Women focus on careers because a career is a good investment, a man generally isn't

fakehalo · 2023-01-03T02:54:42+00:00

Could sum all this up as: "having to depend on your partner for your livelihood is a terrible position to be in, a position where you objectively have less control in the relationship and to some degree your own life."

Weird to see so many people acting like they can't understand this, I'm a guy and that's exactly how I feel... So it's pretty damn relatable.

jamjars666 · 2023-01-03T03:56:38+00:00

It is so very strange to me that this isn’t remarkably obvious to everyone

slazengerx · 2023-01-03T03:03:57+00:00

I thank my personal god that I got a vasectomy at 33 and never had kids but if I had a daughter my advice to her would be (1) don't have kids, (2) become as proficient as possible at your career, and (3) don't rely on a man for anything. You want to have relationships, sex, etc? Knock yourself out. But don't put yourself in a position where you become reliant on a man or any other human for that matter. They're inherently unreliable - both men and women. The Hollywood Industrial Complex makes movies about romance. These are not documentaries.

YveisGrey · 2023-01-03T23:34:46+00:00

I agree it’s funny to me when I hear RP dudes chastise women over this. Think of the Kevin Samuels types going on and on about how women need to spend their “prime years” attracting “high value men” because they won’t be able to when they are older. Um if I can’t attract hvm in old age why the hell would I bank on him now? May as well spend my youth working on my career which is much more secure. Investing in education and career is always better than investing in a man. Also these men act like people really marry outside their class at high rates in reality the best bet a woman has of marrying a professional man with a good salary is being one herself. Literally most educated professional men are married to educated professional women.

Physical-Pie748 · 2023-01-02T21:51:46+00:00

"- A job can't just fire you and hire someone half your age because they feel like it."

of course the company can....they can throw you away anytime they want. they treat their workers like trash. they dont care about you. lol if you think otherwise.

ThorLives · 2023-01-02T21:37:21+00:00

Just jumping in to knock down one of the points that's been repeatedly debunked in this subreddit:

If you get sick, you will get paid time off work, sometimes for years if you need it, a lot of companies also offer private medical insurance, Men are 7x more likely to abandon a sick wife than a wife is a sick husband.

That's not actually true, and follow-up studies which looked at the same thing have shown that it's not true.

September 2015 study:

In this study we use a sample of 2,701 marriages from the Health and Retirement Study... We focus on the onset of four major life-threatening illnesses: cancer, heart problems, lung disease, and stroke, and which together comprise a substantial portion of chronic disease burden in the United States... Our finding that cancer onset was not associated with divorce is in contrast to prior clinical studies which found elevated divorce risks for reproductive cancers... Neither husband’s nor wife’s cancer or lung disease onset is associated with subsequent divorce... Wife’s heart problems onset (but not husband’s) is positively associated with a two percent higher probability of subsequent divorce compared with staying married... https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4857885/

They looked at four different major illnesses and only found a tiny 2% increase in divorce in the case of one of the illnesses. It's insignificant.

BluePearl2020 · 2023-01-02T23:57:58+00:00

gopher_glitz · 2023-01-03T00:01:56+00:00

Women aren't a good investment and neither are children.

alchemist10000 · 2023-01-03T02:15:25+00:00

The irony being when I told my therapist I preferred to invest in my career over relationships because women (and relationships) have a low ROI compared to career, she asked me to invest more in relationships as some women (and relationships) turn out great for your life.

jay10033 · 2023-01-02T20:15:09+00:00

- Contrary to the popular belief that women 'divorce men and take all their shit', Divorced women are some of the poorest women in society. at least if a woman invests a lot of time and effort into a career, she can be sure she has a decent pension built up to support her through her retirement.

This is by retirement but it doesn't say anything much of anything. Compare this to single women vs single men. If the statistics are comparable, you are essentially saying that men outearn women throughout their lives. We do not know the decisions that are made post-divorce. What you are implicitly saying is married couples should earn the same on a pro-rata basis after they divorce by virtue of their being married.

- Being older/More experienced in a job is generally considered a good thing (assuming you don't lack any 'modern' skills. Many men view women as 'depreciating assets' as they get older

Statistically, women file for divorce at much greater rates than men. So this myth of the husband leaving the old tired wife for a younger woman and the rate at which it occurs is quite overblown.

- After you develop skills and experience, it's fairly easy to get another job.

This is a very industry-specific claim and in a world of technological change, quite a remarkable claim, but one is free to make it.

- A job can't just fire you and hire someone half your age because they feel like it.

This is certainly not true, as anyone who works in an "at-will" employment environment knows. So long as such a reason is not explicitly mentioned as the reason, you can be fired because your shirt was green one day.

- If a job does want to let you go, they have to pay you 'redundancy' money (which can be a huge amount) Vs men who can waste your time in a 'forever girlfriend' situation for years, then just break it off.

Depends on industry. Severance depends on longetivity (maybe). A "huge" amount of money is in the eye of the beholder. And most importantly, you seemed to have moved the goalposts from marriage to being a girlfriend midstream.

- If managers/coworkers treat you badly, you can sue them for damages. If a man treats you badly, you're left with trauma and a therapy bill.

I'm confused - what do you view a divorce settlement as, if not damages? Do you view your husband as your manager? Interesting way to view a household.

- If I do choose a man who ends up (maybe after months or years) treating me badly, I'll get blamed for 'choosing a bad man', if I choose a job where I get treated badly, I won't get blamed for 'choosing a bad job'.

You have the same autonomy to leave a bad man as you do to leave a bad job after the same duration. The difference, a man can get you pregnant after you've found he's bad, a job can't. You also don't blame your next job for your last job's actions - this is something a number of women have not yet learned to do in interpersonal relationships.

- If you get sick, you will get paid time off work, sometimes for years if you need it, a lot of companies also offer private medical insurance, Men are 7x more likely to abandon a sick wife than a wife is a sick husband.

Law of small numbers? What do you mean by sick? Do you mean men are dumping their wives left and right when they get the flu? How about when they get a stomach ache? Covid? The study you used had such a small sample, it's laughable.

Around 20% of men cheat in marriage (more often than women), Men are dirtier than women, Men rarely pull their weight with housework and childcare when the woman is working, even if he himself isn't working.

Men do not cheat more often than women. Women do not admit to cheating due to wanting to be viewed as "good" in society. Men and women cheat on one another at roughly equal rates. I'd venture to say women cheat more based on increased opportunities.

howdoiw0rkthisthing · 2023-01-02T20:40:34+00:00

I totally agree and was raised to support myself and be responsible for my own success and well-being precisely because elder women in my family were screwed over by men they relied on.

HOWEVER Im pretty sure that the study showing men were more likely to leave their sick wives was retracted and ~~refused~~ revised to show only a significant different for heart disease.

Adultthrowaway69420 · 2023-01-03T02:56:09+00:00

The fact that you reduce men down to nothing more than a paycheck is telling.

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2023-01-03T03:08:13+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Worried-Smile · 2023-01-02T20:28:00+00:00

You can do both, you know.

HungerISanEmotion · 2023-01-03T10:45:50+00:00

I have no problem with women which actually focus on their career, it is a better investment then focusing on a man, which can decide to "upgrade".

What I am having problem with is women which do not focus on a career, on family, on a man... but on their fun. And then they expect a finished career man which has been focused on everything they weren't waiting for them with a finished nest.

MegaGigaTeraBased · 2023-01-03T04:43:13+00:00

Women say this and still don't have good careers lmfao

SwimmingTheme3736 · 2023-01-03T14:56:27+00:00

There is nothing to stop women having a man and a job they love.

As a man wouldn’t you rather a woman that doesn’t need to have everything paid for her?

SoldierExcelsior · 2023-01-05T02:42:24+00:00

Well these are basically WGTOW men arent even thinking about them.The issue is when they do that then complain that there's no good men or expect men to want them and all their cats at 45.

I'm never going to marry a western woman I will go to Afghanistan or Somalia first...so I don't care what or why western women do what they do,they can go live their life.

But plenty of women are on social media crying about not being able to get a man calling Kevin Samuels at 45 and 220lbs.

If all the women decided to go be boss chick's single cat moms men wouldn't be complaining what men are complaining about is the mass attack on men by dillusional women...No one cares if Oprah is Single or Rosie O'Donnell or Jada Pinket but when they sht on men all day on public platforms and men speak out women have a problem.

If you want to be a boss chick and focus on your career go lol no one will stop you or care but don't get online crying asking where are all the good men when your eggs are dried up and you got cat fur all over the couch and your test tube baby stressing you out as a single mom.

md8716 · 2023-01-03T00:57:09+00:00

An investment has to be tied to an outcome or a goal. Investing just to invest is an exercise in stupidity.

If your desired outcome is perpetual hedonism (which it usually is), then yes chasing career is a better investment.

If your desired outcome is to be a wife and mother with an intact marriage and family, a career may, and often does, frustrate progress toward that end. Sometimes it works out, though.

wtffellification · 2023-01-03T07:54:39+00:00

You sound like the female version of a guy who goes on a first date, doesn't get laid and then curses all women.

"I iNveSTeD a whole car ride, an expensive dinner and 3 goddamn hours for that bitch not even to be able to give me the only thing she's worth for... Don't do it men, it's not worth it!"

Maybe, just maybe, contemplate on your priorities in life a bit, will you?

HazyMemory7 · 2023-01-02T19:20:09+00:00

Investment? What investmentt? Girls wait at the finish line for men.

Robotemist · 2023-01-03T00:50:11+00:00

I'm not going to lie the argument you presented is dumb as fuck. The point you're trying to make may have some validity but you're presented like an idiot.

Men absolutely can be a good investment but just like any other investment, there are good bets and bad bets.

The problem with women is they're interested in investing in penny stocks than US treasuries.

jsmooth3363 · 2023-01-03T00:42:16+00:00

This is a very long explanation & it demonstrates that you may not know how to love a man or see his value.

pm_me_hairy_nudes · 2023-01-03T08:57:35+00:00

Sure OP I agree that trad relationships are extremely risky for the women involved. But if you keep your career, manage risk properly, and avoid unnecessary self sacrifice, you will probably be fine. Women need to be cautious and realistic but I don't think we need to go full doomer at least in western countries.

If you are a woman, always put your career first, and don't ever sacrifice more time or energy when you're unsure if the guy would do the same. Get a backup home to move back into, just in case. If you want kids, get it in writing what happens financially what happens if you split. Letting kids disproportionately affect your career and lifestyle more so than your partner's is a trap so many women fall into.

Barely-moral · 2023-01-02T20:46:08+00:00

To make a long story short. You think that because you know how to invest in a career (or at least as you think you know how to invest in a career) while you have no idea how to invest in a man.

If you had a different set of tools in your brain, you would think differently.

If you know a basic of how to meet, vet, attract keep and "control" a man that option is way less risky than trusting in the job marketplace. Remember, most people on earth work shit jobs for shit wages and have no option or say about it.

Affectionate_Pen_623 · 2023-01-02T20:43:05+00:00

Despite being pretty misogynistic, I would NEVER want my daughter spending more time investing in men than an education or career.

However, what I think is actually kinda not discussed is how careers are often used an excuse by many women for being obnoxious and masculine. My mother is 60+ and still works looking after disabled kids and my sister is a doctor. Both were married and have been with the same men for years. It didn't seem to hinder their ability, especially in my sisters case, to build successful/long lasting careers. Especially now. There really is no excuse. And it's the same for my girlfriends friends. She knows nurses, headhunters, accountants...none of them seemed to have this magical "career" that stopped from finding men. Funnily enough, the two friends I didn't like also have careers and are single. But both are judgemental and obnoxious as fuck....which seems like a greater barrier for settling down than a fucking 9 to 5 could ever be.

If you have a child via adoption or sperm donation, after years working a good job, you will have more than enough to go part time and support that child. Paid maternity is leave is guaranteed in my country, and you can take more time off if you're willing to accept a pay cut. Most employers are fine with working from home now too. Whereas a substantial number of men don't pay child support at all, many only pay after a lengthy legal battle and the internet is full of men discussing legal and illegal ways to get out of paying.

Now you see this here is amusing. It's why I consider career womyn (tm) like their nice guys (tm) counterparts. When you get down to it. Both groups are just fucking idiots. I'm in Europe, the UK to be specific. Statutory maternity pay in the UK is barely six months. My brother, who has a kid, tells me that childcare for his 5 year old works out to about 10k a year. The stats show that childcare for a kid under two comes up to nearly 65% of one's wages. How on earth would you be able to afford that on your own?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/money/2022/oct/07/nursery-under-twos-costs-parents-england-65-percent-wage

Having a kid on your own is pretty much fucking yourself over and every remotely intelligent woman with an education wouldn't dare touch this option with a four foot pole. I notice the women peddling this idea are often working/lower middle class often working in garbage clerical/admin/HR roles who are too stupid to have realised that the horseshit sold to them by middle class feminists is just that, horseshit. And often not practiced by the middle class, highly connected white women who preach about it. Bit like the broke incrls listening to Tate forgetting he's a former champion kickboxer and pimp with mafia ties. His perspective on life might just be a little different.

In truth marriage, education and profession are critical pieces in the puzzle which is socioeconomic progression. Forgoing any is only doing yourself a disservice.

meddit-throwaway · 2023-01-03T01:28:21+00:00

Where are you finding these "career driven" women? From what I've seen most women don't care as much about their careers as men do, because they can just marry a rich man who will provide for them. If not her husband, the men in her family such as her father will provide for her, because it's much more socially acceptable for a woman to ask for financial support than a man. A man would just be told to get a job.

This again shows how privileged women are in the west. They don't really have to work hard for anything (though some do still pursue careers out of passion). Women are also more likely to study subjects that don't make as much money, such as art and literature, as their financial needs are already met.

M_LaSalle · 2023-01-03T10:08:23+00:00

Women, like many investors, do not understand what they invest in or how to judge its value. The fact that a large number of investors invest in something does mean it has value or that its value will go up. If that were true, then the people who invested in those Dutch tulips would have all died rich.

If you make a husband the centre of your world and your whole purpose and reason for getting up in the morning, what are you going to do if it doesn't work out or if he does something to destroy the marriage? You'd be heartbroken, lost, devastated, confused. You might not have the will to keep going after that.

We cannot bind the future, but a woman who wants a good man (And most women do, whether they admit it or not) would be well advised to look for one while she is at the peak of her SMV. Later her options will narrow and her office cubicle job adds less to her SMV than she supposes.

If you leave a job after many years, you've probably got money saved up, a nice house furnished with nice things, money to spend on hobbies, travel and your kids.

OP hasn't spent much time in the real world American job market. This sort of career trajectory is available to some, but the number is smaller than OP thinks and it's getting smaller all the time. People who invest in careers in America can work awfully hard for a very long time and have remarkably little to show for it.

dbz_111 · 2023-01-03T04:37:32+00:00

Having a career is fine. But a woman who doesn’t have an innate biological desire to look after her home and kids, whether or not she also has a career, is functionally broken.

revente · 2023-01-03T10:01:44+00:00

Practically it doesn't make sense to risk everything and be a housewife

Women on this subreddit keep making this claim. But do men even actually want a housewife?

I've only have one friend who wanted one, and she found a girl who absolutely wanted to be a housewife.

But i suspect that there're much more women who want to be a SAHM that men who want them. Because lets face it - it's fucking easier that having to work.

And as a man the mere idea of a housewife seems fucking lame.

If your partner earns enough to let you not to work then do something more meaningful with your life than fucking house chores.

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Preme2 · 2023-01-02T21:14:52+00:00

I think women are better off in that sweet spot. They have enough education and career to be self sufficient, but don’t outcompete men to the point where they dislike all their options.

Some women may want to be highly educated for example then say there aren’t enough “economically viable” men. In other words, there aren’t men to be hypergameous with.

There are women are who fine with being more educated and earning more and there are those women (the majority) who will file for divorce if she out earns her partner. She’ll start to resent her partner because there has to be a better “deal” out there.

For women who are multi millionaires there is no alternative. The 0.0001% dating the 0.001%. For average and above average women they believe there is always a better option.

Lastly: I believe something similar. Women who you don’t meet organically is a waste of time. Focus on yourself, invest, travel. Swiping on dating apps and paying for women’s meals is not a good use of your time and money. If you meet her organically let’s say in college then that might be worth. Chasing women isn’t worth. At least not in your 20’s.

Familiar_Egg8802 · 2023-01-03T02:16:50+00:00

The most important aspect of existence is reproducing and raising successful children. A quality provider is a good investment in this regard for multiple reasons.

A mans purpose is to provide for his wife/kids. Beta bucks is the best societal model regardless of what anyone says.

Relevant-Story-3005 · 2023-01-03T03:18:13+00:00

This post is just a non-sequitur to well any rational thought process in regards to sociology whatsoever...

KamuiObito · 2023-01-03T03:34:57+00:00

https://youtu.be/nt9gOdcLzm0

fruitycoolwhip · 2023-01-03T04:00:25+00:00

I don’t think relationships should be framed as “investments” anyways. It should be someone you love and respect. But that concept seems lost in the west and i wonder if it was ever a widely accepted concept in the first place. Certainly not in my lifetime

8m3gm60 · 2023-01-03T12:55:32+00:00

because women focus on career rather than seeking out a man for marriage/children and being a housewife to take care of them all like the good 'ol days.

That's just silly. The view is that women who actually want to have kids are so pressured socially to have a career that they focus on that, miss their chance and then spend the rest of their lives guzzling wine "warning" younger women about men.

Men rarely pull their weight with housework and childcare when the woman is working, even if he himself isn't working.

This goofy, pop-science crap never holds up. That's probably the one where they admitted that yardwork and home/auto maintenance was male dominated, but didn't count it as housework. It's just horseshit pseudoscience painting whatever picture will get people worked up.

Legaladesgensheu · 2023-01-03T16:26:47+00:00

I agree and I think that is true for men too. Our current society doesn't really create an incentive structure to focus on creating a family. Instead, it incentives both genders to focus on careers. If that is a good thing is up for debate though.

RealAmericanWeasel · 2023-01-03T17:37:03+00:00

How is it a good investment? Your employer doesn’t care about you. If you are self-employed- and want any degree of success - you will have no life. Also depends on the skills. A lot of skills expire into obsolescence. Sure, some people have a great job or whatever but the odds are against it and that probably won’t be you.

FlyV89 · 2023-01-03T21:51:06+00:00

Dude here, I second.

Your career can't dump you I mean, even if it's warranted and you screwed up.

Neither it can cheat on you.

Downside is if you want to have kids and a family, other than that I've met some women who are "married" with their careers and seem to be doing fine.

They are not the neurotypical women thou, for example one of them is my ex, 34 years old, bisexual and is in an open relationship with a dude who's a dormat. Awesome, very smart and good looking gal, also very chill and kind hearted girl, but she's about to get dumped by the dude because he wants kids and she doesn't, and has other underlying issues that I'm not going to mention but are common in this type of girls.

They are great for dating around thou, I love career women, they don't bug you all the time and they go long stretches without falling you or bothering you for whatever stupid shit that comes out, they often call you for sex, they own their places and pay for their stuff.

Plus lots of them are these "NSA-Open-Casual relationships" which fits me really well, I couldn't date a woman seriously ever again.

Still, for what I've seen around they will be screwed up in a decade, but they do really well by now.

So like I said, if you don't want kids and a family dedicating to your career as a woman is the best thing you could ever do.

You can travel around, met new people and since sex is easy to get as a woman you will have lots of potential suitors during most of your fertile life unless you really mess up with your looks.

ScottishSam · 2023-01-03T22:11:51+00:00

Good luck with that! None of this is correct... but you seem to believe it... so that's all I can say.

AntiSaudiAktion · 2023-01-04T18:14:38+00:00

I come from a traditional family and they don't understand why I'm absolutely revolted at the idea of marriage when I've grown up seeing the women who raised me be treated as slaves. Thankfully we don't need to depend anymore, so I don't know why you would. The trade-off just isnt worth it anymore because women get so much less out of marriage than they put in.

sadbitch55 · 2023-01-12T00:23:46+00:00

The Bible says it all: Put not your trust in princes, in a son of man, in whom there is no salvation (Psalm 146:3)

Title	Women focus on careers because a career is a good investment, a man generally isn't
Author	DiamondLilyD
Upvotes	168
Comments	303
Date	January 2, 2023 6:16 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/101jeyo/women_focus_on_careers_because_a_career_is_a_good/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/women-focus-on-careers-because-a-career-is-a-good.1147406 https://theredarchive.com/post/1147406

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