Most girls are conditioned to think that what's most important about them is how they look.

just_a_jane_doe · 2022-08-06T13:41:00+00:00

I mean, pretty girls are treated better by boys and later on men. To tell that is not true would be a lie.

_chYna_whYte_ · 2022-08-06T12:54:03+00:00

Physical attraction has always been a "virtue" for both men and women throughout history. From the evolutionary perspective its biologically rooted in the theory that attractive people have the best genetic dispositions for survival. Naturally people seek to capitalize off this idea in some sense, probably to a much greater degree than is actually scientifically true

pearllovespink · 2022-08-06T13:54:23+00:00

I was raised to focus on both the inside and outside. My parents went the extra mile to make sure I was well rounded. I got taught how to be presentable and properly dressed as well. I still to this day believe that both matter.

I have a beautiful friend but she’s super shallow, socially awkward, and can be a brat at times. Men still talk to her regardless. The ones that get to experience her personality always end up leaving eventually. That’s what made me realize men would put up with a lot of bullshit for a super hot girl. They’re comfortable being unhappy or with someone they aren’t compatible with strictly based off of looks. Definitely eye opening to watch from the side.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-08-06T16:44:54+00:00

Pretty girls are treated better. Personally, professionally, you name it. Pretty hard to deny.

But there's also a lot of joy in blacklight reactivate neon green eye shadow.

DanielleK95 · 2022-08-06T13:05:11+00:00

Growing up I'd never wear make up. It makes me just as insecure. Am I orange. Is it patchy, has my eyeshadow smudged. 😂😂 More unnecessary stress. Rather have a nap 😴

GlowingAsItDazzles · 2022-08-06T13:41:48+00:00

yeh, "conditioning"--it is the most important thing, its called reality

ruboyuri · 2022-08-06T14:44:03+00:00

We’re not “conditioned”. We are very conscious of it, and many of us don’t like it.

Just like men are pressured/incentivized to be strong and aggressive, and also don’t like it

decoy88 · 2022-08-06T15:05:27+00:00

I did a small poll on this very thing.

Most answers seem consistent with what I guessed.

Fortunately, the beauty industry took a step back and said “guys, the unrealistic beauty standards we set for women have been cruelly exploiting their insecurities for profit……. let’s do it to men too in the name of equality!”

Ohms2North · 2022-08-06T16:05:20+00:00

I was a nanny for a while in college. When complimented the little boy I nannied would be told "you're so strong" about 50% of the time, and "you're so handsome," the other 50% of the time. The girl I nannied would get told "you're so pretty" about 80% of the time, and "what a pretty dress" the rest of the time. People treat boys and girls very differently from a very young age.

decoy88 · 2022-08-06T13:53:13+00:00

Where is this alternative universe where looks for women do not matter?

ReferenceImpossible2 · 2022-08-06T13:15:20+00:00

Hard pill to swallow, but looks are simply the thing that the majority of men value the most in women.

A girl could be super saiyan mother Teresa on the inside, but if I don’t find her attractive, I probably won’t choose to associate with her more than I have to

emeraldjade9 · 2022-08-06T12:54:42+00:00

I don’t wear makeup and I often get told I look like a man

Perfect_Promise_943 · 2022-08-06T13:11:53+00:00

This is true. The question is “is it okay?”. I can happily say I don’t think it’s okay to make people insecure and feel bad about themselves. However, I do think it’s okay to play for our market. So as a straight man, I want a relationship right, so I will follow the trends of the market that show to get men a woman. And who controls the market of men, women. So women get to decide what is attractive or not and that is fine, does it suck sometimes since you need to change? 100%, but it is fair. If our goal is to sell our product(us, men) to our customers (women) we need to do everything we can to look like a good product to them.

Same goes for women. Women, if they want to be in a relationship, they need to strive to sell their product(them) to their market(men). Same thing, if you want to sell your product, you need to know what your market needs and desires in a product. In this case, it looks like man care a lot about looks. If that is the case, it sucks but it’s fair because just how men control the women market, women control the men market.

Now, you might get upset at men caring so much about looks. Totally fair, and you can try to change that. Few ways to try to change that, changing your own market. Perhaps if the market for men (women) become so stuck up as men are about physical beauty we will slowly realize that it sucks and start to change ourselves. Or change your market for men so that the only men desirable are the ones who don’t care about physical attributes, etc. there are ways of changing the market.

AstronautLoveShack · 2022-08-06T13:33:02+00:00

Yes to all of this. My parents were proud of our accomplishments at school and whatnot but still pushed lookism. Doesn’t help that I came from a family of pageant girls. I never was one but I was keenly aware of my older, prettier cousins.

SirTruffleberry · 2022-08-06T16:02:01+00:00

Insecurity in general is good for business. "Sex sells" is true because men consume a lot of sexualized content, and where men struggle sexually, there is a market (not only in cosmetics, but performance-enhancers, hair treatments, ways to meet women, etc.).

ashpr0ulx · 2022-08-06T13:52:30+00:00

i don’t think it’s considered most important, but there definitely is an emphasis on looks starting at a young age for girls.

i don’t wear makeup ever, and while there are a few niche men who really love that, the overwhelming majority of men i think find it plain and boring, or are more likely to look over a woman with zero glam.

throwaway164_3 · 2022-08-06T17:44:16+00:00

I wish someone would have told the same message to guys as well! Be tall and get ripped. I’d have hit the gym much earlier.

Human beings are shallow and good looking people have dating on easy mode.

2022-08-07T00:39:05+00:00

Yup, its a savage world out there. For the longest time before industrialized comfortable western society we were concerned with survival. Now those cave man traits show themselves in weird ways. Attraction and social proof have evolved into playing on what both sexes bring to the "tribe." ON AVERAGE (NOT ALL, NOT EVERYONE IN THE WORLD, NOT EVERY SINGLE PERSON ON REDDIT) BUT ON AVERAGE Men aren't as valuable if they don't bring resources to the table or if they aren't physically imposing enough to command respect. Womens youth and fertility are still what society values with them, this is why you have the makeup industry bringing in billions and playing on womens' insecurities.

catniagara · 2022-08-06T15:32:39+00:00

Not to downplay women struggles but generally insecurities are used to exploit people in general. Self improvement industry for men thrives on this actually. Not saying self improvement is bad thing but it's being exploited.

But I find it really cool how you folks are finding out that economics play huge role on women specific oppression

catniagara · 2022-08-06T16:39:48+00:00

Women select men as romantic partners. Men cast a broad net because the rejection rate is high for most men. There is nothing more ruthlessly hierarchical than the hierarchy women put men into at sexual selection so men have to compete fiercely to better themselves where they can and bear the burden of approach and rejection. Then women play victim because they don’t want to uphold any element of the bargain at their end. Attraction can’t be negotiated - we don’t tell women they should get with weak guys with no ambition or resources - stop complaining that men happen to be attracted to beautiful women because it’s pretty much our only ask.

catniagara · 2022-08-06T14:13:07+00:00

Its because the visual cortex encodes massive amounts of information into an integrated whole to which judgements can instantly be applied.

There is simply no mechanism that could compete with this in terms of it's valuation power. Visual cortex even has the prerogative to veto contradictory stimuli from entering consciousness.

Think about that!

If looks don't match what's being said for example periatal lobe can just cancel the sound. You literally don't hear the words even being spoken at all.

Ergo looks will always be the dominant engine of just about every judgement about people, places and things apart from maybe musically based

JumboJetz · 2022-08-06T15:45:08+00:00

If women want a good partner and to start a family some day and do normal people stuff - they do need to focus on their looks. Men do too. However a woman will date and marry a rich man who isn’t physically attractive. A man generally won’t. So women have less off setting attributes to make up for ugliness.

RocinanteCoffee · 2022-08-06T17:59:57+00:00

If there's one thing the pandemic taught me is that when I put on makeup I do it for myself, not anybody else. I didn't see people for months at a time, even in conference calls. And I was still playing with eyeshadow and sticky gems and eyeliner and eyeliner stamping.

Even if I was the last person on earth once I had enough dry goods to feed me for a few years and decent shelter I'd play with makeup on the canvas of my face all the goddamn time, lol.

Absolutely the media and popular culture pressures women to look a certain way and it sucks. I think you see some blowback to that too, as well as some magazines and online zines having more models with less makeup and a larger variety of body types.

Also this can be particular to culture and country. Photoshop the same image from digital artists in different countries and they'll each have a different idea of what is beautiful (though symmetry on the face seems to be a common theme except for things like freckles and beauty marks).

The thing that always cracks me up is dudes saying they prefer a woman who wears less makeup when the understated and "natural" looks actually tend to have way more product on than the dramatic or glam looks, aka a more understated makeup look usually has a lot more artifice and spackle involved than those artsy and severe darker looks.

A lot of women who stop wearing makeup suddenly get asked at work if they're not feeling well, there's definitely negative feedback to going completely natural especially if it's a new behavior from someone.

Cosmetics have been around since the first cave person added some berry juice to their lips and then painted with it on a wall. I doubt they're going anywhere. Best society can do is try to encourage self-expression in any form, not exclusively cosmetics, and try to remind people that they don't have to look "pretty" or "styled". They have just as much right to perform in a recital or represent their company bare-faced as with mascara.

Sudden_Difference500 · 2022-08-06T12:54:49+00:00

I always preferred the natural look on women.

Express-Fig-5168 · 2022-08-06T15:47:45+00:00

Most women in the world don't wear makeup.

RealAmericanWeasel · 2022-08-06T17:26:17+00:00

Eh. I don’t buy it. I have a hard time believing parents are always talking to female children about their appearance. If you’re talking about peer group, it doesn’t matter. Peers can stress one thing or another but if you decide to go along with it, that is also your decision.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2022-08-06T15:41:53+00:00

Society does value women for their looks. There are insane advantages in being a beautiful women.

Therefore it would be in women’s best interests to looksmax.

lady_ven0m · 2022-08-06T16:14:59+00:00

I’m prettier with makeup and I don’t feel like myself without it. I don’t think I’m ugly without it just more tired looking and more plain. It’s like wearing sweats vs a pretty/cute outfit.

ChudBuck · 2022-08-06T21:51:48+00:00

This is why women have it easier, they ONLY have their looks to worry about.

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2022-08-06T13:24:15+00:00

This is true. But the topic of everyday make-u is wild to me because I don't live in the west. You can wear make-up here if you want but no one is gonna be all up in arms about it because most people do it to dress up. Interesting, very interesting

sarkington · 2022-08-06T15:43:22+00:00

It’s not conditioning if it’s the truth

roastpork99 · 2022-08-06T16:25:44+00:00

Yes I'd agree with that. And look don't get me wrong, it's not like men don't also have pressure to look good; imo (and it's only my opinion) the prevailing attitude in society is that being attractive is extremely important for both men and women.

However women face far more pressure and judgement to look good and I think they are still told that looking good is the most important thing for them. I could be wrong, but I don't think I am on this one (to be slightly arrogant on this).

A good example is Daily Mail articles. This probably represents what the average and perhaps slightly older person thinks in the UK. With articles that are discussing the appearance of a woman what do you see in the comment section? Well you see that there's still a large amount of judgement levied towards women; how they dress, how they should dress, how they should do their makeup. It can be easy to forget if you're in liberal leaning spaces (because there's much less acceptance of unnecessarily harsh judgement towards women in them imo), but in real life the judgement is there for women, much more so than men.

HazyMemory7 · 2022-08-06T17:10:35+00:00

You phrased this like it isn't what's most important about them in the eyes of society. There's a reason men don't care about a woman's income or career anywhere near as much as women do for men.

This fact of life is why stay at home moms still exist despite the fact that women are in the work force and make up most of college students.

Swapsta · 2022-08-06T17:20:36+00:00

It's not conditioned merely reinforced similar to masculinity in men. Women may say they don't care about it(just as some men say they only value personality) but everyone knows the truth

ImproWedge · 2022-08-06T17:30:23+00:00

It starts out with comments on body weight and style choices in primary school, I think it’s true

NotARussianBot1984 · 2022-08-06T18:05:59+00:00

No, they don't feel the need to wear make up. Why? Because in a obesity crisis, looks = thin, and they don't feel the need to go to the gym, so it 100% doesn't apply to the BS make up they use that guys say often "don't use make up".

-signed a guy that goes to the gym and dating a girl that doesn't wear make up 98% of the time.

SUBLlMlTY · 2022-08-06T18:23:48+00:00

maybe, but maybe good looking girls also sense a sort of power in their looks without feeling "conditioned" or "forced" into playing into them. everyone loves to feel special and privileged. it's when they start getting treated like "normal" people that no one gives a shit about, that they start to notice and complain about the disparity of how attractive groups of people are treated vs dried out people.

i don't think i've ever once been told that my greatest and only value is my prettiness (not that i'd ever take such a stupid statement seriously anyways) or was demanded to be pretty. i always just knew i was pretty and i used it to my advantage. but i also very well know that my other assets are much more important. :D

i understand that some people may have had different experiences, and maybe outer forces have directly said, or subliminally hinted that looks are the most important thing about them (and yes i have gotten those 'hints' lol, hard to miss), but idk why anyone would actually internalize something like that. whether a parent said it, a model scout, an ex lover, i think the notion is weird. people that internalize and believe things like that shouldn't see a problem with others believing it either in my opinion, otherwise you are a hypocrite. i also don't see why being born with attractive genetics automatically renders someone a victim. lol. in fact it can be a useful asset.

superficial and gross aside, there seems to be some capital in looks soo..if people are that simple and easy to explot, ima do it while i can. and yes, losing the pretty privilege is gonna suck, but it's even more sad for those who never got the advantage in the first place. my heart goes out to all the uglies. :'c

mumblebumblegrumble · 2022-08-06T18:25:31+00:00

It's not just makeup though. In a lot of countries where women don't necessarily wear a lot of make up women will use skin bleaching cream to try and meet the beauty standard of lighter skin.

SnowHatesWome · 2022-08-06T18:27:37+00:00

What else would be more important?

rotxtoxcore · 2022-08-06T18:44:08+00:00

Well no shit.

lemoncurdmacaron · 2022-08-06T18:54:38+00:00

If men weren’t so shallow we wouldn’t.

ohheyhi99 · 2022-08-06T19:35:42+00:00

Another way to put it is that men are fooled into thinking that the way they look isn’t the most important thing about them to most people. Women are beaten over the head with this more frequently.

There’s more awareness of this on both sides in younger generations.

JoeRMD77 · 2022-08-06T20:11:22+00:00

That's what women need to focus on if they want to attract men. What's hard to understand about that?

2022-08-06T21:22:53+00:00

Women's insecurities are actually good for business, unfortunately.

Who is doing the marketing predominantly?

Smooth-Erect · 2022-08-06T22:25:28+00:00

Honestly I think it’s something they come to understand as they get older. Seeing how looks are major attraction triggers for men when looking for a partner

mandoa_sky · 2022-08-07T00:59:52+00:00

i know from personal experience i get treated differently by people when i wear makeup vs not wearing makeup.

edjohn88 · 2022-08-07T01:53:45+00:00

Women are raised to prioritize what makes them most attractive to men? Sounds like natural selection. Who knew

tommysamson · 2022-08-07T02:12:26+00:00

there is no conditioning here, you cant change and force men to want ugly fat of old women

SwaySh0t · 2022-08-07T02:52:37+00:00

I think some of this is actually rooted in biology. Women unconsciously know that they needed good looks to ensure resources and protective provisioning from the highest caliber guyy in the tribe they could get, it all comes back to survival.

ragman75 · 2022-08-07T03:17:33+00:00

i think more then anything its just ease. If you are an avg girl its much harder to develop yourself into that 1% of people that has a magnetic personality then it is to reach that top 40% of attractiveness.

Willow-girl · 2022-08-07T11:50:04+00:00

My miserable, shallow mother tried to drill this into me, ahh but there in the wings was my fat, creative, joy-filled grandmother.

Thank ghod I saw there was another option, otherwise I might be a quite different person than I am today.

ThanosSnapsSlimJims · 2022-08-08T17:08:56+00:00

I think this is fair. I think a lot of it likely stems from marketing campaigns and generations falling for them and passing down what they think is accurate.

Title	Most girls are conditioned to think that what's most important about them is how they look.
Author	Jax_Gatsby
Upvotes	96
Comments	206
Date	August 6, 2022 12:49 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/whnl27/most_girls_are_conditioned_to_think_that_whats/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/most-girls-are-conditioned-to-think-that-whats.1126791 https://theredarchive.com/post/1126791

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