I noticed that many people are performative progressives

Zabadoodude · 2026-06-01T16:58:39+00:00

Most men that present very feminine are gay. People assuming you're gay if you act gay isn't homophobic. Most women are attracted to more masculine presenting men, so as a straight femboy you will have a harder time finding a partner. That's not homophobic either.

bondepart · 2026-06-01T16:46:59+00:00

A lot of straight people assume gender presentation = sexuality, and I think it’s because that’s why they do gender.

Acrobatic-Monk9735 · 2026-06-01T18:59:07+00:00

I don’t think it’s discrimination to assume a femboy is gay. Plenty of women like feminine-presenting men and once the man expresses that he is straight, there will be women out there who like him.

Expensive_Lion1807 · 2026-06-01T21:14:10+00:00

I think you’re confused. Being progressive means that you believe that people have the right to exist as their authentic selves and not be persecuted for that. The people you are attracted to not being attracted to you is not persecution.

You can be a femboy if that’s your thing🤷‍♀️. You can be straight or gay or any variation that feels right for you. Nobody should be able to attack you for that or prevent your access to the same legal rights, opportunities, and responsibilities that everyone else enjoys. Sexual and romantic access to the people you want is not a right for anyone.

Progressivism is about tolerance and equality of legal rights and opportunities. It doesn’t have anything to do with equal distribution of sexual access to individual women. Not sure where you got that idea…

Ok_Use7 · 2026-06-01T15:42:48+00:00

Maybe you mean performative social acceptance? I don't know what this has to do with being progressive which is simply belief in reform rather than preserving traditionalism.

Leftist spaces aren't some utopia of perfect people. They're filled with some of the worst people, regardless whether we think and believe the same.

PuzzleheadedRow9896 · 2026-06-01T16:11:45+00:00

I look at it like this: humans like things which they understand and fit in expectations and binaries they like based on their culture and the wider mainstream culture. Humans generically dislike and fear that which is other.

The more otherized you are, the more you are being tolerated to barely tolerated which is what you're referencing as performance. You are not being enjoyed or desired. This is true regardless of the space.

Conservative spaces have expectations. Progressive spaces do as well.

For you by description, you are obeying the expectations and norms of neither space. You are being too special a snowflake for people to easily understand you and fit you in their world.

That's a choice you're making and it's a fair choice. Our choices make our consequences. The consequence of not fitting into any box is that people tend to be less tolerant of you. This is the problem of a lot of political centrists to give a different example I can identify with.

I've never been conservative enough for the conservatives (I'm cool with gay marriage, don't feel the need to be cruel to trans folks, and support a social safety net), but I'm not progressive enough for the progressives (I'm financially conservative, believe the social safety net should have strict standards which are enforced in a draconian manner, believe in borders, and draw the line at transitioning kids, teaching about sexuality to younger minors, and I don't actually believe someone transitioning is that gender). And I could walk around the progressive spaces being like, "So much for the tolerant progressives, performing acceptance", but that would be a waste of time. They are tolerant progressives, I don't fit their scheme. That's a choice I make. They don't have to welcome me when I'm refusing to play by the rules and I know the rules.

Different_Cress7369 · 2026-06-01T21:29:54+00:00

Believing someone has the right to dress and identify themselves as the want to doesn’t mean that they’re obligated to find someone attractive. I believe that femboys, butch lesbians, furries, trans folk and flamboyant queens should be free to live their best lives without fear of persecution or abuse. That doesn’t mean I want to have sex with them.

DMmeClownPics · 2026-06-01T16:20:05+00:00

I agree that many people in broader progressive spaces are not as progressive as they want to believe they are. But as far as dating goes, even queer people have types. I’m only attracted to masc women and more feminine men (like twinks) but not femboys because they’re too far over on the feminine scale. I’m attracted to androgyny. I don’t know a single queer person who doesn’t have a type, especially when it comes to where that person lands on the spectrum of gender presentation. Women who like femboys are probably pretty rare and probably not straight.

GeneralBendyBean · 2026-06-01T19:19:31+00:00

I'm a 5'5" GNC man. "Femboy" if you want, though I don't claim that label necessarily.

Yeah, most straight women aren't into it. But the ones who are, really are.

Solondthewookiee · 2026-06-01T15:44:12+00:00

Someone not wanting to date you is not oppression.

EugeneCezanne · 2026-06-01T15:42:01+00:00

"Inclusive" doesn't require anyone to be personally attracted to your aesthetic. It just means they support your right to go about it and be welcomed in their society.

NGL, you're in a hard lane. If things continue the way they are, it won't be so hard for the next generation and the next. As things stand at this moment, there is still a much narrower band of attractive masculinity than there is of femininity. And yes, that does pose certain ideological problems in the short term. But no one is going to date someone they're not attracted to just to strengthen an argument.

duncan-the-wonderdog · 2026-06-01T16:04:31+00:00

Speaking as someone who's actually masc and black--I can actually pass for a man, I've got facial hair, none of that cutesy white girl tomboy shit--the average straight man is not checking for someone like me and I'm not checking for them.

Also, are those women who keep rejecting you actually dating tall muscle dudes or is that just what you tell yourself that they want because you know they don't want you? Also, better remember that a lot of these progressive white women can still be racist.

I go where I'm wanted, seek out people who actually want someone like me, and I suggest you do the same. Most straight people do not want people like us, no matter what their politics are.

You yourself acknowledge that queer women are more open to femme/GNC men, and that's who you're trying to date, right...right?

Wowhowcanubsodumb · 2026-06-01T16:22:06+00:00

Your last sentence is one of the most ridiculous things I've read. Like, you have to be told that queer women have different preferences than straight women? Plus, Jesus Christ the fact that men date tomboys has absolutely nothing to do with your situation.

AnimalLoose2402 · 2026-06-01T16:30:29+00:00

I’m auntie age, what is a femboy? Or better, what does it mean for you?

leosandlattes · 2026-06-01T15:31:37+00:00

Inclusive means people do not shun you in society for being your authentic self. You have the same rights and legal personhood as anyone else. It doesn't mean people have to date you or find you attractive.

This post is about as dumb as me saying men cannot get pregnant therefore men don't want equality lol. Or that supporting trans rights means you have to be attracted to trans people. Retarded.

EDIT: to anyone reading this, the original text from the post was just this:

so many men assume I'm down to smash and so many women want me to be their gay best friend when I want to date them instead

So that there is no confusion as to what was being responded to in this debate post.

Suspicious_Glove7365 · 2026-06-01T15:38:50+00:00

Not wanting to date someone is not necessarily a sign that that person doesn’t support “equality”. That’s not what equality means.

Financial_Leave4411 · 2026-06-01T16:39:58+00:00

You can’t negotiate attraction but you already know that and aren’t happy with the reality of the situation which is why you posted that last paragraph in your OP. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t make it false. Men specifically need to stop trying to force women to lust after them. 😑

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2026-06-01T17:50:59+00:00

no one ever told you "inclusive" meant "girls will fuck you no matter how gross you make yourself"

CloudsTasteGeometric · 2026-06-01T17:34:41+00:00

This sounds like a broad generalization.

Conservative men are, perplexingly, MUCH more likely to be into femboys, and that doesn’t make them “progressive.”

jorts-enthusiast · 2026-06-01T17:46:28+00:00

Progressive doesn’t mean non-heterosexual/normative by default. It also doesn’t mean that people are obligated to date you if they aren’t attracted to you.

love_in_october · 2026-06-01T18:17:54+00:00

Since when did including someone entail including them personally in your vagina?

Gravel_Roads · 2026-06-01T15:32:47+00:00

You’re not really being discriminated against if all these men want to have sex with you and all these women want to be your friend. It sounds like lots of people like you and are nice to you and want to spend time with you.

The women you’ve met just don’t want to date you.

Not getting a date is not discrimination.

Kaleidoscopetide · 2026-06-01T16:59:32+00:00

I agree that lots of progressives are homophobic as hell, and that’s fucked up. They don’t think about what equality really means, or they only want it for them and nobody else. That said, if you want my queer woman perspective, the “tomboys” men say they have no problem dating aren’t really masc at all—they have long/feminine hair, high voices, feminine mannerisms, shave in all the “woman” places, and wear exclusively women’s clothes. Theyre just regular feminine women with “boy” interests, just like how when straight women say they want a man with a “feminine side” they mean a 100% masculine hunk who keeps up with Love Island. Masculine women who wear men’s clothing, have short hair, deep voices, masculine mannerisms, and masc body hair are rejected by straight men as uniformly as femboys are rejected by straight women.

Demasii · 2026-06-01T16:29:43+00:00

they act like they are inclusive and all about equality

How do they specifically act like this?

K4R0007_0 · 2026-06-01T15:57:26+00:00

Social stigma and stereotypes are always a batch.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2026-06-01T16:31:23+00:00

thats great. do you have anything to say about the red and blue pill and heterosexual dating dynamics?

ThrowRAGlobeVase · 2026-06-01T21:36:38+00:00

One thing that I can’t stand is certain types of “greater good” people, who care so much about people in terms of stats, figures, and their own values and viewpoints, but then treat the actual people around them like shit.

From what I’ve seen, there are people like this everywhere - from the Elon Musks of the word to a ton of liberal virtue signalers. I think it’s just a lack of empathy in some people, and it can exist wherever you go.

TomBerwick1984 · 2026-06-02T13:09:05+00:00

I'm going to disagree on the basis that I don't think progressives being performative is the only explanation.

(For background; I'm progressive, a Black man and am bisexual. And I'm a work in progress psychologically and philosophically...)

Although I think there is a large section of progressive community members that are performative, I think other explanations for the behavior you've experienced are 1) a lack of integration and internalization of progressive values and ideas 2) a lack of psychological immaturity 3) egotism 4) they're selective

1) A lack of internalization

I think it's important to note that just because someone is progressive it doesn't mean they've deconditioned themselves from patriarchy, nor does it mean they've embraced queer philosophy.

In the west at least, I think declaring yourself a progressive generally means that a person agrees intellectually with a set of ideas and values, rather than they've meaningfully internalized those ideas, and conduct themselves in accordance with those ideas.

IME just like psychological therapy (self-therapy or working with a professional) is necessary for changing emotional and personal habits, philosophical therapy is necessary for changing conditioning regarding gender, race, sexuality, etc.

For example; Violence prevention expert James Gilligan led a successful therapeutic team into a psychiatric prison that had a high rate of felony level violence. By the end of the intervention the violent crime and suicide rate, on record, had dropped to near zero. He says the program consisted of standard therapy to help them heal wounds, and philosophically helping them to separate the notion of masculinity from dominance. He said both parts were necessary - the psychological and philosophical.

In my own experience, philosophical therapy works like psychological talk therapy, in the sense that insight doesn't automatically create new habits, and neither does simply believing an idea is good. It requires repetitive deconstruction and reframing to create change. IMO and a lot of people do not do the work.

We live in a patriarchal and anti-queer society, and are constantly bombarded with those message in media and interactions, so it takes a lot of work and time to change those habits of response, behavior and perception.

Many progressive men may still have the patriarchal view of Masculinity = dominance deeply ingrained in them.

Many progressive women may still deeply desire gender conformity in romance, and so see non-gender conforming men as undesireable partners.

(I know I catch myself thinking misogynistic and homophobic thoughts, and I spend time doing philosophical therapy. Also, when I watch feminist or queer content creators, I'm constantly realizing that a reaction, behavior or perception I had was misogynistic or anti-queer. I'm a work in progress, both philosophically and psychologically.)

2) Psychological immaturity

Going back to James Gilligan (and Jonathan Fast); there is a explanation that one of the things that motivates a lot of human propensity for aggression is status-anxiety. That when people have a fragile sense of their own value, they can easily be triggered into intense and overriding feelings of shame/humiliation/self-disgust, and as a response they try to dominate or 'punish' whatever or whoever has triggered that response.

In the case of psychological immaturity; even in the case when there was no intention or reasonable expectation of shaming or humiliation. They lack the self control and self awareness to understand the issue is their own self worth and not what the other person has done.

So if someone rejects someone, the internal response from a psychologically immature person is to feel worthless/lower status, and so they seek to devalue or intimidate the person to repair the wound to their self worth.

I've concluded that the models of human psychology that represent the human mind as 'parts' or 'programs' are the best metaphors to explain human behavior. I think people can earnestly behave in accordance with one set of value when in one mood or context, and then behave in accordance with a completely other set of values when in another mood or context. I consider being psychologically congruent to be a sign of psychological maturity.

I think when a psychologically immature person is in their self worth is untouched they are expose progressive values and ideas, but when they have a wound to their self worth (e.g. being rejected or being triggered in general) their motivations switch and repairing their wound to self worth overrides everything, and so their will find any misogynistic, homophobic, racist, thing they can find to try to make them feel like they've dominated the other person, and triggered worse/similar feelings that they felt to 'reclaim' their sense of status.

Which may explain what you experienced with progressive men who say homophobic slurs when you reject them.

3) Egotism

I think some people are just highly self-absorbed and self-serving, and so will support progressives until it infringes on what they want.

Like the men who behave as if they have a sense of entitlement to women and men's bodies, and becoming harassing or abusive if rejected. They may endorse progressive values, until it's barrier to them getting what they want.

I've seen feminists who make videos who speak out against the Patriarchal and how men need to treat and view women in an egalitarian way, while simultaneous saying to their audience that if man doesn't behave in a traditionally patriarchal way (e.g. initiating romantic pursuit, paying for everything, etc) then they are unworthy of dating (regardless of other qualities). The feminists I saw with that contradictory message are very popular content creators.

I've seen a popular feminist online who talks about dismantling the Patriarchy and encouraging men to not see women through a patriarchal lens. Then in another video shaming men who don't initiate romantic interest, and enjoy spending time with their friend dancing in nightclubs instead of pursuing women, by calling them princesses. I saw her audience in the comments section trying to shame them by implying they were gay. (The video was quite literally a group of men dancing together in a nightclub laughing and having fun together. I'm not even exaggerating.) I was really confused that an audience of apparently feminist women were engaging in that kind of patriarchal shaming.

I personally now put it down to self-serving behavior. IMO many progressive women don't want sexism to go away, they just want malevolent sexism to go away, and encourage benevolent sexism. It may just be ignorance, and they incorrectly think patriarchy = malevolent sexism.

4) Selectiveness

It relates to what I just wrote; IMO many progressive women don't want sexism to go away, they just want malevolent sexism to go away, and encourage benevolent sexism.

I think if many progressive women really understood that dismantling the patriarchy would mean a society where;

There are far more men who come out as bisexual.

Woman and men equally initiating romantic interests and marriage proposals.

Romantic gestures being something equally men and women participate in.

Women and men sharing equally, housework, childcare and bills,

etc.

Then I honestly think a lot of progressive women would become conservatives overnight. I'm not saying that out of bitterness, it's just an honest conclusion based on the amount of feminist women who talk about wanting a partner who is traditionally masculine while they do not conform to traditional femininity, and vehemently reject the notion of traditional femininity.

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Ill-Investigator9546 · 2026-06-01T23:51:32+00:00

You found out that straight women are full of shit and are sexually obsessed with all the "patriarchy" that they claim to want to "bring down". They want to fuck it and hate it at the same time.

I've learned so much fucked up shit from women by having gay friends who spread the gossip

theminxisback · 2026-06-02T01:01:43+00:00

I mean.... I prefer feminine men and balanced men and women personally. I find them sexy as fuck. The more balanced between masculine and feminine they are, the sexier and more attractive they are to me. Then again, I have a thing for balance and authenticity.

criticalcry-tactic00 · 2026-06-02T05:41:59+00:00

True. Especially women. They only are progressive for their interests. When it comes to men they ignore it and just say "men up".

These_Rent_2503 · 2026-06-02T16:53:14+00:00

Many such cases and it's not limited to the example you mentioned. Performative progressive are also very good at shielding themselves from the consequences of their idealistic worldview and offloading them onto the working class.

TomBerwick1984 · 2026-06-02T13:05:31+00:00

I'm going to disagree on the basis that I don't think progressive being performative is the only explanation.

Just to begin; I'm progressive, a Black man and am bisexual.

Although I think there is a large section of progressive community that is performative, I think other explanations for the behavior you've experienced are 1) a lack of integration and internalization of progressive values and ideas 2) a lack of psychological immaturity 3) egotism 4) they're selective

A lack of internalization