It’s immoral of men to have casual sex with women if the effects are as dire as they say.

BirdManBrrrr · 2019-02-11T14:52:16+00:00

Women are the gatekeepers of sex, they can say no and refuse casual sex or set conditions for sex that would otherwise lead to a better long term outcome for themselves.

Women making men responsible for women's promiscuity is nothing more than offloading their own agency and absolving any individual woman of her bodily autonomy. No man forces a woman to have casual sex and if one does it's quite clearly rape.

Her body, her choice.

Women are autonomous human beings responsible for their own decisions CMV.

Edit- cleaned up writing, not enough coffee.

Cissnowflake · 2019-02-11T14:28:05+00:00

I'm qualified to answer this one, as I took a pass on casual sex for a long time as a young man.

Bottom line is that if it's not you, it's probably going to be someone even worse. You aren't doing anybody favors by trying to be above the game.

blackedoutfast · 2019-02-11T18:27:20+00:00

this argument would only make sense if women had no agency and weren't competent to make decisions on their own.

either women are equal to men and therefore responsible for the consequences of their choices and actions, or women need to be protected from themselves because they are inferior to men and lacking the competence to make important big girl decisions on their own.

i know that women like to have it both ways so they can choose which ever way is more beneficial in any particular situation. and that IS immoral. if y'all want us men to take you seriously and let you vote and have real jobs and all that stuff, then you need to stop trying to blame men for the consequences of not keeping your legs closed.

whatdidshewrite · 2019-02-11T15:07:03+00:00

How about women are responsible for fucking themselves over

isweartoofuckingmuch · 2019-02-11T14:24:45+00:00

Women make their own choices of who they sleep with. There's nothing immoral about it one way or the other. The only thing that's there is stigma. If they don't want the stigma, then they shouldn't be sleeping around and expect LTRs when they went home with jimmy bob hanging around at the bar after closing.

CrestfallenWolf · 2019-02-11T19:33:50+00:00

Yes, women have no agency and aren't responsible for who they Fuck...

Blows my mind every time.

[deleted] · 2019-02-11T23:34:56+00:00

Great another “Women can’t be responsible for their choices” post. Look I personally don’t care or think the number of partners has anything to do with a woman’s ability to love and bond with a man. If a woman is mad and unhappy with the casual sex she has, she either A) don’t have casual sex or B) vet their partners better more than the dude just being tall and having a nice jaw. It takes two to consensually decide to fuck, acting like one side held a gun to you to want to fuck the guy who didn’t commit is so dumb.

Popeman79 · 2019-02-11T14:37:02+00:00

I completely believe that women lose their ability to pair bond if they have too much casual sex, and I live by what I say.

Three years ago I met a girl like 14 years younger than me. We went out on a couple of dates but I realized she was kinda old-fashioned and didn't have a lot of experience. I could also see signs of attachment that were beyond mere interest. She desperately wanted to pair-bond with me.

So I didn't fuck her, out of a stupid sense of responsibility. Although she was really attractive and deeply into me, but I knew I would never consider a ltr with her. I kept her as a friend, and I kind of mentored her (giving her work and fitness advice mostly, and how to deal with guys who were texting her).

EDIT: not saying I do that with every girl, just the ones when I feel they still have maintained part of their innocence and are willing to bond and commit to one man. I leave these ones untouched so that the right man can take them

Eastuss · 2019-02-11T14:24:12+00:00

They have a certain logic in which women are at loss for having casual sex. But that doesn't mean it's part of their moral.

It's just immoral for you because a woman is at loss.

We do a lot of things everyday knowing that someone is going to be at loss for it, yet these things aren't immoral. When someone hands you something for free, you don't think that's immoral for you to accept, you think it's the other person's responsibility for handing you something free. Somehow in your world view, women aren't responsible for the sex they have?

wekacuck · 2019-02-11T14:50:59+00:00

I am interested in where you learned that sexual promiscuous women have issue loving and bonding. Personally I've never experienced that issue.

douchebag_throwaway3 · 2019-02-11T15:46:38+00:00

You have it wrong.

Women that are already damaged try and self medicate their pain by using sex as a way to feel whole again.

It's a faulty causation. Men see women having lots of sex and say "lots of sex damages women". When the truth is closer to "these women are damaged, therefore they are having lots of sex".

diffdedbed · 2019-02-11T16:14:18+00:00

Being I live in a world of casual sex, I think you have two different mindsets to it, and you can judge if you have empathy.

There is the attention seeking, sort of desperation, maybe he will like me if I do this casual sex. That would be immoral to have as a man if you cared about her well being and were only interested in getting your rocks off and not seeing her again.

Then there is the casual sex where shes just fucking horny as hell and really wants to get off. This is the group I hang with and I see no moral issue. They are there for sex and sex only. They don't want a relationship with you, and would probably be weirded out if you called them after.

eliechallita · 2019-02-11T16:21:06+00:00

For that to work, you'd have to assume that the men who believe that theory give two shits about the wellbeing of women...

throwaway-637 · 2019-02-11T19:24:03+00:00

Men are essentially cucking themselves and each other by both wanting/having casual sex and then complaining that 70% of divorces are initiated by women. Studies show that people who didn't have premarital sex have a more satisfying sex life and divorce rates of people who didn't have premarital sex are much lower. If men value relationships over casual sex, they should refrain from casual sex. Can't have both. But men still desire casual sex over (more lasting and sexually satisfying) relationships anyway, and even if they don't they can't help themselves.

Pope_Lucious · 2019-02-12T10:40:03+00:00

Women knowingly enter into the consensual contract and are adults.

Argument over.

Barely-moral · 2019-02-11T14:32:22+00:00

Cigarettes are bad for the people who consume them.

Is it immoral to sell cigarettes?

People are free to do things that are not good for them. The responsability is on the people that decide to put their well being at risk.

Women decide to have casual sex, they are free to carpet bomb their ability to pair bond if they want to do it. As long as she gives consent, there is no immoral act.

Agreement between consenting adults is the bar for morality when it comes to anything sex related.

Edit: Mistakes

bostezo22 · 2019-02-11T14:35:11+00:00

Yes it goes that way but your mission as a male is to have sex with the most females possible, while her mission is to sort and filter a good male. If she fails is her problem, not the male's, as you are programmed to have sex with so many girls as you can.

goatismycopilot · 2019-02-11T15:11:52+00:00

I think calling manwhore guys immoral monsters is kind of over the top. If they want to have disease dick, it really is not going to bother me. Given how many antibiotic resistant organisms there are now it is pretty much inevitable that STDs will end being a scourge again and be difficult or impossible to treat you will see people walking around missing a nose or with syphilis brain because when they were over protected kids their mommy demanded the pediatrician give them antibiotics for everything. From what I have seen antibiotic resistance hits the Hispanic population hard because in Mexico and some Central American countries obtaining them is merely a matter of going to the pharmacy. So stay away from hot Hispanic guys because they hate condoms and are more likely to end up with resistant infections.

Men who have tons of casual sex aren't immoral they are just a bad bet for monogamy. If they want to be douche Bros let them.

At least in the 70's and 80's casual sex was more fun for the women because the men knew what they were doing because they actually had mild interest in how their partner perceived the sex and porn was not full of gay fantasy memes like anal and jackhammer deluxe, I think what will kill casual sex is not morality but incompetence and lack of attraction. If you look at pictures of people from spring break for college kids in the 70's and 80's or street scenes of people in their 20's, ordinary people were much more attractive than they are now.

American men besides being, fat dress like eight year old boys in ill fitting clothes and often sound retarded when they talk, I think we hit peak casual sex and it is going to decline because nobody looks all that great now so the "problem" on both sides will self correct.

Atlas_B_Shruggin · 2019-02-11T14:50:08+00:00

whats this morality you speak of

Source_or_gtfo · 2019-02-11T15:38:35+00:00

This would ironically make a lot of feminist complaints about male behaviour make a whole lot more sense...

despisedlove2 · 2019-02-11T15:51:24+00:00

Women are responsible for their own actions.

TheBookOfSeil · 2019-02-11T16:09:47+00:00

Two things:

1) Women don’t fail to love and pair bond because they have too much sex. Promiscuity is merely a symptom of the problem, and I’m not talking about “promiscuity” that would make the average Amish girl blush. I’m talking about averaging one new sexual partner a month - promiscuous.

2) Morality has nothing to do with biology, so that’s a pointless argument.

MGTOWThrowaway777 · 2019-02-11T15:20:04+00:00

Man here, and I absolutely agree. Casual sex is immoral, regardless of gender.

[deleted] · 2019-02-11T15:22:35+00:00

Ladies supposedly suffer a decreased ability to pair bond and love.

"supposedly" LOL

Ladies tend to confuse Eros with Phillia and basically expect the cad with tons of options who P&D'd her to actually develop feelings, stick around, and care for her.

the_calibre_cat · 2019-02-11T15:58:55+00:00

You just think men are monsters no matter what they do, so that's fine.

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EGOtyst · 2019-02-11T15:08:13+00:00

Caveat Emptor.

Plopolok · 2019-02-11T15:22:03+00:00

I kind of agree, but it doesn't matter much. It's like saying fracking is immoral. What matters is whether it's forbidden or rewarded, you can't count on morality alone to transform society. And it's particularly "vicious" with the SMP, because when you refrain from doing things you would enjoy because they're immoral, you don't get much casual sex anyway. Cowards who respect rules and let themselves be shamed into conformity are repulsive, while dominators who make their own rules are attractive. So, as a man, what do you do? Live a moral incel life, or stop worrying and fuck sluts? What do you do if many other men around you choose the second, and become popular with women because of it? What if the sweetheart to which you wanted to propose is sleeping with them? What if when you say it shouldn't be like this you're mocked and told you just need to grow a spine and stop doing covert contracts, or even better just disappear with your deficient genes?

The_Frag_Man · 2019-02-11T16:03:53+00:00

Those men have no responsibility for those women's choices.

throwinout · 2019-02-11T16:07:58+00:00

Women try to take advantage of men, men try to take advantage of women. Just like men would be blamed for being taken advantage of by women, the reverse should be true as well. How much sympathy do you have for men that are taken advantage of? I bet next to none judging by your other posts.

Just like men wouldn't be taken advantage of if they didn't offer to pay for dates without getting nothing out of it, women wouldn't suffer the consequences you speak of if they didn't slut around.

nevomintoarce · 2019-02-11T16:26:09+00:00

If they don't know it ruins the woman's pair bonding in the future it's not immoral.

whichbladeN · 2019-02-11T16:34:47+00:00

This would only apply to taking a woman's virginity. After that, she knows sex causes her stress.

Dash_of_islam · 2019-02-11T16:43:30+00:00

SHE WANTS SEX!!!!!!!!

It was her decision to have sex and with that comes the consequences

I never agreed to her trade of relationship for sex.

I won't lie and pretend like I want to date her if I decided I'm not interested

I am no different than someone selling alcohol or cigarettes or running a Casino.

She is responsible for making her own decisions, I am just a dick she is fucking. Strong independent homegirl needs some feminism to learn some independence

peterlongc · 2019-02-11T17:51:57+00:00

it is immoral. but it takes two to tango. and most people basically don't believe in morality anymore.

chronorock · 2019-02-11T18:18:18+00:00

How does women having casual sex hurt pair bonding? I'm what some people might call a low value male, so maybe my standards are lower compared to other men. I can see how higher value men who get caught up in male competition would have more to lose in terms of their ego, so they can't deal with a promicious women. Either because the idea of her being with other men or the shamefulness of a women being promicious is enough to see the woman as beneath him. In terms of promicious women being actually damaged in some way, mentally emotionally, I don't know how true that is other than people with issues might use sex as a way to cope. Personally, I don't mind women with some issues.

bonslytoss · 2019-02-11T19:01:10+00:00

They are destroying a woman if they have sex with her and do not LTR her.

An incredibly bold assumption to say that the woman either had no choice to have sex with him, or was never cautioned against casual sex by her family/church/society.

I agree that it is immoral for a man to engage in casual sex knowing that the women who he pumps and dumps will be worse off for it, but I take greater umbrage at the immorality of the blame shifting that must accompany the ideology. It's better to leave people to take care of their own responsibility than to flip the script and say that it's the man's fault that he didn't prevent the woman from having consensual sex with him.

ThisIsJustATr1bute · 2019-02-11T22:02:28+00:00

TRP is amoral so that means they can do whatever they want and the morality doesn’t matter. QED.

/s

thrownaway2thewind · 2019-02-11T22:27:13+00:00

I'm on the side of only having sex out of love so casual sex is off the table for me. But when I reject a well meaning girl for a ONS she'll usually just find another dude instantly. Girls who are slutting it up aren't really doing much thinking when it comes to morals, honor, or the cognitive effects of it. I can try to be that nice guy and explain to her she should do more consideration but her body is her own and she'll do whatever she thinks she wants anyway

[deleted] · 2019-02-11T22:29:50+00:00

If you think morality here plays a role at all then you are wrong from the start.

thrownaway2thewind · 2019-02-11T22:31:09+00:00

I told this before but the last girl I was seeing was a virgin. We were hanging out and she said "Hey I was like at this party and my friend lost her virginity to a new guy she met, she said it was totally great so I think I'd be alright with the same you know?" Out of no where.

I didn't sleep with her because it wasn't love and I wasn't going to commit to her. It would be completely unfair for me to ruin not only a huge milestone in life but also the way she internalizes sex. I think it's important to engage with someone you love so you can understand what making love truly is first.

Xemnas81 · 2019-02-12T01:30:51+00:00

Just here to point out that you are essentially a 19th century feminist promoting male chastity now!

Stevefr0mYellowstone · 2019-02-12T04:29:55+00:00

I agree that one can look at the red pill philosophy and find a certain level of hypocrisy to it. The desire is for virgins, or those with low notch counts, yet the philosophy encourages actions that will lead to more casual sex, which will reduce the number of women who are virgins and of low notch counts out there.

I guess the counter to that would be that if you look at it from a macro level, if the woman wants to have sex, she is going to have sex. If you turn her down, thinking you are doing society good, you're not really doing so. She is simply going to move onto another guy who will do it with her.

Also, I think many who are red pilled would argue that they aren't looking to change things, they don't think things can be changed, and they are trying to best cope with the system the way it is. Which nowadays is hedonism and casual sex.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2019-02-12T05:11:01+00:00

Why are you adamant in taking women's responsibility for their actions?

wtffellification · 2019-02-12T08:50:23+00:00

It's not immoral, it's just unethical. We all do all sorts of unethical stuff all the time

orcscorper · 2019-02-12T10:17:12+00:00

I don't see a lot of openness to you having your view changed, u/azngirl7689. Almost a day, and you only made one comment showing no willingness to actually engage the argument, just reinforce your original assertion? I guess Bachelors and Teen Moms were more important. This is no CMV; it's just you stirring the shit. Again.

[deleted] · 2019-02-12T10:36:21+00:00

I partially agree with this, but I'd extend it to say that it would be immoral for both genders to have casual sex if they consider the long-term outcome as being bad. I think casual sex usually has a bad long term outcome, and its why I refuse to have casual sex. To me, this choice is about being moral and believing that life, and what we do in life, is inherently meaningful, and it is not about valuing women more than men, or treating them as semi-adults with no agency, which are two things I don't believe in.

daveofmars · 2019-02-12T14:07:06+00:00

Why is it our (men's) responsibility? Why is it that we have to control our behavior and not have sex with women to ensure their chastity?

Why not have women control themselves?

In forming the question in such a way, you have reinforced the idea that women have no agency over their actions.

azngirl7689 · 2019-02-12T18:13:55+00:00

Where is this “No pair bonding if a woman has casual sex” data? It’s referred to like it’s a given but seems sketchy; best they can do is collect phenomenological self-reporting, and that’s never good data.

dicklord_airplane · 2019-02-12T20:29:40+00:00

Women are responsible for their own choices. If negative consequences come with casual sex, then those women should stop having casual sex. Those women should only have sex with men who are willing to have a committed relationship with them.

If you're having trouble not having casual sex, you need to start talking to men about your needs and desires before you have sex. Tell men straight up, "I only want to have sex in monogamous relationships. Do you want to have a monogamous relationships, or do you only want casual non-committal sex?" Saying this to men will do wonders to keep away guys who only want casual sex. If you keep fucking guys before you even know what they want and how they feel about you, then you're going to keep getting the same results.

Nobody forces women to have casual sex. That would be rape. It's your own fault if you keep choosing to sleep with guys who don't even want a relationship with you. You do that damage to yourself.

Nu_Guy · 2019-02-13T01:01:26+00:00

To use your language,

Girls would rather be with a "monster" who is tall confident and charming, than a shy short guy who is a virgin.....

darksoldierk · 2019-02-13T03:41:07+00:00

Immoral in what way? Knowing that men have a much stronger sex drive then women, would you consider women who reject men after asked for sex as "immoral"?

Ultimately, morality is a scale, with the person's self interest being on one end and the effects of a choice on the other. For example, needlessly killing someone is immoral, because it's needles. It brought no benefit and did more harm then good. But killing someone is self defense is not immoral, because the person who killed benefited more than the harm that killing the victim did.

Given the biological urge for sex that men have, and given the fact that it's men who have to work to obtain sex, sleeping with women and not LTR's them, to me, is not immoral. It would be immoral if it was, say, illegal for a woman to reject a man. It's all about the scale.

[deleted] · 2019-02-13T21:33:04+00:00

Totally agree with your conclusion that it's immoral, but I disagree that it's without consequences for the men involved. These men are actively contributing to the inflation of women's value, as well as putting themselves at risk of being accused of rape, by women who likely actually feel they've been raped. It also prevents men from maturing; gaming and then having sex is childs play, while maintaining a relationship is hard work.

abaxeron · 2019-02-14T20:00:06+00:00

If we sort "shit that has dire effects on women" by.... duh, "effects", then the top will be what women do to themselves. The second probably will be what women vote for.

So yeah, if we want to protect the women from "dire effects", we need to deprive them of freedom and ban them from voting. THEN, the effects of men having casual sex with women - will probably pop somewhere around top priorities.

To quote you, "it's immoral" to concentrate on lesser evils first.

Electra_Cute · 2019-02-11T14:37:38+00:00

I agree with you that would be immoral(if it was true), but the problem is that they probably do not care about doing the "right" thing or they rationalize it.

tickledpic · 2019-02-11T15:06:47+00:00

Women want casual sex too. Most popular sexual fantasies involve strangers. Fantasies about a husband are usually "good life" fantasies not "that would be so hot" fantasies.

One of the reasons they say they don't want casual sex is because most times it means bad sex. And bad sex is something they really do not want.

Shadow_Of_ · 2019-02-11T22:08:22+00:00

A key that opens every lock is a good key

Profligate-Prophet · 2019-02-11T22:39:36+00:00

"Here is an issue that is causing problems in our society. We should blame men and reliquish any accountability towards women. CMV"

sadomasochrist · 2019-02-11T15:41:47+00:00

Apparently men can have casual sex sans consequences but women can’t. Ladies supposedly suffer a decreased ability to pair bond and love.

The problem isn't that men are not subject to the same problem. It's just that the "side effects" don't seem to impact men as much. So you start viewing women as sex objects instead of objects of affection. So what? Basically men see this as growth, they're no longer subject to the enchanting spell that put them into their self imposed prison.

What leverage does a woman have on a man who is only interested in sex?

All she can do is not put out, that's it. Which is why TRP is formulated in the way it is. If she stops, you've got two options waiting in the wings.

Most women when they've become alpha widows have kids or are looking for men to wine and dine them, but as they get older, more and more men have seen what a mistake it was. That there's no upshot to being a male romantic.

And so they have to ruthlessly compete for the rare blue pill alpha males who are going to see the baggage from a mile away.

Moolg86 · 2019-02-11T19:53:12+00:00

Why is it so easy to remove the agency from women in regards to this topic?

Close your legs and ignore those tingles from chad, otherwise bang on and deal with the supposed consequences later.

I don’t think this idea is set in stone however, I think as with all things there are varying degrees of these effects from woman to woman, kind of like how dairy products affect people who claim to be lactose intolerant.

Title	It’s immoral of men to have casual sex with women if the effects are as dire as they say.
Author	azngirl7689
Upvotes	44
Comments	245
Date	February 11, 2019 2:17 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/apgoqk/its_immoral_of_men_to_have_casual_sex_with_women/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/its-immoral-of-men-to-have-casual-sex-with-women.257283 https://theredarchive.com/post/257283

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