Is the height preference mostly societal?

cuckedalt · 2022-05-26T09:10:25+00:00

Speaking of society, both questions are rude, and the people trying to justify the propriety of one over the other just keep digging the hole deeper

MarBitt · 2022-05-26T12:43:58+00:00

Both. Height meant good nutrition. So a better chance of good nutrition for a common offspring.

But especially in the US, it's also a social. In some countries in Europe, men are on average higher than in the US. And 180 cm is considered the perfectly fine height of a man. But in the US, women say 6 feet, simply because it's a round number that is well remembered. So almost all women want 6 feet in the US, but almost no woman wants 183 cm in Europe.

And in general, in recent years, at least on the US Internet, they are very superficial when it comes to dating, and everything is very appearance-oriented. This is also a social issue.

AquaChip · 2022-05-26T14:34:27+00:00

It’s biological just like men’s preference for women with child bearing hips and big breast is biological.

Notanothrshitthrow · 2022-05-26T09:10:10+00:00

I'm what many would call a "bluepiller", but I can see that height preferences are at least influenced by biological drive. If it was all culture, you would see diversity in height preferences across culture, however just about every culture values height in men. It would be a mighty coincidence if all cultures just so happened to come to the conclusion that tall men are desirable/valued.

Sure, there's societal influence at play, such as the arbitrary line in the sand of being 6 foot. However, I think only the most naïve of bluepillers would think that biology has no influence.

urukshai · 2022-05-27T02:47:26+00:00

There are arguments for short stature to be a biological advantage even if it is not as sexually appealing.

For example, short men need less food and less likely to have heart issues. They also are less likely to die at war because they can hide easier. Short women are also often more sexually appealing to men.

This all may add up so this is why we have short men and we will still have them.

MarBitt · 2022-05-26T12:56:00+00:00

The woman in that video is a hypocrite. If she is uncomfortable with weight, so no one is allowed to ask. If others are uncomfortable with height, she says it's okay to ask.

If there was no pressure on short men, there would be no term Napoleon complex.

And there is also a double standard, which commands to protect women from everything unpleasant, and at the same time commands men to endure discomfort stoically. So a man who asks women for weight is perceived as a bully and a man who complains about questions for weight is perceived as a weakling.

neetykeeno · 2022-05-26T09:12:50+00:00

"but blue pillars(?) don't believe this"

Blue pill is just anything that isn't red pill, there's plenty of gender essentialist blue "pillars" lol.

Smitten_Squire · 2022-05-26T17:21:45+00:00

In nature you would naturally want someone taller/bigger than you. The societal thing is the "he must be at least 6'+" that women fall into.

So its both. And also part of it is narcissism from women exclusively wanting a 6'8 guy just to show off and one up all her friends boyfriends

Puzzleheaded_Bet7294 · 2022-05-26T15:47:48+00:00

What ticks me off is that an inch, is an arbitrary, man-made measurement. It means nothing. It’s not natural. Someone out there decided that a certain height is equal to “six feet” and women just ran with it. Something about how it’s even and sounds good, and that there are so few men that meet that requirement appealed to them. Because women love exclusive stuff, things they can “show off”. After all, they make up the majority of current consumers, and even more so for luxury goods.

Nearly every women I know has a designer handbag but many men walk around in plain tees and call it a day.

RationalFemale · 2022-05-26T19:25:59+00:00

It’s fascinating to me that people assume tall men had some evolutionary advantage. It’s not so cut and dry. Shorter men had an advantage by not being seen as easily as someone taller. Taller men and women had higher rates of mortality. Cold climates had an impact on height (colder the climate shorter the man).

SKY_ACTIV3 · 2022-05-26T21:12:16+00:00

Women wanting a man taller than them is a pretty well accepted biological imperative. Women turning down a 5’11” guy because he isn’t 6’ is cultural.

Are women in European countries biologically different from American women if their standards are 180cm (about 5’10.8)? Or whatever it is in Europe these days lol

We like the sound of certain numbers, and the connotations associated with them. Is a 5’9 guy really that much taller than a 5’7 guy to a girl that’s 5’0? No, but 5’9 sounds a lot better. That’s the cultural aspect.

Also, I disagree that assigning causation to culture instead of biology is inherently bluepilled. I see people of all kinds of outlooks attributing things to either culture or biology.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-05-26T09:34:53+00:00

There's a strong cultural element that comes from biology. Men are usually taller than women, so men being tall is seen as manly and good.

Siukslinis_acc · 2022-05-26T09:14:38+00:00

It's partially societal. Taller people have proportions that are closer to fashion sketch and heroic Greek proportions and almost everyone agrees that humans look better with those proportions.

It's not biological because neither fashion sketch nor heroic Greek proportions exist in nature. Tall people are just an approximation of what people intellectually decided looks good.

Someone with elf-like ears, silver hair and purple eyes (and/or a weird skin color) would be considered to be one of the most attractive people to have ever lived. And yet those preferences can't be biological because humans don't naturally have those traits. It's just something that we figured out by sketching people and then slapping weird fantastical traits onto them until we accidentally came up with something that looked good.

Far_Welcome101 · 2022-05-26T10:38:33+00:00

Mostly an American thing I guess the whole obsession with being 6 feet tall

Guitar-Master9891 · 2022-05-26T14:41:18+00:00

6.3' dude here, no, it isn't.

You can feel it when talking to women, it's something that comes within themselves, you realize these by the many reassons they give you on why they preffer tall men (and I don't mean "taller than short men", I mean TALL men, like 6 foot and above) most of which have nothing to do with social status or culture.

I talk to women a lot about this topic actually because, well, height is the first thing they notice about me and the first thing they want to discuss about haha. Across my life I've talked to lots of girls (girlfriends, friends, female relatives, random girls, etc) about this prefference and while you ocasionally run into a woman that wants a tall man because of peer presure/status or because "that's how suppose to be", lots of women have given me lots of different reassons.

Protection... A recurring theme. It's kinda logical if you think about it but because of their fragile bodies and small frame women seem to be always in this perpetual state of helplesness (something that is painted all over in feminist narrative, women freak out in front of minimal treats). A big man to their side probably eases this insecurity and Grant them a (false IMO) sense of security (false again, a guy with a gun is more effective).

Another top reasson is that they claim to feel sexier, like in an aesthetical sense. They can't come up with a solid answer, but it's like when they date a man that is bigger than them they feel more femenine and delicate. Also, high heels. My ex fiancee dated a guy her height and she always told me that she couldn't use high heels and she kinda resented the relationship for it, as she loved to wear high heels with me all the time. I think I get it somehow. High heels are probably the most femenine piece of cloth among with skirts, and there are no shortage of women claiming wearing high heels make them feel, again, femenine, delicate, stylish, hotter, sexier. TBH, I agree. High heels and skirts are like an amplifier of female sexuality and a simbol of status among women.

I know, may sound stupid from a man's POW because we don't have an homologue to compare to, but feels real for women. Yes, women date tall men (among other reassons) to be able to wear high heels, and I think this is the top 1 reasson actually (no kidding, ALL women I've dated commented something about high heels in refference to my height at some point).

Also, lust, particularly tied to sex, which I think is related to the aforementioned point. Not ALL women, but most women I've been with translate the power dynamic of other areas of the relationship to the bedroom. They want to be taken, carried away, lifted, sweep of their feet. They want to feel overpowered by their man to the point resisting is futile. Something that stuck with me is what an ex said. She said once that she felt like if "smaller men couldn't do it without faking it" and that she couldn't feel it like it was real unless it hurt her. Acording to her, I was so big and she was so small, that she intrinsically knew I could take her whenever I wanted, and one soft, gentle hand over her shoulders or her back was enough for her to feel helpless. As I understand, she didn't enjoyed the physical pain, but she wanted to feel like I was taking her, dominating her.

These are just four reassons, but I've found many others, like one girl who got off on watching me from afar in crowded places (she said she loved the fact that she couldn't lose me in places full of people?) or a friend of mine who thought all tall men had big schlongs. Another girl enjoyed my hugs, specially while cuddling in bed, and would find the most weird possitions to fall asleep using my body as a cover. Big hands... Another one. Tall kids... Something I've found ocasionally...

I don't think these women are following some societal-cultural pressure, I just think this prefference comes from their inner selves, like something that is truly natural, the same way men seem to prefer fair skinned, blue eyes blondes.

And yeah, the male prefference for blondes is not really cultural. Read about the white slavery by turks and ottomans, those sheiks were willing to go to war against entire kingdoms for just a few blond blue eyed women.

The word "slave" actually comes from turkish "slava", which means "slav", the name people from the old kingdom of Slavia were known for. Slavs were mostly blond people with blue eyes, but turks enslaved so many of them that at some point a nationality became sinonim of an opressed social chaste.

African men, indian men, asian men, even american native men, have a "thing" for blond girls it seems, and this was happening WAY before the culture of the globalized world became an homogeneous, transnational abstract concept. Black men in the US were putting their lives at stake to lay with white women during the Jim Crow era, and the stories of native americans kidnaping blond women and marrying them are source material for lots of romantic plots.

Some mating choices can't come from cultural backgrounds. We just have it inside of us, it comes off as natural.

Pizdamati6969 · 2022-05-26T09:47:02+00:00

If so since it's hurting people just like fatphobia, shouldn't we be trying to change it?

Stop comparing being a fat disgusting fuck to an immutable trait.

sarkington · 2022-05-26T12:24:12+00:00

I think it’s the conscious justification of partially unconscious stereotyping

Kaleidoscopiquant · 2022-05-26T13:26:39+00:00

Height in men and weight/figure in women are as biological as it gets. Sexual dimorphism is what it all comes down to.

IWillKeepYourSecret · 2022-05-28T08:33:31+00:00

Lady claims it's a ok to ask about height but not weight cause weight is societal

Lmao she's not making a lot of sense to me here. Regardless, she's also wrong and I'm pretty sure she knows she's making excuses. The reason why it's "okay" to ask for height is because it's something you can't really control. Nobody decides how tall they're going to be; you can't blame or (validly) judge someone for their height.
Weight, however, is "not okay" to ask because the number is (at least to a certain extend) tied to their own life choices. If someone's overweight, they would usually be uncomfortable with sharing that number. If it's a number they're not proud of, especially if it's far too high, then they get offended when asked for it. It's like asking for the scale of their lack of self-control.

Technically, while weight preferences have been swinging back and forth like a pendulum, our current ideal is (IMO) very much based on the biological principle. Being overweight was attractive when commoners were starving; being underweight and "boyish" was a recurring thing in the last decade (20's, 60's, 90's). So, while societal, our current ideals (healthy weight with curves) are also logical in the biological sense.

Anyways, rambling over.

My question though for those people is, are women's height preferences also mostly societal?

What I learnt about it in my time studying psychology is that women have genes that maintain this preference. There might have hypothetically once been a time where 50% of women preferred tall men while the other 50% preferred shorter men. The former half passes their preference genes onto their daughters, and the latter did the same. The children born from the short fathers had a much higher mortality rate. Over the many generations that followed, the people with the "tall preference-gene" continued to reproduce while the people with the "short preference-gene" died out more and more.

It's evolution. We're basically just nature's science project.

MelodiousTones · 2022-05-26T11:40:44+00:00

When men are getting surgery and going into debt for it, when the numbers are as high as for the plastic surgeries women get, when there’s an equivalent to eating disorders that can kill you for height, then we can talk about “height oppression”. LOL

Suck-Less · 2022-05-26T09:49:15+00:00

I’ve dated in seven different cultures and hight is a female preference in all of them. However, outside of the US, the hight difference is usually much smaller.

I’m guessing the reason is a combination of two issues.

First, In the US, the taller the man the more social clout a woman has with other women. It’s really no different than women competing with their hand bag collection.

Second, this “I don’t need no man” feminism has a lot of women feeling very insecure, so those women hide their insecurities by having an oversized “security blanket.”

AelfredRex · 2022-05-26T11:12:36+00:00

If the average height of men in the USA is 5'9", then the average woman in the USA is gonna be completely fine with men that tall. That is what average means.

All this terror over height is MEN who are insecure about their own height projecting their fears onto women to make them the scapegoat for their own insecurity.

Electrical_Coat_8714 · 2022-05-26T13:53:02+00:00

Men and women are attracted to the dimorphic aspects of each other, which is why women like height, broad shoulders and good musculature.

You can't really change this and media will sell it forever

Ppdstillmental · 2022-05-26T11:53:34+00:00

But Blue Pillars don't believe this

I think you can not be a red piller and still recognize that straight women like straight men who read as men, lol. Our visual cues? No tits, hairier, more muscular, taller.

Height is a dimorphic trait. Men are taller than women. Weight is a dimorphic trait. Women are fatter than men. Our standards for what a desirable weight is have changed over time, often with what is seen as healthy. People who weigh so much that they read as unhealthy will never be seen as desirable

Aviadcool111 · 2022-05-26T13:38:16+00:00

I believe it was Denmark where the average height of men increased rapidly due to women not having sex with shorter guys, don't know if they did so for societal reasons but I lean towards height being attractive being more biological.

TheMedsPeds · 2022-05-27T23:02:28+00:00

No clue, but I’d take a dude that is 5’5 over a dude that is 6’5 any day. Never understood the obsession with tall men. I’m 5’2 so the closer to my height the better.

AutoModerator · 2022-05-26T08:58:48+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

funlightmandarin · 2022-05-26T09:29:27+00:00

It's both societal and biological.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-05-26T11:54:25+00:00

no I think it's pretty biological. talk men are preferred in all cultures I believe.

weight is largely societal, but why would that mean we can't have preferences? most of our preferences are culturally influenced.

just to be clear though, red pillers don't own the monopoly of believing in evolutionary biology.

mandoa_sky · 2022-05-26T12:36:48+00:00

my little brother IS 6'1-6'2 though...

i'm personally just more worried about what would happen if the relationship gets serious enough to "meet the family"

WhiteMarriedtoBlack · 2022-05-26T13:00:19+00:00

Everyone has their preferences. I know a lot of women who don’t care about height, a few that want all we men, and a fewer who like shorter men. A few would never date a short man after they had a few nightmare boyfriends that were very short or shorter than them.

Also there’s a lot of guys who wouldn’t date a taller women. Like average to tall men tend to prefer shorter women and taller women are a turn off.

miyawkt · 2022-05-26T14:01:44+00:00

i is mostly societal yes

freerossulbrich · 2022-05-26T14:53:57+00:00

I think most preference is biological. Including preferences for height, weight, money, and beauty. And it shouldn't matter.

Most preferences are genetical. We all want the best genes for our children. While what's the best genes are arguable, the best genes don't change no matter what you do.

In other words, women and men choose women and men based on things we can hardly change. One such things are height, IQ and weight.

And that makes many people frustrated. So they said it's cultural that can be changed and should be changed. Well, in a sense they're correct.

Just because something is biological doesn't mean it can't be changed. Whether it should be changed or not is a different issue. If men prefer the pretty would beautiful women bother changing it? If women prefer the rich, would rich men bother changing it?

Ok_Razzmatazz_1751 · 2022-05-26T16:30:17+00:00

Height preferences I believe are part of the evoluntary biological imperative. If you are raised with tall people , it's engrained into your subconscious that they are the superior mate vs a shorter individual. Think it's part of wanting the best genes you're able to pass to your off spring.

Even individuals that are of shorter stature they still have individuals within that society that are taller than the shortest, which are preferred more so than the other.

squarehead93 · 2022-05-26T17:05:08+00:00

Height preference in women regarding men is almost certainly biological. Needing a man to be 6'+ tall however is cultural and arbitrary, and seems to be an especially American thing

flamingoinghome · 2022-05-26T18:44:11+00:00

Well, yes.

Perhaps I'm biased because I don't have a height preference, but tbh, I think it's all overblown/largely an OLD thing anyway.

Gentlemen, no woman will take out a tape and measure you on a date.

ruboyuri · 2022-05-26T19:16:06+00:00

I believe the “protector” role/function that drives the height fetishization is mostly learned, and now translates into status

2022-05-26T20:02:30+00:00

I am solidly Blue Pill and I do not care one lick about height. To me it's just like a non-issue if he is hot. Prince was 5'2" and everyone drooled.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-05-26T20:29:20+00:00

It is inherent, the same way men like big boobs, big hips/small waist and a nice ass. Society seems to make it a bit more of a point of emphasis. Taller -> bigger -> better at protecting a woman's offspring.

HunterOk3550 · 2022-05-26T22:54:17+00:00

I'm insane tall 6'8 and definitely always wanted my guy to be shorter, and that's nothing to do with society now it's pure sensible thought, I love the look of a shorter man beside me, taller guys ses awkward as he'll.

TooHornyToFap · 2022-05-27T04:11:09+00:00

The preference is biological but the sheer extent of that preference nowadays seems pretty societal

AnnoKano · 2022-05-27T12:03:56+00:00

You should probably direct your question to anthropologists, since they would be better placed to answer it. I have no idea whether or not there are societies that prefer short men.

I suspect most have a preference to slightly above whatever is average for that culture. But as far as I am aware it's a fact that size preferences are influenced by culture... and height preferences being biological wouldn't change that.

In general though, biological determinism is a pretty dumb theory. Clearly people have their own preferences.

JoeRMD77 · 2022-05-29T03:08:16+00:00

Natural selection has nothing to do with humans and mating. It's the survival of the luckiest. Any man or woman can find another to reproduce with. The only thing being selected is each other by each other. No one gets shut out from the game.

daisydaisydaisy12 · 2022-05-26T19:14:23+00:00

The girl was being nice and the guy was being a prick. You see that right? He had a shot till he opened his mouth and crap came out.

Bandit174 · 2022-05-26T13:00:35+00:00

I think society can emphasize or detract from things but it can only go so far. On some level what society values is what the members of that society innately value.

As far as I am aware there is not a single culture now or in the past where tall men were not preferred over average/short men. If it was cultural I would expect to see at least some variation, but there is none. American women, Chinese women, Sweedish women, African women, they all prefer tall men. If you ever watch street interviews on YouTube where the guy asks women in different countries what they find attractive, height/tallness is almost always one of if not the first thing they mention. Rich women, poor women, you guessed it, they prefer tall men. Tall women, average height women, short women...they too prefer tall men.

There is virtually no variation in women's opinion's one height. The preference for tall man spans all ethnicities, all social classes, all ages, all body types.

Urbanwitch666 · 2022-05-28T10:56:19+00:00

That lady is full of shit.

Height preferences are just as cultural. We all used to be shorter.

Shes just justifying her own shallowness.

I think sexual preferences are a mixture of biological and cultural. I think it's very hard to fully understand what part comes from where even. Also, we're all very individual in our preferences.

I don't think it makes sense to say body hair preference is biological as women naturally grow hair when they are no longer children. If anything men should find a bush hot as its a sign of fertility. I definitely think that is from porn. Maybe there is a natural preference for women with less hair then men, but unless men biologically prefer children then instinctively a bush should be more attractive.

daddysgotanew · 2022-05-28T14:24:18+00:00

Women don’t actually care about height. I mean they do but it’s at position #97 on the list of things they care about.

I’m 6’1” and have never once been selected or fetishized because of my height

Is the height preference mostly societal?

Comments

Don't speak for other women it's gross.

Title	Is the height preference mostly societal?
Author	Potential_Respond224
Upvotes	27
Comments	290
Date	May 26, 2022 8:58 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/uy3a4u/is_the_height_preference_mostly_societal/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/is-the-height-preference-mostly-societal.1118529 https://theredarchive.com/post/1118529