Divorce Laws are Mostly Unfair to Women, Actually.

orcscorper · 2018-06-19T17:01:42+00:00

You don't have to have children. This is the 21st century. There is no financial cost to a woman just because she gets married. Take the kids out of the equation, and your entire post disappears.

If divorce is so unfair to women, why do y'all keep doing it? If marriage is so bad, why do women always pressure men to "put a ring on it?" Do women consistently act against their best interest ?

BirdManBrrrr · 2018-06-19T16:23:04+00:00

The men in this forum literally scoff if you suggest that men make sacrifices for women’s career, or at their wives struggle to lose weight after pushing out his kids, or her taking time outs from sex...

We scoff because folks like you—and women in general—hold men to their traditional gender roles of providing along with women actively and deliberately choosing to forego career, etc to be a mommy. You’re on here quite a bit lamenting how men abdicate their ability to provide, so now ur mad men don’t want to sacrifice their own career?

Make up your mind: you want men to provide high value yet at the same time sacrifice that potential for the sake of the woman. Can’t necessarily have both.

Krychek26 · 2018-06-19T19:34:15+00:00

The fact that 80% of divorces are initiated by women and men are the ones backing out of marriage demonstrates this is bullshit.

Forever the victims.

quotient_is · 2018-06-19T18:23:18+00:00

From the cited Atlantic article:

Seven years later, her husband told her to leave their house, and filed for a divorce she couldn’t afford. “He said he was tired of my medical issues, and unwilling to work on things,” she said, citing her severe rheumatoid arthritis and OCD, both of which she manages with medication. “He kicked me out of my own house, with no job and no home, and then my only recourse was to lawyer up. I’m paying them on credit.”

Bullshit. I dont' believe for one minute a man filed for divorce and "kicked her out" of the house. Divorces and home possession orders pending divorce just don't work that way. Most of the time when he files, he leaves the house. The ONLY way you can get a sole possession order in a pending divorce is a showing that the person being displaced has a way to make immediate alternate living arrangements and can afford to pay for those arrangements.

The only way a wife getting kicked out of the house happens is when the man pays for her living arrangements. So she could afford it - if in fact that's the way it happened, which I doubt.

No way does a woman suffering from arthritis and OCD who isn't working gets just coldly kicked out. No. Fucking. Way. No judge is ever going to sign that order. If anything, a judge is going to sign an order telling HIM to get out.

Mr_Smoogs · 2018-06-19T15:29:58+00:00

Just because women can't find a quality man to raise some other man's kids, doesn't mean divorce laws are unfair to women. It appears that you are arguing nature is unfair to women, not laws.

So this appears to be a very long-winded and wasteful attempt at convincing us that "life is unfair." Do you want me to try to convince you that nature is fair? Because that is the vibe I am getting right now.

max_peenor · 2018-06-19T17:49:48+00:00

Oh my fucking GOD, the drama.

Boo.

Fucking.

Hoo.

we have a much shorter window in which to reproduce than men do, and our energy expenditure toward parenting is MUCH higher.

No. Women have demanded, and gotten, men to take much more active roles in parenting.

The financial cost to women is always greater for that reason. The energy expenditure toward raising children is so high that we have to make huge sacrifices in other areas of life, which are rarely recoupable.

No. You're all female breadwinners. There are more and more female breadwinners now than ever before - BECAUSE YOU WANT IT THAT WAY. Because it gives women maximum control over their lives - financial independence from icky beta men; and the ability to force their subservient financially dependent husbands into those roles.

Career is one sacrifice, physical health is another, emotional investment, body autonomy is another, etc.

No on all. You all go back to work after having kids. Women's physical health has never been better. Emotional - there are all kinds of support systems for women. Bodily autonomy - PLEASE. No one "owns" your body. "My body, my choice". Right?

They have Literally no respect for these VERY large sacrifices.

Because society has been completely reengineered to reduce and eliminate those "sacrifices" to the point that they are no longer sacrifices.

Namely, that your wife’s ability to forge her own destiny is severely limited, if not over completely after having your kids.

Unadulterated bullshit. Again - all of society has changed so that a wife can leave a marriage and take most of the assets and the kids with her.

Men can divorce and easily make second and third families, which they do,

On what planet is this happening? Most men are completely DESTROYED after a divorce. They don't have money even to live in a shitty apartment, much less remarry. The 1950s called- they want their old tropes back.

Women suffer SEVERE loss in SMV and RMV because of marriage and kids that men do not.

Women bring that on themselves by leaving their husbands, treating their husbands like shit, and letting douchebags, shitbags, criminals and thugs knock them up. Protip, sweeties - if you want to reproduce with a man who stays with you, then STOP FUCKING DOUCHEBAGS.

Men see children as a burden, but want women to see them as a gift.

Horseshit. If my wife leaves me, I will fight tooth and nail for full custody. I love my kids.

women get to be poor and saddled with kids of a man she can’t stand after divorce.

You women can fix this problem right now, this very day.

STOP FUCKING DOUCHEBAGS. STOP BEARING THE CHILDREN OF SHITBAGS AND THUGS.

hammerhaunts · 2018-06-19T16:27:17+00:00

It would be easier for women to avoid this, if they decided not to be stay at home mothers

quicklogaccount · 2018-06-19T18:23:21+00:00

Is your point:
"Women have desires of motherhood and need men to fulfill them, but have no guarantees that these desires will be properly fulfilled by the men they happen to pick.
The divorce laws are unfair to women because they don't take enough of men to manage to give them this guarantee and even if they did there'd still be some chance that the men wouldn't be able to provide such guarantees, which means the world is unfair to women itself."
?

Madness20 · 2018-06-19T16:01:44+00:00

Marriage creates opportunity cost for women becuase we have a much shorter window in which to reproduce than men do, and our energy expenditure toward parenting is MUCH higher.

Technically incorrect. Men die, become infertile or impotent, develop diseases or simply have accidents that prevent them from being able to reproduce all the time. The fact is, no matter the "window", a lot more women manage to reproduce than men, across all epochs. This is to say, opportunity is rarer for men, and usually at the expense of high risk activities and investments.

The financial cost to women is always greater for that reason.

The investment that a man makes to reach the point be able to get into a relationship and provide to his offspring is a lot higher than a woman, and usually during it. Men invest their own health by risking their lifes and working harder than women in their workplaces.

The opportunity and life cost is always greater for women. Men can divorce and easily make second and third families, which they do

Women can also divorce and make a second and third family. Nothing preventing them to do so, in fact branch swinging is a thing.

This is almost impossible for single mothers - especially those who are custodial parents. They won’t have the time or energy

Single mothers still do have an easier time getting a relationship than most single fathers, there's just that much availability, and they certainly have a much greater chance of meeting someone that can provide as well or better than her previous husband.

. Women suffer SEVERE loss in SMV and RMV because of marriage and kids that men do not.

Women suffer sever loss in SMV and RMV because of aging. Marriage has nothing to do with it. A 20 yr old single mother is still as hot and desirable as it gets. Most women on my family married and had kids with some man, and then divorced and married a doctor or something comparable when they realized that they could.

Women more often have to sacrifice their wants and needs for their children’s and husbands wants and needs, and that can be anything from career to day to day lifestyle choice.

Men sacrifice their life and health in their workplace, at home, and everywhere for it's family safety and well being. No sacrifice is comparable to sacrificing your own lifespan.

Dropping off a check every month is really the least men can do. AND MOST OF YOU CANNOT EVEN DO THAT, much less be active and involved parents on a daily basis.

Many men would be happy to do more than that, but they're not allowed to, because courts are biased against them. Other men, on the other way around, have kids against their own will and shouldn't even be asked to support kids they didn't want to have. Men do not have to pay for women's choices.

cxj · 2018-06-19T20:30:38+00:00

One of the main flaws with this post o haven’t seen addressed is th assumption that men want and like Work, as opposed to suffering through it for paychecks like most people do. Then after years of this they get divorced and don’t even get to have the family anymore they worked so hard for and still have to pay for

hillsiggy · 2018-06-19T22:31:49+00:00

Let's just agree that the real victims are the children. The children are the ones that suffer in this situation. That's why it's so important for BOTH sides to do anything and everything in their power to make the marriage work.

the-4th-survivor · 2018-06-20T01:17:41+00:00

Jammerly, you claimed that divorce laws are "actually" unfair to women but your post was about marriage and didn't even address divorce laws at all. If divorce were really that bad for women they wouldn't be the ones who file for it the large majority of the time. When it comes down to it it's usually women who make the choice to pack up and leave, not men. About 70% of divorces are initiated by the woman.

reluctantly_red · 2018-06-20T02:01:29+00:00

If women don't like divorce maybe they shouldn't file so freely -- just saying.

says_harsh_things · 2018-06-19T16:10:14+00:00

your wife's ability to forge her own destiny is severely limited after having your kids

Are they not your kids as well? Was it not your own destiny to have kids in the first place?

When you phrase things like this, the your biased outlook becomes evident from a mile away.

abaxeron · 2018-06-19T19:28:24+00:00

Marriage creates opportunity cost for women becuase we have a much shorter window in which to reproduce than men do

Marriage does not shorten your reproductive window, nor does it cause you to have babies, as evidenced both by significant amount of childen born out of wedlock and significant amount of women who stayed childless while in marriage, even historically (up to 10% for commoners, up to 40% for nobility in Britain between 17th and 18th century; figure 3).

I have a strong beef with mother nature too. Not much more useful than shouting at a cloud.

More than that, the approach you already framed here in un-holistic as Hell. A LOT of biological realities and social constructions create opportunity costs for men. NONE of them are compensated at women's expense. On what basis dissolution of marriage should be THE ONLY exception?

The financial cost to women is always greater for that reason.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_most_expensive_divorces

I am putting this link for you to reconsider the word "ALWAYS". If divorce is meant to compensate for women's expenses related to children, then Jocelyn Perisset Wildenstein gave birth to two most expensive children ever conceived in human history, $1.9 billion each. Paid to her by her husband. To pay this compensation to every woman simply for giving birth, we'd require roughly 650 times higher GDP spent entirely on compensations to women. 650 TIMES. I.e. men would need to work roughly 3 times more and more than 200 times faster at the same time.

Career is one sacrifice, physical health is another, emotional investment, body autonomy is another, etc.

Child-bearing is safer than ever in human history, thanks to predominantly male ingenuity in the field of obstetric care. The cases of health complications are perceived as catastrophic and treated as such. Even in controlled longitudinal studies, having 2 to 4 children seems to affect a woman's lifespan positively. The exceptions cited are usually from the "more Eastern" parts of the world, where the amount of children born per woman often exceeded 6. There's very little, if any, data to support the notion that you, in your environment, in this time period, will "sacrifice" your physical health by simply giving birth. Especially if we're talking Europe, where you'll be run through tests on a weekly basis from roughly 6th month of pregnancy all the way up to the delivery, at the expense of taxpayers.

The energy expenditure toward raising children is so high that we have to make huge sacrifices in other areas of life, which are rarely recoupable.

Childless women are roughly as useless as "childful" ones when it comes to "other areas of life", such as science, business, or even art. This sentence is factually incorrect. There are several Wikipedia pages cataloguing women's achievements in various areas of life; you can count them, see how many of them were single and childless, and see how it reflects the general population of the respective area and time period.

The men in this forum literally scoff if you suggest that men make sacrifices for women’s career, or at their wives struggle to lose weight after pushing out his kids, or her taking time outs from sex because his kids are hanging off of her sucking the life out of her daily. They have Literally no respect for these VERY large sacrifices. Namely, that your wife’s ability to forge her own destiny is severely limited, if not over completely after having your kids.

HER kids. Currently, there are three legal criterions satisfied for women: a) they have the right to destroy the unborn child, and often prosecuted leniently even when they kill the born one; b) they can give the child up for adoption, and c) they can turn their children into source of income through the institution of child support. These three factors combined make children fitting the very definition of private property of women.

Also, VERY often, men do make sacrifices for women's careers, especially their wives. I am not surprised that you made a deliberate effort to ignore it. There's a lot of stories floating around /r/MGTOW and similar places describing women dumping their husbands as soon as those husbands absorbed their student debts.

The opportunity and life cost is always greater for women

Debunked, next non-point.

Men can divorce and easily make second and third families, which they do

Yes, men are more productive than women. And women promised for the last 250 years that all we need to do to alleviate it is knock down a couple institutional barriers. Barriers were friggin' stomped into the dirt. Women are still grossly unproductive.

Women suffer SEVERE loss in SMV and RMV because of marriage and kids that men do not.

Yes.

The divorce laws kind of compensate for that, but honestly not to the extent that they really should.

NAME YOUR "EXTENT"

Please, lay out your framework. How much do I owe you because vagina. I'll write you the goddamn check, and after that, I'd like my earned money to myself. Not to the welfare state. Not to my crazy ex. Not to the system of education that employs rabid man-hating feminists and then the public acts all surprised when another teenager snaps and causes a massacre. Please. Name your price for your existence that the collective manhood needs to carry as a burden. And we'll negotiate. Not "you" personally, but "you" as a metaphorical average woman ofc. But "you" personally may chime in as well.

Willow-girl · 2018-06-20T11:07:03+00:00

I think the fly in your ointment is the fact that in the vast majority of cases, childbearing and -rearing isn't something that's foisted upon women by men, but rather something they wanted and chose for themselves. I agree that in many ways it sucks to be a mom (exponentially so if you're a single mom) but apparently some women think the risk and hardship is worth the reward ...? And who am I to argue with them?

Kiltmanenator · 2018-06-19T18:40:26+00:00

Dropping off a check every month is really the least men can do. AND MOST OF YOU CANNOT EVEN DO THAT, much less be active and involved parents on a daily basis.

Is it true that the majority of men required to pay child support don't/are delinquent?

MagicGainbow · 2018-06-19T19:48:21+00:00

hey have Literally no respect for these VERY large sacrifices. Namely, that your wife’s ability to forge her own destiny is severely limited, if not over completely after having your kids.

The same can be said in a different way for men.

Men can divorce and easily make second and third families, which they do, and then have even less resources to help their ex take care of their kids

Unless this guy is very rich with a very sympathetic judge, this is not true.

90% of the time the man has no interest in being the custodial parent.

Proof? From what i've seen most dads want to be a part of their childrens lives/would love to be the custodial parent but are told in no uncertain way that its not happening so any attempts to make it so are a waste of money.

stats135 · 2018-06-19T16:40:20+00:00

For the first point, I actually agree. Women do have a shorter reproductive window. But the problem is nowadays the majority of that window isnt actually in marriage. If a woman married as a young fertile 18 yo, raises the kids for 18 years to adulthood, and gets divorced at 36, then yes, she should definitely be compensated with alimony and more. But if women postpone marriage, as way too many do nowadays, the men don't actually get much of her youth, if any. They should be happy they even got a man to take care of their them for the duration of the marriage.

For your second point (the majority of the post), if you are talking about children, then its not the laws around divorce, that's the issue, but the laws surrounding children. If you think it is expensive to raise a child, the problem is that raising children is expensive, not that men won't pay for it. None of this would be an issue if you simply don't have children.

LowCreddit · 2018-06-19T17:42:11+00:00

Yes. You have to sacrifice your wage slavery to fulfill the only logical purpose in life which is making copies of yourself. Your baby belly is fat. Calories in. Calories out. If you are complaining about that, you don't have the discipline for a high powered career anyhow. Awww.... is having sex so hard? Poor you. Marriages shouldn't ever require work. That's mean. Women rarely get half. This is very true. They get 70% through mixtures of property division, alimony, and child support. Not to mention you have to keep the products of the previously mentioned sole purpose of life, reproduction.

This is honestly the best troll I have seen on this subreddit yet. Have the upvote you deserve.

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organicsunshine · 2018-06-19T22:54:21+00:00

I disagree that 90% of men have no interest in being the custodial parent if 50% custody solves the child support issue. If a woman cannot support herself and children half the time, she doesn't deserve the thought of full custody.

In modern times it is RARE for one salary to cover the needs of a family. Health care alone will rob you blind. 2 parent working house holds are the norm. So a woman's income is always on the table.

Whiteliesmatter1 · 2018-06-19T23:48:32+00:00

This all sounds very plausible, in 1940. Feminism came, and things have changed.

Here is another perspective. Man goes to school, works hard for shit wages for a long time, doesn’t get laid. Finally lands the big job and salary that comes with it. Suddenly women take notice of him. He marries someone who didn’t go to school and instead spent her youth partying, because surprise, these are the ones who are going to be really good to him now. They marry, she brings nothig to the marriage financially. He supports her and lifts her into another lifestyle for years. They have no kids. It doesn’t work out. They divorce 5 years later. She goes and takes her old job and leaves with the same nothing she brought to the marriage. She leaves the marriage the same way she came. Seem fair?

The law doesn’t work like that. Somehow the woman is entitled to alimony in this situation. Can someone explain why this happens in 2018 when women are afforded then same opportunities as men?

xlithernigga · 2018-06-20T09:16:33+00:00

Women arnt required to have children and usually the discussion about having children is done before mariage so it would very much be on the woman to decide if she wants to have kids. I understand what you are trying to say but the problem is that a lot of these things can be discussed before mariage. The issue men have with marriage is more the possibility of the woman not being interested anymore something that can never really be known.

Jammerly1 · 2018-06-20T10:27:12+00:00

Divorce laws aren't unfair to women, not until they're too unfair for women to even divorce at all.

BenStillerPhaggot72 · 2018-06-20T12:31:49+00:00

Just in: water isn't wet, here's why.

It must be horrible being perpetually confused

Fabianstrategy1 · 2018-06-20T13:57:04+00:00

Men get wealthier after divorce because they care less about spending money on things like clothing, personal care items, food, entertainment, etc. Some men learn to be spendthrift as a result of child support and alimony which translates into better spending habits later in life. Quite spending 8 dollars on a Mochachocabullshit at Starbucks.

Where are these "deadbeat dads" I've met maybe two in the wild compared to all the men who've had their kids used against them for financial extortion. The US incarcerates men for not paying Child support on a regular basis.

This entire post is disingenous.

MGTOWtoday · 2018-06-20T14:08:15+00:00

Yeh, if divorce was so bad for women then women wouldn’t be filing 80% of all divorces. Her inability to successfully monkey branch is not men’s fault. If divorce was really this bad for women then it would already be illegal.

emptyucker7 · 2018-06-20T14:13:02+00:00

your premise incorrectly assumes that the only point of marriage is reproduction. for many married couples this factor is not relevant at all

dthlist · 2018-06-20T14:57:37+00:00

Correct if the woman getting married was under 25. But since girls get married much later (and you yourself are mid thirties) they dont have an opportunity cost at all.

Entropy-7 · 2018-06-20T17:10:03+00:00

There is absolutely zero financial cost of marriage to a woman unless she is the minority and earned substantially more than her husband when he divorces her ass (without a prenup).

Child bearing takes women out of the workforce for at least a few months, but more likely a few years or several years or more. That always reduces a woman's earning potential and does so for the rest of her working life.

>physical health is another, emotional investment, body autonomy is another,

Right because 90% of industrial accident victims are men who take more dangerous jobs to feed their family, divorce is one of the leading suicide risks among men, and they get thrown into jail if they don't pay their alimony and child support.

> Men can divorce and easily make second and third families, which they do, and then have even less resources to help their ex take care of their kids, if they ever really had resources at all.

It's so easy for men, which is why women pull the pin on the divorce grenade between twice as often to as much as 9 times as often. And no, it is not easy to make a second or third family but higher quality guys will remarry and have more kids with other (younger) women who - at least for the time being - appreciate them. As that one Scandinavian study showed, many guys are getting shut out of the fatherhood market because women are "recycling" husbands.

u/submongel might be able to say if "first family first" is still good law and existing policy. In extreme, and exceptional cases you have things like that guy in Tennesee who father 9 children in 3 years while being in and out of prison and has something like 30 kids with 11 different women while having, at best, a minimum wage job. If we are talking about planned pregnancies, it will be guys who are at least above average and are still held to their obligations to their first family, even if it was the woman's choice to abandon him and steal his kids.

But just a note on single mothers. The meme is that 80% of contested custody cases are won by the mothers, and that a majority are settle or conceded by by the fathers to give the mothers full custody with out a fight (that they would lose anyways). I think that is changing. Shared and split custody are becoming more common. Men are changing attitudes but the law and the courts (and their bloody exes) may not be changing as fast. Among the rich and the gangstas, you get some weird dynamics, but shared custody represents a triple threat to mothers. One is that they don't get to virtually monopolize time with the kids as well as making all the life decisions; two is that a guy who decides he does not want to kill himself working 60 hours a week in a dangerous job to support an absent family will have to take a significant drop in income if he wants to spend more time with his kids, and that in turn reduces child support and alimony payments; third is that there is usually an offset which can further reduce child support (but not alimony).

> and men are much less willing to date single moms than women are to date single dads.

Oh date, fine but LTR? Never if you have a brain in your head. Single moms made bad choices and have a system to support them. Single fathers tend to have made the best choices available under the circumstance and have to fight the system all the way. Single mothers are a money pit. Single fathers are still providers.

> Women suffer SEVERE loss in SMV and RMV because of marriage and kids that men do not.

Women only suffer SMV loss because of getting old and fat and - to a lesser extent - bitchy. Men split down the middle somewhat. Divorced men have the highest incidence of promiscuity, as judged by number of partners year-over-year, and also the highest incidence of inceldom which I define as not getting laid for a year or more at a time. In terms of RMV you are right, but probably not for the reasons you think. Again, single dads present as responsible providers; single moms present as women who made bad choices.

OTOH, a woman who put some thought into choosing the father of her children, and then didn't play scorched earth with him to get full custody doesn't take a huge RMV hit. If she keeps in shape and is still in her 30s, she doesn't take a huge SMV hit.

My mother divorced my father - a successful accountant - and didn't divorce rape him and kept her BMI between 20 and 21 despite having 3 kids. Her second husband was an arguably sexy trucker a dozen years younger.

> Women rarely “get half”

Of course, because your little rant here sets aside virtually every divorce law in the free world.

>Men see children as a burden, but want women to see them as a gift.

Men (mostly) see children as a responsibility and obligation and a legacy; women see them as property. The guys who see children as a gift are those that rack up double digits with no intention of supporting them. To the extent that women see children as a "gift" I suppose that is because they are not a white elephant: largely speaking, it is the guy who will bear the financial responsibility of raising them.

> Women more often have to sacrifice their wants and needs for their children’s and husbands wants and needs, and that can be anything from career to day to day lifestyle choice.

Absolute nonsense with no sociological data to support it. Women have higher life statisfaction than men, better life-work balance than men, and are much more willing to break up their family because "I'm not happy!".

The follow on is more bitching; the link is an unrepresentative sample; and the rest is drivle.

A woman's peak fertility window is early 20s. That's enough time to get a bachelor's degree. If you want to have a "career" and then decide to have kids later, you are just shooting yourself in the foot by reducing your fertility and kiling your job prospects by taking yourself out of the job market to get pregnant and give birth and then raise the child.

The better strategy is to find a guy when you are fresh out of college or just about to graduate; have one or more kids in succession in your early 20s; be a SAHM until they are kindergarten age; requalify or upgrade your education to a masters degree in your field, and then start your career.

And for the love of god, so many men bitch about things that could be covered in a prenup: getting your now-successful husband to pay for your masters degree can absolutely be included in that to protect you and your future in case things go south.

Ipride362 · 2018-06-20T17:26:29+00:00

Haha, it's a good read. A bit off the mark, but everyone has their own opinions.

Be careful of the Atlantic, mostly dropouts from WaPo and AP who couldn't cut it in real journalism. I'd suggest Politico or Slate as better reading.

PhotosyntheticChad · 2018-06-20T17:31:47+00:00

If divorce provided any benefits to men I wouldn’t be anti-marriage.

If you can’t afford to have kids, don’t have kids. Don’t expect a man to pay for your mistakes, especially if they aren’t even his.

Eidolon3436 · 2018-06-20T17:56:40+00:00

I love the salt from this one. I hope that life has many many decades of unhappiness for you OP..and I like to think that at some point..somewhere in the cities transit system.. we will someday encounter each other.. and I will not even glance twice.

AllahHatesFags · 2018-06-20T18:32:28+00:00

The men in this forum literally scoff if you suggest that men make sacrifices for women’s career, or at their wives struggle to lose weight after pushing out his kids, or her taking time outs from sex because his kids are hanging off of her sucking the life out of her daily. They have Literally no respect for these VERY large sacrifices. Namely, that your wife’s ability to forge her own destiny is severely limited, if not over completely after having your kids.

Choices have consequences. These women chose motherhood, they have to live with the consequences. What doesn't help women is feminism telling them that they can have it all. It turns out you can't and women end up getting blindsided by this.

Men can divorce and easily make second and third families, which they do, and then have even less resources to help their ex take care of their kids, if they ever really had resources at all.

Women are human beings, men are human doings. You basically just admitted that all men are good for to you is resources for women and their children.

Women rarely “get half” , 90% of the time the man has no interest in being the custodial parent.

Both of those are lies. If you want to have an honest debate stop lying.

Men see children as a burden, but want women to see them as a gift.

Oh so men don't love their own children? That is the dumbest fucking thing I have read all day.

Women more often have to sacrifice their wants and needs for their children’s and husbands wants and needs, and that can be anything from career to day to day lifestyle choice.

How dare those husbands expect their wives to not fuck around and care for their children!

It makes it all the more infuriating when your husband starts bitching about minor shit you ask him to do like pick up after himself and checking out at things he doesn’t find “interesting”. Or when your ex husband is bitching about child support. Dropping off a check every month is really the least men can do. AND MOST OF YOU CANNOT EVEN DO THAT, much less be active and involved parents on a daily basis.

You cunts don't do shit. Men are least working and providing food and shelter for their families. Today's modern wahmyn don't cook, don't clean, won't parent their kids, and just sit around getting drunk and cheating on their husbands while they are working their asses off to provide for their families. And then they either initiate a divorce or are caught cheating (most divorces are initiated by women and women have far greater numbers of sexual partners than men) and the man loses his family and has to fucking pay money to support the cheating cunt who ruined his life under threat of jail.

What is the point of a man moving his career forward if the state is just going to take over half his paycheck and give it to some cunt who stole his kids from him?

Whisper · 2018-06-20T23:27:07+00:00

So don't have kids.

Please.

daveofmars · 2018-06-20T23:27:17+00:00

Men see children as a burden, but want women to see them as a gift.

Your ability to peddle that quantity of bullshit with such stellar confidence would put Jordan Belfort to shame.

I, for one, am a man who is greatly looking forward to children, and I'm sure you'd find many a mother who think their children are a burden.

Every time I see a post from you, Jammerly1, it's always some low-effort thesis resting on resentful and biased generalizations. I don't think you're getting much from this sub and you should either tighten your game or go elsewhere, because if the upvote % on this post is any indication, your "insight" isn't all that welcome.

[deleted] · 2018-06-21T14:58:02+00:00

HAHAHAHAHA I'm dead

brownman83 · 2018-06-19T17:58:21+00:00

You have no idea what you're talking about. You are just spewing none sense.

MGTOWManofMystery · 2018-06-19T21:24:16+00:00

This begs the question - why would any sane person not addled by hormones, have children in this day and age? Especially in the West.

WilNotJr · 2018-06-20T01:44:32+00:00

Then women should learn how to maintain their marriages instead of filing for most of the divorces.

Barely-moral · 2018-06-19T17:29:05+00:00

Let's say the woman is a SAHM. She would be doing the job of -a cook (Untrained, no qualifications asked) -a nanny (a job that requires no qualifications since we let teenagers babysit) -a janitor/cleaning staff (a job that requires no qualifications) -an errand boy/girl (again, no qualifications) -a surrogate mother while she is pregnant (so we can put a monetary value on her pregnancy)

Let's say for the sake of argument that she works 16hs a day (being generous but it is possible) and divide the time equally between those "jobs" that she actually decided to take when she decided to be a SAHM.

Take the average pay per hour for those jobs. Multiply by the time she was married to him. Deduce the ammount of money that she gets in food, rent, gifts, trips etc.

That final number is exactly how much she is worth and how much she should get in case of a divorce. Hell, add more jobs to the list if you feel like it but most jobs a SAHM do are low skill, low pay jobs that could be done by anyone.

The most valuable job a woman can do around the house (If we are speaking about money) is without a doubt, being a whore. And if a woman expects to be valued by this standard she should act like one towards his husband. No excuses.

Biology is unfair. The market isn't.

ThunderStruck115 · 2018-06-22T12:48:08+00:00

Rape cases are actually mostly unfair toen actually.

LethalLinguistics · 2018-06-23T21:44:41+00:00

If you feel so strongly that kids restrict your career and mental health don't have kids. You shouldve realized this by now. Actually this is not fact, its your opinion.

Esk1mOz4mb1k · 2018-06-19T22:50:26+00:00

Men see children as burden

This is the most stupid stereotypical shit I've read in a while. You don't know what you're talking about and probably generalize from a miserable experience of your own.

Your credibility has dropped to 0.

poppy_blu · 2018-06-20T01:47:01+00:00

Well done Jammerly.

The only thing that keeps me from being depressed about the shit I read by men on this sub is to remember that PPD and Reddit in general doesn’t represent the average man. Not by a long shot. They have a very transactional view of sex and relationships — “she gives her youth and beauty to man,” “she exchanges sex for committment,” “she trades attraction for stability” — because when it comes right down to it they just weren’t born with the people gene. I don’t know how else to say it. They don’t understand people, they aren’t capable of empathy or bonding, they are scared shitless of emotion and vulnerability, and they think other people’s time, attention and respect are things they should be able to buy or steal through learning manipulative tricks rather than earning it. And most of all they think the problem is everyone else and not them.

So while your post is well intentioned, the ones who need to hear it the most won’t.

Title	Divorce Laws are Mostly Unfair to Women, Actually.
Author	Jammerly1
Upvotes	0
Comments	444
Date	June 19, 2018 3:25 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8s9q4i/divorce_laws_are_mostly_unfair_to_women_actually/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/divorce-laws-are-mostly-unfair-to-women-actually.261860 https://theredarchive.com/post/261860

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