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[–]Seebiscuit369109 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It will be unacceptable as soon as men stop spending money at these places. Socially I'm not sure, but if you make the tactic unprofitable then businesses will not do it.
[–]Lolthien158 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
As soon as men are less desperate to meet women than women are to meet men.
[–]friestogo53 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is the correct answer. I was having a conversation with two female friends at university yesterday and they said that men always offer to buy them drinks, and that they can basically drink all night for free. Pretty pathetic in my opinion, that some guys will spend a good chunk of their paycheck just to get the chance to talk to girls.
[–][deleted]31 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The message society basically tells men is that if you're not exceptionally handsome or exceptionally witty, you better damn well pretend like you have a lot of money.
Edit: It appears that I was uninformed and did not fully understand the idea of the "nice guy", but I still stand by my first sentence.
Most women have become so used to it that they don't want anything else. Look at the recent backlash against "nice guys". Because how dare you try to be friendly with a woman instead of just buying stuff for them!
[–]gkx2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I totally agree with you except for your very last point. That's not at all what the backlash against "nice guys" is about.
[–][deleted]2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Elaborate for me, then?
[–]gkx7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
For a long time, Reddit and 4chan (and other, similar social media aggregates) have portrayed the "nice guy" as the guy who is nice to a woman and then women start dating assholes (who are often "not nice" but also aren't typically depicted as rich or anything). Lots of stories in rage comic format etc.
Now, that concept is no longer the FotM. It's now the opinion of Reddit in general that the reason women won't date the "nice guy" is because he's undesirable, not because he's nice. The hypothetical debate is:
"Why won't she date me? I'm a nice guy and the guys she dates are assholes<sup>1"</sup> - Reddit before
"Because you're unattractive. Would you rather date an ugly woman who is nice or a pretty woman who is not nice? Don't hold women up to a different standard." - Reddit now
[–][deleted]6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm still not sure I understand why a "nice guy" is somebody to be demonized. Because they perceive the other men that women date as assholes?
[–]Beatsters3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Demonized? I think the point is that people that claim to be "nice guys" are potentially deluded as to why girls don't like them, and then rationalize their rejection by assuming that women only go for guys that are assholes. Getting a woman's attention is about more than being nice.
[–]alaysian6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Can't forget that some of these 'nice guys' are self-deprecating, not confident, or very overly attached with their friendships. All of which are traits that most women find unattractive, but ones that the person doing them would tend to overlook.
[–][deleted]0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You'd be self-deprecated too if you've been family minded your whole life, never had a hookup, yet women choose guys who will make them single moms.
[–]alaysian2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That self-deprecation is a cyclical problem, though. It might start because you don't have a girlfriend, but its also one of the things that will keep you from getting one.
[–]TheDiscoBastard2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Demonization is exaggerating or even fabricating negative traits to make a person seem less human. The goal of demonization is to distort an image of a person so far past the uncanny valley (or maybe so far into it?) that the audience being shown the image finds it morally okay to cull the person. Demonization is how humans justify brutalizing real people with lives and families.
[–]gkx-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
They view the fact that they're nice to be good enough for any woman to date them. They actually treat women as though they're machines (insert niceness, receive romance). It's not that they're nice, it's that they expect women to reciprocate unconditionally with romance, and then complain when they don't.
See this
[–][deleted]5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
they expect women to reciprocate unconditionally with romanc
No, they just don't understand why women date men contrary to their stated goals. Women claim to want x, y, and z. Mr. Nice guy has the traits and goals she claims to want. Half the women on OkCupid claim to want a guy just like Mr. NG. Yet he can't get a single reply to a message. He sends nice messages with proper grammar, never says superficial stuff like "hey baby wassup you so sexy", mentions contextual stuff from her profile, and asks questions. Nope, you're not even worth a "No thanks". So, Mr. NG goes to sleep at night, alone with the discovery channel on for white noise, wondering what he's doing so wrong that he's not even worth an acknowledgement from a seemingly very compatible woman. Spending your entire teen and adult life like this will destroy confidence.
Instead, women date guys who will leave them. She claims to be family minded, but she chose to date a guy who isn't family minded, even a little. Single moms every fucking where today. She claims to hate hookups and players, yet she won't date a guy unless he's got game.
Nice guys don't want a woman who would let game work on them. The problem is that even the so called "nice women" do go for players.
[–]Wise-Cracker1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Exactly. I don't know why people, including MRAs, do not seem to understand this. upvote
[–]snuggle_bot2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree that it is pathetic to waste money on a total stranger as a way to try and impress her. But remember, this only happens to attractive women.
It is more accurate to say that if you aren't exceptionally handsome or witty, then you have to pretend like you are rich to impress a pretty girl. Ugly girls would do the same for pretty guys if it sometimes worked.
[–]caesarkid12 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Above average women (7-10) get so used to men buying them drinks that they start to lump all of them in the same category as undesirable. On the other end of the spectrum a man who doesn't buy them drinks demonstrates his social standing (in so much as he doesn't feel the need to compensate.)
Or I could be wrong.
[–]Gentle-Mang0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think you've got an overly simplistic view of the situation.
The nice guys thing is complicated by itself, factor in the psychology of why guys buy drinks and we reach the point where I can't be bothered typing.
I don't think its anyone's fault per-se, I think it arises out of different attitudes and expectations and behavioural differences between the genders.
It's all about the 'friendzone'. I see the friendzone as what has become an ugly word for 'unrequited love'. Once again you can see gender bias at work when a woman will be happy to empathize with a woman who has unrequited love, even make films about them, but 'I was friendzoned' has become synonymous with 'I am an undesirable, cowardly, lying, manipulative, frustrated male'.
One type of 'friendzone': Guy likes girl, decides to befriend girl under false pretences because he's scared of outright rejection from just making his intent clear, somehow thinks that being a girl's friend will make her fall in love with him... Doesn't understand female attraction whatsoever. He complains that he has 'been friendzoned' when she fails to return his feelings which he carefully kept hidden.
I don't have much sympathy for this type of friendzoned guy. It arises out of a fear to just be a man and take a risk. Because the guy gets so wrapped up in his own head that they think that a long drawn out lie will be better than a short sharp truth.
Girls will suddenly get 'Hey how about we be more than just friends' question out of the blue and get all the responsibility for progressing things dumped on their shoulders, which they don't fucking want. On top of that they'll probably feel like they've been betrayed, and I think that's where the backlash comes from. Now when a girl hears 'friendzone' and 'nice guy' they think 'guy who was too timid to make any moves, made no effort to attract or show interest, and just expects sex for being nice to me'.
This at least is how I see the backlash, as with many things I think it is based on an overly simplistic view. I think the subject is deep and varied enough that not every guy with unrequited feelings deserves this backlash or to be tarred with the same brush as every frustrated chump who has ever cried 'I was friendzoned'.
I suppose I understand, although it kind of reflects what I originally said. Those "friendzoned" guys probably turn into the guys who happily buy all the drinks for women. There's probably also something to be said about how a guy who fears rejection needs to "man up" while women don't have to do anything, but I'm far too tired to elaborate.
[–]Gentle-Mang1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Nah I don't think that drink buying is a result of friendzoning or the mentality of friendzoning... Well, maybe the same kind of mindset, that timidness. i.e. the average male.
As for why men are expected to buy drinks.
I think there's some deep instinctual elements to it, millions of years of being the provider and showing that you can provide, it has probably made an impression on a man's default mentality towards courtship
There's also probably a cultural expectation for the drink buying which is a holdover from previous generations when men simply had to buy the drinks because women didn't have money to throw around.
I think there can very easily be a concious ritual that the girl indicates or asks to be bought a drink in order to test the guy's reactions
It could be an outright manipulative thing where women will exploit it in order to get free drinks.
The guy encounters a situation where he feels obliged to be buying the drink, he thinks 'Oh no! if I don't buy the drink this pretty girl might stop talking to me!' This guy doesn't realise that he's not going to get laid anyway with an attitude like that.
If you ever buy a drink for a girl that you don't already know, you're an idiot. Most successes with women in bars that I've had, I haven't bought shit for the girl. Flat out refusing to buy drinks is great. It's part of a set of behaviour that is more attractive to women than just doing whatever they say, it's cheaper, and it screens out the manipulative girls who only want you for tonight's walking wallet.
[–]bunker_man1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Not always. A lot of the drink buyers are the people who actually get the sex they want. Many of the rest are people who are close, but are not quite there. Some are creepy perverts who WISH they could be friendzoned.
[–]bhavbhav1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Very well put.
[–]Harddaysnight19906 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I have a cousin who's been smoking pot for two years. And she's bought only a few times because she expects her guy friends to smoke her out. That's what she told me.
[–]Beatsters4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's hardly a gender issue.
[–]jollygnome1231 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I never bought for a chick unless I got something in exchange. I always get my money's worth.
[–]Harddaysnight19901 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well, that's also a negative way to do it. What I told her that she should do is buy her own damned pot and offer to chip in for the toke. If they refuse, let them smoke her out. If she pitches in, at least she's not being that asshole.
[–]ExpendableOne3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What's pathetic is that there are women who are willing to take advantage of men who have low self-esteem, who are lonely or who are in an emotionally vulnerable position, without the slightest hint of guilt or remorse. If it was men taking advantage of vulnerable women, even in ways in which those women benefit, they would still be considered assholes, douche-bags and predators.
[–]masterdingo2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
A prostitute by any other name...
[–]unexpecteditem1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is the correct answer.
Only if willingness to pay is the same thing as desperate to meet.
[–]joedude1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
yea its hilarious.
[–]dungone5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This becomes a huge circular argument. You can't rule out that men are more desperate because it's a lot harder for them to do so and price discrimination such as this is one of the many forms of discrimination that makes things harder on men.
Why are men willing to go to these clubs to begin with? Because of sexist attitudes against male sexuality such as Schrodinger's Rapist make it more difficult to approach women in many other areas where men would have an level playing field or even an advantage. And because women feel that they are entitled to having men approach them and rarely even consider doing any of the heavy lifting themselves. Which leaves nightclubs as one of the few venues where it's socially acceptable to approach women... as long as you pay more, buy them free drinks, and jump over numerous other hurdles.
[–]Lolthien0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I see where you are coming from, but I wonder how much of this is society, and how much of it is just the way of the world. Women have to work just as hard as guys to find a mate. But they do it in different ways.
Clothes, make up, hair, the constant worry about weight and height and muscle/flab.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are having to do that because men make them. But I'll say this in a heartbeat. If all I have to do is pay two bucks more to get into a bar, and I DON'T have to worry about having a perfectly cropped beard and I can get away with wearing the same suit twice in a month and I don't have to put up with that BS women do to themselves? Sign me up.
tl;dr: It is the way of the world and must be dealt with by both sides.
[–]dungone6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I wonder how much of this is society, and how much of it is just the way of the world.
The thing with that is, either way, it doesn't justify making exemptions to basic principles such as equality under the law.
Women have to work just as hard as guys to find a mate. But they do it in different ways. Clothes, make up, hair, the constant worry about weight and height and muscle/flab.
I don't think any of that is difficult at all in comparison to what men do. The single biggest difficulty I had ever heard about wearing makeup is when they have to spend their own money on it. Which is the most laughable complaint that I, as a man, can think of. Men have to worry about all of that and then some, including height, weight, hair, money, social status, etc. And contrary to what women tell me all the time, men don't get ripped just by lifting a couple weights for a few minutes. Presentation is only a "thing" for women because it's the only thing. That's as far as I'm concerned.
And just to throw some more cold water on women's whiny attitudes about how hard it is for them to find a man: maybe if it was so hard then they wouldn't go out of their way to make themselves unavailable in nearly every conceivable social situation while playing hard-to-get mind games in the few scenarios that they actually want to be approached.
[–]Lolthien1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is a fair point. Equality is equality, although no laws are being broken in this particular case, I can agree with your point.
Now, as for women being whiny about being able to find a man. I'm afraid that last couple of paragraphs really strikes me as bitterness more than logic or reason. Men don't have to be ripped to get the ladies. It helps, but being completely buff isn't even in the top three things you need. Women have a very narrow range of acceptable body shapes they should maintain to be given the time of day by both men and other women. Compare your morning routine to an average woman's, and compare your getting ready for a date and getting ready for bed routine.
Then imagine doing the woman's routine every day for the rest of your life.
I'm not saying there aren't some things that need to be fixed socially, that's why I subscribe to this sub. But I'm also aware there are social issues that cut both ways.
[–]dungone1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Equality is equality, although no laws are being broken in this particular case, I can agree with your point.
Equality under the law is a feature of the law, not of the person subject to the law. Unfair laws applied in unfair ways are unfair even if no one breaks them.
Men don't have to be ripped to get the ladies. It helps, but
That's not the only thing I said so I'm not sure why you're focusing in on it, but I'll get to that in a minute. Women don't need to wear makeup or fancy clothing, either. It helps, but... it makes you sound bitter for complaining about it (two can play that game... so I kindly ask that you stop it with the circumstantial ad hominem shaming tactics).
I'm a former Marine. I'm accustomed to waking up at 4:30 in the morning to go on 15 mile runs and working 18 hours a day, 7 days a week for 7 months at a time. While getting shot at and carrying 120 lbs of gear the whole time. Ever hear a woman say, "I love a man in uniform?" Well, putting on that uniform entails a lot more than wearing makeup does. That's just a fact and I'm only using it to illustrate a broader truth. I can assure you that every single thing that women find attractive about a man takes far more effort on the part of men - or is completely unchangeable and far more narrowly defining - than wearing makeup and trying not to overdo it on the bon bons. And men have to keep it up for their entire lives as well. As a matter of fact, because of things such as child support and alimony, men have to keep it up even after women decide to dump them or else risk going to jail over their failure to keep up with the things a woman found attractive about them at one point. Get back to me when women get sent to jail for getting fat on their husbands.
being completely buff isn't even in the top three things you need
Exactly. How much do you want to bet that all of those top 3 things are above and beyond anything that is expected of women? I assure you that this is the case and that as a direct result of this, after women get all of their mating business out of the way, they still have far more leisure time to relax and socialize and make other kinds of friends. Because their part is just easier and far less demanding. I can assure you that if women were expected to do the same things that men are and be judged as equals, their current complaints would feel silly to them.
Women have a very narrow range of acceptable
This just isn't true. You are talking about women who do nothing but rely on their looks, fail at looking good, and still do nothing else to actually find a man. It's a complaint born out of laziness and entitlement. I personally know a few great ladies who aren't like that, but women like them are far and few between. They don't have everything going on in the looks department, but they make up for it by actually doing a few of the things that other women typically leave up to men. And I respect that. But you won't hear them complaining about how challenging it is for them to wear makeup and look skinny - they will tell you straight up that it's far harder to do all the work that's normally left up to men. Seriously, hanging out with them is great because you will hear them tearing into the privileged little princesses of this world in ways that you never even thought of.
[–][deleted]3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The next question becomes: "Why do people care more when the person getting scammed is a woman?" Feminists will tell you it's "benevolent sexism from the patriarchy". I would say it's because of society views women as worth more than men, which is sexism toward men.
Scammed? Is there a scam here I'm missing? Not to be dismissive, it's very likely I've missed something.
But also, you say society views women as worth more than men. There have to be several caveats to that statement. "Western" society (obviously not middle or far eastern societies), Society in the last fifty years or so (obviously not before mid-twentieth century even in western society), "Society views women as worth more than men in social situations (because obviously not in fiscal or career-oriented situations).
Women may be viewed more highly in a very narrow purview. But I would argue that is where their natural strengths are most highly useful. Now, should men consider themselves worthless, or be treated like mentally-handicapped thugs who are only good for opening jars and bringing home paychecks? Of course not, and that perception is what I personally want to fight against.
I enjoy this conversation though and would like to hear if you disagree.
[–][deleted]14 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well-stated.
Don't spend money at joints like this, and let the establishment owners know why.
[–]ImBloodyAnnoyed3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Never.
And I don't have much of a problem with it, since it is an expression of Bateman's Principle
This is a sad setup for men. At first I thought, this isn't a men's rights issue. And it kind of isn't, it's a business ploy, not discrimination.
However, here are the realities:
This is bad for men in other ways than "discrimination".
[–]bookwyrmpoet2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
As a college aged male, the only reasons I go to places like that is to spend times with friends and enjoy the eyecandy.
[–]splinter7017 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I find that difficult to believe. On my university campus, there is enough eye-candy in places that don't require a fee to go through the door. No need to go to some sexist club/bar.
[–]bookwyrmpoet3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh no I agree, there is a sufficiency of such eyecandy on campus as well. I just happen to enjoy going to clubs with friends, but since I do not do the whole club dancing bit, I hang out and talk to people while admiring all the people who are dancing and showing off.
[–]abandonfish4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Plus its an environment where it's more acceptable to put the moves on a girl you think is cute without having a reason to talk to her (like a group project or something). These places don't charge men more because they don't like or respect them, they charge women less because it provides perceived value- most people like to feel they got a good deal- and more women in the club means more men, and more people/profit in general.
[–]ExpendableOne1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
But that's just a perpetual cycle. Men try harder to meet women because they are told that's what they need to do; therefor they spend more money to meet women. Men spend more money to meet women; therefor sending the message that they are more desperate and that women don't need to try as hard. Fewer women put in any effort to meet men because they feel they don't have to or feel they are worth more then men(because of things like lower prices); therefor fewer men are finding/meeting women and men become more desperate to meet women or are willing to pay more(something which they are now used to, being the current norm). You can't just justify these kind of harmful, unethical or sexist practices, just because they are a part of a greater system that is harmful, unethical or sexist.
[–]unexpecteditem48 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Isn't this just standard price discrimination where men and women are segmented markets, in the same way that students are given discounts for admission to museums, or identical DVDs sell much more cheaply in India than in the US?
Business will continue to do this as long as they find it maximizes their profits.
EDIT: In perfect price discrimination each consumer pays the maximum he is willing to pay for the product, and both profits and the quantity of supplied goods may be increased, as shown in this graph.
EDIT2: The video is in.
[–]ExpendableOne7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Separate prices by gender is still sexist, even if companies and corporations profit from it. Could you imagine if popeyes chicken decided to charge certain ethnicities more for fried chicken than others? The mere concept of it is simply offensive and completely unethical. And, yeah, men might be willing to pay a bit more for bars but do you not think that this could certainly have something to do with men simply being used to this kind of practice by now? You don't think that these types of practices actually perpetuate these kinds of predispositions towards men and women? If you perpetually tell men that they are worth less, tell women that they are worth more or tell men that they should compensate for women, how long before they actually start believing it?
[–]unexpecteditem2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Thanks EO, you write:
men might be willing to pay a bit more for bars but do you not think that this could certainly have something to do with men simply being used to this kind of practice
There may be a circle where business practice follows custom and custom becomes inured to business practice. Futhermore, it may be that the circle can be broken by legislating against the business practice. What remains to be shown is why it should be broken that way rather than by changing custom.
I hope that makes sense. Sorry if it's a bit abstract.
Like you, I cannot see the difference in principle between price discrimination by sex and by race. If there isn't one, then the two should be treated the same way.
Best Wishes,
UI
[–]psuedopseudo1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I have always thought this kind of price discrimination was annoying, but not really that offensive. But reading your post I feel like I am finally convinced that I am justified in feeling that doing this is not ok. Props for the popeye's argument.
[–]410LaxMD3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Thanks for being here before me and saving me a bunch of time quoting my marketing professor haha
[–]unexpecteditem3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're welcome. There is something special about this instance of price discrimination, however. See my earlier post.
[–]bro372 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think that doing it so blatantly makes it fall into "general discrimination". I'm sure you could have different price points for whites, blacks, and latinos as there are significant income gaps but putting a sign up with those prices would not fly. To price discriminated in a less blatant way, you could market the same product under different brands to men vs women (which they do with lotions, soaps, etc.).
I'm not sure who you're replying to, sorry. We must also bear in mind that this case of price discrimination is unusual. It aims to transform the product itself, by increasing the quantity of products sold to women and decreasing the quantity sold to men, the better to redress the balance between them, which in turn may make the product more desirable to both.
[–][deleted]1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Every time I see your username, I want to say "In the bagging area".
Unexpected item in bagging area.
We know what you're up to, and you needn't think you're going to get away with it.
[–]Rolten0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah, this is nothing to get all riled up about. Heck, I'm glad bars do this if it attracts more women.
[–]unexpecteditem7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I still cannot see the difference in principle between price discrimination by sex and by race. If there isn't one, then the two should be treated the same way. Earlier post
There is (or at least should be) be no difference in the way members of different races are viewed.
Yet there certainly is a difference between how the sexes are viewed. This is unchangeable. No amount of social change is going to make me want to fuck a man. So if the drinks for women are lower and there are more of them around in a bar, thus increasing the chances of me getting laid, then I won't complain.
Of course, this is an example that benefits both sexes. More females = good for men. Cheaper drinks = good for women.
Things start getting dodgy when the different sexes have to pay, for example, different insurance rates.
The point is it's illegal or at least socially unacceptable to price discriminate by race. Why should the same not apply to sex?
the different insurance rates make a lot more sense. As a male (from my understanding, if you have the stats to counter this then bring them out) you are more likely to get in an accident. Thus you cost the insurance company more (statistically) and they will want to charge you more for their risk to insure you.
[–]rbcrusaders47 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
this is one thing i have no problem with. its simply the free market. cheaper women prices means more women
[–]father_figa19 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is why discrimination like this is acceptable. Obviously you are free to feel about this as you wish but it is a symptom of why the behavior persists in our society. These things/ideas:
Guys who are OK with this type of discrimination (even in a time when typically their age-group makes less money than their female prey).
Clubs and businesses who profit from the exploitation of men
Silence of women who benefit from the practice of male exploitation.
A society that is not very concerned about the exploitation of men.
These ideas ensure that this practice doesn't change. Especially when they hold a view that those who are against the practice are: Losers, neckbeards, butthurt, or some other slander used against men to shame them for their inability to adjust to social rules or successfully woo women.
I think this practice is wrong and speak about it whenever it makes sense, but mainly, I have just avoided the places that would do this. You guys can have each other.
[–]rbcrusaders15 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The thing is, I don't see it as 'exploitation'. I'm with every other mens right issue but this isnt one that concerns me.
That isnt to say, however, that your argument didnt sway me at all. It is definitely a symptom of a larger problem.
[–]father_figa4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't mean to judge your belief on this issue. I know a lot of men believe as you do. It was part of the answer for the original question of this post. I'm sure that a lot of younger men particularly see this as a positive idea. Therefore, the likelihood that it will be unacceptable anytime soon may be unrealistic.
If exploitation exists in this scenerio, it is in using the lower cultural value placed on the role of men in sexual conquest and charging a higher amount to men for access to women who presumably want the same things.
[–]agiganticpanda1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Or it was the same price and they charge women slightly less (it's really only 2 dollars) to give the perception of value to bring more women into the club. While I'll agree it's an issue, when a business is about making money and men are willing to pay, it's a sad truth that a business will take advantage of it. Again the solution is to not give your business.
$2 seems like an exploitation to me. You could almost buy a candy bar with that! Whoever made that sign should obviously be put in prison for life or even put on death sentence because their crime is the most horrendous I've ever seen in my entire life. Think of the almost candy bar you could have had if only you chopped off your penis, moved around a few sexual organs and grew out your hair and boobs. It's almost a candy bar! Seriously!
[–]rbcrusaders2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Honestly. It's like some video I saw claiming woman's razors being more expensive is oppression. If you don't want to spend more, don't.
I don't like it, but that doesn't mean it shouldn't be allowed. My opinion on it is: just because you can, doesn't mean you should. At any rate, I've made a valiant effort to avoid becoming a customer at those establishments.
[–]unexpecteditem20 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If this is a club, it is saying to the ladies, "Offer men a crack at you for $2".
[–]danpilon8 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And here we see how it is almost always possible to flip any gender issue on its head and make it seem like sexism to the other gender. In the end, however, having men "take a crack at you" is not necessarily a bad thing, as ladies need love too. I cannot see an upside to having to pay more.
I agree with your first point.
The upside to having to pay more, however, could be construed has having the power to buy the chance to have a crack at women.
Please note I did not say I agree with this. My point is that this too could be flipped.
[–]danpilon3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And again, this could be flipped. Why is having a crack at women worth money but having a crack at men is not, and is possibly worth a discount? Ideally I could imagine a world where people would go to a club looking to meet somebody regardless of gender and the value of that opportunity would be equal among the genders. Instead we have a situation where it is assumed women do not want the attention of men even though they are at a club, so men have to pay for the opportunity to bask in their presence. In reality, do women really go to a club if they are trying to avoid the attention of men? Probably not in most cases, and in those cases they should be perfectly willing to pay the same cover as men.
[–]unexpecteditem-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Wouldn't that be back-flipping? I didn't say anything about back-flipping.
Considering how I have been recently described as a penguin on these pages I would respectfully ask for a moratorium on loose flip talk, please.
You don't seem to realize how much I agree with you. I was with you entirely up until the end.
in those cases they should be perfectly willing to pay the same cover as men.
Something sits ill with me about dictating to others what they should be willing to pay.
I did not intend to imply that I thought you were disagreeing with me. I was simply doing a thought experiment. By "should be willing to pay" here, I do not mean that an individual should be compelled to pay a certain amount, just that if you charge a certain amount, an equal percentage of men and women would be willing to pay that amount.
In the end, the price disparity probably comes down to the observation that if they charge the same amount for each gender, they get too many men, which is bad for business. That does not make it okay, however, as it is illegal to, say, charge more for black people than white people, regardless of the monetary consequences.
Thanks Dan,
Very good points.
I see now how, assuming we are talking about club admission, this is not a regular case of profit-maximizing price discrimination. In this case the product itself is being transformed through the mechanism of pricing.
Whether it should be outlawed for sex simply because it is outlawed for race is not clear.
However, I still cannot see the difference in principle between price discrimination by sex and by race. If there isn't one, then the two should be treated the same way.
Best, UI
[–]SenorSpicyBeans1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
And here we see how it is almost always possible to flip any gender issue on its head and make it seem like sexism to the other gender.
There aren't many things more annoying than women saying things like, 'the draft and alimony aren't sexist against men because society views men as more expendable, they're sexist against women because society thinks we're less capable.'
Really? Because I don't see you lobbying for a gender-free draft or alimony reform.
[–]Whack-a-Moomin-1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Up-side for men is they think the place will have more women to "take that crack at"? I think that's the logic behind it.
[–]unexpecteditem11 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Hair cuts?
Context is needed.
[–]DCbusy11 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No way is it haircuts. Men's haircuts are extremely cheaper than a woman's. Its probably cover charge for a bar or something.
At this early stage we can't entirely rule out haircuts. There may be a haircut angle to this.
[–]bored-guy11 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Big Haircut has always been in bed with the politicians. This is just another way they keep us down.
That's it! Big Haircut and the matriarchy.
I knew it was in there somewhere.
Absolutely outrageous!
[–]bored-guy2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why are men pressured to keep their hair short, requiring many haircuts, and women are free to grow theirs as long as they want. Exactly this! (haha)
[–]unexpecteditem5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women have freedoms, men have responsibilities.
[–]bored-guy4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I was just kind of having a little fun with this thread. Then you hit me with this. The haircuts are not a terrible analogy. The man is expected (generally) to be the breadwinner. That's a haircut. In many countries a draft or selective service type thing (not Canada, thank God). That's a haircut. Lower performance for one reason or another in school. That's a haircut. How short the man's hair is, and how long the woman's by the end of this.
[–]unexpecteditem0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Thanks. I get it. lol
Women haircuts are like $30-70.
Men haircuts are like $15-30.
So $7 / $5 is a great deal. How do we know they are US dollars?
[–]Wild-Eye8 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
With hair cuts they don't actually discriminate by gender, they just use the generalization. As a guy with long hair, if I try to get a hair cut in one of these places I have to pay the women's price unless I wanted to get it all cut off.
But I digress..
[–]mechesh3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
awwww, you are such a special socially awkward penguin.
"Penguin?"
[–]mechesh1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
know your meme
Go hang yourself, you naughty mocking uncle!
[–]mechesh0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
ok, you lost me there???????
More of your conversation would infect my brain.
[–]Eryemil10 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It already is here, as well as the rest of the EU.
What do you mean?
[–]Eryemil8 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Can't discriminate based on sex here at all.
Where are you?
Spain.
Is there a law against price discrimination by sex?
[–]Eryemil7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yes.
[–]unexpecteditem4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Which one?
[–]Eryemil5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
European Convention of Human rights and then in some EU-specific directives.
[–]Bobsutan3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't generally wish the US would follow in the footsteps of the EU, but int his case I do. It's pretty much analogous to the ERA.
Thanks Eryemil,
I thought you were talking about Spanish law as well.
Can I press you for details at the EU level?
Which section of the ECHR prohibits sex-based price discrimination? I don't recall price discrimination being mentioned at all.
If a court has issued a directive regarding this issue can you tell me which one?
best, UI
[–]Eryemil1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Which section of the ECHR prohibits sex-based price discrimination?
I'm not sure about specifics but the court has ruled on it in the past. Most recent one I can remember is the equalisation of insurance rates between the sexes
According to Google that EU citizens cannot be charged a different price for services than nationals when they visit another EU country.
Thanks. I remember the equalisation of insurance rates. That caused quite a runction.
We were going to get an amendment to that effect once in the US- it was called the Equal Rights Amendment. It was defeated by anti-feminists.
[–]TheKiwipie1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Rest of the EU? Here in Sweden I often see different price tags on shit depending on gender.
Just because no one's making a fuss about it doesn't mean it's not illegal.
[–]rawbface9 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I don't feel like this is a slight towards men. I think it's simply supply and demand economics. It's actually banned in my state on the grounds of gender discrimination, but I don't know one guy who thought that ladies' night was a bad idea.
[–]junkeee9991 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree. In most any other business or retail situation a policy like this would be wrong. But I never minded it at a bar. They're just trying to even out the clientele. I enjoy being around more women, and never got upset that they saved a few bucks. It always seems like a pretty whiney thing to complain about.
[–]Dann018 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Blacks: $7 Whites: $5 ... couldn't you just imagine the repercussions
[–]Harddaysnight19907 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This. 100% this. But, if you were to switch that around and say, "Whites $7, Blacks $5," The repercussions would not be as bad. On the same note, if you switch around what the board actually says, to be "Women $7, Men $5," there would be some neo-feminism assholes that would picket the place to get them to change it.
The difference between men and women is not the same as the difference between black and white people
[–]CyberToyger2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Black people are born black and cannot change that, short of surgery. White people are born white and cannot change that, short of surgery. Women are born women and cannot change that, short of surgery. Men are born men and cannot change that, short of surgery. Mind telling me how the difference between Black/White isn't the same as Man/Woman?
Yes. This, I think, is a good example to use in making the argument against the free market economics view.
Price discrimination by race would be unacceptable and probably unlawful. What, if any, is the fundamental difference of principle between the two?
men are not a protected class.
[–]N64Overclocked6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When the stereotype of men going into bars "hunting" for a lay is no longer a popular view of how men and women should react to one-another(both parties are at fault for this). So maybe in the next 100 years with our current rate of feminaziism (i know that's not a fucking word) and extreme masculinism (also a made up word).
[–][deleted]-2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is just in the US. People don't know how to have fun here. Women are scared of everything and are annoying. Men want to be those protein shake macho-man , and the only thing they do in a club in grind. I never saw anyone in a club have fun here other than non-americans. Teach people how to act in a club and this "hunting" will stop.
[–]Luxpreliator2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Women are scared of everything
I don't mean to sound discriminatory but that has been really hard on me trying to enjoy the company of women when they all think they are moments away from getting raped or something. Is it really that noticeable in the good ol' USA?
I don't even know how to explain this. The US is a big double standard by itself. But never I've heard in France someone being scared 24/7 of being raped, or being on a sex offender list for bullshit reasons like I see here.
As far as clubs are concerned, prices in France are generally the same, free for girls on certain night, but it's only because girls party less in general, so they offer free cover so more come and the room is not filled only with dudes. The thing is not everyone is there to grind all night on some chick they don't know the face of. I've never heard of grinding before coming to the US, I like to have fun instead of trying to seduce some drunk skank.
[–]N64Overclocked2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Yeah we have a lot of double standards in the US. After the Bill Gates AMA, I think I'm going to move to one of the Nordic countries...it's annoying that I can't find a bar where I can sit down with a nice girl and strike up intelligent conversation without her thinking I'm just trying to get in her pants or worse. I believe that this is 50% of the reason I can't find a sensible girlfriend
[–]RallyMech5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is simple incentivism. My local club does this, and ladies night is always the busiest night of the week, on a Thursday.
Before 10pm, 21+ are free, after 10 21+ men $1, 21+ women free, Underage men $10, Underage women $5. No gender based drink specials.
It's not the establishment's problem to fix, or the government's, just society. The root of the problem is the expectation of a man to buy a women drinks. More women = more men = more drinks purchased. The price difference is to keep the ratio favorable.
In certain college towns with heavily female oriented programs (nursing for example) the opposite case happens. Bars have to do what they can to get as many guys as possible.
[–]zrunner94 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This will.always be the norm, guys want to go to places where there are more.women than.men and this encourages that...
Edit I.always thought cake day was for gold.members and it was their actual.birthday, well guess not...cake day for me!
You seem to have a few extra periods in your sentence.
[–]zrunner91 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I typed that from my phone, the keyboard sucks and it's super annoying to fix so I stopped trying to...
Oh I know how that is
[–]Willy_Billiams3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I believe these kinds of "ladies nights" are illegal in California. I'm not 100% positive but I think this type of discrimination is not allowed.
[–]super_swede3 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Here in Sweden it has been illegal for several years to discriminate in this way. There's still about a 50/50 ratio of men and women in bars and clubs, no changes since before.
[–]AKA_Sotof1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Same thing in Denmark.
[–]pigglemoose2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Context?
[–]MaK_Ultra2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
man-baiting at the club
you can't come in looking like that, btw.
[–]I_fuck_birches9 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Still holding on to the belief we're all, except for a few, misogynists?
[–]MaK_Ultra-11 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Mos def!
You gotta link that proves it wrong?
[–]I_fuck_birches7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You're the one making the claim, you back it up.
Now, do show me that most (that's over 30 000 members) are indeed what you claim they are.
Go!
[–]MaK_Ultra-7 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
All too easy
[–]I_fuck_birches8 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well that's proof of... nothing? One guy does not constitute "most", otherwise most of SRS are self admitted stereotypical kleptomaniacs based on one post.
Also note that the post in question isn't misogynistic in any way, arguably it may be labelled as anti feminist. But being against feminism doesn't make one to antagonise women everywhere.
Even if it was, only 62 votes as of composing this message were registered on that post.
Now, that's 62 out of 61 000 who have expressed and opinion on this, of these 62, 50 upvoted it.
I know 50 sounds close enough to 50%, but 50 out of 61 000 is in fact closer to 0.081967213 %
Hardly a majority (that's what "most" means btdubs).
But let's chalk it up as a win for you, because fuck it, I'm feeling generous.
Care to provide examples incriminating the remaining 29950 misogynist members?
[–]Harddaysnight19902 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This has nothing to do with your debate, but I'm going to steal btdubs.
[–]MaK_Ultra1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Watch out, man! Right now he might be looking at what you posted 3 months ago and call you out on it.
[–]MaK_Ultra-5 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I get it. You are more concerned with numbers of inactive members.
But that won't tell you much. You will learn more from down/up votes. And even then, it's hard to pin misogyny on the members of this sub.
Let me ask you directly then: is it not a prevalent theme in our discussion?
Let's not pretend that we all act from marching orders. Because that's not the case.
[–]I_fuck_birches4 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I'm more concerned with some random douchebag coming in here and pretending to partake with us while calling us misogynists in our backs. And still maintaining that excruciatingly dense idea when he's incapable to prove it.
Not in mine, if you jump on those that's your fucking problem. Not mine and certainly not "most" of the sub's.
You now claim that 60 000 + is an overblown numbers, is that another study coming from the university of Your Ass?
It's also cute how you're starting to claim to know what I care about.
How pretentious are you?
[–]MaK_Ultra-6 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Denial.
Don't worry. We all go through this stage at some point in our life.
BTW: Extrapolation is not real. I made it up.
[–]I_fuck_birches0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh look, the traditional "i'll just take the high road nao and act smug, it's enough to appear victorious."
Do you have any actual point or do you just want to start childish bickering until you go back to your cesspool of hatred claiming victory after we both are reduced to refer to each others mothers as being part of a working environment we both no neither of them belong to?
[–]MaK_Ultra-2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
On a serious note: I'm done for tonight. Please get some good rest.
"On a serious note"...
Really? That's your closing argument? "Lel was joking all along?"
Once again you prove that SRSter are absolutely incapable of backing up their claims, of substantiating their ideas, and in articulating any decent rebuke.
All you do is shout "you blue meanies are all woman hater" and when you're called on your lies, you just go "Ah stop being so angry, I was just kidding!"
Is this all SRSters are good for in debates? Trolling the shite out of people and then disappear in a cloud of smugness?
Because that's all you just did. If you don't actually have a point, why try to engage people in a conversation here?
Dude, come on. You roll with a bunch of people that blame male rape victims for what's been done to them.
Maybe you should take a look in the mirror before digging through my post history to feel a little less shitty.
I thought you were done? You're either a liar or a hypocrite.
Go back to SRS where people will pat you on the back for your pompous attitude.
Unless you have a point to make, in which case: present it.
[–]MaK_Ultra0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If you dislike me so much, you could just, you know, not start a discussion with me in the first place. Nobody is making you reply back.
I'm not interested in childish bickering like you are inviting.
You said you were done. You come back.
You make claims without backing them up.
Yesterday it was that we were all misogynists, today is that we are rape apologists.
You are deliberately trying to be offensive for the sake of it.
Now you claim that shouldn't start a conversation if I don't want to finish it.
What was that about mirrors? Who started the conversation here after they said they were done?
So I ask again, do you have a point to make or are you just trolling like a fucking teenager?
If you do have a point, present it, argue it, and back it up. Otherwise just go post this link to SRS where you can prove once again that you are not interested in a conversation but just want to come across as a victorious little cunt.
I'm giving you one last chance to actually engage me in a conversation. But I'm not holding my breath.
Also
You roll with a bunch of people that blame male rape victims for what's been done to them.
What the fuck are you doing here yourself then? And shouldn't you realise that you "roll with a bunch of people" that blame anyone who doesn't abide by their fascist little hate club, where arguments have authority by how high on the oppression ladder the poster finds himself to be, not by how sound the reasoning is. You think R/MR is a sub for rape apologists? How does it feel to subscribe to a fascist hate cult?
I know your next few answers (if any) are going to be about how I take the internet too seriously and how my jimmies are rustled by you and that I so mad, mangry and i have beardtears.
So why bother? You think we're woman-hating dickheads. So you come join us. Says more about you really.
On the other hand, I don't go in your shitty little social club. Because I don't hang around places I find shit and with which I disagree with. (not to mention the fact that discussions are not welcomed there and any form of dissent is banned, think about that next time you can actually type a reply here).
So how do you justify you hypocrisy?
That first sentence is a lie.
Can you not post a wall of text when bickering with me?
What do you think about a compromise?
I say that the minority is the loudest around here.
I think a compromise is bullshit and suggesting one makes you a coward for not standing up to your words or acknowledging your error.
You accused most people on here of being misogynistic which was, bluntly put, pulled out of your ass. You said that simply to pander to the fempire.
If you believe most of us are woman hating shitlords, why do you hang around here? Simply to be a "concern troll"? To rile us up? To be the one voice of reason in what you perceive as a ocean of bigotry? To flatter and bolster your own ego?
Pray tell, what is the purpose of remaining in a circle of people you despise?
And now you're asking for compromise, why is that? Because you realise that your ridiculous claim is utterly unfounded? Or is it because you're so far removed in your own ass that you refuse to admit that you dun goofed?
However, if you do genuinely agree that the one comment in question was incorrect, I would invite you to delete them. Both the one here where you are re-iterating your ill advised stance and the one in the cesspool of hatred you come from.
\/\/hatever.
Let people read it and come to their own conclusion. I'm not going to stop you from tossing around insults and making shit up. Nobody forced you to act like this. Don't point your finger at me while digging through my post history and accuse me of coming from a cesspool of hatred.
Imma SRS troll
Gotcha.
[–]rapiertwit2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
There is so much else wrong with clubs like that, who gives a fuck about two bucks. An extra two bucks or your self-respect, which is the greater cost?
[–]NeuroticIntrovert2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This sort of thing bothers me a little.
What bothers me a lot is when this is listed as male privilege, because men aren't being commodified.
I'd rather be a valued commodity than unwanted and expendable.
[–]Beckneard2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Oh god some guy should do the "HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT GENDER I IDENTIFY WITH CIS SCUM?!?!?" shtick with the bouncer after refusing to pay the "male" price. It could be hilarious.
He'd get turned away. The bouncer would kick him to the curb, and threaten to call the cops if he got back in line.
Source: Bouncers do actually threaten to call the cops if they kick you out. I've been kicked out of a few clubs with a bouncer.
[–]jaheiner2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
They want women in cause men will buy them drinks, so basically it will become unacceptable when men stop going there and they get the hint.
[–]improbus2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is a complete non issue and has fuck all to do with "men's rights."
I'm seeing more and more of this kind of petulance upvoted every day in this subreddit when there are real issues to be discussed....you know, like divorce laws and VAWA.
Increasingly, the only things talked about here are Facebook posts and whinging about basic economics.
Everyone wants to be a victim.
[–]CarlJibbs2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When men stop wanting to have sex with women.
[–]Gentle-Mang2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well it's obviously there to reflect the "wage gap"... Right guys? Right? Because it's real? Right? Yeah?
Look, I'm sorry guys but I think it's submissions that highlight 'injustices' like this that are contributing to the wider community dismissing you as pathetic whiners. There are real, life wrecking injustices and nonsense going on, and posts like his just make you all look petty.
I mean come on, 2 bux extra to get into a club that hopefully won't be a complete sausage fest... Fucking deal with it
[–]FireReadyAim2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Free market.
Take your money somewhere else you god damn baby. This has nothing to do with men's rights.
[–]hewittpgh0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Why aren't corporations allowed to negotiate between each other to decide prices for the market? Oh right, that goes against the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. Who knew that the free market could actually be a bad thing every once in a while? Pssh, go figure, right?
[–]FireReadyAim0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
So your argument that the free market is bad is that there are laws making the market less free? Got it.
Did I say that the free market was bad? No, so don't go creating arguments just do you can try to win.
I don't need to win if you haven't made an argument at all, which is apparently the case.
[–]theskepticalidealist2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The problem is men will defend this cuz more poontang in da club innit bruv
[–]Ek0mst0p2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You guys do realize most guys go to the club/bar to pick up women. Cheaper drinks for women means more women show up.
[–]kragshot2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Not in your lifetime, I'm sorry to say.
Until the dating dynamic swings radically toward the middle in the mainstream population, stuff like that is going to continue to be the norm.
[–]monkeyuncle82 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I really dont think this is unacceptable its a person's own business and they can run it however they want. If they want to tailor to a certain consumer base they can do that, but that means that businesses offering the reverse will get more customers.
[–]vandramir1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I agree with your point about being able to tailor to consumer groups. It would be interesting to see if there would be any backlash to a gym charging females a higher membership cost with the intention of tailoring towards men. This would be a more similar example than a hairdresser because a hairdresser sells different products when it comes to the genders.
[–]SenorSpicyBeans2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This is not a men's rights issue. Businesses can charge how they please, and I don't want that changed.
Nobody is forcing you to support businesses who use such tactics. If such a thing were not profitable for them, they wouldn't do it.
[–]Aiomon2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Context? I mean in some scenarios, it makes sense. Like for haircutters, it makes sense for them to charge more for women. Where was this?
[–]TheKiwipie2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Well. To be fair, in pretty much all hair salons a womans haircut is about 5 bucks more expensive than haircuts for men.
[–]MiniMosher2 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When you start taking advantage of Capitalism 101: if a club has sexist prices, don't go in, discourage your friends from going in, look for clubs where it's equal and go in there.
What I find strange is that in my experience these sorts of events always have more men in them, I've been to swingers parties where single men get charged like £50 and single women go free, result? huge cockfest for some reason. Bisexual parties tend to have all-encompassing prices and they always seem to have a great mix of guys, girls and inbetweens.
I can't stand ordinary nightclubs anyway, I've never been so bored in my life if I'm honest.
[–]Adonovato1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When gay men rule the world...
[–]EuroMIX21 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What makes you think that we don't already? ;)
[–]Lecks1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
If you do then you're a bunch of evil bastards. >:(
[–]Hypersapien1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You might have included some indication of what this pricing is for. That would make it easier to talk about.
[–]Heterohabilis1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I think what's going to end it will be something like this:
1) Woman goes to bar/club that offers reduced cover and drink prices for women.
2) Woman drinks too much and has sex with someone.
3) Woman feels violated, and since she doesn't know her one night stand she decides to sue the bar/club for serving her when she was drunk and for providing the added enticement of cheap alcohol.
4) Because women are almost never legally responsible for their actions she wins her lawsuit.
5) Wise/frightened bar owners everywhere do away with Ladies' Pricing.
And if you think this scenario is too farfetched, similar lawsuits regarding Happy Hour causing men to drive drunk have all but eliminated Happy Hour in some jurisdictions.
You should visit Key West. The places there that have a Happy Hour make it last about 3 hours. No one drives in Key West because the island is only two miles across at the longest, and it's all block-style, so it''s quick and easy to get anywhere.
That sounds good to me!
[–]PowerWisdomCourage1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When men stop paying the increased price.
[–]techiejames1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Depends. What is being sold? Sometimes, such information makes a big difference.
[–]bronkula1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
As soon as private institutions are no longer allowed to create their own pricing scheme based on whatever criteria they see fit. Seriously there is nothing wrong with this. It's a problem of supply and demand, not anything more nefarious.
[–]Poueff1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It's a business tactic, it might be sexist but they don't care nor should they - it's what makes them the most money. It's like having a preference of men over women for the same job as the woman might get pregnant, while the man can't.
[–]skamnorth1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Its already unacceptable in most of EU I think. At least the Nordic countries. Instead, they go by hair length now, long hair costs more to cut then short hair.
I thought this poster was strange since I always end up spending 2-3 more times the amount then what my SO does on hair. His is short and mine is shoulderlength, and even though its now forbidden to name it a "mens cut", a short hair cut is so much cheaper. I always thought that pricedifference was the norm also without the law. Interesting.
[–]tearsandtears1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Personally I don't think this will ever change without government intervention.
To me it seems to be a natural consequence of men's higher sex drive. Men (of course this is on average) want sex more than women, and want to go places with a lot of women. Since women's sex drive is generally lower, they won't seek out men heavy places as much. To correct this imbalance bars provide economic incentives.
[–]dankNbeans121 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When sluts stop showing up for ladies' nights.
[–]drplump1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When you claim you are a woman and sue them for trying to overcharge you or prove it.
[–]procom491 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What is this?
In reply to the titular question: it will become unacceptable when the entrepreneur who established such a price structure starts losing money. I sell my property at whatever prices I please and to whom I please, and that goes for the proprietor of the establishment in question.
[–]hflol1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This doesn't bug me really. They do this so more women come to the club and more men can leave with a woman. Unless this is basic fees for something like a meal, then it's weird.
[–]LenientWhale1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I see where you're coming from, but women like going clubbing too. The only reason that this exists is because we justify it with statements like this. And as if it's not ridiculous enough, who pays for most of the drinks inside?
Where I grew up, in Abu Dhabi, if you're a woman you can get positively shitfaced every night of the week at nice bars entirely for free (there's a ladies night with bottomless free drinks at a different bunch of bars each night). That's what happens if you extrapolate on stupid models of price discrimination like this one.
Bottom line, if both sexes had to pay the same everywhere, there'd still be the same split of men/women.
[–]niels_henrik_abel1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Raising numbers to an infinity symbol is never acceptable.
[–]ilovegeorgebush1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
[–]Bobsutan1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
What is this in relation to? I'm guessing a cover charge at a bar?
[–]herbandmargie1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Hopefully never.
Let a private business decide how to run its own business.
[–]SexyGreenAndGold1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
That's weird! Usually it's the other way around... Which makes sense as women (generally) have longer hair.
[–]getfuckingreal1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
You shouldn't legislate morality, while this is unacceptable I don't want a law against it. Being an asshole shouldn't against the law, nobody is forced to go to this business.
[–]Seand0r1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Don't worry. I was in Brazil, me and the girl ended up going to a club on Gay night-- women had to pay $15 while men were free. Made me feel so fuckign good.
I don't see why they bother, women spend a tiny fraction of the money men spend in bars. I've regularly went out with groups of girls for years and the story is the same - spirits/wine at a house/apartment before and then into the bar where they'll often bring a small bottle of spirits in their handbags. Once that's gone, it's time to hit guys up for drinks.
I'm not going to pretend that this is only a few of them, it's all of them. Even the ugliest, with the makeup on and the lights down low, can wrangle a few drinks off different guys over the course of a night.
Women go out expecting men to buy them drinks and go for guys who'll buy them drinks. Guys go out expecting to buy girls drinks because girls are expecting them to buy them drinks. It's a circle and I've no idea how to break it.
I'll get a good chuckle at them offering promotional prices to women though because it'll do fuck all for their business.
[–]Sarstan1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When men accept being gentlemen or when women accept not being ladies.
Or was that the topic you meant? On a slightly related note, I have always hated calling women "girls." I've also always hated being called a "guy." I'm a man, damn it! Being called a guy makes me feel like some bum off the street.
[–]buzz74411 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
The only reason for this is to get girls to come into the bar to attract more men its makes for a really good profit is it right no is it offensive yes
[–]MRMRising1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
It will be unacceptable when men stop going to Ladies Night.
[–]ThetaOmega1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
No one seems to be mentioning that there are several day-to-day items that cost more geared toward women (some hygiene products for example).
Stuff like men forced to pay more for drinks irritates me, but its not completely one sided.
[–]4man1 point 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Pubs and nightclubs serve a valuable purpose - they help a discerning man weed out any women not worth the effort. If a woman won't buy her round of drinks then she is expecting to leech off her partner. Time to move on to a better prospect.
[–]DinnerBlasterX0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Actually that's illegal on so many levels.
[–]OuiCrudites0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Don't buy anything at a place like this
If it is an established club or restaurant write them a nasty review on Yelp
[–]jollygnome1230 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Men who go to these places have money to spare, women who go to these places want sugar daddies. How to solve this problem? Don't go to these places. Most bars have a ladies' night, good time to go if you want some very dumb ass. Women who hook up at these kinds of places are skanks anyway. However, you can always cheat the system: get a girlfriend from somewhere else (online, IRL, school, etc. (you know, places where you find classy women)) then go with her to these places. Give her money to buy you both drinks and therefore, drink for cheaper. God knows I'm not rich but I'm a college student with a wonderfully smart girlfriend in grad school, and we both know the value of a buck. Then again, we generally get wine for ourselves and friends anyways, and never go to these places because we're not desperate for attention from others anyway (fairly healthy relationship).
Moral of the story? This:
Got extra money? Go hook up with a skank at one of these bars and get AIDS or herpes.
Are you a smart and worthwhile human being? Get a girl somewhere else; if you're not finding anyone then you're the problem because you're not lowering your standards enough (or just not trying enough). Don't be unrealistic and don't be stupid. Never stick your dick in crazy or stupid.
This will be unacceptable when our culture evolves and retarded swaggots, man-babies, idiot-child-women and filthy skanks have been killed off by evolution.
[–]mccreac1230 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
When women get paid the same as men.
[–]goldsorter0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I am assuming that this is a bar or club of some kind.
This price discrepancy seems like a business decision made by the owner. Men who want to meet women will go where the women are. Making admittance/drink prices/etc cheaper for women increases the chance that women will be at this establishment, which in turn increases the amount of men who will go there to meet said women.
More total customers means more profit for the business, and I see nothing wrong with taking advantage of societal tendencies to make some money.
[–]cmcagle0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Do you mean the difference in pricing or terminology? I don't have a real problem with the former; if a bar wants to attract customers by playing Cupid, it may make economic sense to charge women less than men for a host of reasons (mostly tracing back to women's status as the limiting resource of reproduction). On the other hand, I am slightly bothered by the terminology; why are women always "ladies" while men are only "men"? Isn't "gentlemen" the proper gendered counterpart to "ladies"?
[–]stop_stalking_me0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Obviously it's because of the wage gap duh.
<sup>sarcasm</sup>
[–]shobb5920 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
This looks like it belongs in a male version of SRSMicroAggressions. It's a bar cover, who gives a fuck.
[–]phantom_nosehair0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
I have no problem with this. This is basic biology.
[–]blauster0 points 13 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link
Not a lot of context here but I assume that's for a bar/club? If that's the case, it makes perfect business sense to do that. Nobody wants to go to a club will all men and no women (excepting gay clubs of course). I hate sexism as much as anyone, but this isn't that.
The problem with this is that, if they're going to do, they really need to take it all the way.
We all know that the business reason for this is that more hot chicks attract more paying guys. The problem is, there's no distinction between hot chicks and... well... other chicks.
Sign should read:
Men - $7.00
Hot Chicks - Free
Fat Chicks - $20.00
Married Chicks - $15.00
Ugly Chicks - $12.00
Feminists - $30.00
And it shouldn't be either/or, it is cumulative. So if you get a fat, ugly married feminist, she's gotta pony up $77.00 to get in. With a policy like that, you aren't going to have any fat, ugly, married feminists in the club; and that's just good for everyone.
What if it were changed from "Men: $7, Ladies: $5" to "Blacks: $7, Other: $5"?
That's interesting. Maybe we'll find a place that will do something like that, ya know. Have different prices for sexes on one day, race on another, religion, etc..
I'd like to see a social reaction to it.
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