After romantic rejection, men feel less positive emotion and hold shifted socio-political attitudes. Women do not follow the same pattern.

Filmguy000 · 2022-09-06T16:49:09+00:00

I'm not too sure about this. I mean it can certainly be possible for a percentage of incels but those guys are the minority that may suffer from other psychological issues. And unfortunately the combination of how those types are being portrayed in the media and being a generally unattractive male causes these men to be more alienated.

I myself am in my late 30s and was never popular with women. I have had a couple girlfriends but never even came close to anything casual. Being a man, I can it admit that living a mostly sexless life can be pretty depressing. Women tend to not get it (because they truly can't wrap their head around the male experience with no sex) and sexually successful men have no frame of reference on my life so they think its utterly and completely my fault (Just World Fallacy).

As far as political leanings, I am very much libertarian. Looking back maybe my lack of sexual success had some factor. You have to understand, just because I was not a sexually attractive person, I still participated in society. I have worked full time since I was 15. I graduated with multiple degrees. And I recently bought my own home. But the fact that I am now very much a loner makes people (including family) kind of look at me as some sort of loser. And over time I found myself less interested in people because not having women had a snowball effect on my image (especially being in my late 30s).

And despite that, I always did have an active social life and had many friends (men and women) over the years. People, in general, liked me as a person because despite being introverted, I always liked hanging out am an overall chill person. I have had other incel friends but a lol of them are too negative and have crab bucket mentality. Many women really have no idea and seem to just dislike men like me just for being late 30's, having a steady income, having money in the bank, and owning a home (almost as if saying, "no, you are totally not my type, but fuck you for not being with a woman). And other people are a combination of all these things.

Being unsuccessful with women, for me, was caused by many factors (including physical, being very introverted, being raised by an overbearing religious single mom). And now I really find myself not really caring anymore about love and romance. But yet, people still look at me with some sort of suspicion or resentment. So it's like, you don't want to date me and/or you can't think of anyone who would want to date me, yet you are still mad at me about something?

At the end of the day, being a sexually unsuccessful man is a very lonely place to be. And I can totally see how it can drive many off the deep end emotionally. Because as I stated before, even though I am otherwise pretty well adjusted and stable, people consider me selfish and even an outcast. And as a result I really did stop caring a lot about society because I came to the conclusion that most people are basically hypocritical and dumb. I am libertarian because I think we should all live as we see fit. I'll leave you alone. And I expect the same from everyone else. But unfortunately, most don't like to see a guy like me have a far more stable and peaceful life than most "successful people". So no matter what, I will probably always face a large degree of social rejection/alienation.

CosmicBioHazard · 2022-09-06T15:36:06+00:00

I mean, I can’t really argue on a personal level; I’ve seen a lot of rejection in my life and ended up fairly conservative, but I have a hard time believing that an uptick in success with women now would change that.

Also, for every right-wing incel I’ve seen I can also think of several loser men who go from there to full male feminist. I have to wonder, though, whether those guy’s support for casual sex and socialism is something they think will benefit them getting laid. Like I can see the logic: sluttier women will have lower standards and if the government provides for you other men lose their financial advantage. What benefit does cutting social spending have for loser men? I guess like “lower social assistance widens the gap between me and the competition when and if I manage to outearn them”, but still…

I would expect the ‘gets no bitches right’ to be made up mainly of men who are confident they can at least get one woman to like them, regardless of how long it takes. Right wing values are made by and for the nuclear family and an incel with a chance knows casual fun is out of the question and is probably preparing for the day he ends up with no choice but to marry the first woman to sleep with him.

andrejusilva123 · 2022-09-06T14:12:29+00:00

Unpopular men reported less support for casual sex than popular men.

Unpopular low mate-value women reported more support for casual sex

This is in tact with surveys that attractive men and ugly women have the highest numbers of casual sex partners.

Women changing their socio-political attitudes have more to lose because they benefit more from them than men and the money for these things mostly comes from men.

Here is a study that when woman is rejected by an attractive man she becomes more bitter towards an accepting man who is unnatractive. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/1948550615584196?journalCode=sppa

Karmanger · 2022-09-06T14:39:19+00:00

Heterosexual participants (N = 237) reported their trait mate value. Participants then recorded a video of themselves and received video responses from five opposite-sex peers, each consisting of either positive or negative romantic feedback—forming the manipulation (popularity: from low to high). Afterwards, we measured participants’ attitudes to traditional gender roles, casual sex, minimum wage and healthcare, and implicit sexual and political attitudes.

If I'm understanding this correctly, what this is saying is.... The subjects rated themselves on a trait mate value (which the article doesn't define what that is).... Then they recorded a video of themselves (saying what? an introduction? their politics?)

Then forming the manipulation... what does that mean? are they admitting to manipulating the subjects feelings or emotional state on purpose? did they determine from the start who they wanted to be popular? How did they measure some ones attitude did they ask direct questions or did they do inferring questions..

The study only used 237 people and didn't say how they collected the subjects.... so they could all be college students.... they could have gotten all the men from Alabama and all the women from NYC (unlikely but I'm proving a point).

I would take this with a grain of salt due to the unexplained methods.

NockerJoe · 2022-09-06T12:35:19+00:00

I mean it seems kinda obvious just by looking at the opinions these guys hold on a broad scale. They want dating to have some sort of sorting system where they get placed with a match because its "fair" but on every political issue they lean hard right. Or else they're very easily swayed to weird fringe beliefs that don't have a lot to do with sex or relationships. There's a reason influencers in that sphere so often seem to ping pong between being a pickup coach or a traditionalist advocate since their viewpoints aren't a logically constructed consistent belief system so much as they're reacting to the general mood of their audiencd.

But at the same time, why would they support those things? The kind of guy who has these issues rarely makes minimum wage and is the demographic least likley to go to a doctor. Once they hit adulthood if they do 't have kids they don't really need to care about public education with any immediacy or urgency. They're also way less likley to work for public service or in the medical industey or any of the fields these policies actually impact.

As weird as it is to say, human relationships are essentially the buy in price for many men to really care about a lot of social issues, because those are the only way they'll ever be impacted by those issues directly in most cases, whereas they'll still see the taxes come out of their pay every time regardless. This is just kinda the political systems problem to solve since they either need to get people paired off or else give them another reason to get engaged, and in a world where most people are generally apolitical and we live in a world where reactionary politics run big.

EasternToe3824 · 2022-09-06T13:57:43+00:00

The study itself states that they still have to separate correlation and causation.

midwesternMD · 2022-09-06T22:25:17+00:00

Mid-30s man here.

I haven’t read the paper. But at face value, I would agree, as it has been my experience. And I find that disturbing.

I was raised fairly liberal, and I still ascribe to generally liberal/left leaning belief systems. But, if I feel like I’m being left in the dust romantically (some days I do), I don’t have the emotional bandwidth to give a shit about the plight of women. Any of it. In those moments, I don’t care about wage inequality, I don’t care about sexual harassment, I don’t care about sexual assault, I don’t care about reproductive rights, etc. In those moments, I don’t care about any of that because I am more preoccupied with my romantic life.

Again, I find this deeply disturbing.

On some level, it makes sense. If you exhaust your emotional reserves to cope with a shitty situation, you won’t have the capacity to care about others. But I have noticed that at times, I go past not caring, and even see a lot of positives to some values that I generally feel are more regressive. And that’s disturbing. Because I can bitch and moan about not getting laid because I’m short, fat, not white, not a celebrity, or whatever other nonsense of the day. In general, I know and accept that getting laid and being in a happy relationship happens in the context of a world in which people have free will, and who I think is a good match may feel that I’m not a good match, and that’s okay. But I’m also not an idiot. I know that I’m blessed with a strong family network, high paying/historically respectable career, and good health. If someone like me is going to struggle despite having those advantages, you’d better believe that I want to cling on to every advantage I’ve got. So I recognize that perpetuating a wage gap, for example, at least doesn’t reward women (in general) for ignoring me. It’s a bit childish, and not fully rational/logical, but it is what I feel.

And if someone like me, who has the benefit of being educated and the luxury to think/reflect (as opposed to someone who needs to worry about their next paycheck), can think like that at some times, then I can completely empathize and easily see how masses of single men can start to easily skew their political viewpoints conservatively.

I don’t see a solution here. But I do think that the crux of what this paper is trying to illustrate is a real phenomena. At the very least, I know that when I’m in a sufficiently long dry spell, I can embrace and even sometimes empathize with red pill, manosphere content, conservative ideologies, etc.

But, I’m human, and I think it’s okay to do that. It’s just a disturbing thought process. And I’m fortunate to be desirable enough that none of those thoughts have had a chance to become entrenched in my psyche. But if another man struggles for years, I could easily see him going full redpill/manosphere/extreme conservative. And I don’t think I could fault him for that. After all, he and society failed to provide him with an environment in which he could succeed as a man, start a family, etc. What allegiance should he have to that society? What allegiance should be have to himself?

jacare_o · 2022-09-06T13:33:01+00:00

So the concept of "big d**k energy" is true?

Anyway, the men getting laid less or zero times have a vote too. They are free to exercise it as they see fit.

If you want to keep them contributing to society when they get nothing out of it is like slavery.

AidsVictim · 2022-09-06T15:53:13+00:00

“It may seem farfetched to say that an individual’s dating life can influence the individual’s socio-political attitudes. Yet, it is becoming more evident that romantic successes and failures in our everyday dating life can have profound impacts on the ways we think and act,” said study author Francesca R. Luberti, a postdoctoral research fellow at Nipissing University in North Bay.

It doesn't seem far fetched at all. Rather the inverse is true - it would be unexpected if one of the most fundamental elements of human socialization did not affect their politics. Thinking that it wouldn't is only "common sense" in a profoundly alienated society.

Inside-Lynx-5032 · 2022-09-06T12:56:50+00:00

Its amazing that i can see why this would be the way it is and most of you ( women especially) can just chose to mock. Like i get it, you want to continue to benefit of their backs as you always have but you want them to be happy about it.them being unhappy about it makes you uncomfortable but the rationalize it away by thinking " they are all terrible people anyway " because if they are terrible people they deserve to be unhappy

We should try to build a world where boys and girls can expect kindness and help. When their life is distrust and hostility why would you expect them to be anything but selfish.

You are surprised that the abused dog bit you

Nihi1986 · 2022-09-07T01:30:38+00:00

To be fair, I'm more open minded when my dating life works (exists?) than when it's a failure and become more conservative than my grandpa who served the army under a catholic fascist dictatorship 🤔

Jokes(?) aside, this was very obvious by just looking at the incel community.

Acceptable_Parking96 · 2022-09-07T04:55:47+00:00

Women don’t get rejected and in the rare case they do they can find someone else in 10 minutes who will simp for them

DrinkItInMan11 · 2022-09-06T12:58:05+00:00

Funnily enough it wasn't rejection that made me lean towards taking the Red Pill. It was wanting a change on my dating scene, I grew tired of being the guy women wanted for relationships, basically the consolation prize guy, and I wanted to be the hookup guy.

I got what I wanted.

MadLad-AnthonyWayne · 2022-09-06T14:51:22+00:00

Women don't get rejected - they're the ones doing the rejecting. Anthropologists are pseudoscientists btw

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-09-06T15:11:38+00:00

Groundbreaking /s

KingWhoCared86 · 2022-09-06T16:35:25+00:00

As pretty much a textbook definition of an incel, I would say that my political leanings have slowly become more conservative over the years. And also a more pessimistic and sometimes slightly hostile worldview toward others. But I guess having a catholic upbringing more or less compels me to always help out whenever possible even when I truly have no desire to.

resultsmatter1 · 2022-09-07T12:02:09+00:00

Given what’s happened the last decade or so in the dating market, I’m not surprised. The rise of neofeminism and liberalism has hurt the average man and below in the dating market.

I’ve found my own political beliefs changing as well. I used to be very liberal and all my friends and family still think I am. But as my income increased, I’m less a fan of economic policies put out by democrats and sociopolitically am all for rights and freedom to choose but the woke movement has gone too far.

Think how much we’ve changed as a society, if the office was on tv today the entire cast, crew, and studio would be cancelled.

Ohmaygahh · 2022-09-08T15:54:10+00:00

Not surprising. I definitely shifted my own thoughts of government help and directed monies from very liberal to more fiscally conservative, don't you dare use the money I am forced to pay taxes on to fund single women who birthed multiple children by multiple men.

Valuable-Marzipan761 · 2022-09-06T14:18:48+00:00

So "incel" is a legitimate insult then if it has a significant impact on their personality.

AcceptableJury6561 · 2022-09-06T14:38:40+00:00

No surprise. People who are feeling down are resentful of happy people and thus desire to extinguish the happiness of others. "If I'm unhappy, no one deserves to be happy!"

ruthofhades · 2022-09-06T15:27:39+00:00

I highly doubt the validity of this study. You people are willing to believe anything just because it is called a "study", no wonder we have a replication crisis. Francesca Luberti from Nipissing U, not even a professor yet just a postdoc at a no-name university? Has anyone looked her up? Hardly an impressive pedigree, and her personal views make it quite clear this was done with an agenda.

I'm just doing a quick run through of the results and this is what I see:

The pairwise contrasts showed that men reported significantly more support for casual sex than women did when men and women received 0–2 negative feedback videos out of 5, but the sex difference was not significant when men and women received 3–5 negative feedback videos out of 5. The slopes of the effect of negative feedback on PC2 were significantly different for women and men. For women, the slope was not significantly different from 0, whereas for men the slope was significantly different from 0 and negative. These results suggested that there was no main effect on women. Instead, men led to believe they were unpopular with opposite-sex peers reported significantly less support for casual sex than men led to believe they were popular.

So you can already see how it is kind of being twisted. Even if her results were accurate, what is happening is men show a high support for casual sex when they get it, while women don't. At the same time, men and women were pretty much the same when they got negative views. But of course since men showed an increase when they got casual sex, the delta difference would be higher for men so Luberti is misrepresenting it as men show a negative response when they are unpopular when the actual result is that they just hold the same views as women under those conditions. And that is just what I found in 2 seconds, I'm sure there's much more stuff if you read the whole study.

houstongradengineer · 2022-09-06T12:43:35+00:00

Teehee I knew my socialist husband was a Chad XD

Historical-System972 · 2022-09-06T12:56:55+00:00

Most women will never face romantic rejection once in their lifetime - how did they come this conclusion?

EventSea8621 · 2022-09-06T13:39:38+00:00

yeh no shit, ive been rejected enough to not even try anymore, i also think we should be able to choose where my tax money goes as opposed to single mothers spreading their legs and woman's birth control/abortions.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2022-09-06T12:47:52+00:00

"Men are the more rational/logical gender" is one the biggest shitting lies that still gets told.

Railgunner79 · 2022-09-09T09:34:37+00:00

Wow. Is that supposed to be a shock to anyone? I don’t think a scientific study to figure that out. Men and women are different. More importantly women have much more sexual opportunity than men and that makes a big difference on their outlook than men.

yep20193 · 2022-09-06T14:01:33+00:00

Not sure how we can regard anything as conclusive from a sample of 237 people . I'm of the opinion its not necessarily dating success but how disagreeable/agreeable they are.

herefortheparty01 · 2022-09-06T15:56:39+00:00

So we’re mocking unlucky men. Ok. Just wanted to be clear

RedditsOlderBrah · 2022-09-06T12:35:40+00:00

Incredible. I would never have thought that the traditionally emotionally volatile gender (men) would turn into massive fucking pussies when a girl ticks 'no' on their do u lik me? note. They will fly into a rage so hysterical that they will oppose minimum wage rises and your ability to not die of preventable conditions.

“We also found that unpopular men reported lower positive affect (positive emotions such as happiness, enthusiasm, and pride) than popular men, and in turn men with lower positive affect reported less support for casual sex, as well as less support for increasing the minimum wage and access to healthcare, than men with higher positive affect.”

Incredible.

southern_dilettante · 2022-09-06T12:31:20+00:00

Austrian school shills in a nutshell

AppliedAutism · 2022-09-06T14:26:14+00:00

Women starting to learn that actions have consequences heh.

SeveralSadEvenings · 2022-09-06T15:18:05+00:00

Makes sense, my husband was the biggest slut I know but he's also a diehard socialist.

ruboyuri · 2022-09-06T14:03:04+00:00

I guess men are the illogical gender swayed by emotions not facts, lol

But we already knew that

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Yuo_cna_Raed_Tihs · 2022-09-06T14:13:12+00:00

Only incels oppose Universal healthcare and minimum wage increases 😎

EasternDog4196 · 2022-09-06T13:37:51+00:00

Depends on who woman is getting rejected by.

riverden · 2022-09-06T16:42:58+00:00

I feel like the study is being reductionist and idealist blaming an entire social issue on a simple concept that being rejection. I don't think a rejection or string of rejection can actually shift someone's political views. I was always against casual sex because I didn't even knew it existed until college not because I was rejected by women. In fact getting rejected by women did not change my political views or make me hate women. I even tried to remain good friends with the girls and women who rejected me. now what I think might be the case is that rejection made men who already held right wing views strengthened their position in some aspects. Plus I think one study is not enough to make a solid conclusion as to why people hold negative attitude towards casual sex which I think is much deeper than getting rejected. Again look at me I don't think I will get a gf in my life time but I do get happy when I see other people in relationships and see romance in media. I never blamed women for rejecting me and I have even tried to remain good friends with them. But I still hold negative attitude towards casual sex namely hook up culture which I am not going to debate anyone on here about. So how do you explain me, what makes me an outlier in all this?

FutureBannedAccount2 · 2022-09-06T20:56:49+00:00

This doesn’t make sense. They gave these people random positive/negative videos of feed back then quizzed them on their social views? How do they know these people changed based on the views of the video and didn’t already believe these things prior?

Where are the actual results at?

Laytheblameonluck · 2022-09-06T23:41:38+00:00

What is a man's popularity in the dating market?

The problem with this study is the implied sexual dichotomy expressed upon men, written into the paper as a given.

Purplepeeps1 · 2022-09-07T01:50:38+00:00

Probably because women don't feel entitled to a relationship.

It's just pushed on women to be with men.

kenshn1 · 2022-09-07T09:26:48+00:00

So they just ignored any conclusions for women in their results statement "Unpopular low mate-value women reported more support for casual sex than popular low mate-value women."

noodlespinel · 2022-09-08T23:58:11+00:00

be happier then /j /nsrs

Title	After romantic rejection, men feel less positive emotion and hold shifted socio-political attitudes. Women do not follow the same pattern.
Author	smallstarseeker
Upvotes	181
Comments	283
Date	September 6, 2022 12:03 PM UTC (5 months ago)
Subreddit	/r/PurplePillDebate
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/after-romantic-rejection-men-feel-less-positive.1129879 https://theredarchive.com/post/1129879
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/x78tl5/after_romantic_rejection_men_feel_less_positive/