Do most women underestimate their sexual bargaining power in modern times?

Gravel_Roads · 2024-02-27T13:26:40+00:00

The "bargaining power" you're talking about is a social construct; it developed because men wanted to have sex with women more than women wanted to have sex with them back. So men called it "POWER" that women have over them, rather than like... not wanting to fuck because they biologically don't want to fuck the same as men.

That isn't power unless you GIVE it power.

In this lens, there are MULTIPLE TYPES of women:

Women who internalized this notion and THINK they have power - Each time a man say "WOMEN HAVE TOO MUCH BARGAINING POWER", there is a potential woman hearing him and learning she has power... from the very man complaining about it. Generally, they're stupid and don't understand that this "power" doesn't mean much in society (outside of on equally stupid men), and often they end up burned and embarrassed when they try to "use" it. (Like women who try and get men to buy them drinks at the bar.)
Women who have heard this notion but disagree that it's a "power"- Then there are women who are told "YOU'RE SOOOOO LUCKY SO MANY MEN WANT TO FUCK YOU" but like. These women have been dealing with "many men wanting to fuck them" since they were like 12 years old and it hasn't been fun. Knowing most men would hump her hole if she held still long enough isn't as exciting for her to think about as it is for the men who are thinking about it. These women would rather be left alone because the pressure doesn't feel good for them.
Women who have never heard this notion, but have strong self esteem and think of themselves as powerful - Some women don't give a shit. They want what they want and they pursue it. These are the "female Chad" types who DGAF, understand that haters are just gonna hate, and they just go do what they want. They've never heard of RedPill or BluePill because they are too busy doing real-life things and don't spend time on social media.
Women who have never heard NOR experienced this and would love to have this "power". - Then there are women who don't get sexual attention in real life, either because they're too shy to go out, or they're not attractive. They'd love for a man to come romance her and treat her sweetly and hold her when she's lonely (which is usually a lot), but men don't offer her sweet treatment and gentle embraces - they'd rather just pump and dump, and don't want to be seen in public with her.

Either way, this "power" is still mostly bogus because it's mostly just the power to get men to want to fuck you. If you want something other than that, it's gonna produces significantly diminishing returns in your day to day life.

ArmariumEspada · 2024-02-27T12:55:53+00:00

In the past, men were the ones who controlled marriage and sex. Forced marriage, polygamy, concubinage, etc. were commonplace (and are still practiced in modern times). The idea that women had any kind of real power is ludicrous.

Women don’t “give” men sex. Consenting adults engage in sex of their own volition. Women have sex with those men out of their own sexual motivations as well, it isn’t a male-only desire.

Otjahe · 2024-02-27T13:06:13+00:00

Have it entered your mind that perhaps the women that "give sex for free" actually WANT to have sex? What most men fail to realize is that going by this sort of logic, everyone "settles". As a man I might WANT a 145iq woman with a angelic face, f-cup titties, huge butt, super funny etc etc but what I "settle" for is different. Just look at the average couple, most people are in the same economical class, and level of attractiveness etc.

CardiBacardi2022 · 2024-02-27T13:52:14+00:00

why would I want to trap a guy into marrying me for sex? Why wouldn’t I deliberately find someone who loves me and is compatible with me and isn’t just marrying me because they’re desperate to get laid ?

campskills21 · 2024-02-27T12:28:56+00:00

Man, you guys really gotta stop caring about women already. Just let the world burn

krackedy · 2024-02-27T12:47:19+00:00

Most women don't realize how desperate most guys are I don't think.

They always think they're ugly over the weirdest shit.

My wife's main insecurities are:

Small ears "Weird knees" Inverted nipples/small breasts Sharp canine teeth

She literally thinks those are hideous flaws. Every woman I've dated has been insecure about stupid shit.

They never realize their power.

dacution · 2024-02-27T13:09:20+00:00

In the old days, women were more successful in locking down men because men knew they couldn't get sex from them unless they married them, and that was the price. So a lot more marriages happened in the past as a result.

This is technically not true. Look up shotgun marriages. A lot of people would have sex outside of marriage then get married if pregnancy happened.

However today women are fine giving guys sex casually, so they cannot lock the guys down so much, if the guys are getting it for free. But if one were to suggest to most women to use their sexual bargaining power and not give the guy sex until way later into a relationship, or even marriage, most women I am guessing, will say that if they do that, the guy is just going to get thet sex somewhere else, and concentrate on those women instead.

Women are having casual sex because they like sex. Sex is a biological need, marriage is not. Sometimes women do use sex as a bargaining chip. Other times, the biological need for sex overpowers womens’ desire for commitment; and they have it casually.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-02-27T12:34:08+00:00

I don’t think woman had any power until now.

She rarely got to choose the man she actually wanted and had to make do with who bought her/father approved of. Even then, she didn’t get a choice in whether she wanted sex or not, it was her job as a wife to provide him with heirs.

Nowadays, woman are more balanced with men and they sleep with who they actually want and the majority end up with the guys they love too.

This fantasy that nowadays most marriages are just woman settling is ludicrous

wtknight · 2024-02-27T13:17:07+00:00

The thing is, with reliable birth control, many women want to have sexual fun with the men who attract them, too, just like men always have with women. Men and women aren’t much different in this regard. Women are just much more selective.

Women often aren’t thinking ahead to things like “I want to lock down this man and therefore I’ll withhold sex even though I want to have it with him”. They just figure, if the man doesn’t stay loyal or committed to her, then he wasn’t the right guy.

Most people just aren’t master Machiavellian manipulators when it comes to sex. People just want to have fun and be happy, and reliable birth control and the social acceptance of casual sex allows this for women.

So to answer your question, I don’t think that most women care what their “sexual bargaining power” is.

Siliconmage76 · 2024-02-27T16:31:59+00:00

Anyone who thinks women give anything for free simply don't know women. What they don't take financially they WILL take emotionally in some form.

It is ALWAYS a fair transaction. ALWAYS.

apresonly · 2024-02-28T00:11:23+00:00

what sexual bargaining power?

the ability to have orgasmless sex with a guy who will ghost you afterwards?

the ability to coerce a guy who is not interested in you at all into a loveless relationship bc he's so desperate for sex he will do anything?

these are not prizes.

UpbeatInsurance5358 · 2024-02-27T13:21:13+00:00

Women ONLY had sexual bargaining power. That's all there was for women. Now we don't need it as much, we can choose to live for ourselves.
It's astounding that men still aren't understanding this. Or that women aren't "giving" anything away - because we like to have sex!

TRTGymBro · 2024-02-27T13:32:52+00:00

Or maybe, just maybe, women only have as much power over men as men choose to give them.

GridReXX · 2024-02-27T13:20:17+00:00

This is what I mean when I say men treat sex like a reward more than women.

I think men are okay with sex being used like a carrot stick that she doles out like points as long as he can say she’s never had sex with anyone else?

Lots of the marriages back then were duty sex or non-consensual rape. But I think for them that’s okay?

Safinated · 2024-02-27T15:17:21+00:00

Men want sex more than relationships, so no

Women are right about that part

SyllabubSure5715 · 2024-02-27T16:52:20+00:00

I think the opposite. Men are the leaders. It’s men underestimating the damage they could do by shutting down casual sex.

januaryphilosopher · 2024-02-27T19:00:59+00:00

I think you're overestimating. It'd be rare and stupid to marry someone just for sex, what a wife has traditionally meant is having someone to care for your home and business, someone to have children with who will look after them too, not just sex which could always be gotten elsewhere. Times have changed somewhat in that regard because women have tried to change the shitty deal. It's not really tempting to hold something you want to do as some bargaining chip, that would be incredibly frustrating if there's no real reason to hold back. Sex isn't a gift to be given, it's an experience to enjoy together.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2024-02-27T20:13:46+00:00

Why would I risk spending months getting all emotionally invested in a guy only to discover that he sucks in bed? Cool, now I have commitment from a man who sucks in bed, that's not actually a thing that I want.

On the other hand if we have great sex from the get-go and he decides I'm not relationship material because of how fast it happened... then I had great sex and I dodged a relationship with a weird hypocrite.

If it's mid I just ghost and we both waste minimal time.

OR we fuck each other's brains out on a first date, keep at it, have an amazing time, fall in love and have a relationship that includes a great sex life because that's something we both valued enough to vet for.

Not everyone has a brain that's been totally turned to mush by reading too much gender wars crap online. Not everyone wants a partner who had to be manipulated into commitment. Not every woman is so whatever about sex that she's happy to ignore her own desires and use it strictly as a bargaining chip.

SlowEffective8146 · 2024-02-27T16:46:26+00:00

Women have no sexual power because they collectively decided that they'll beg for top men's dick for any crumb of their attention.

GhettoJamesBond · 2024-02-27T12:57:18+00:00

I always see the opposite where 4's think they're 9's

Whiskeymyers75 · 2024-02-27T18:05:38+00:00

Most women nowadays have no sexual bargaining power. As their standards increase, their value diminishes. In the old days, we didn't have an obesity epidemic, and we didn't have body positivity convincing overweight and obese women that they're high value. Why would I marry someone I wouldn't be attracted to for the long term?

Assholines · 2024-02-27T12:44:11+00:00

They tend to downplay it. They’re afraid to acknowledge their privileges

DarayRaven · 2024-02-27T13:03:45+00:00

If you mean power in the form of sexual selection

Then no, the reason why women are more prone to just casual sex is because they can take care of their financial needs

In the case of locking down a guy, social media has never made it easier for women to do that

boom-wham-slam · 2024-02-27T14:19:11+00:00

To some degree yes, if most women give it away for free then it hurts all women's sexual power in the marketplace, but it's just some cope delusion justification if a woman actually thinks that because many men don't want a ho (for this conversation a ho will be someone with a body count above 2 before you). So those women who aren't hos are in high demand but they are very rare.

Bordbir · 2024-02-27T19:34:49+00:00

No it’s just that using sex to get what you want is very depressing. I’d rather use my brain to get what I want and leave sex to be something I take part in when I marry the love of my life aka when I’m most comfortable. I’m too romantic to treat sex as a means to an end.

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John_Oakman · 2024-02-27T13:30:31+00:00

I think it's more of many women forgetting the power of leveraging social legitimacy, although the dismantling of more traditional forms of societies & communities isn't helping matters.

GlobeUnited · 2024-02-27T14:19:15+00:00

It's a complicated situation because of birth control and the fact that it takes much longer on average these days to reach full adulthood in the sense of financial independence. In the "old days", marriage was on the table at 18, 19, 20, so yeah, you could leverage the extreme horniness of guys at that age to get them locked into marriages as a condition for sex. They would also be done with education and ready to start a family.

So now we are both having sex at earlier ages because of birth control and being ready to start a family at older ages because of how our economies work, so there's a 10-15 period where people are sexually active but not ready to start a family. That then changed the culture around premarital sex, and now women don't really have that bargaining power because the culture's changed, and with it, the critical mass of women withholding sex until marriage.

SupposedlySapiens · 2024-02-27T15:09:01+00:00

There’s a reason some of us argue that things were better in the past. Women got their “liberation” and then most of them decided that it was a good idea to give away their most valuable asset for free. This is why so many “liberated” women can’t find any good men. Who do you think is going to commit to you when you’re giving yourself away all over town?

WilliamWyattD · 2024-02-27T16:18:08+00:00

There's also the fact that at the upper levels of the SMP, things invert somewhat. Top men have more leverage than even top women. And to SOME extent, women are looking up and adapting their behavior to what works there, not with Johnny average.

Legitimate_Type_1324 · 2024-02-27T16:32:16+00:00

No. It's just that they don't care.

They simply don't give sex the same urgent importance we men feel about it.

Women get touch starved and lonely, but they don't suffer at same level as men.

Don't take my word for it. Women marriage counselors that understand men know that, if wives want to destroy their husbands, they just need to withhold intimacy from them

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2024-02-27T16:40:20+00:00

In the old days they had no problem marrying the guy her father picked out because there were few alternatives.

EmbarrassedClient283 · 2024-02-27T18:02:05+00:00

I don't think this is an actual issue for women because eventually men are not able to get sex easily as when they were younger and all of their friends are getting married so there is pressure on them to get married as well.

I think women's problem is not being able to lock down a man they truly desire, but that is impossible because there simply is not enough of such men hitting all the right boxes.

Only some women get a man they truly attracted to and is stable enough to raise a family togather

KorinTowerFreeloader · 2024-03-01T08:24:34+00:00

Most women overestimate their sexual bargaining power. It gives them a chance to escorts and shit, but beyond getting fucked for favors/money, it blurs their judgment and usually leads to them sabotaging their chances at happiness in a real, pair-bonded relationship.

Title	Do most women underestimate their sexual bargaining power in modern times?
Author	harmonica2
Upvotes	1
Comments	167
Date	February 27, 2024 12:27 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1b1anmn/do_most_women_underestimate_their_sexual/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-most-women-underestimate-their-sexual.1246586 https://theredarchive.com/post/1246586

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