Women have a starry-eyed view of "careers" and are less likely to take on a breadwinner mindset

NarniaFox · 2021-02-18T04:37:50+00:00

Yet education, medicine, child/senior care and service work are full of women and I doubt a lot of people would say that these fields are easy or really that fulfilling. Plus, at least in Russia it's also jurisdiction, any sorts of accountants and most state-funded jobs that also aren't what one would call interesting/fulfilling.

Plus, we could argue whether journalism as a field is really less demanding than some other white collar jobs. A lot of fields are paid less than, for example, IT industry, but it doesn't mean that they're relatively easier or demand less time or energy. School teachers have evenings for themselves, but I bet most people would prefer to work full day as a developer rather than a math teacher.

I'm not sure about a majority of women, because we know that in the US there are around 30% of household with breadwinning wife and we don't know for sure how many households have similar earning spouses.

Your claim is partially true though, at least for Russia. It's a part of a vicious circle - boys are taught that they have to be breadwinners, girls that they have to find a good husband and that they shouldn't choose a demanding field because they're future wives and mothers. As a result a man really has to be a breadwinner because his wife can't support herself and children and this crappy idea gets handed over and over again. But I'm not sure that it's true for a majority of women and weirdly enough it's more common among less fortunate social class, when families with better income usually try to push their daughters for something like accounting, medicine or jurisdiction.

randomlightbulb12 · 2021-02-18T04:38:12+00:00

I'm a man and I think I would personally find raising a family far more fulfilling than a job. Maybe I'm a bitch though idk.

Ladyofblades · 2021-02-18T08:53:13+00:00

I don’t think you have much experience with women in hard driving, cerebral or high paying careers otherwise you wouldn’t be saying this. The type of person matters more than their gender. There are men drifting about aimlessly romanticizing careers as well.

My mother at one point was on call at 3 different hospitals. She’s a doctor who’s also been to war torn high risk areas on medical missions and is afraid of no one. She’s a badass.

MisterShogunate · 2021-02-18T06:03:33+00:00

You just encountered a group of #bossbabes. Though your post is pretty articulate, you are generalizing the entire population of working women based on this one data point.

Hoopy223 · 2021-02-18T04:34:17+00:00

Those women sound like spoiled yuppie bitches. I wonder how they would like to get up at 4am to work at a bakery like my poor mother did. She’d get home at 4-5 just completely destroyed so I would cook on her work days.

Dan240z · 2021-02-18T04:33:49+00:00

It's all economic inflation is so high it takes 2 income's to run a household the best way to run a household efficiently is too run like a corporate balance sheet.

SnooDrawings4726 · 2021-02-18T14:07:38+00:00

The grass is always greener... women have a notion that the male career world was like a big gentleman’s club, all whiskey and cigar lunches, ogling the hot secretary etc.. basically a bunch of guys just hanging out shooting the shit all day

likewise men have a notion that staying home all day with the kids is 15 min of loading a Washing machine and then playing with toddlers all day

Neither of which is really accurate... work sucks after awhile, staying home day in day out also sucks... it has nothing to do with what your actual doing and everything to do with monotonous repetition... subconsciously we love repetition, it’s how we survive, through patterns and systems... consciously we hate it, it suffocates us, consciously we long for uncertainty and excitement, a challenge, a break in the pattern... a lot of women will think a career will bring this, a lot of men think staying home with the kids will bring this... both are right and wrong... it will for a bit, you’ll be excited and engaged with the change of pace, but like everything, you’ll get used to it, it will become monotonous and mundane as soon as the patterns and systems are established in your subconscious... they’ll be moments of satisfaction and fulfillment, but mostly it’ll be predictable drudgery And you’ll consciously start believing something else will fulfill this, and the cycle begins again

While I do believe men are better suited for certain things, and women are better suited for others (were supposed to balance each other, not beat each other... and despite some pseudoscience, we’re mainly run off basic instinct, biological urges and habitual systems) ... I don’t believe any of us are best suited for modern life... we just keep following what our parents and teachers told us like their parents and teachers told them and on and on...

LittyKitsune · 2021-02-18T06:38:11+00:00

Weird. When I told my parents the job I wanted to do growing up they gently told me that the words I was looking for were "hobby" or "passion project." Later on they told me straight-up they didn't think I should pursue a career that wasn't at least in the guaranteed six figure range like theirs. Waiting for a man to take care of me was never an option, most of my friends were raised the same way. At this point I'd rather be the breadwinner and come home to a happy husband who doesn't look dead inside, like my mom did while my dad stayed at home for a time.

Maybe this is a generational thing? But then I've seen other 20-somethings on this sub claim that the girls they know expect their boyfriends to be breadwinners so who knows.

sweatyapplejuice · 2021-02-18T08:45:29+00:00

There's nothing wrong with wishing it wasn't your career that had to take the backseat when you and your partner started a family. if you make the lower income, it's probably going to end up being you (regardless of gender).

I live in California, where the average male income is $39k, and average female income is $26k. I haven't graduated yet, but the average salary in California for my major is $140k. so statistically, I'm likely to make more than my future husband. if my future husband makes $39k, there's no way in hell I'm willing to sacrifice more of my career than him for the sake of raising a child. i expect it to be either split 50/50, or for him to sacrifice more of his career.

however, if my husband is a doctor he'll undoubtedly make a lot more than me, in which case I will likely sacrifice more of my career than him. that doesn't mean i can't be upset about that-- it sucks. i worked pretty hard for it (as did he). it's something more women should consider when planning a family. due to the nature of maternal instincts, women aren't nearly as willing to leave their children as men are. that's among the many reasons that having children leads to women falling behind in their professions, and making less than men on average. not anyone's "fault", but it shouldn't be a surprise when the birth rate in developed countries drops dramatically as female education rises.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-02-18T04:25:02+00:00

It's equally your call to value your career only for what it can do for your family. You could have made different choices.

No-Objective5240 · 2021-02-18T06:31:01+00:00

I remember reading somewhere that men have no inherent value, meaning that they have to prove themselves by working and supporting their families, compared to women who are simply valued for their existence. That's why women tend to persue their passions rather than a secure job with good demand. Because at the end of the day, if they can't find a job they can always choose to be stay-at-home mums. There's no societal pressure on them to work and be the breadwinners for their families like men.

CaptainFunkyMan · 2021-02-18T04:06:04+00:00

Women view careers like you say because they’re seldom forced to work really sucky, dangerous jobs to make ends meet.

Most of the women I know work in some variant of marketing or design and work either at home or in air conditioned high rises.

Most have no experience lugging boxes in a factory and being treated like shit. Whereas most of my male friends have experienced this, even if they currently work in a high rise.

Pre-COVID, if you went to an office block late at night, the only people there were cleaners and men. Tells you everything you need to know about most women’s work ethic.

i_have_a_semicolon · 2021-02-18T12:20:05+00:00

People follow their role models. My mom is the massive bread winner in my family so I follow suit. Women don't have as many career role models close to them so have to rely on their imagination of what it's like to have a career and need it to keep the family afloat.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-02-18T12:39:39+00:00

Just people who aren’t mature enough (financially or mentally) to have kids, having kids...

Birth control is extremely cheap... there’s so many ways to avoid having a kid... put as much time and effort into your birth control as you do sport bitching on Facebook about how your kid interferes with your (most likely shit) career and you’ll be in better shape.

Also, resenting your kid is super toxic. Tons of women can’t even have kids and you’re resenting a person who’s existence you completely control? Zero sympathy from me

Sewud · 2021-02-18T16:37:09+00:00

Hum no I come from a white collar/professional background and the women have had the breadwinner mindset since my mom's generation. She's nearly 65. All the women her age in our neighborhood were breadwinners too (doctors, lawyers, professors, psychologists, engineers, and none of that work part time bullshit).

I think you're selectively looking at the wrong kind of white collar professionals, the one where the woman has an easy job and the man has a demanding job. This isn't common anymore. Among women of my generation (millennials), it's almost entirely female doctors married to or cohabiting with men who work 9 to 5s.

Your example of a male doctor with a journalist wife is outdated, medical schools have been having a majority female student body for over 10 years. I feel like you're not connected to reality. What you're describing sounds more like rich families in third world countries where the wives get to fuck around while the men earn.

madhunnybee · 2021-02-18T11:36:31+00:00

You just generalized half the population into one single character.

Is there anything really bad about wanting an exciting career? Were you as a man automatically denied one or did your life choices do that?

GGMcThroway · 2021-02-18T15:33:27+00:00

I think women still disproportionately have this unrealistic view of "careers" as some kind of life-fulfillment adventure that they're entitled to.

I sort of agree with this, but just because it hasn't even been a hundred years since women have had as much economic freedom as men. A lot of little girls get told how lucky they are to be able to do that, so I can easily see why they'd have such a romantic viewpoint on it.

Guys who do the same thing just get called dreamers. People are still a little hesitant to do the same to girls "becuz sexism". Give it another 50-100 years and it'll even out.

mmt_advovate · 2021-02-18T16:49:34+00:00

I know this sub hates talking about race, but I find that most women who have high paying careers are 1st or 2nd gen Americans. Really makes me wonder whether Western values actually leads to better career aspects for women.

Think4Yoself · 2021-02-18T17:16:13+00:00

I’ve never understood how women could view second wave feminism as a win. The most valuable thing in the world is your time. Women got to invest it in their children and their communities and when their children were able to be largely self-sufficient they could spend that time however they wanted.

My grandfather traded 100,000 hours of his life for money working a manual labor job, outdoors, on the railroad in central Pennsylvania. My grandmother traded zero hours of her life for money. They had the exact same lifestyle and somehow women were convinced they were the ones getting screwed over. What kind of fucking moron wants to work?

Texan2116 · 2021-02-18T05:48:39+00:00

My now ex wife who gambled away well north of 6 figures...actually stated in one of her therapy diaries, that it was my job to provide, and what was hers, was hers. And as soon as I made enough for her to stay home..she got bored and cheated on me.

MalloryTheRapper · 2021-02-18T08:40:11+00:00

yeah i’m not about to hear this from you while my mom sat there and supported my whole family on her income, then came home to take care of us kids and cook dinner. she put the team on her fucking back. my dad had jobs here and there until he got sick but my mom had always been the breadwinner. you literally don’t know everyones situation. i’m tired of hearing that men are the hard workers. the amount of women I have sat there and watched them work long hours to support their family while their man has no job and uses their car while they’re off working.

poppy_blu · 2021-02-18T08:44:26+00:00

women are still much more likely to take on lite collar jobs

What do you do for a living OP?

Gilmoregirlin · 2021-02-18T11:06:47+00:00

There is a lot that goes into this. Let me start off by saying that I am a female lawyer myself, a partner in a fairly large litigation firm, and so I have a career that makes me a primary breadwinner and is not one that you describe above. I do not have children, I am married. That being said when my husband and I discussed the possibility of having children it was still his automatic assumption that I would be the one to cut back my hours or stay at home in order to raise the children. Now please understand that my husband is a fairly modern man in most ways, and I think he was even shocked to hear those words come out of his mouth, but this was how ingrained in his mind the roles were. After a second or so he stopped and realized that it would make no sense because the financial mind of his understood that it would only make more sense for the personal making more money to continue to work, unless of course that person wanted to stay home. In my field most of the other female lawyers and partners still end up being the primary parents, many have quit their jobs or had to take on reduced hours at the firm even though they make more money or equal money to their husbands because their husbands still expect them to take on these roles. This is true of my female friends that are doctors or Other high wage earners. So what happens is that men often subconsciously or often on purpose seek out women with these lofty career goals or careers that they would willingly step away from so they can care for the children. Because i they married say a lawyer or a woman who loved her job or had a very successful job, she would be less willing to step away and it would make less financial sense for the family. So it would be harder to justify in a man’s mind his lawyer wife staying at home when they needed the money than his story book writer wife and he does not want to be i that position. Likewise many women are drawn to these types of careers because they want to be attractive to men as wives or Mothers or they’d ant to be able to be Mothers and without supportive partners getting ahead is very difficult in certain careers. So I think this is in large part the problem. I have spoken to many of my male colleagues even the younger ones who chose to marry women who have some of the careers you describe and their explanation was very similar to what I gave, someone needs to raise the kids and run the household and if she has the same or higher career than I do, who will that be? They want wives with jobs, they don’t want wives that are not educated (at least not the younger ones) but they don’t want wives in high demand, high money jobs.

Sid_Insidious · 2021-02-18T16:59:02+00:00

He works 60 hours per week. Her, 40.

She should be doing the first 20 hours of cooking, cleaning and "household management".

60 = 40 + 20.

Trouble is women think his 60 equals her 40 because they "both work".

Women suck at math.

Novadina · 2021-02-18T04:53:45+00:00

Maybe it’s just the crowd you hang out with? I think you have some selection bias here.

I chose my career specifically because I wanted to do something I enjoy, that stimulates my mind, and isn’t boring. My dad is a mathematician and told me since we have to spend so much time working to live, I would be happiest with a job doing something I love, and if I loved it I’d be invested in increasing the skill set - and I followed his advice. I don’t think wanting fulfilling work is a bad thing, nor does it make that job worth less. If there is a demand for it and someone is willing to pay for it, then someone needs to do it.

My job isn’t a hard job, it’s not dangerous, I don’t have to work some awful amount of hours (mainly because I make sure to pick teams where work-life balance are priorities), I can set my own schedule. Money was only important in that I make enough to take care of myself (and my family, when I still thought I might have kids), I wasn’t looking to get rich. Coincidently, this industry exploded and now pays a ton, and of course now men are going on about how women just “naturally” don’t like to do this kind of job, because they are just “too hard”. But my job is something I taught myself as a hobby starting when I was a kid! I do have to continuously learn a lot for my job, but that’s fine because I love learning, especially about tech.

I work for a huge company (one of the top tech companies), there are tons of women... all the women here are probably not looking at their career as you are saying. And among my close friends that I didn’t meet through work, one woman is a librarian/researcher (she gets paid as good as her architect husband), one is an art director, one is a designer and always works for top tech companies, one is a non-profit director, one is in HR for a top company, one is a biologist, and one is a hair stylist. They all are happy with their careers and all help support their families.

You chose to pick something you aren’t passionate about to make more money, but that’s on you and not women’s fault. Plenty of jobs can still support a family even if they make less. I did choose something I was passionate about, which you are saying is somehow a worse choice women make... yet I also work in tech, which men always act like they are just so much smarter for choosing that. I don’t regret my choice at all, even before I was making a lot I was very happy with my job, it does fulfill me - I meet great friend at work, I get to work on awesome projects, and I get to code which I find very satisfying. If I told my self as a little girl I’d be working here when I was older I would have been stoked.

Substantial-Dealer76 · 2021-02-18T05:02:12+00:00

This mindset is also prevalent in the black community. A content creator called Kevin Samuels talks extensively to (and tries to dispel) the belief that there are all of these high value/6 figure breadwinners out there for women to settle with.

There aren’t.

I’m pretty much done with dating and relationships on my life so I am afforded some dispassion on this topic. Women are going to have to accept their life choices. They wanted the incomes and the careers. IIMHO it’s now time for them to “man up” and accept their collective lots in life. They can either “date down” like men did (and we sure as hell didn’t whine about it) or stay single.

Either way that bubble is going to burst while more men also give up on pursuing these women. Too many women believe their incomes make them more attractive but it doesn’t because if a man accepts that arrangement women tend to treat the man like a child and a dependent as opposed to a partner.

And although I do have empathy, I have zero sympathy, Feminism has long argued that they support equality. At the same time I don’t see feminists clamoring to get more men enrolled in college despite the fact that over 2/3rds of collegiate students and graduates are women.

On a side note I kind of think the whole sex robot thing is creepy. At the same time I do see a future in which more men will pursue blue collar and vocational skills (which these same women tend to look down on with disdain) while spending the 2 grand for the robot.

There’s going to be an awful lot of lonely people in the future and as they age out no one is going to take their places as citizens or as taxpayers,

alwaysonalongtrip · 2021-02-18T08:42:43+00:00

Yup, got a useless liberal arts degree had no idea I was supposed to provide for myself no one taught me about wealth I had financial anxiety for a decade. Everyone needs to be taught basics of how to provide for yourself as they reach adulthood. It was weirdly hard for me to find good information about what kinds of jobs I would find, what my future expenses vs pay would be, what salaries were like after taxes and withholding, what my student loans would cost monthly in the future, etc. this information benefits everyone!

If someone in high school would have sat me down and explained wealth I would have made very different decisions.

Jakes1967 · 2021-02-18T07:05:48+00:00

Women have a starry-eyed view of "careers" and are less likely to take on a breadwinner mindset

Modern women, are also staunchly against being submissive to their husbands, but totally accept being submissive to their managers.

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MalignantEgg · 2021-02-18T12:28:07+00:00

A marriage is a two person team. Split work accordingly. Household shit is work, making money is work.

I do find it a little ridiculous when SAHM’s whine that their husband doesn’t contribute to anything around the house. I’m nowhere near a “men’s rights advocate” lmao but cmon, his job is making money outside of the home, your job is taking care of domestics. Split the damn work. If I had to work a real job 40+ hours a week while supporting my spouse who stayed home, I would not expect to ever lift a FINGER around the house - sorry. Obviously I wouldn’t be a slob just because it’s not my job though.

Of course when both parents/spouses have demanding jobs working 40+ hours per week, the woman tends to get stuck with lots of household work. Most of the women in my life kind of prefer to do the household work because their partner cannot (or will not) live up to their standards (myself included - I’d rather do the housework my way, the right way lol).

Timmy721123 · 2021-02-18T13:26:02+00:00

If women want to be the primary bread winner and head of household, the man if you will, that's great. Find a man that wants to the housewife and you are set.

Reisiluu · 2021-02-18T15:23:23+00:00

the one thing that always keeps me going is my family and the need to support them. I am successful, and I take some pride in that, but I would gladly leave it behind and have someone else support me so I could pursue my "passions"

So why didn't you become a stay at home parent? Watch what they do, not what they say is a commonly used phrase here. You choose to work for a reason.

throw-away-1709 · 2021-02-18T06:47:30+00:00

Entitlement princesses at social work (blabber of the hens)...

Women often have a weird view.

Career beyond a certain level is pure war.

mirrormantra · 2021-02-18T09:21:18+00:00

Imagine complaining that you get to spend more time with your children. The mind boggles.

Kindly-Train-1045 · 2021-02-18T09:34:32+00:00

Maybe this also because women still earn 70 cents for every dollar men earn in many fields, and men have to work less hours than women to earn the same amount. So it's kinda logical that men are the main bread winners then.

Title	Women have a starry-eyed view of "careers" and are less likely to take on a breadwinner mindset
Author	havefunwithgod
Upvotes	92
Comments	379
Date	February 18, 2021 3:58 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/lmd55e/women_have_a_starryeyed_view_of_careers_and_are/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-have-a-starry-eyed-view-of-careers-and-are.748009 https://theredarchive.com/post/748009

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