is going to be on the same page and may choose to move on.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I wouldn’t.

Imagine a world where it's either that or be single your whole life.

No need to “flip out,” it’s just a red flag because this is common language for people with certain attitudes to use. Context obviously matters. If I were a guy I would definitely run if she used “scrotes.”lol

Okay. I will scale it back from 'flip out' to 'bothered by it at all.' And yea I think 'scrotes' is a bit extreme. I point it out because while women take issue with the use of the word 'female' as an 'extreme' thing or flag of some kind, the other side has escalated to 'scrotes' and that's the point where it becomes unacceptable to men while men for the most part are pretty chill with being referred to as 'males.' That's kind of like why I bring that up.

Topics they might bring up include bemoaning “western women,”

So women are allowed to discuss how men are supposed to do better but men aren't allowed to discuss how women should improve?

the state of “western society.”

I don't know, there's a lot of extreme inequality out there. I think there are a lot of legitimate grievances about western society in this historical moment.

It all depends on how much they want to share their “wisdom” vs keep their opinions under wraps.

Right and that's kind of the point of the post.

if a man doesn’t want to date an FDS woman

It's acceptable to reject FDS women, but what about all the other 'feminists' who may not be quite as extreme but are still not good to men?

Like, obviously, if this was a discussion about how to avoid Taliban level traditionalist misogynists then the conversation wold be a bit easier right?

Same goes for if she’s lecturing on the patriarchy and he doesn’t agree. They’re just not compatible.

Should any man be expected to be compatible with that? Like, who is a man who IS compatible with that?

I don’t think talking about these kinds of things during dating is “bad,” in fact it’s good to find out sooner rather than later.

I tend to agree with this at face value but it depends on the context. I feel like men get grilled pretty hard for making the date more like a job interview and not fun.

But you also have to accept not everyone is going to be on the same page and may choose to move on.

That certainly is a part of life. I think, though, that it would be a shame if someone ruled someone else out, in a situation, where, maybe if they gave it a chance and didn't rush to judgement then they actually would've been pretty great together. I tend to get a lot of hate and denial of this as a possibility for suggesting this but the reality is that people are people and not things or words, ideas, or potentially false impressions on paper. And honestly in this historical moment, the 'people' part is something that's very much missing.

[–]Lilrip1998No Pill Woman [score hidden] 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Few Ways:

I used to go on their Instagram click on "following" and search for manosphere creators and peep the meme pages.
If it's a dude that approached me in person they're kinda easy to spot because they're hypersensitive and use "females" alot. They also do weird negging shit, triangulation shit, lmao pretty much their version of "cocky asshole" which is what they think women will be attracted to and it's just not my vibe.
Or I'll just go "who'd you vote for in 2016"/ "Oh my god did you _____ was Me Too'ed" and gauge his reply. In general I just try to drop that I don't fuck with that in the first few minutes of any interaction and *hopefully* it scares them off.

Redpill men are unattractive to me. It doesn't matter if there are a few "good guys" they aren't attractive to me. Some people won't date feminists I don't date RP men. lmao thems the breaks

[–]apresonlyFeminist Woman 🌹 karma is my boyfriend 🌹 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]Lilrip1998No Pill Woman 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]apresonlyFeminist Woman 🌹 karma is my boyfriend 🌹 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I used to go on their Instagram click on "following" and search for manosphere creators and peep the meme pages.

Okay. So you infocreep. That's actually a good strategy. What if you don't have their social media? What if you don't find the evidence there? Some people only use Insta for business nowadays. I think men are smart and cultured enough to handle their socials appropriately these days. I think this has limited value. You'd maybe catch the guys who are the worst about it.

If it's a dude that approached me in person they're kinda easy to spot because they're hypersensitive and use "females" alot.

I guess that's a red flag. Pretty extreme though. I don't know if I'd call that a Red Pill, I'd call that an asshole. The worst thing is, there's guys who act like that and it works.

Or I'll just go "who'd you vote for in 2016"/ "Oh my god did you _____ was Me Too'ed" and gauge his reply. In general I just try to drop that I don't fuck with that in the first few minutes of any interaction and *hopefully* it scares them off.

I gotta be honest, it sounds like you're the one coming across as the ideologically zealous asshole in this one.

Redpill men are unattractive to me.

You've never dated one? Ever? Sounds like you've spoken to some.

[–]apresonlyFeminist Woman 🌹 karma is my boyfriend 🌹 8 points9 points10 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]apresonlyFeminist Woman 🌹 karma is my boyfriend 🌹 11 points12 points13 points 2 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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I agree there are many factors at play which is I why I'm trying to get to the bottom of this in all of its complexity.

Charming + asks what i bring to the table = 👎

Charming + easy going, fun to be around = 🫦

I don't disagree. I do consider these fairly obvious.

Ask your grifters why RP narrative is so different.

I think that what some people think 'RP' is, is actually just the grifters. Grifters are grifters, RP is RP.

Aaand the stoic mask dropped and emotions spill.

I have not attempted to put on a face of any kind for any purpose.

It is simply to say that it sounds like, in your view, that if someone expects women to do better, then they're RP in your opinion. Is this not true? You realize there are women in the world who also think that women should do better.

It's also beginning to look like - challenges something you say or believe = he must be RP.

[–]mrs_sengNo Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

I think that what some people think 'RP' is, is actually just the grifters. Grifters are grifters, RP is RP.

And feminism is feminism while misandry is misandry. Yet those 2 are confused a lot because of grifters. Hence i don't consider myself a feminist so i don't accidentally get bundled up with misandrists.

You, on the other hand, keep the RP label.

I have not attempted to put on a face of any kind for any purpose.

Ow you did. I saw other comments as well. A polite, immutable, fake masculine mask when you first ask for clarifications and spiky when you don't like the answer. Your replies are not light hearted. The same thing happens irl. But then it's even easier to detect due to tone and mimic.

It is simply to say that it sounds like, in your view, that if someone expects women to do better, then they're RP in your opinion. Is this not true? You realize there are women in the world who also think that women should do better.

You seem inexperienced since you think wanting women to do better can be done only by using buzzwords.

Accountability in particular is a buzzword used predominantly by the manosphere. Just like Russia uses "fascists". You hear the word, you know that person fell for the propaganda.

It's also beginning to look like - challenges something you say or believe = he must be RP.

Not true. I enjoy discussions and seeing other people's POV and also expressing my POV. Light hearted exchanges of ideas are always welcomed.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

Hence i don't consider myself a feminist so i don't accidentally get bundled up with misandrists.

That's really cool. It makes me unreasonably happy to hear this.

You, on the other hand, keep the RP label.

I don't believe in labels. I also think that what a lot of people are saying RP is, really isn't RP.

It would be similar to if I were to say - this misandry stuff and this non-sense, that's not what feminism is. I think that 'feminism' now means so many different things to different people that it's loaded to the point where it no longer really has any meaning. You can use some clues, for example, if a woman describes herself as 'very feminist' or 'really into feminism.' This 'excess devotion,' just like in a cult environment has a tendency to open people up to more and more extremes 'for the cause.'

One of what used to be one of the core things about RP was acceptance of men who chose to do anything if it was working out and suiting them. There's not so much speaking to men who have happy lives and shaming them for not being RP enough. And at the same time there's a lot of guys who are openly willing to call out people they don't like for being to aggro about it. I think a lot of guys just want the content and not really so much the dogma.

Why don't feminists start drawing the line and publicly shaming feminists that they deem to go too far with it? There's kind of a whole silence with that. It's like no one in the room is willing to stand up and say it's ever going too far.

Ow you did. I saw other comments as well. A polite, immutable, fake masculine mask when you first ask for clarifications and spiky when you don't like the answer.

I'm putting no real thought into that part at all, just the content. It's enough just to keep up with all the responses. To think that I'm putting on this calculated facade is quite a reach. You sound like a conspiracy theory level nutjob with that one to be honest. I think I may be responding differently to different people based on their tone. That part is pretty normal. If you talk to me in a certain way I'll tend to respond in a certain way. Pretty basic stuff.

Your replies are not light hearted.

Is that what I said?

You seem inexperienced since you think wanting women to do better can be done only by using buzzwords.

Where did I say that?

Accountability in particular is a buzzword used predominantly by the manosphere.

Sounds like a pretty common word that could be used anywhere from school to business to everyday life. Really? What about 'apple' does that have a specific meaning as well? Shit sounds pretty wild, ngl.

Just like Russia uses "fascists". You hear the word, you know that person fell for the propaganda.

I mean. I don't really know. If you say so. It used to be calling people 'communist' here or 'terrorist.' Propaganda is everywhere. I don't know about 'accountability' though. They might actually just be talking about accountability. Responsibility is another one. I work with kids and we talk about personal responsibility a lot. Is that one blacklisted too?

Not true.

Well, I'm glad to hear that's not the case then.

[–]mrs_sengNo Pill Woman 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

Now here's how i know this is a lie. Ypu became spiky with the feminist egalitarian lady who i know for a fact has very good, compassionate takes and never uses a bad tone. Just like i said: the mask drops.

There could be any sort of reason or no reason at all for whatever it is you're mentioning. But you insist that the only explanation is that I'm putting on some kind of 'mask' for some reason. What reason is that?

I won't even mention the fact that I can't even imagine what could possibly be gained. Are you saying I'm putting on fake personalities for people? Why? What would I get out of it?

You are now asserting that I'm liar over this.

It sounds like you're pretty emotional about it all.

I feel sorry for you. I think maybe you just need to talk to someone. In all seriousness.

If I were putting on a 'mask' and just said, like, yea, I'm fucking around on this post (people do that all the time here mind you), it would cost me absolutely nothing to say that either way, so why would anyone lie about something like that? Just make it make sense.

Not to mention that i do not live in an English speaking country,

That would explain a lot.

And I know nothing of it. It's a normal word where I live. It would be bizarre in my country for someone to insist that a word as common as 'accountability' would be loaded with some type of special meaning. Teachers and parents all over the country would have to get out the thesaurus real quick.

[–]siletntiumI am -3 points-2 points-1 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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I don’t think all Red Pillers are bad. I just think we probably don’t share belief systems enough to have a good relationship with each other. Red pill people tend to believe a lot in strong gender roles in relationships and that’s not really my thing personally. I think whoever is best at something should do it. I don’t want to have to obsess about being perfectly feminine in my presentation all the time, because I have autism and I don’t have the spoons to do perfect make up or dress impeccably at all times. I’m also not a conservative or submissive, I have a feeling red pillers wouldn’t like this so I would rather save them the trouble. They deserve to have what they want which frankly isn’t me.

Honestly red pillers provide enough material about themselves on the internet. How would I know? Probably if they wanted to speak a lot about my past, if they were preoccupied with dominating stuff/the conversation, if they reacted negatively to me or brushed off talking about men’s therapy/vulnerability. If they mentioned being alpha or something along those lines. Maybe they might say they’re a leader or head in the relationship, didn’t want to be egalitarian or have modern relationships. Just things like that.

[–]Da_Famous_AnusMale[S] 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

we probably don’t share belief systems

Are you a slave to your belief system? I thought love conquered all?

Red pill people tend to believe a lot in strong gender roles in relationships

How strong are you talking about? I don't know. I feel like some guys are like - as long as I don't have to wear a dress if I don't want to. Is that a crime?

I think whoever is best at something should do it.

I feel like this is the premise of gender roles in the first place. I couldn't imagine why an RP or a non-RP man would object to their girlfriend fixing his car if she were legitimately better at doing that than him. For example, I'm single so it doesn't matter, but if I weren't single, I would likely, almost guaranteed, be the better cook in the house and would insist on doing most of the cooking because I value having meals that are good.

about being perfectly feminine in my presentation all the time

I don't think even the most conservative guys out there even want perfectly feminine all the time. I think probably just for the most part being more feminine than him most of the time. I don't think that's a lot to ask and usually shouldn't take hardly any work. Why would you not want to be 'feminine' in the first place? Like I don't understand that. Like why even make this a thing in the first place?

I’m also not a conservative or submissive,

I think guys just want a non-whore who's cooperative in a relationship.

I have a feeling red pillers wouldn’t like this so I would rather save them the trouble.

It sounds like your idea of 'Red Pillers' is some very fundamentalist Taliban level type shit.

Probably if they wanted to speak a lot about my past

What's wrong with getting to know who you were before he met you? Do you have something to hide?

If guys were dodgy like that you'd see women judging him for trying to hide that he was an ax murderer or some shit.

if they were preoccupied with dominating stuff/the conversation,

I think that's kind of weird and off-putting honestly. But if we're being honest, there's a lot of women out there who are into that, and there's a lot of men out there who behave like this and they get results.

they reacted negatively to me or brushed off talking about men’s therapy/vulnerability.

I would brush you off for that and I've gone to therapy myself. Women who are preoccupied with that is red flag in my book, like why be so focused on that? If you want to help and if you really care about men's mental health, be a good woman to your man. The whole vulnerability thing is a ruse. No one is shocked when women lose attraction to men the moment they open up. If they want to open up, fine, but why make it an issue? Why force them? I've gone through this myself and it feels like you've been emotionally molested. If a man wants to share something with you, he will do that. Your role is to be a good partner to him, because that's what you expect in return, as in he wouldn't force you to do something that you don't want to do.

Maybe they might say they’re a leader or head in the relationship,

The best leaders know when to follow, and they know how to be good followers. At the end of the day, the person held most responsible for the family unit in the eyes of society is the man. If you have a relationship where the woman calls all the shots and it fails, the man still gets the bulk of the blame for that. That part doesn't fair but it's true. I don't think that any paradigm has to be a certain way, but the assumption that women should lead everything is just as bad. But it's like you said earlier, best person for the job.

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Well obviously if someone is trying to hide what they are you can't always tell. Depends how good they are at hiding stuff.

But it's fairly common to tell who redpillers are. The redpill community installs a lot of reactions in men without those men properly integrating the why of the reaction. So you're going to find yourself just naturally interacting with a redpiller and running into over reactions and under reactions to really basic ordinary stuff in life. Because at those points it's the red pill you're reacting with not him.

For example you need to reschedule a date twice. Shit happens and it's all totally explainable and explained. The ceiling at your place of work collapsed when the insulation filled up with water from a roof leak and then all the paper records had to be rescued, sent to a document care service and the other stuff needed to be relocated and turned into a functional office and well there goes everyone's days, weekends and evenings for almost a week. And then you get goddamn COVID and well it was probably from the electrician at the new work site who was coughing up a lung. Just fucking great. Shit happens. Then...the guy you've had six dates with gets far too weird about the two reschedules. Angry based upon far too little. Pulling all sorts of tests on you. Well fuck. He's probably a red piller. So you make a note to call him husband material some time and see how bad he blows up.

Redpill gives a man scripts to use and intense emotions to back those scripts up. But it doesn't give him common sense. He probably needed the red pill in the first place because he had no common sense. And now he still has no common sense but he's got two distinct selves...his old self and the self that believes trp, neither of which have any common sense. Then there's the self he's trying to project which is an entire third self and is attempting to give the appearance of common sense... something he knows nothing about really.

So it's not a huge surprise women are working out when they've got a redpiller on their hands. If he seems kinda schizo and you're getting a different self projected by him every time...if he goes off the goddamn rails as soon as he's annoyed...if he over reacts then tries to redact the stuff he said....it's all a sign he might be red pill and needs to be actively screened.

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[–]Professional_Sun7586No Pill Stacy (Asexual) 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah, I do, I've caught some several times. Stopped others from falling on the deep end and pulled my brother out of it by myself.

I assure you, lol, you truly have no clue how we operate. At first this actually annoyed me about women, how blind you are. But now I have just accepted it. We can be ourselves with impunity and you will just not see it. There is no worse blindness than those those who refuse to see.

Yeah, I do. You lot share all of it online for free. The rest of it is pattern recognition and joining the dots. Next time, make it a private club maybe ?

Even if we do actually shoot ourselves in the foot, you would not catch on to it. It still slightly annoys me how blind you are.

Referring to the top of my message. Yeah I do, you don't want to acknowledge that and that's fine. It does not matter either way what you think.

[–]cameron339Purple Pill Man 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]DecisionPlastic9740 -1 points0 points1 point 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–][deleted] 2 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]ladyindev 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Title	How do you tell if a guy is 'Red Pill' and not just a guy who has a basic level of respect for himself as a man?
Author	Da_Famous_Anus
Upvotes	1
Comments	304
Date	May 29, 2024 9:51 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1d3npkq/how_do_you_tell_if_a_guy_is_red_pill_and_not_just/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/how-do-you-tell-if-a-guy-is-red-pill-and-not-just.1519970 https://theredarchive.com/post/1519970

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