LOOKS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD

PhaseExtra1132 · 2025-05-03T19:22:51+00:00

Went to a meetup. It was 100% dudes and 100% mostly folks in their 40s. That was very interesting. Gonna just write that app off my list because the demographic is just not that good.

Dating apps have been the usual mess. Deleting that after just 2 weeks of realizing why I got off of them in the first place.

So now I understand how bad the dating market is. It terminally broken lol.

YuYuHakusho23 · 2025-05-03T18:29:14+00:00

Looks are everything in dating. People are shallow and judge you immediately after meeting you by your appearance.

WhichThatHas · 2025-05-03T22:55:15+00:00

I think like 70% of men and like 95% of women can at least be considered somewhat attractive if they dress well and are in good shape.

K4matayon · 2025-05-08T10:12:18+00:00

I see a lot of people in this thread saying personality is a part of looks I guess this is the next narrative we spin in order to circle back into "see personality matters!!!" honestly pathetic lol

SprayAffectionate321 · 2025-05-04T16:55:47+00:00

Looks aren't the only thing that matters, but it's important to be your partner's type even if you're not necessarily attractive by mainstream standards. I've never had a man whose looks I didn't like to grow on me because of status/money or some other thing. I've had men telling me that I'm just in denial.

Somerandomdudereborn · 2025-05-03T17:07:30+00:00

I found incredible that on 2025 with dating apps and social media people (especially some women) keep denying the importance of looks.

There are neither bad or good personalities, only people who're unattractive therefore perceived as having a bad personality (failo effect) and viceversa.

man-frustrated · 2025-05-03T17:01:28+00:00

Women care about looks more than men.

Alwaysnthered · 2025-05-06T22:28:12+00:00

What percent of men are able to achieve the minimum looks level of “oh, he’s kinda cute” if they are put on a 2-3 year holistic looksmaxxxing program, and they are of at least Average height?

Not “wow what a hottie” but more like “noticeable” if he walks by - and not by most women but just a few women at least (maybe if he is out in public 2-3 women will notice him throughout the day)

IMO I still think it’s fairly low, around maybe 20%.

Alwaysnthered · 2025-05-04T14:45:22+00:00

I havn't seen this mentioned here before, but lack of traditionally "good looking features" can be made up for by dramatically increasing physical ruggedness/masulinity.

harderdend hands, veins, arm hair/chest hair, wrinkled features on face, greyish hair, tattoos, five a clock shadow etc. and a clear "IDGAF" demeanor and stare.

I think of the stereotypical "drunk poet/writer" - sitting in his chair with a highball full of whiskey smoking a cigerrate just got divorced with tattered hair, five oclock shadow, eye bags, and wearing a random suit jacket. Other ones are Doctor house from house - he's really not that good looking but has this deep masculine voice/stubble. another obvious one is jeremey allen white in the bear - although he has "pretty eyes" which does at to his appeal.

and of course, this probably doesnt apply if you are very short (Sorry lol)

Over-Line8015 · 2025-05-10T02:42:48+00:00

Looks for men are the absolute most important thing if you want to have a successful dating life. All else pales in comparison.

I want to preface this by saying yes, you can still date if you are average looking or below average looking as a man.

Most men are forced to put in extreme amounts of effort to get very little in return from women. Why? Because women are not attracted to them. Now I'm aware there are likely going to be people in the comments like "oh wow, like we didn't know" and "obviously looks matter" but these individuals underestimate how important they are for a man specifically.

Looks don't just give you short term opportunities, they also give you an abundance of options when it comes to long term relationships as well.

Women are rejecting 99 percent of men based off of their looks. For example, say a guy is normal looking and has a normal personality etc and makes average money. Women will reject this guy and say the reason is because he doesn't make enough money, or say something was wrong with his personality when in reality she just didn't find the guy attractive enough and didn't want to seem shallow. They will look for reasons to DISQUALIFY you because you're not attractive enough, whereas if a guy is objectively attractive, despite any downfall he may have, she will use his looks to automatically qualify him.

Having looks makes a man receive genuine desire. The main reason there are so many dead bedrooms and why women don't initiate sex with their boyfriends or husbands are because they aren't physically attracted to them. Now you may be saying "well she must be attracted to him if shes dating him! Women like average men!"

Wrong. The thing most men don't realize is that women typically only settle down with men that they find okay looking and see as a safe option. These men do not truly arouse the woman. These men are emotionally available and get boyfriend sex. Boyfriend sex being very vanilla sex or starfish sex.

On the other hand attractive men get to do whatever they want, they get the utmost desire from the women that they are with. The woman will initiate because the man is just that irresistible. Money means very little to the women they are with because the desire for that man is what keeps the relationship alive.

Being an attractive man makes the dynamic perfect. Women can be average looking and still date up, whereas if a man if average looking he can only date below himself which typically puts the man in a position of having little to NO options. Him having no options will be a double negative, making him even less attractive. If a man is attractive he has more options and therefore will not only be more attractive (physically) but he will also have an added boost of being less thirsty and having an abundance. He wont have to pretend to have an abundance mindset. He will have true abundance.

Broke attractive men have better dating and sex lives than average or below average wealthy men. Having money wont get you genuine desire.

More attractive men also have better personalities because they get positive reinforcement their entire lives.

Women will accept cheating etc if you are attractive. Not recommending it, but they will.

Nowadays you can see women exposing this truth ( which they love to downplay or deny) on a daily basis.

But the point of this post is you should improve your looks by (mostly) any means possible if you want to have a good dating life or sex life as a man.

Which is extremely difficult to do.

Also

Yes women love men (attractive men) Yes, if you were taller or more attractive you would have a significantly better dating life. Yes other stuff matters but having looks is the most important. Yes, if you are severely deficient somewhere else to an extreme degree it can negate looks.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2025-05-07T05:17:17+00:00

What I'm attracted to has never, in the entirety of my life, been remotely contingent upon how hot I think I am. My first crush was in the first grade. It wasn't because I thought I was cute, it was because I thought he was cute

Why are there so many men who are utterly convinced what we are attracted to is a direct reflection of how we look, or how we perceive ourselves to look??

Like whose attraction works like that fr

Reasonable_Style8214 · 2025-05-03T16:46:03+00:00

Hot take - women undergoing labiaplasty because of porn pushing innies as a beauty standard is no big deal. Most men go through a similar procedure when they are born.

PracticalControl2179 · 2025-05-03T20:15:12+00:00

<image>

This is what men call a 6/10 woman

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TheFunAsylumStudio · 2025-05-07T07:27:03+00:00

First time I had a girl tell me I was hot was when I was 12. When I bring up to guys that girls go around calling dudes hot they just blank out. It's strange.

Spread-Em-Plz · 2025-05-08T11:46:50+00:00

Q4A: Do you guys think the skinny twink-ish but relatively less masculine pretty boy look is overrated in appeal? Or are people accurate about how attractive it is? Or maybe is it even MORE overpowered than people think?

Another bonus question: do you think there’s any male look style/archetype that’s widely overestimated in appeal? (As in people in these spaces assume it works better than it does in real life)

Go based on your own observations

Aromatic-Following98 · 2025-05-08T17:19:07+00:00

I have made a calculator app for attractiveness with chat GPTs help. It's a python script that I don't know what to do with. It's probably just best hosted on a webpage but I made it for something called toga so whatever.

It's largely subjective to what I think, I admit, though does that mean it's right?

The app is for men under 45. I have an equation for women too.

My factors are

Body Fat Percentage (17.5%) - this one is the easiest and most obvious/hard to argue with. A man that has less body fat is more attractive.

Lean Body Mass (40%) - I don't use height. I roll up muscle, frame, and height all into Lean Body Mass. The study I found says LBM is 106 pounds for 60 inches and then 6 pounds for every additional inch. Other studies show average lean body mass for men is 135 LBM. So I settled in on 5'9'' = 135 LBM for the average man when estimating and then guess 5 pounds of LBM per inch. 5 instead of 6 because 6 just doesn't mesh well with reality in my opinion. The average man is 5'9'' but if 106+inch*6 is right then that's 151 LBM for the average 5'9'' man? That's just too high, a 5'9'' guy with true 10-12% body fat would be about 170 lbs and look like this - which just no, just no, even mentally pushing him up to 25% body fat and if he's exaggerating height an inch. So my understanding is that an average built man is 135 + or - 5 pounds of LBM for every inch. And you can subtract 5 off for smaller frame and add 5 for larger frame and do your best to estimate muscle mass over for people that lift.

Face (17.5%) - True facial attractiveness is going to be based on body fat % and facial structure (and maybe even LBM because it seems to me good trap development somehow makes male faces look more masculine). This metric is just for underlying facial structure. So you're strong wide jawlines, hunter eyes, good proportions, symmetry.

Ethnicity (5%, or 5 points) - Based off the common complaints of different ethnicities I didn't want to discount those so included this. I do think being white is generally an advantage, though there is definitely some subjectivity in women's view. I only give 1 point for being black because I think women view being black as the most negative for most women, but if you're a Kardashian maybe that's not true. Ethnicity is really bundled up into the final metric, but I think it makes sense to separate out in most cases. White native English Speakers get the full 5 points. Indian is 2, Whitish Latinos are half blacks 3, Asians are non-native English speaking whites are a 4. Now you might want to fight me on this. For instance you might say Asians are less, but I would say you're conflating variables and not thinking about it in a fair comparison. You're imagining an Asian with lower lean body mass, not an asian with equal lean body mass to a white. Is an Asian with just as much lean body mass, same body fat, and just as attractive a face going to be more attractive or less attractive than the similar white or black guy? My answer is less than the white, more than the black and that's how I base the points.

Status (17.5%) - Status is a difficult field particularly when you're younger and it's dependent on the female observer. However I think status tends to converge on income as women get older. Being a musician may be impressive to a 17 year old girl but being a musician to a 30 year old woman as a 35 year old man who plays restaurants and bars is kind of a red flag. So by 25 and definitely by 28 I think that all converges on career and SES which can be represented by income. I assign the points weighted between 45th and 100th income percentile. Below 45th is a 0.

Development - I simply started calculating the scores for every man under 45 I was in contact with in as representative a sample as I could make it (e.g. trying not to focus on just those I interact with the most or the more attractive or less attractive ones). I adjusted the weights above until the outcome seemed to be reflecting reality to me. Once you record enough scores you can get an average and distribution (~44-45 and ~10-11) and from there calculate the percentile.

Weaknesses

Most men can't estimate their lean body mass or body fat percentage. My calculator includes the US Navy Body fat measurement protocol and equation, but most men are a solid 5-10% underestimating their body fat if they don't calculate. Most men will lie about their weight and underestimate, or if they're smaller guys overestimate.
The amount of subjectivity and assumptions I make
Status element is inherently subjective, but I think that's also a strength because that's how women operate. 'Game' is essentially a set of tricks to indicate to women you have maximum status. Women also don't inherently know how much money a guy has, or believe or understand it an infer it through status symbols. i.e. income percentile really only measures status for women you actually know or can signal to. I also think that women look for men that feed into their own narcissistic (using term somewhat clinically here) self-image which can go beyond wealth. So if a woman fancies herself a creative the musician might actually have higher status at 30.
Scores should probably turn negative on the low end. I weight body fat percentage from 8-35% with 0 for anything above 35, but really it should probably turn negative.
At the extremes there are some difficulties. After a certain point LBM probably has diminishing returns and the equation should really be logarithmic instead of linear or something. Additionally extreme high status would break this, like Timothy Chalamet. If I had to score him I'd go 8/10 face, 100% Status, 5 points white, Body fat 10%, LBM he's 5'10'' and thin framed so from a base of 135 lbs (+5 for the inch but -5 for frame) I think I have to subtract another 5 for lack of development and stick him at 130 LBM (even then I think that's high but we'll go with it). Also I think his face photographs well and there's plenty of well lit doctored photos to choose from but ultimately his eye area is a little week and his lower third is short to not going 10/10 for face. He still scores a 59.6 which puts him at a 1/8 to 1/10 male, but would clearly do better than that even if competing with a 6'3'' guy at 180 LBM 10% body fat.
Distribution I suspect real attractiveness probably follows a non-normal distribution and probably leans forward a little bit.

Confidence: I am actually super confident in all of this for men who fall in the 10th - 90th percentiles. If I calculate a man's score his score reflect my expectation.

Spread-Em-Plz · 2025-05-04T01:48:24+00:00

Why is it when I see people discussing dating. As in ways certain things should be done, even strategies, etc. why do self-proclaimed (or hell sometimes they just actually are) ugly dudes always feel the need to show up and say “But that won’t work if you’re ugly bro!” “But follow rules 1 and 2” etc. at least in spaces of this kind where this stuff is discussed

Like dude, maybe no one was talking to you about about game plans if it’s not even a game you can play in

Actually? I could roast the -cels here but I just realized this sub and adjacent places are full of those who talk without knowing, trying desperately to get a seat in a conversation that just isn’t even at their table

Like I try to be good at knowing my lane and knowing where I fall short on practical knowledge. Seems lots of people don’t even think bout it for a second.

Certain_Process_7657 · 2025-05-05T20:48:06+00:00

Looks are the primary factor in determining if a woman will be "chosen". A solid 6 is hot enough for any man to sleep with but not good enough for a high value man to commit to for LTR.

What prompts this theory is this post that has been blowing up on the Bumble sub. 31F no kids. Never married. This woman isn't having any trouble at all getting matches or dates, but struggling with finding men that want anything serious. She has been put firmly in the "sleeper" category by all the men she has dated, but likely doesn't fully realize it.

The harsh truth is that she's probably a solid 6 (as she stated herself) for the type of man she's probably are looking for (I presume tall, white, gainfully employed). Her issue is that she looks like pretty much every run of the mill single woman in her city. The vast majority of single women active on dating apps and at bars are between 30-35 and also not don't have kids. These other women (her competition) are probably also all looking for the same man and so these few men that fit her criteria have their pick of the litter.

These men aren't likely to pick her to settle down for the long run if they have 3-4 to choose from. She's hot enough for pretty much any guy to have a short term fling with, but not commit to seriously. He's more likely to pick the solid 7 or 8 if he gets the opportunity. They view her as "good for now" but she doesn't have the "keeper" looks.

berichorbeburied · 2025-05-04T00:07:00+00:00

<image>

I would smash. I don’t need a woman to be super pretty or etc. I’m super sexually attracted to the simple things in life. Ngl.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2025-05-04T08:05:19+00:00

How do you do, fellow uggos?

<image>

ThatBitchA · 2025-05-07T21:44:04+00:00

This is a reminder....

Women view looks as a whole package. Face, body, attitude, personality, and vibes.

You can learn a lot about someone just seeing them standing there.

ThatBitchA · 2025-05-03T16:50:38+00:00

It's not your looks that is the problem.

It's your attitude, vibes, and/or personality.

Obsessing over height, jaw lines, or whatever nonsense is exactly what men want you to do.

If you feel insecure, you're not going to be succeeding romantically.

Men push male beauty standards to limit the herd. Men push male beauty standards so they have less competition.

Factor	Weight	Scientific Basis
Facial Structure & Aesthetics	35%	Strongest predictor in revealed preference (Tinder, speed dating, facial symmetry).
Height	15%	Independent, robust female preference even when controlling for SES/muscle.
Muscularity / Frame (S:W Ratio)	12%	Moderately strong; most attractive when lean and balanced (1.6+ S:W ratio).
Body Fat Percentage	8%	Lower BF (~10–15%) correlates with higher attraction; extreme low/high is penalized.
Perceived Status (Charisma/Game)	15%	Women infer status through behavior, confidence, and social proof.
Actual SES (Income, Education)	7%	Relevant in long-term dynamics, less visible upfront unless signaled.
Social Fluency / Vibe / Aura	8%	Nonverbal dominance, grooming, presence — explains outliers who "punch above."
Total	100%

Range	Modeling Validity	Explanation
0–25%	❌ Poor	Inputs unreliable, subjects often invisible, not playing in the market.
25–40%	⚠️ Limited	Marginal presence in market, may be excluded by default filters.
40–85%	✅ Strong	This is where your model best tracks reality and can predict outcomes fairly well.
85–95%	⚠️ Weakening	Top-tier compounding begins, individual variance rises.
95–100%	❌ Breaks	Outliers dominate, charisma/fame/etc. override modeled inputs.

Title	LOOKS WEEKLY DISCUSSION THREAD
Author	AutoModerator
Upvotes	2
Comments	471
Date	May 3, 2025 4:00 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1kdwb5a/looks_weekly_discussion_thread/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/looks-weekly-discussion-thread.1551336 https://theredarchive.com/post/1551336

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