~ archived since 2018 ~

Men which want a relationship should instead look for sex

October 27, 2022
61 upvotes

EDIT: You guys have managed to changed my mind. From now on I think that it is best for me to seek good relationships by looking for sex. For reasons unknown this seems to work best for me.

However we are all similar but different individuals and for other men this might not be the best strategy though

Mods feel free to lock this one.

Because thats the best way to start a GOOD relationship.

Obviously relationships which organicaly grow are an exception, but you can't plan those... they just happen or they don't.

Looking at my past all my relationships in which I felt validated and my partner was happy started with us being horny, and having sex which grew into a relationship.

My dating problems arrise when I'm single and I start looking for a relationship.

To start it off, with modern women working and being financialy independent our commitment is not nearly as worthy as it was 100 years. Also woman commitment has became valuable. At the same time while men have a harder time finding sex, women have a harder time finfing a good sex partner (orgasm gap) so a guy which is good at sex does have value.

When a guy is looking for a relationship for a woman it seems like he is offering his already not that worthy commitment cheaply. Furthermore women will often make a guy wait to make themselves feel more valuable.

This creates a situation in which woman seems more valuable then man does. Woman will feel like settling, guy might feel reject the woman which doesn't find him valuable. Or he might feel lucky for "catching" a woman more valuable then him... at first. Later on, vanila sex, dead beedroom, the reveal of sexual past and guy can end up just as unhappy, if not more.

However if relationship starts with sex. Woman already feels that man is valuable sex wise, man feels validated.

And both of them still have commitment to share, that can create a situation in which both partners feel validated and feel like their partner is valuable.

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[–]Reasonable-Push-9422 39 points40 points  (14 children) | Copy Link

Men shouldn’t waste time on a rigged game unless they have the aptitude for it. Which you’ll know if you do depending on if you have gotten interest from women before, if you have then good for you, if you haven’t then consider giving up and letting go.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 17 points18 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Exactly. I had gotten interest from women before, obviously not all women find me attractive, because they do have different taste for men.

So rather then just spreading my "investment" around, which does feel like a rigged game. I save my investment for women which find me attractive enough to sleep with me.

[–]Reasonable-Push-9422 4 points5 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

You’re gonna have to wait a long time then because even if you are attractive enough to get interest that isn’t enough for women to risk rejection. So pray that you are excessively attractive enough for women to make a move or prepare to wait a long long long time? There isn’t a clear cut answer to this.

[–]FeeForTheKnee 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Exactly

[–]HMosadek 3 points4 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Giving up on women because they don’t just naturally throw themselves at you is lame

[–]Pissrael_2 13 points14 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

There is nothing lamer than a sexually desperate man looking for sex and relationships after failing at them. Giving up is a genuine, valid and mentally healthy way to handle such case.

[–]Reasonable-Push-9422 19 points20 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Women throwing themselves at you is not what I meant by interest and you know that. All I’m saying is that you shouldn’t take blind leaps of faith when they don’t even offer a chance of success while having consequences for your own self-esteem and confidence unless you overcome it or power through.

[–]Gullible_Diamond_850 0 points1 point  (7 children) | Copy Link

Giving up on any pursuit that interests you is lame.

[–]Reasonable-Push-9422 9 points10 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

That’s why you stop yourself from forming romantic attraction. Without that you won’t even feel the need to pursue as there is nothing to pursue.

[–]Gullible_Diamond_850 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

Oh trust me, if I can get rid of the desire for a woman’s companionship then I will get rid of it immediately, it would free up so much mental space for other pursuits. But unfortunately I don’t feel like it’s possible, one smile and I am back to starting point.

[–]Reasonable-Push-9422 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Yeah that’s a lot harder to get rid of. Best you can do is kill any romantic attraction you feel before it grows too much and rationalizing that even if you somehow magically got into a relationship you’ll have to tiptoe around knowing that you are completely replacable. That she could cheat on you at any time, lying and only using you for something you have, etc. If you keep repeating these scenarios in your head then hopefully you’ll manage to crush the yearning you feel.

[–]arvada14 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

This is idiotic, If I'm 5'3 and am horrible unathletic. Is it lame for me to give up my interest of being in the NBA? Or is it just rational.

[–]Gullible_Diamond_850 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

It is completely rational to give up, but “know thyself”, if the pain of quitting and sitting on the sidelines is greater than the pain of failure then you have to keep trying. Ultimately we are prisoners to our own desires and have to choose one form of punishment over the other.

Consider me for an example, I have been going out to nightclubs for over a year, week after week I have been going out, spending so much money and I have absolutely nothing to show for.

But every week, twice a week. I choose to go out, try my best, come back empty handed and sometimes cry myself to sleep. The alternative would be spending the evening alone at home, ruminating about my desires and my failure to fulfil them and then crying myself to sleep. I can’t do that.

On my deathbed, I would lie smiling knowing that I gave it all and this shitshow is about to end. I don’t want to be the man who died long ago in his spirit but was just waiting for his body to catch up.

[–]belachewhm 5 points6 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I completely agree with this. The serious relationships I have had started with sex (or moreover, sexual desire)

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 10 points11 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I personally think that having the right personality, similar life goals, and being in love with the person is much more important than “sexual compatibility”. The honeymoon phase eventually goes away. Because of this, I prefer to wait until the other person and myself actually have feelings for each other besides lust. I think that couples not waiting until this point before having sex is why many relationships eventually fail.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 4 points5 points  (6 children) | Copy Link

I do agree but I think it's easier to find a matching personality if things start with sex.

Because power imbalance can ruin a relationship between two otherwise matching personalities.

Starting by having sex means there is no power imbalance in the sex department. Assuming there are no significant other imbalances neither partner doesn't get to get away with doing disrespectifull things.

[–]wtknightGen X Slacker 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

To me a matching personality is someone who puts a priority on the other things that I mentioned rather than sex. Of course, there should be initial sexual attraction, but I think that feelings should be prioritized first. I’m not really interested in sex with “strangers”.

But I can see how other people might prioritize sex more. That’s just not as important to me when it comes to ensuring long-term compatibility, though. I think that sexual differences can be worked out easier than personality or goal differences.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

For me personaly i is not the most important thing in a relationship. Feelings are. I want to love and feel loved. Also turns sex into love making... which does sound cringe but... making love > having sex.

In the past I had experienced just that sometimes when the relationship started by having sex.

So in my opinion the best way to find feelings is to... well start with sex.

Offcourse maybe it's just by a random chance.

And maybe there is some unknown reason (my looks, behaviour...) which really makes this strategy the best one for me. In which case I would admit that my opinion has changed... but I still think it's the best strategy for me.

[–]SoopaHottWhat dat mouf do? 1 point2 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

I think viewing sex and relationships as power plays leads to inevitable failure

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

I do agree, and that's why I prefer relationships in which there is no power imbalance.

[–]SoopaHottWhat dat mouf do? 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

but it seems like you view sex as one big power play Having sex right away doesnt eliminate anything And isnt she at a disadvantage as men like to slut shame women who have sex quickly?

[–]Laytheblameonluck 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

But if a partner with a sexual history is more inhibited in that relationship, it pretty much guarantees a dead bedroom relationship - which may suit them fine but not the other parter.

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 7 points8 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

I only realized this a couple of years ago. Every woman who wanted to wait past three dates ended up being a terrible relationship for me. There's truth in the saying " If she wanted to, she would".

[–]BoogersAndSugar 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

If she doesn't find you good enough for something casual, she can't be trusted for something serious.

[–]Wide-Illustrator2906 0 points1 point  (3 children) | Copy Link

I'm gonna steal this.

[–]BoogersAndSugar 2 points3 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Please do :). Young men absolutely need to hear it! One of the top reasons guys find themselves in bad marriages is they don't filter out those women who're just settling for them. They're so enthralled by the fact she's prettier than anyone they've dated before, and they don't even bother to question the true nature of her "attraction" to him.

Men have a hard time believing women can date a guy they're not sexually attracted to, but they definitely DO, and any man looking for a serious relationship NEEDS to start filtering that shit out. Women are only "less visual than men" in a pragmatic sense. Doesn't matter how hot she is, if she's "betabuxing"/settling for him, that relationship WILL become toxic. She WILL eventually resent him. She'll never truly respect him. She'll likely cheat. A dead bedroom is pretty much guaranteed... once she has the 2 kids, the fancier house and whatever else she wanted from him, the mask will come off, then he'll find out how "sexually attracted" to him she REALLY was the entire time. She'll have excessive demands in order to "compensate" for his looks/height, but it'll never be enough, and she'll end up divorcing him anyway. Gotta screen out the settlers...if she doesn't think you're FWB material, then SHE isn't marriage material :).

[–]Available-Ad-9338 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Would you marry a woman who fucked you on the first date?

[–]BoogersAndSugar 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I've come up with exactly the same strategy and it's consistently worked wonderfully. It screens out the women who only find you "attractive" in a pragmatic sense. The quality of relationships that started out as FWBs were on a whole other level - WAY more respectful, no more shitty attitude, no more excessive demands, far more faithful and trustworthy, etc. It's been a major eye-opening experience! Once you experience what it's like to be in a relationship with someone whose legitimately sexually attracted to you, not just pretending to be so, you'll never go back to dating women who are merely "willing" to be with you. I call such women "settlers", and yes, they're trouble down the line - she won't respect you, will eventually resent you, probably cheat on you, will definitely dead-bedroom you, and will come with excessive demands in order to "compensate" for your looks/height (but it'll never be enough), then she'll likely divorce you. Relationships with women who merely "gave you a chance" rarely ever end well.

[–]InfoVariety-8842 4 points5 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

I think the overall point makes sense but you’re looking at it from too lowly of a point, and putting women on too much of a pedestal. Women are more likely to want sparks and magic and feelings, so give it to them if you want to be considered. Set your dates and your personality and your actions up accordingly. Sex is one way. So is having a desirable persona, looking attractive, taking initiative. If you don’t create some magic, a lot of women won’t even consider you romantically at all. Others will claim they don’t care about it, but feel bored and uninterested in the relationship, and have no idea why.

That doesn’t mean men are worthless, or whatever you are implying. But I do think you need to “pursue your target audience,” so to speak, and not treat her with traditional logic that doesn’t apply in todays world.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not implying that men are worthless, just that our commitment is not as worth as it was in the 19th century. Because women have jobs.

So now both of our commitments hold value.

And both of us are valuable as sexual partners. Not a perfectly ballanced situation offcourse... but that's another story.

My point is that we need to play both these cards right. And so do women.

[–]crujones33 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

I understand the pedestal issue in general, but how is OP putting women on a pedestal? It seems he is specifically not.

[–]InfoVariety-8842 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

our commitment is not nearly as worthy as it was 100 years. Also woman commitment has became valuable.

When a guy is looking for a relationship for a woman it seems like he is offering his already not that worthy commitment cheaply.

This creates a situation in which woman seems more valuable then man does.

Too much obsessing over how men have no value. Women want and value commitment from men, except for femcells on Reddit. As a man your commitment and stability is valuable to women. I realize this is Reddit so people will hedge and backtrack about “that’s not what I meant,” I am saying this is all too much of a pity party.

My point is that men do still need to create magic and good vibes as part of the attraction process. Women do different extra things to attract men too, so it’s not like they aren’t doing anything. We just don’t need to wallow and pine for some past glory that is now gone.

[–]crujones33 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Do you mind elaborating more on “magic”? My dating experience is very small so I am not understanding it. Or I just know it by a different term.

I have a longtime girlfriend so I must be doing something correctly.

[–]modidlee 4 points5 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

All the women I had strong sexual chemistry with wanted a relationship with me. The women I didn't have strong sexual chemistry with didn't want a relationship with me. Basically women want relationships with men that are good in bed.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Happy cake day my man!

[–]modidlee 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Thanks! Damn I didn't even realize what that piece of cake was for until now lmao

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 13 points14 points  (42 children) | Copy Link

I think that's just you. Looking for casual sex because there's a chance it might become a relationship is usually counterproductive. And being sexually compatible doesn't ensure any other compatibility.

[–]bigdaveyl 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

What's the old saying? Sex doesn't make the relationship but certainly can kill it or something?

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't really matter if there's no relationship to begin with.

[–]bigdaveyl 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Correct.

My response was in reference to your second sentence:

And being sexually compatible doesn't ensure any other compatibility.

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken -2 points-1 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Other compatability is the biggest determiner of sexual compatability. Not having sex is usually symptomatic of a failed relationship rather than the cause.

[–]Complex-Glass-8539 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

You’re coming at this from a very female POV. From a male POV, this is the way to value yourself and avoid being used and degraded.

There is no universal definition of things that are degrading, it’s about what people find to be that. Dating is for many if not most men. It involves chasing, paying for someone who gives nothing back or really shows little interest once the date starts and has an expectation you will foot the bill for it. Like, I don’t think most women have sat at a table with a guy who acted interested and set down over $100 to be ignored for a woman’s phone, or experienced all of the rejection that dating entails (especially online dating).

For anyone who knows what they are doing, hooking up does not involve that rejection, women who want you let you know, they put themselves next to you, put themselves in your eye line, and give you body language that says “I think you’re sexy”. Yes, the guy usually has to forward things from there, but it’s after getting signs that is what she wants.

If a man can meet women through casual relationships, they should save themselves the degradation that is dating and stop wasting their time on the people who feel entitled to your money, attention and adoration, and stick to the women who show a man, the way men like to be shown, that they are interested by having sex with you because they want to have sex with you, not because they are trying to get something from you.

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken -3 points-2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Damn, you're going on expensive dates. It's not degrading to go on dates. It's not degrading to freely choose to pay for something. And it's not like it's a choice between casual sex or being ignored over expensive meals either. Most people who have casual sex likes to think they're winning through it - even if they're not. Hooking up includes rejection for relationships. And a lot of rejection for hookups happens before you can find a hookup usually. You can meet women through casual sex, but the thing is, those women don't want relationships. If you don't want to give people attention and it's just so painful for you to go on dates or show affection, I'm not sure why you'd want a relationship.

[–]Complex-Glass-8539 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

So, the whole “get rejected for a relationship” as a guy doesn’t happen a lot after you’re sleeping with a woman as long as your life is somewhat put together (have job, don’t be an addict or a prick). The majority of the time, if you want to forward to a relationship, you can, it’s usually the guys call as long as she’s willing to sleep with you a second time (and if you’re just not a prick, and she’s actually single, that will probably happen).

On your statements of degrading, who are you to say what is degrading and what isn’t to another human? It’s purely a matter of POV.

Having someone just want to have sex with you, for someone who is used to others only using them to fill in boredom and be entertained by you without giving anything back (pretty common OLD experience) is a step up.

It is degrading to be expected to pay for something, it is degrading to give attention and validation and receive none in return, it is degrading to be ghosted, it is degrading to “entertain” and put on the show.

Also, like I explained hookups don’t involve rejection usually. There is no investment and it’s all body language, so there isn’t really any direct statements to reject you, because there aren’t direct offers made. If anyone makes a direct offer, it’s usually the woman. I’ve been rejected for one kiss in my life (I’ve kissed a lot of women), which still haunts me. I’ve had women say some rude shit when I tried to talk to them when I was young, but once you learn what to look for, you know who wants to talk to you, when you should leave the convo respectfully, and when she’s very in without anything overt being stated.

[–]Bane_Of_AtlantaA Redneck's Worst Nightmare 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It's not degrading to freely choose to pay for something.

Give me a fucking break, it's expected of us.

And it's not like it's a choice between casual sex or being ignored over expensive meals either.

Most women expect you to be willing to spend money and put in effort "wooing" her if you're asking her out the old-fashioned way, so that kinda is the choice.

Most people who have casual sex likes to think they're winning through it - even if they're not.

Hooking up includes rejection for relationships.

What? Just because you're hooking up doesn't mean either party has ruled out a relationship. You're not "rejected" until the other party explicitly says they don't want a relationship.

You can meet women through casual sex, but the thing is, those women don't want relationships.

"x" to doubt.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/276298948_Gender_difference_in_emotional_reactions_and_sexual_coercion_in_casual_sexual_relations_An_evolutionary_perspective

https://sci-hub.hkvisa.net/10.1007/s10508-011-9841-2

"Casual sex" is rarely "casual" for women. Usually they grow attached and want something more. Probably at least in part due to the fact that women have more oxytocin, the "bonding hormone".

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 8 points9 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

Doesn't ensure yes.

But starting a relationship and waiting for sex doesn't ensure sexual compatibility. And we invest much more time and effort to discover that.

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 5 points6 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

Sexual compatibility is largely dependent on your relationship though. The reverse isn't true.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Ummm... OK if you say so.

[–]fools_errand49 -1 points0 points  (5 children) | Copy Link

For a woman, but not so much for a man. In my early experiences I dated a woman for a whole year before sleeping with her, and when the time came the sex sucked and I lost all attraction to her. We were head over heels in love before that and she loved the sex. Ironically making me wait merely ensured a more difficult heartbreak on her end.

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 1 point2 points  (4 children) | Copy Link

This has been studied, and it's true for women and men. Stopping having or enjoying sex is usually symptomatic of a larger problem.

[–]ChefPsychological302 0 points1 point  (24 children) | Copy Link

"I think that's just you" oh u poor soul, ever heard of the Coolidge effect ? Basically it's the majority of Guys intentions in looking for relationships but again we just don't u Women finding out

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 0 points1 point  (23 children) | Copy Link

Strangely I don't think there's a huge conspiracy for huge amounts of men to lie to literally everyone including other men about what they want and pursue something they don't want. I realise that could be what you want, personally, but you are just one man.

[–]ChefPsychological302 0 points1 point  (22 children) | Copy Link

Most men seek sx other men seek relationships with the sx, the point is if the s*x isn't there then almost almost no men is gonna even look or acknowledge the idea of a of a relationship with a woman, apart from beta men of course

[–]januaryphilosopherWoman/student/UK/radfem/makes first move/healthy BMI/bi/taken 0 points1 point  (21 children) | Copy Link

Most men and women do want sex as part of relationships. It's nowhere near unanimously considered the main point though.

[–]Equal_Ad_3805 4 points5 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

The way you look for relationships isn’t necessarily the way other people should. And you’ll find only what you’re looking for, for the most part. If you’re looking for sex, you’ll primarily find partners that just want casual sex. If you’re looking for a relationship, your primary pool will then be those that are in a relationship. Changing your strategy doesn’t change the outcome because girls aren’t gonna go “I can tell he’s trying to fuck me to see if we’re compatible”, they’re gonna go “ugh He’s just another dude looking for sex”. I don’t think this strategy is a very good one.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 0 points1 point  (2 children) | Copy Link

My past experiences are pointing out that this is a better strategy for me. Can't say it's the best strategy for everyone.

So far I had 1 good relationships for when I was looking for a relationship. Also lots of wasted time, effort and feeling like shit.

And several mutualy satisfactional relationships which started by by just banging.

[–]Equal_Ad_3805 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Well hey, if it works for you it works for you, but (for example) I know it wouldn’t work for me, because even though I’d love to use your strategy because I love sex, my personality doesn’t lend itself to getting sexual encounters very well, much less romantic ones. I don’t have a lot of sex. I don’t have any sex, actually, I only lost my virginity last year. Why would I try to employ this strategy without a significant amount of upfront time investment to build the skills/personality necessary to employ it? And why would I be incentivized to put in such time and effort if it’s not a guarantee that it’ll yield results, as opposed to simply tweaking/working on my current strong points? This isn’t a game, we can’t respec our stats. You’re just built differently, so it works for you. And that’s a great thing actually, I’m glad you found something that works, but I don’t think it’s good advice to give most ppl.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I myself am more of a romantic guy, I value love over sex.

However, probably because of the way I look and behave, women do not see me as someone who is romantic, and are quite surprised to discover that side of me.

If I just seek romance, I fail.

This is perhaps why this approach works better for me... in order to find love I have to look for sex.

[–]rivetcitymayor 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If you are a guy who is looking for a relationship specifically , you are essentially playing the opposite team’s game , on their court and in their home town

You should be looking for sex and pick the one you like most outside of sex for a relationship

[–]Glad-Improvement-812 8 points9 points  (37 children) | Copy Link

It really isn’t hard as a female to find good sex. Or vet for whether it will be good sex before actually having the sex.

[–]Son_of_Tzu 16 points17 points  (34 children) | Copy Link

If its not hard then why do women keep complaining about the quality of their hookups ?

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 6 points7 points  (29 children) | Copy Link

Exactly. Women achieve orgasm in just 40% of hookups, so easy to find a hookup but 60% chance to get "blue balled".

But also not all of those 40% will want to keep having sex because men do have options as well. Expecially the ones which can get hook ups.

[–]Son_of_Tzu 10 points11 points  (28 children) | Copy Link

You think the ones getting easy access to hookups are putting effort in pleasing their partners ?

Thats not how it works. Men who use women as a commodity dont take care of them (a large part of the 60%), and those who do (minority of the 40%) tend to enter long term fwb situations with those who provide the best "service" (while still fucking on the side for novelty sake).

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 4 points5 points  (27 children) | Copy Link

The ones which do have easy acces don't because "gold cock" syndrome.

I consider myself to be an a bit above average guy. And on a really good day even a liteChad. I do get results, but admittedly it's a hard work.

I do make the effort and I always make a woman cum.

However even though I'm not a Chad I had rejected some women which had slept with me. Because I'm not desperate and if I find woman to be sexually incompatible... what's the point?

Women tend to think that if they are sexually satisfied, there is sexual compatibility. But unless guy is desperate for any sex, sexual compatibility is a two way street.

[–]funlightmandarin 8 points9 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Most people don't leave a review unless they're dissatisfied.

[–]Glad-Improvement-812 9 points10 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

They don’t vet properly. Or, more likely, they’re not taking responsibility for their own part in the act. If I’m feeling underwhelmed by a guy’s skill level I just take the lead, problem solved.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 6 points7 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Finding a good sexual partner is easy for you, because you are smart at veting, and you are not afraid to take the initiative.

Congratulations! No sacrasm intended, really good job.

But hook-up orgasm gap suggests that you are an outlier.

[–]vorterNo Pill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Probably involves a lack of willingness to directly communicate what they want and don’t want in bed, if they even know what they want or how to get themselves off. There are shitty dudes out there for sure but if you’ve gone through a bunch of guy and haven’t found a single decent fwb then something’s going wrong. My female friends that are hooking up eventually find several reliable guys to set up regular dick appointments with.

[–]monkymonkk🍑🌺🌸Pink Pussy Pill🌸🌺🍑 5 points6 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

How does one “vet” a man for good sex before doing anything sexual with him?

What might be “good sex” for you might not be good sex for others. I know some women are broken inside and need to be punched and slapped and verbally degraded; this might be good sex to one woman but to me its just sad sex

[–]SykeYouOut 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Omg thank you for saying that. I feel the same way & having to tell men that I do not like being choked always felt so strange, I shouldn’t have to say that but at some point many assumed this was a universal thing & would do it without even asking.

To me, if a man is a bad kisser then I assume he’s not great (or compatible with me) sexually. Thats usually my only cue, how things are & feel when making out.

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[–]Lysa_Bellpost wall ghost 8 points9 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

*obviously this doesn't apply to the very vocal n-count-hoe crowd on here that want virgin women

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 6 points7 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

Men which really are insiting on a virgin in modern times should visit a therapist.

However I feel like men on this sub expresing this preference are just doing so to get back at "hoes", to make them look cheap. Given the chance they wouldn't mind eating "hoes" ass.

[–]HMosadek 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Has nothing to do with getting back at them. They’ve never wronged me, as I would never be with one for that to happen.

It’s about preferences and standards, in a world where women are allowed to have them and men aren’t.

[–]Laytheblameonluck 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Umm...It does.

Low n-count women are a premium for relationships, so harder to get.

[–]SmarmyPapsmearsMarried but likes to talk shit 3 points4 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I feel like this is kinda common sense?

Men need to vet until they get sex, and even after sex. Our only leverage is the relationship that women so desperately fiend.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well I feel kinda like an idiot 😂

[–]youarockandnothing 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I think this is true for probably something like 75 percent of women nowadays. The game for women is trying to secure commitment from a guy they want to be fucked by first and foremost, it's only a minority of women who are rejecting the advances of "fuckboys"/players for trying to go sex-first.

[–]PlatypusPolka 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I kinda thought they already do that.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

We are not a monolith.

Some do, and with the exception of organically grown relationships I would argue this is a more sucessful strategy.

[–]antariuszRed Pill Man 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can’t disagree with the OP, I do it myself.

[–]Laytheblameonluck 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I can't disagree, this is my experience.

If you're looking for a relationship you're desperate.

If you're looking for sex you've got swagger and confidence.

[–]BikerbatsNo Pill 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Can't argue OP. Everything I've seen points to the same conclusion.

[–]calfshrug 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I also found the love of my life in a place I never expected. And it was just in the pursuit of sex. But I became the worse partner, not the better. I was a liar from the beginning because of my inadequacies and insecurity and compulsion and lack of feeling that I could be ok.

I didn’t have sex with her until dating over a month, also, so she put it off for a long time, and it was her first time

[–]bunnakaybirth control pill 2 points3 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

If you prioritize sex above all else, sure. But that's exactly why I make men wait: to filter that type out.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm going to believe you.

But some women make guys wait for other reasons. And I'm filtering them out.

[–]AntiFeminismAU 2 points3 points  (9 children) | Copy Link

You have a point. However the way I see it is that if a woman is able to resist sex on the first date it means her libido is usually too low for me. I have a very high libido and need a partner with similar. If a girl has a very high libido it will be too difficult for her to wait. So in that way i’m actually most compatible with women who have sex on the first date since it means our libido will match.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 5 points6 points  (8 children) | Copy Link

I would politely disagree. Women do have a higher/lower libido, but also higher/lower impulse control just as we do. So a woman can have high libido, but also high impulse control, meaning that she is horny but she can wait.

Once in my life time I was with such a GF. Religious and high impulse control, and an absolute unit in bed. She would never cheat on me, but religious differences caused brakeup.

However women with low libido, and women which don't finds us that sexually atractive will often fake high impulse control.

As an example a high-N woman which doesn't find her BF sexually attractive is making him wait and is virtue signaling high impulse control.

For that reason it is simply not worth going for high libido / high impulse control women.

[–]AntiFeminismAU -1 points0 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

I disagree. In my experience the horniest women simply cannot wait, their desire for sex is just too high. This will then overrule their impulse control.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

Well let's just agree to disagree as two grown up adults.

Lol, just kiding, this is internet.

Food fiiiiiight!

🥭🍍🍏🍐🍌

[–]Available-Ad-9338 0 points1 point  (5 children) | Copy Link

Once in my life time I was with such a GF. Religious and high impulse control, and an absolute unit in bed. She would never cheat on me, but religious differences caused brakeup.

If she was so religious, she wouldn't have had sex before marriage.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 1 point2 points  (2 children) | Copy Link

Yup. She wasn't a religious fanatic.

Still highly religious by my standards.

[–]Available-Ad-9338 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

Staying abstinent until marriage is the absolute bare minimum for religious people, not "religious fanaticism".

[–]FlyV89 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

There are lots of religious people who are not religious-crazy level you know.

Religious is basically like sexuality. You are not just a virgin or a whore-manwhore, there are lots of people in the middle.

[–]Available-Ad-9338 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Staying abstinent until marriage is the absolute bare minimum, and was the social norm until the sexual revolution. How is waiting until marriage "religious crazy level"?

[–]platinirismsBlackpill 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I don’t care about sex, I care about meeting someone who’s values are similar to mine and who I can see myself hanging out with multiple hours a day.

Just looking for sex means sleeping with women who, while I would be physically attracted to them, I could not date for long due to having vastly different values in life.

Aka, sleeping with women you know doesn’t want kids when you youself want kids, what’s the point?

[–]labellefille28 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

That’s faulty logic and not reflective of want most women want or pretend to want. Sex and a relationship are entirely different things. Sex is a physical act that can bring connection or intimacy or can just be perfunctory and a relationship by nature is lead by connection, compatability, values and intimacy. Just cause I have great sex with someone doesn’t mean I want a relationship with them or they are great relationship material. Sex releases chemicals and those chemicals can illicit the ‘feels’ but doesn’t mean it’s grounds for anything else.

[–]Flightlessbirbz 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

If it works for you, that’s cool. But everyone is different, and a lot of women don’t want to have sex until a relationship is established. For men who care about sexual past this also would be poor advice since you’re filtering out low n women. Low n women stay that way by “making” men wait.

[–]kblkbl165Purple Pill Man 1 point2 points  (1 child) | Copy Link

100% agreed. Have to confess it was incredibly surprising for me when I started visiting PPD and found out there are people who get in a relationship prior to having sex/checking for sexual compatibility.

Not only it sounds like jumping a few steps for me but it also sounds simply counterintuitive. You’re going out with a lady once or twice, you’re both attracted to each other and are having a nice time, why the he’ll wouldn’t you two want to have sex ASAP?

I guess I’m too much of a manwhore that women that hold on to sex as a bargaining tool simply steer away from me. Can’t complain from my part, all my relationships were extremely fulfilling while they lasted and now I can look back fondly to most of them, one of the reasons being that sex compatibility is a huge aspect for me and it was always something taken into consideration.

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 3 points4 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

I had both.

My current relationship started, well we banged like animals. I feel validated by my partner, my partner seems happy with me and we are building up this relationship, growing closer together.

The relationship before that, she kept me waiting to inflate her value, wasn't happy because she felt more valuable then me, then I found out about her previous hook-ups... I didn't felt happy with a partner that feels so much more valuable then me, expecially since that sense of value was inflated so I just left.

Both of us wasted time and effort on nothing, no relationship, no sex.

[–]Mindless-Spare-2454 -1 points0 points  (7 children) | Copy Link

I’m sorry but this sentence is anecdotal at best.

“Mens commitment is not nearly as valuable, also Women’s commitment has become valuable”

I’m what world have you been dating, because I think most people would say either parties commitment is valuable to the person they are committing to. You are not entitled to someone’s devotion or commitment, you have to work for it.

It’s also proven that women make men they want a relationship with wait for the physical, but men they don’t see a future with they will just have sex.

Also the fact you’ve based this entirely off sex tells me you’re either very young or just incredibly naive. As a 30 year old successful man who takes care of himself, I couldn’t give a shit about the sex with a woman. I want the intimacy, intellectual equal, someone who will push me to be better & support me in my endeavours.

[–]Thehebben 1 point2 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

It’s also proven that women make men they want a relationship with wait for the physical, but men they don’t see a future with they will just have sex.

Do you have a source for that because it sounds stupid. I would assume because they cant get relationship with the men they just have sex with

[–]smallstarseeker1 points [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

I don't see how any of this is adding any value whatsoever to the duscussion.

You are just trying to bash me, and then you point out how superior you think you are.

I'm 37 years old and you sound like a common, plain narcis.

So... my dick is bigger then yours, now go away.

[–]Mindless-Spare-2454 -1 points0 points  (3 children) | Copy Link

But there isn’t any discussion to have. You’ve laid out what you perceive to be the only way for people to date. I’ve just tried to tell you that as a man this isn’t a great way to date whatsoever.

The fact you call me a narcissist and yet cannot see how this

“Men who want a relationships should instead look for sex. Because that’s the best way to start a good relationship”

Isn’t narcissistic smells of irony. This post has got to be satire right.

[–]smallstarseeker1 points [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

You already bashed me then started virtue signaling. That's narcissistic as fuck and you can't turn that around anymore.

I politely ask you to leave me alone, I have no desire to engage in further discussion with you. If you do not respect my wishes I will be forced to block you.

[–]Mindless-Spare-2454 -1 points0 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

Please tell me where I’ve bashed you? I know nothing about you. I’m sorry your understanding of virtue signalling is poor, I haven’t stated once I’m better than you, I just have a different perspective from my experience with background on myself. If you feel attacked by that, that’s on you not me.

I gave you my opinion with my personal experience. Similar to what you’ve done, don’t want me to respond they why comment? I won’t sit back and let you dismiss my point.

The fact you commented on Reddit and cannot deal with people having different opinions & experiences to you is astounding.

[–]jellybeanzandtingsModerator[M] 0 points1 point locked comment (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil. Do not abuse the block function.

[–]jellybeanzandtingsModerator[M] 0 points1 point locked comment (0 children) | Copy Link

Be civil. You are answering CMVs be mindful of that.

[–]wtffellification 0 points1 point  (1 child) | Copy Link

> Looking at my past all my relationships

Yeah, how did that work out for you?

[–]smallstarseekerCritical thinker[S] 2 points3 points  (0 children) | Copy Link

The ones which started with sex worked out just fine.

And only one of those ended because our relationship had deteriorated to the point of brakeup.

Rest of them ended due to outside factors.

[–]Haunting_Afternoon62 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

If anyone agrees with this they should also not care about n count because this philosophy will make their count waaay higher

[–]Haunting_Afternoon62 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And this can get you stuck in toxic relationships too because you are too pussy whipped or dickmatized

[–]Haunting_Afternoon62 0 points1 point  (0 children) | Copy Link

And increasing chances of having a kid with someone u don't even love, or something toxic and creating a horrible cycle for the child. If only my mom wasn't dickmatized, I would have been safe from so much trauma

You can kill a man, but you can't kill an idea.

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