CMV: Males should stop dropping out of the dating market

Ego73 · 2024-12-17T01:06:20+00:00

Oh, so now it's men who owe women a relationship? I'm 95% confident this is bait, but in case it's not, the incels were right. If the gender roles were flipped, society would say men are responsible for women not finding a boyfriend.

IceWingAngel · 2024-12-17T01:15:57+00:00

The men dropping out do so because they already went un-noticed or felt under appreciated. Essentially changing absolutely nothing on the grander scale.

DolphinPunkCyber · 2024-12-17T01:27:15+00:00

Back when a lot of men were single, nobody was asking women to do anything about it.

Because even the thought of suggesting to women how to behave is outrageous.

Now that a lot of women are single...

Men have to fix it? Otherwise they are cowards?

If those women want a boyfriend, they should start working out and approach men 😐

Hot-Law2682 · 2024-12-17T01:18:55+00:00

Most of the women in that twitter thread "commiserating on how common it is to go without boyfriends" mention that they constantly get approached by men and turn them all down.

So its not like these women are being ignored, they just don't like what is being offered.

Ironically, it is gen z women who are actually saying "the juice is not worth the squeeze".

Tywinlol2 · 2024-12-17T02:09:42+00:00

Well she can always hike to near by forest and hook up with the bear. What happened with 4b and I need no man? How about you start positively contributing to men's lives instead of just taking from us. At this point it is better to be alone with majority of you.

EbbAltruistic1760 · 2024-12-17T01:04:39+00:00

Juice < Squeeze.

DreadGrunt · 2024-12-17T03:42:17+00:00

Males need to step up like previous generations before them.

Why would they? Women are nothing like their previous generations, so a lot of dudes feel no reason to do so either. Ladies can't have it both ways, if you want the clock turned back then that has to work both ways.

Emergency_Title1521 · 2024-12-17T05:22:53+00:00

Uh no, men dropping out would have no effect on women’s dating experience whatsoever because the vast majority of men are never wanted by women anyway, and Chads have no incentive to drop out because they’re already successful in dating. It would only save women trouble now that they don’t have to sift though unattractive men to get to Chads.

NJFlowerchild · 2024-12-17T02:08:40+00:00

Men don't owe women relationships. They don't owe them "wooing" or "competing" with other men. I can assure you that plenty of men are still trying to get desirable women. These women are the common denomination if they can't get "decent men". They're not worth the effort.

a_minty_fart · 2024-12-17T03:41:40+00:00

We do not care if you think it is "cowardly".

Until Western women can give men an incentive to date them, we will act in our own best interests.

shockingly_bored · 2024-12-17T01:18:27+00:00

Yes because she's going to notice or care about men she would never want to look at, let alone talk to or date dropping out. Jesus christ this is obvious, the men women want aren't the ones dropping out, it's the ones they don't want who are. This is a win for women! Why the fucking complaining?!

OmoshiroiKudamono · 2024-12-17T07:39:39+00:00

They got what you asked for. Why be sad.

It's not like those males were wanted anyway (intimately). Rename this to the wallets are dropping out.

MisterFunnyShoes · 2024-12-17T01:06:29+00:00

There’s nothing in this post attempting to appeal to men.

AcidicRainiac · 2024-12-17T01:11:22+00:00

30% of the comments on that post are some variation of men are pathetic losers.

The people dropping out aren't getting any attention. Are you essentially arguing men shouldn't drop out for the greater good? How does them dropping out effect anything? Why should they even care about some greater good?

NotUsedUsernameYet · 2024-12-17T01:20:49+00:00

Because women will prefer to be single rather than be with man they are not attracted to. They also will be happier alone rather than with average man.

Fair-Bus-4017 · 2024-12-17T07:49:23+00:00

You know how you can instantly get these men back in the market if you would ask them out. It's literally that easy.

tacticaltossaway · 2024-12-17T01:05:07+00:00

I don't see a single reason why.

FrodoCraggins · 2024-12-17T01:17:03+00:00

Surprisingly, men don't want to be friends or more than friends with people who think them choosing to be around people they like is 'cowardly behavior'.

If women want modern equality brought about by feminism achieving its goals, they should be just as willing as men to "to woo, to approach, to make a move, to plan dates, to impress, etc". If they'd rather have regressive sexism where it's entirely on the men and nobody else to do those things then they can also go international and seek out men from those sorts of regressive societies and complain about never being able to leave the house without getting hit on by every man in sight.

Hi-Road · 2024-12-17T01:41:00+00:00

>My thinking is: if less guys are in the dating pool, there are less options for women. Less options mean less competition among males. Less competition means males put in less effort to woo, to approach, to make a move, to plan dates, to impress, etc. it's a race to the bottom and that's bad for society.

Seems like market correction. We're swinging the other way from a long history of women getting shit on in relationships. But younger men now are just seeing "Holdup. I'm expected to do a lot for little. That doesn't seem fair."

It is what it is. Honestly I think relationships should be a lot less common. Maybe seen as something special instead of a hobby. That way people can put in effort, value each other, and stop treating each other like trash

Only-Plate590 · 2024-12-17T07:19:50+00:00

Males need to step up like previous generations before them.

An individual male needs to do whatever feels right to him. No obligation on him beyond that. No obligation on males as a group.

Dating is a market just like a commercial market - you need customers who are interested in your product. In the dating market the product is you.

If a company can't find customers for their product you wouldn't say this is so unfair customers need to step and buy the product. So why is the dating market any different?

If women feel they have a smaller pool of "customers" they need to step up and appeal to potential customers.

Like all markets the dating market is competitive.

Muggo_Sluggo · 2024-12-17T01:40:13+00:00

That "putting in effort" thing sounds like it makes sense, but I'm not entirely convinced it makes much difference in reality. I think most men that aren't having any success have already gone through variations on this process (and there will still always be something you need to fix). In my experience it doesn't seem to change anything. I'd guess a fair number of men share this experience.

Meanwhile, I do hear women complaining about how the "bar is on the floor." I'm not sure the effort put in by men that aren't competitive really inspires desirable men to "be better" in any capacity. I suppose if the guys that did put in effort had any notable success it might, but I don't think that's the reality of "self improvement" in this context (outside of extreme changes like losing 200 lbs or winning the lottery). You just become a better version of something nobody really wanted in the first place.

The funny thing is, it's not necessary. There's hardly a shortage of desperate men on apps. For as repulsive as women find them (maybe I should say "us"), they'd likely be easily moldable into whatever you want.

But that just goes back to the same point. Even if he becomes the "perfect boyfriend," it still won't make him attractive. I think this is called "nice guy theory."

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-12-17T07:01:11+00:00

Nope.

No one is entitled to sex or relationships

People should date who they want.

caption291 · 2024-12-17T04:44:34+00:00

it's a race to the bottom and that's bad for society

The last 200 years have seen men treat women better and better and women treat men worse and worse.

I agree that men responding to that by stopping turns things into a race to the bottom and that that's bad for society...but men have shown multiple times that they are willing to compromise to avoid a race to the bottom scenario, it's women that have refused to make any real compromise on anything.

Instead of complaining that men aren't willing to step up anymore, you should complain that women never did.

wtknight · 2024-12-17T01:54:54+00:00

Men are dropping out due to women's expectations rising and due to increased competition from high value men due to women's more "liberated" sexual behavior. A lot of women have never had boyfriends. Very few women have never had sexual partners, as many of these average women have been in casual sexual partnerships, situationships, and FWB scenarios with men who are either grossly or somewhat out of their league. Average men in these women's attractiveness ranges can't compete with these average women's subsequent expectations, so they have no choice but to drop out.

If women started looking for traditional relationships from the beginning and stopped having first- to third-date sex with men and started to wait to have sex with men until receiving actual emotional commitments from men, this would not be a problem.

Kanenas_T_Potas · 2024-12-17T03:16:49+00:00

Bearing in mind that this is a CMV post, I'll try to address your arguments (Feel free to comment if I misunderstood some of them):

Less men means less competition and less willingness to pursue women actively.

Although this is basically a tautology, the issue is wether or not these men were eligible to get someone in the first place. If the men opting out of dating are men who are already not being selected by anyone and who rarely make a move in the first place... the actual dating pool of eligible men is not really decreasing and the men who are willing to make a move and compete in the first place is not really being affected.

Some men are opting to date abroad.

This argument could actually serve to refute your point. If these men are opting out of a particular dating pool and going elsewhere to compete with a different set of men, those men could actually be benefiting society by competing elsewhere and making a move in a different context. This might boost their confidence, get them validated, get them experience and also stimulate a more diverse gene pool, which in the long run is a net positive, both for "male competition" and for human genetics.

Men opting out of dating is a symptom of a bigger problem

If men no longer think that competing for women is better than doing so, it says more about the dating market than about the men who opt out of it. If you have a restaurant and no one wants to eat there, it's probably because the restaurant is trash and not because the customers are boycotting it. If the marginal effort to get a date is becoming increasingly harder, and the returns on that effort are increasingly low, opting out of dating starts to become an appealing alternative. To put it simply, if dating is a free market, were everyone is free to invest their effort to get a date, the market must be appealing to the investors i.e to the people who wish to date. If the effort they invest yields little or non-satisfactory results, people will either not put in the effort or go elsewhere to maximize the results of their efforts.

yeti_button · 2024-12-17T03:24:55+00:00

r/WomenAndMales

BeepBeepYeah7789 · 2024-12-17T12:55:28+00:00

For many of us, "dropping out" is about risk assessment and self-preservation.

But it sounds as if you can't be bothered to consider that.

Wooshie_Pop · 2024-12-17T01:19:54+00:00

You’re saying men need to step up yet most woman have several men actively pursuing them. While woman are complaining of how thirsty men are because of their constant pursuit. Their dms are full to the brim.

What they mean is the top percent of men they find attractive aren’t pursuing long term relationships with them.

MyLastBestChance · 2024-12-17T01:08:54+00:00

Nope. I absolutely disagree.

Men who want to drop out absolutely should. Maybe they’ll come back maybe they won’t but that should definitely depend on what they want for their life and future.

Passport bros should go and give it their best try. Maybe they’ll find true love or whatever facsimile makes them happy.

People, men and women put genuine effort into the activities and people who are important to them.

Holy_Slave · 2024-12-17T01:05:21+00:00

Too hard

Andress1 · 2024-12-17T19:00:17+00:00

I'm 31 year old male, 6 ft white and fit and meet a decent amount of women. I asked at least 4-6 women out in the last 5 months, and this sunday I met 11 women in a speed dating event, and got good feedback from then.

Guess how many success I got? 0

I also went on a tinder date that didn't want a second date.

It took me a long time to not feel horrible everytime I really have a perdiod where I put a lot of effort to meet and date women but I imagine most men are not like me.

Dating as man is just horrible and depressing. A lot of hard work for mostly nothing.

And I'm a 6ft fit white male. If it's so horrible for me imagine how it for others without my advantages.

I just keep going because I cannot accept being alone and I would love to be in a relationship. I genuinely enjoy spending time with women and love how they are. But they don't feel the same towards me.

Large_Wishbone4652 · 2024-12-17T01:15:55+00:00

Why do they or rather us have to step up?

Now I will have less competition and don't have to put in as much effort....

And the ones who dropped out of the dating market probably have it better too.

Now you have more guys to share activities with and they don't have to be caring about approval of women.

According-Tea-3014 · 2024-12-18T00:13:33+00:00

I dont see a point in "competing," when I know I'm never going to be picked and exist solely to make someone look better.

Wide-Illustrator2906 · 2024-12-18T01:38:32+00:00

The men dropping out of dating are the men women don't want.The women who are complaining about not having a boyfriend either don't like the men that like them or can't secure comittment from the men they do like

BowelMan · 2024-12-18T11:30:46+00:00

I could never take seriously a woman with a nose ring. What are you, a cow? Why would you do this to yourself, woman?

mashedturnip · 2024-12-18T21:12:20+00:00

Shaming and nagging people into doing things they don’t want to doesn’t make them into good, pleasant partners with no resentment or issues

For example, the only way they got women to do things they didn’t want to was to make them economically, socially, medically and politically dependent

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-12-17T01:38:51+00:00

Yes, there’s a female loneliness epidemic. Women without men will start amassing huge armies of cats, eventually including big cats like lions and tigers, and cause civil unrest. Men better step up to their god-given purpose and start asking women out again, otherwise they’re askin’ for a Baskin.

missmireya · 2024-12-17T02:44:50+00:00

Hahaha never going to happen. There will always be thirsty desperate men out there.

If I downloaded any dating app right now, I could easily get a different date for every single day of the week. If I want to add insult to injury- Probably get a free dinner from every single one of those (schmucks) men as well.

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Artistic_Speech_1965 · 2024-12-17T10:06:18+00:00

I also think men should get better but not in the way people generally think. The dating market change strangely

The old dynamic was completly trown in trash, removing some safety net for both gender. If there is no rule, new ones will be created, and attractive people are the ones who set them

Independently of the gender, people who have options can do whatever they want and exploit people the way they want without real consequences. For instance, a man can access the body of a lot of women without commitment or a woman can access the ressources of a lot of men without commitment

People with a lot of option can be lazy, low effort, harsh and treat their partner poorly but know there will always be someone else around the corner. This kind of behaviour leave bitter people who will corrupt the dating pool

Since the old rules and the traditional values are rejected, the only way to protect individuals is to teach them about healthy relationships and how the current market works

That can apply for both gender but I think men are able to make a change

John_Oakman · 2024-12-17T13:51:12+00:00

What are the incentives for males to fulfill their social obligations? That is the root cause of the issue. However, the morally virtuous have nothing to bargain with: For genuine moral virtues are wholly independent of worldly results, and [nominally] behavior prodded upon by ulterior motives are more heinous than active villainy.

Thus males, most of them falling far short of the genuine moral virtues expected by modern society, react to material/worldly incentives/disincentives instead.

Also while we're at it, if it is only the validation market that's tanking, then the solution is to make bots of LVMs and release them onto social media. After all, if the purpose of the LVM is to be rejected en masse then bots can serve the role even better than moids.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-12-17T14:52:26+00:00

I think we shouldn’t try and get people to do something they don’t want.

Young red blooded men with hormones and sex drive will either come to what’s natural, or they won’t. The ones that won’t? That’s ok: it makes it easier for the ones that do.

Both should enjoy thier choices in life

thedeadpill · 2024-12-17T19:03:20+00:00

First, I think there's an open question why it's the case. Your interpretation is that men aren't stepping up, but it could just easily be that the woman represented in the image is too picky. It is possible she hasn't had a boyfriend because she rejects everyone who asks. I'm of the opinion that the answer is probably somewhere in between: the average woman who has never had a boyfriend has rejected some and never been asked by others.

From the male side, I think a lot of men are in a thought process of "why bother?" There is a lot to live for that isn't a romantic partner. I've been married. I have children (in their teens now). I've been in quite a few relationships post-divorce, and in my experience, women are often just not worth the trouble. They're often not equal contributors to the relationship, and don't offer much. For myself (and I suspect many men), romantic relationships just don't provide anything I actually need.

This is cowardly behavior resulting in less males in the dating pool.

I don't think it's cowardice. While I hate applying market principles to romance, I think it's just a feature of the price being too high for men, when there are dozens of competing products like alcohol, drugs, video games, work/career, friendships, etc. For me in particular, my friends are now a bigger part of my life than ever before, and these people that I spend time with and enjoy the company of... they make my need for a romantic partner less. Add in a perennial FWB, and the need for romance is entirely obviated. It's not cowardice because of an overwhelming fear... it's an overwhelming indifference.

The actual argument: Why should men stop dropping out? For the sake of society? It's my radical choice to not care about the future. There needs to be an incentive for me to care, and so far, no one suggesting that men need to 'step up' has provided one.

ObjectiveSquire · 2024-12-22T17:30:51+00:00

OH NO

The "undesierables" are learning and leaving.

Guess no more free meals and attention.

RockEmergency · 2024-12-23T16:28:29+00:00

Why shouldn't I drop out? I have done the self-improvement route--I have worked out and gone from 300lbs to 182lbs at 6'0, I have worked on my socialization skills intensively, and I have gone from being poor to making nearly six figures.

If that wasn't enough to score a woman who meets my standards (don't have kids, don't be obese, be at least a 5), then it's clear no amount of confidence or self-improvement will fix that. I am going on 30 and I have only ever had two girlfriends; this indicates to me that I am undesirable and there is something fundamentally wrong with me. I can sit here and keep trying, which will lead to me becoming jaded and misogynistic, I can settle for a woman I don't feel a genuine pull to (which isn't fair to her) or I can just check the fuck out and focus on the things that do make me happy. One of these options seems more logical.

Most of us dropping out aren't desirable to begin with. It affects nothing.

Big-Sir7034 · 2024-12-29T11:11:43+00:00

It’s a free market

Goonerlouie · 2024-12-17T02:35:28+00:00

Dating feels like one market correction after the next. Someone needs to be the first gender to revert back to some normalcy.

If that means for a woman to give a normal/average guy a chance then so be it. If that means for a man to forget about their past and focus on how they are in the present then so be it also.

Tokimonatakanimekat · 2024-12-17T09:23:14+00:00

it's a race to the bottom and that's bad for society

I know what's worse - birth rates. How about we address that glaring problem first and then start fixing such trivial matters as men dropping out of dating market, huh?

2024-12-17T18:12:53+00:00

females don't deserve attention nor are they entitled to it. If you want us you have to appease us, it goes both ways. What good are you besides being a wet hole and looking pretty, nothing, no inherent value whatsoever ever, just a means to an end and a shitty one at that. You aren't entitled to these options, and we have the right to drop out when we feel humiliated and dehumanized. Maybe do better as a woman and maybe we might come back, rather than act like an adult child expecting things to be handed to you on a silver platter.

EetinAintCheetin · 2024-12-17T03:07:02+00:00

Men are simultaneously in desperate need of touch, love and sex, without which they will not die but go mentally insane AND at the same time absolutely unwilling to put actual effort towards getting the love and sex they so desperately need.

Why is the question?

Title	CMV: Males should stop dropping out of the dating market
Author	Windmill_flowers
Upvotes	0
Comments	146
Date	December 17, 2024 12:56 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1hfypcn/cmv_males_should_stop_dropping_out_of_the_dating/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-males-should-stop-dropping-out-of-the-dating.1538721 https://theredarchive.com/post/1538721

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