Kentucky lawmaker’s bill forces men to get note from wives before purchasing Viagra

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I don't see how that isn't self evident.

Because it's a point-scoring generalisation, not an actual truth.

The majority of those with a pro-life view being hypocrites (or using religious rather than secular morality in their reasoning) is not an actual valid argument against a pro-life position, it's just a dumb circlejerk.

I'm from Ireland, abortion is illegal here (it's a short plane/boat ride away - out of sight, out of mind). There used to be a very powerful socially conservative religious lobby, but in terms of things like welfare/healthcare/3rd level education etc. there's never been a "religious right" like there is in the US, not that Ireland is amazing at these things, just in line with the rest of western Europe (which is "left" by American standards).

I find it hard to imagine that a sizeable chunk of pro-life Americans aren't the same as pro-life people here, with some even being generally socially liberal too. I know quite a few people who voted yes for gay marriage who would vote no for abortion.

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Not necessarily, but their 'argument' is based entirely on personal beliefs based around religion, which, in a government which supposedly is based around the separation of church and state, really shouldn't have much standing.

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Note: The vast majority of these links from reputable scientific journals, with peer-reviewed research.

1: Women prefer intact penises. And elsewhere you can find men do as well!

Source: http://www.healthcentral.com/drdean/408/60750.html

http://www.cirp.org/library/anatomy/ohara/

2: Masturbation feels better.

Source: http://www.cirp.org/pages/anat/

3: Circumcision significantly reduces sensitivity.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1464-410X.2006.06685.x/epdf

http://www.livescience.com/1624-study-circumcision-removes-sensitive-parts.html

4: Despite the reduced sensitivity, there is no change to lasting longer during sex.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9 A6D724B4E3606446784E.d03t01

5: Cut men have a more difficult time fapping.

Source: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1743-6109.2005.00070.x/abstract;jsessionid=E233A9E106A9

Which was the reason it was promoted in the USA in the first place.

http://english.pravda.ru/science/health/27-03-2006/77873-circumcision-0/

6: Circumcision increases risk of erectile dysfunctions.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14979200&dopt= Abstract|

7: If too much skin is removed in circumcision, it can make the penis smaller since the dong needs some skin to expand during an erection:

http://www.altermd.com/Penis%20and%20Scrotal%20Surgery/buried_penis.htm

http://www.drgreene.com/azguide/inconspicuous-penis

8: Circumcision does not lower the risk of AIDS.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22096758/

9: Circumcision is more hygienic. Who the heck doesn't clean their penis? It's a three second job you do when you shower so this is not a valid argument. Women produce 10 times as much smegma as men - so it's OK to amputate an infant girls' labia lips so she doesn't have to wash them??

10: Circumcised foreskin sold to cosmetic manufacturers for profit:

http://voices.yahoo.com/human-foreskins-big-business-cosmetics-201840.html

11: Erectile dysfunction 4.5 times more likely to occur if you're circumcised

http://www.thewholenetwork.org/14/post/2011/08/does-circumcision-cause-erectile-dysfunction.html etc

12: Stanford's school of medicine list of circumcision complications (including infection, haemorraging, skin-bridging, phimosis, amputation and death):

http://newborns.stanford.edu/CircComplications.html

13: Cut infants get long-term changes in pain response from the trauma of being circumcised

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

14: Circumcision decreases penile sensitivity

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

15: Circumcision associated with sexual difficulties

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

16: Circumcision linked to alexithymia

http://www.mensstudies.com/content/2772r13175400432/?p=a7068101fbdd48819f10dd04dc1e19fb&pi=4

17: The exaggeration of the benefits of circumcision in regards to HIV/AIDS transmission

http://jme.bmj.com/content/36/12/798.abstract

18: Circumcision/HIV claims are based on insufficient evidence

http://www.4eric.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/MC.pdf

19: There is no case for the widespread implementation of circumcision as a preventative measure to stop transmission of AIDS/HIV

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1753-6405.2011.00761.x/full

20: Circumcision decreases sexual pleasure

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

21: Circumcision decreases efficiency of nerve response in the glans of the penis

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

22: Circumcision policy is influenced by psychosocial factors rather than alleged health benefits

http://www.circumcision.org/policy.htm

23: Circumcision linked to pain, trauma, and psychosexual sequelae

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/boyle6/

24: Circumcision results in significant loss of erogenous tissue

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8800902

25: Circumcision has negligible benefit

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9091693

26: Neonatal circumcision linked to pain and trauma

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9057731

27: Circumcision may lead to need for increased care and medical attention in the first 3 years of life

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9393302

28: Circumcision linked to psychological trauma

http://www.cirp.org/library/psych/goldman1/

29: Circumcision may lead to abnormal brain development and subsequent deviations in behaviour

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10657682

30: CONCLUSIONS: This study confirms the importance of the foreskin for penile sensitivity, overall sexual satisfaction, and penile functioning: Furthermore, this study shows that a higher percentage of circumcised men experience discomfort or pain and unusual sensations as compared with the uncircumcised population.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23374102?dopt=Abstract

31: CONCLUSIONS: Circumcision was associated with frequent orgasm difficulties in Danish men and with a range of frequent sexual difficulties in women, notably orgasm difficulties, dyspareunia and a sense of incomplete sexual needs fulfilment.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21672947

32: CONCLUSION: There was a decrease in masturbatory pleasure and sexual enjoyment after circumcision, indicating that adult circumcision adversely affects sexual function in many men, possibly because of complications of the surgery and a loss of nerve endings.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17155977

33: CONCLUSIONS: The glans of the circumcised penis is less sensitive to fine touch than the glans of the uncircumcised penis. The transitional region from the external to the internal prepuce is the most sensitive region of the uncircumcised penis and more sensitive than the most sensitive region of the circumcised penis. Circumcision ablates the most sensitive parts of the penis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17378847

Edit : thus was put together by a fellow MRA and I copied and pasted it for you

[–]Funcuz 2 points3 points4 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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It has nothing to do with abortion at its base. I don't care either way really.

What I care about is person freedom and health. The argument against abortions is based on religion, a personal opinion on an imaginary friend, not on any rational thought.

The argument against abortion on a medical side, the health of the woman, is always ignored. If a woman is going to die because she can't have an abortion, that living person has a right to save themselves.

This could be about smoking joints, drinking beer, going sky diving, or anything else that is none of anyone else's fucking concern.

The fact that they try to argue against abortion and yet don't want to do anything to prevent them, at least nothing that has been proven to work, just shows how little merit they have. The fact that they don't want to help the child (or family) after the child is forced to be born shows that the issue had nothing to do with caring or trying to help, but about their imaginary friend telling them to be assholes for the sake of being assholes.

Don't have an abortion that kills a fetus, let that fetus be born and then slowly kill it. Yeah, that's real fucking humane.

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[+]theJigmeister points 9 years ago [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

I find this claim of needing a judge, county clerk, and 5 months to buy a gun dubious. Unless you were buying a Browning machine gun or needed to expunge some felonies first or something in which case that's perfectly reasonable.

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any medical procedure has risks. Really, if someone wants a certain medical procedure done, and they have consulted a medical professional who is able to adequately educate them about risks, complications, etc., then it's kind of redundant and illogical to force them to consult with an organization that's almost unilaterally opposed to that medical procedure.

How would the doctor be against it? It's literally just a consultation, they didn't say they would need to go a Christian doctor at the RNC headquarters.

In the case of abortions, at the very least, it makes the process unnessarily complicated and beaurocratic, and at most (and this happens a lot) it causes unnecessary psychological distress for the patient, who's almost definitely already experiencing significant amounts of that.

That distress will be infinitely higher when they realize they'll never have children again because you are literally scraping off the wall of the uterus.

[–]NotMyProblemWoman1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How would the doctor be against it? It's literally just a consultation...

Well yes, it's a consultation from an organization that has considerable bias, which could lead to a patient ultimately making a choice that isn't right for them. Any good doctor wouldn't be against seeking second opinions, but any good doctor would be against being forced to consult with an organization that doesn't strictly adhere to scientific principles and scientific ways of looking at medicine.

...they didn't say they would need to go a Christian doctor at the RNC headquarters.

I'm well aware, my point still stands.

That distress will be infinitely higher when they realize they'll never have children again because you are literally scraping off the wall of the uterus.

Source, and specifically source on uterus scraping causing infertility? I'm pretty sure I've actually never heard of this phenomenon before right now, which makes me suspect that it happens at pretty negligible rates.

[–][deleted]2 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well yes, it's a consultation from an organization that has considerable bias, which could lead to a patient ultimately making a choice that isn't right for them. Any good doctor wouldn't be against seeking second opinions, but any good doctor would be against being forced to consult with an organization that doesn't strictly adhere to scientific principles and scientific ways of looking at medicine.

There is no organization doing this, it's just a doctor's consultation.

I'm well aware, my point still stands.

No, it doesn't. If the bill states simply "you must go to a doctor" then the 'point' that they must go to an organization ideologically opposed to abortion is just wrong.

Source,

I didn't realize that people who wanted children but can't have them were totally okay with it.

and specifically source on uterus scraping causing infertility? I'm pretty sure I've actually never heard of this phenomenon before right now, which makes me suspect that it happens at pretty negligible rates.

Anyone who knows anything about the procedure knows what will occur.

The procedure entails scraping the undeveloped fetus off of the uterine wall. This can cause sterilization as later eggs no longer have the protective lining to nest in and will subsequently not fertilize because it's impossible. This is why most doctors worth their salt will never suggest abortion as a good solution to anything except as a last resort.

[–]NotMyProblemWoman1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

...then the 'point' that they must go to an organization ideologically opposed to abortion is just wrong.

Oh ok, it appears I misunderstood the original post I replied to a great deal. I was under the impression, due to the context of the post and due to how the ideas proposed in the post usually play out where I live, that Pro-Familia was a pro life organization. My apologies, I was totally, completely in the wrong there.

I didn't realize that people who wanted children but can't have them were totally okay with it.

I was talking about a source for the phenomenon of sterilization in regards to the procedure you mentioned, but I was a bit too ambiguous in my phrasing. You didn't need to respond with condescension over a simple misunderstanding of phrasing. I'm totally down for having a level headed discussion with you, you don't need to act like that.

The procedure entails scraping the undeveloped fetus off of the uterine wall. This can cause sterilization as later eggs no longer have the protective lining to nest in and will subsequently not fertilize because it's impossible. This is why most doctors worth their salt will never suggest abortion as a good solution to anything except as a last resort.

Thanks for the explanation (really, I'm not extremely well informed on this topic, as shown earlier), but do you have a source for those claims, and do you have a source that shows this is happening at more than just negligible rates?

[–][deleted]1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

You didn't need to respond with condescension over a simple misunderstanding of phrasing. I'm totally down for having a level headed discussion with you, you don't need to act like that.

I did that mainly because you said "Source, and specifically source on uterus scraping", which comes across as two. I thought it silly that you would need a source on women being distraught about being sterile. I too like level headed discussion, but when something like that comes up I think it fairly okay to condescend seeing as it's a silly question, though you didn't mean it.

Thanks for the explanation (really, I'm not extremely well informed on this topic, as shown earlier), but do you have a source for those claims, and do you have a source that shows this is happening at more than just negligible rates?

Not much actually exists because it's not actually a well looked at topic (possibly owing to the lack of political will to do so. I've heard many organizations, especially feminist ones, espouse abortion as being risk free simply because it's easy to do so for their goals), but there are [case studies.] (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1154444/).

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[–]3MillionIllegalVotes1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

In 2016, America has 11.1 million unauthorized/illegal immigrants.

Of those, 3.1 million live in states with ID requirements to vote (AZ/GA/KA/KS/IN/MS/ND/OH/TN/TX/WI), which leaves 8.0 million possible unauthorized adult voters.

Of those, 12.6% are unauthorized children, which leaves 7.0 million possible unauthorized adult voters.

Let's assume (as Trump does) that 100% voted Clinton and 0% had rejected ballots.)

Therefore, according to Trump, between 42.9% and 71.4% of unauthorized adults -- who live in utter fear that authorities will notice them -- registered and voted fraudulently. (Whereas just 58% of Americans voted.) And not a single one was reported for doing so: there were just four verified cases of voter fraud this election -- three of them for Trump.

And perhaps more importantly: After orchestrating the illegal votes of 3-5 million adults, Democrats forgot to put them in Wisconsin, Michigan, or Pennsylvania.

TLDR: 3-5 million illegal votes sounds really plausible, Mr. Trump.

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[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (55 children) | Copy Link

What other medical procedures require by law a 24-72 hour waiting period between consulting a doctor and having the procedure performed?

[+]somelikeitinthetwat points 9 years ago [recovered] (13 children) | Copy Link

Vasectomies have a 30 day waiting period by law and you cannot get it unless you're 21 and older.

[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (12 children) | Copy Link

Thank you for providing an example. There isn't a shrinking window of opportunity to obtain a vasectomy in the first place, but I didn't know that waiting periods were imposed by law in other states.

[+]somelikeitinthetwat points 9 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

shrinking window of opportunity to obtain a vasectomy in the first place

The shrinking window of opportunity, unless you're an absolute moron, is a pretty large one. If you don't want kids, you should be on birth control. If something went wrong, you should get Plan B. If after all this, you still miss your period (which should happen around 2 weeks after the risky sex), you should immediately investigate why and if pregnant you should terminate. That would leave you a window of about 20 weeks to get an abortion.

[–]Tritonssecret 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[+]somelikeitinthetwat points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Here too, which I am OK with, no one should be forced to do something that is against their conscience. Women just assume it never happens to men though.

[–]Tritonssecret-1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

The shrinking window of opportunity, unless you're an absolute moron, is a pretty large one.

That depends on the state. While I was stationed in Arkansas, they passed a law banning abortion after 8 weeks gestation.

[+]somelikeitinthetwat points 9 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

While I was stationed in Arkansas, they passed a law banning abortion after 8 weeks gestation.

You have 22 weeks to get an abortion in Arkansas.

Is there a point you're trying to make or are you just playing a game of spewing alternative facts?

[–]AlternativFacts1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AndaliteBandit1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tritonssecret 7 points8 points9 points 9 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

Actually, pretty much all of them will have some kind of waiting period built in because you need to book in to get the procedure.

However if you are looking to try to prove how men don't have to put up with this I'll refer you to the below document.

http://www.nhs.uk/conditions/contraception-guide/pages/vasectomy-male-sterilisation.aspx

To make it clear, a vasectomy can be done quite quickly and easily in a GP surgery. Much like getting a mole removed. It is also reasonably easy to reverse. What you will find is no doctor will perform this on a first appointment. My brother had to have two appointments before it was even booked in.

This is not to make access to this type of birth control harder, or more expensive. It's too be sure that the patient fully understands the implications of the procedure and is not making a rash decision.

[–]Seicair 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Tritonssecret -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]PollywogJog points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Note that these mandatory waiting periods are even imposed on women who have been referred to an abortion clinic for a D&C after miscarrying.

She must wait a day or three so that she can think long and hard about whether or not she wants to keep a dead fetus inside of her.

[–]Tritonssecret 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Actually, pretty much all of them will have some kind of waiting period built in

But not mandated by law.

This is not to make access to this type of birth control harder, or more expensive. It's too be sure that the patient fully understands the implications of the procedure and is not making a rash decision.

Perhaps the legislators behind these mandatory waiting periods genuinely had good intentions this time. However, you can see where that would be hard to believe when they are also behind bills mandating the size of janitor closets, or fetal heartbeat bills that ban abortion as early as 6 weeks gestation (1-2 weeks after the missed period, if she's lucky). They therefore have become the wolf who cried, "Women's health bill."

[–]Tritonssecret -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

So what? You could make every non emergency operation have a 72 hour wait tomorrow, it won't stop any operation because many people have been waiting for that amount of time (and much more) already.

perhaps the legislators behind these mandatory waiting periods genuinely had good intentions this time.

I'm fairly sure they do as this waiting period will do more to protect women. If they are sure they want the abortion then it will happen. If they are having a fear reaction then that thinking time might change their mind, and if they are being coerced it might mean they have a chance to get help. It's impossible to unabort a baby.

If you are unhappy that legislation such as the size of a janitors closet (seriously?) is being passed then first of all stop selecting fucking idiots when you vote, second when you feel strongly about a subject that directly affects you then let your elected officials know, third don't support stupid ideas that don't affect you.

[–]FeierInMeinHose 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (27 children) | Copy Link

Then it sounds like it never needed to be mandated by law.

[–]Tritonssecret 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (26 children) | Copy Link

[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (25 children) | Copy Link

The doctor could make you wait six weeks if they wanted to

Did that actually happen to women attempting to obtain an abortion before the mandatory waiting periods were enforced? Do you have a link?

[–]Tritonssecret 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (24 children) | Copy Link

No I don't. I would expect that no doctor would be foolish enough to admit to any survey that they purposefully denied a procedure to a patient. The point is that if you don't set a period of time then it can be a case of wait until the doctors decide to do it. In some cases this will be "think it over, I'm going to lunch, see you in half an hour" and others could be longer because the doctor doesn't agree that the abortion should happen.

The rules aren't intentionally designed to humiliate anyone, the are supposed to do the following

1) ensure that the patient has been given the information needed to make an informed decision

2) ensure the patient has had a reasonable amount of time to consider that information

3) provide a clear deadline for when the patient cam expect their wishes to be carried out.

Can you point out exactly where it does not do the above?

[–]AndaliteBandit1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Tritonssecret1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]AndaliteBandit1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because most procedures that can be done in a couple of hours are simple and will not require reversing.

As simple as taking a pill and promptly being sent home? Because that's how an increasing number of abortions are performed these days, and even moreso outside of the US. It's how the majority of abortions are performed in England & Wales, the vast majority in Scotland and Sweden.

This is a good idea. Maybe then transgender people seeking surgery won't have to wait years.

No, they would still wait a substantial amount of time as they undergo hormonal therapy first.

That said, why do you believe that these legally mandated waiting periods are the maximum that can be imposed, rather than the minimum?

Can you tell me how often you get an abortion instead of using birth control?

Sure, the answer to that is never. The nationwide rate of unplanned pregnancies has been decreasing substantially for nearly a decade, while the nationwide rate of teen pregnancies has been steadily declining for decades. That's even in spite of the states that continue to have the highest rates, that curiously enough also mandate abstinence-only sex ed, if the teaching of sex ed is required at all.

Can you tell me why you felt the urge to ask?

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[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

That sounds more like an argument in favor of overturning Roe v Wade, rather than an argument for women's health.

[–]user1492 -4 points-3 points-2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]iKILLcarrots 3 points4 points5 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

That's actually a thing happening places, with support even. In my state of Oklahoma. This is an actual fucking issue. Like, do you not understand the whole abortion conversation? People are trying to put laws in place to dictate what cells you have to carry in your body and what biological functions you have to do. That's not okay.

This is a bill intended to point out that thr reproductive rights conversations in our politics are not including the idea that women are people. That's a real issue that everyone should fight for, just like everyone should fight against circumcisions, male selective service enrollment, etc. Because any slight against some one's autonomy and freedom is a slight against all of us.

Willful ignorance is the downfall of every movement, if you seriously want to build a better future quit allowing yourself to be divided. I agree with a lot of what the MRA wants to achieve, the concepts of toxic masculinity and male disposability are things I'd change in an instant if I could, but nothing changes when you can't even be fucked to understand what is happening with the other half of the god damn conversation.

[–]just_zhis_guy 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]T_Sam 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

I'm definitely on the same page when it comes to fathers having rights in event of adoption. In fact, I didn't realize that it wasn't the default everywhere.

Could you explain to me what you mean by "last date" for abortion? I don't understand what you mean, although I will say that I'm not sure there's a way to compromise when there's a disagreement on whether to have an abortion. One way or another, someone is forced into a situation that that person would have otherwise opted out of. Being financially responsible for a child you didn't want sucks, but so does pregnancy, abortion, and birth.

It's a woman's right to have an abortion or carry a pregnancy to term. The resulting child has a right to financial support from both parents. Some would argue that every fetus has a right to be born regardless of what the woman wants. I'm not sure there's a solution to be found that doesn't infringe upon someone else's rights.

[–]FastFourierTerraform 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

Could you explain to me what you mean by "last date" for abortion?

Sure. Most compromise solutions on the abortion debate involve setting a (fairly early) date by which the woman must decide to abort or not (with obvious exceptions for edge cases). If there's no medical reason to abort and the child's father does not want the abortion to happen and is willing to care for and be responsible for the child, then it makes sense to me that the "decision date" should be sooner. I.e., there is a distinction between "this is an unwanted child" and "there is a loving parent that wants this child."

I mostly pose this as an alternative to financial abortion. My ideal solution is that parenthood is a strictly opt-in process. If a man doesn't want to be a parent, he declares that intention (typically within a few days of learning about the pregnancy), and it's up to the woman to abort or raise it by herself. If a woman doesn't want to be a parent, then she can abort.

The current way of doing things is doubly asymmetric. Men can be forced into parenthood against their will, AND they can have their parental rights unilaterally taken away by women. I figure that biology forces there to be one asymmetry by the nature of things. Adding another one is just inequality. So, either don't don't take away parental rights for men, or don't force parental responsibility; choose one.

[–]T_Sam 1 point2 points3 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

I'm not sure how moving the abortion date up benefits a man who would like to keep the child. If anything, I'd imagine it'd increase pressure to get the abortion before it's too late, especially in the states that require women to jump through hoops to have one.

There are some things about your opt-in plan that make me uncomfortable. It seems to treat abortion as a simple procedure like getting a tooth pulled when for some women it's an incredibly difficult experience physically and emotionally. For vulnerable ones, like women in abusive relationships and teens/college students, they could be pressured to fold to the pressure to abort because being a single mother is very difficult. What if she chooses adoption? Would the father be responsible to cover a share of medical bills or is he opting out of that too? How would that effect sexual practices and relationships between men and women? What effects would it have on birth control, condom use, and STDs? Would it increase abortions? Would it increase the need for states to provide aid? What would be the long term effects?

As for what you wrote about taking away parental rights from men, I assume that you mean wrongfully taking rights away. After all, there's thirty one states that allow rapists rights to children that are products of rapes. There are women who have no business taking care of a fish for a weekend who never lose custody of their kids.

Personally, I believe unless there is an issue of safety or wellbeing to the child, custody should be automatically 50/50. In cases where there's a question of ability, the case should go before a judge but in a blind manner. The case would be heard as parent A claims parent B abused the child in this way instead of mother versus father. False accusations and parental alienation should be treated just as seriously as abuse accusations and investigated. In the end, it's the court that comes to a final decision of whether to terminate rights, and I think that's an important distinction to make.

[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]T_Sam 4 points5 points6 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

More or less. The bill was pretty much shelved without consideration, but the gist was that a woman would have to receive written permission from the father of the child. She would also have to submit his name to her doctor, which would allow him another opportunity to block the abortion while paternity was established. One lawmaker behind the bill said that women are hosts and that if they get pregnant, it's because they are irresponsible because they know sex can cause pregnancy and did not take enough precautions. I think my favorite part was when he said, "I understand they feel like it's their body."

I hope I'm doing this right, because I don't really know how to link properly but here's an article if you'd like to read it. I hope the source is acceptable for you. I tried to find something that wouldn't be too biased, but it's difficult sometimes.

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[–]tallwheel 0 points1 point2 points 9 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

Yeah, you're right. That's a good point.

But (devil's advocate) on the other hand, one is a meme and one is a bill. Sure, the creator of neither the meme nor the bill may have actually wanted any of the things listed to come to pass, but what if the bill somehow actually got support and managed to pass or come close to passing? A meme has a 0% chance of doing that.

And, I would argue, that the meme in question was actually presenting far closer equivalents to issues that men actually face. Whereas this bill is presenting a bit of a false equivalence. There is currently no libido pill for women which requires a husband's consent in order to obtain. Abortion and viagra are not the same thing.

But, having said all that, you're right. They're kind of similar. Not sure I am necessarily a hypocrite for thinking the meme was clever, and that this bill is a bit arrogant and disrespectful. If the equivalence were closer, I can assure you I would have a similar view toward both... but they are a bit different.

[–]wrekd1 point 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[+]silverwolfer points 9 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

They are showing the hypocrites of the religious right who do every trick they can to go around roe vs wade

[–]morthond 10 points11 points12 points 9 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[+]silverwolfer points 9 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

This isn't a law, this is a protest bill.

Not meant to pass, meant to stir conversation , and it succeded.

[–]tallwheel 6 points7 points8 points 9 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[+]dungone points 9 years ago* [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

It succeeded in making feminists sound stupid and entitled. I don't know how anyone things that this will sway the anti-choice crowd from trying to undermine Roe vs Wade.

[+]silverwolfer points 9 years ago* [recovered] (4 children) | Copy Link

That is your opinion, others think this is a hilarious comparison.

Not all effects are 100% positive.

[–]dungone 5 points6 points7 points 9 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[+]silverwolfer points 9 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Umm no. That is like saying the same folks who are pushed away from this think woman should still be slaves.

Why do you leap to such extereme ends?

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[+]AndaliteBandit points 9 years ago [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Don't compare someone's unwanted disorder to a quality of life choice a healthy person makes so that their body doesn't work as normal.

Birth control is prescribed for a variety of unwanted disorders.

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bill requiring women to consult with a doctor at least 24 hours before an abortion

In the meantime, getting a vasectomy in NY state not only requires a doctor's consultation but also requires you to wait 30 days. If only menz were inconvenienced by laws like women!

[–]k9centipede -1 points0 points1 point 9 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[+]somelikeitinthetwat points 9 years ago [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

Oh no, I cannot get an abortion as easy as buying a bigmac, what am I going to do?!?

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“This is about family values,” she added.

oh FFS America still with this shit ?

Mazian told Fox affiliate WDRB that House Bill 396 would also require that someone seeking Viagra, Cialis, Levitra or Avanafil “make a sworn statement with his hand on a Bible that he will only use a prescription for a drug for erectile dysfunction when having sexual relations with his current spouse.”

o.O

“We are very ‘family values’ in the Kentucky General Assembly — they are all awash in Christian family values, so that’s why I put that part in there that [erectile pills] can only be used in a marital relationship,” she said.

Marzian admitted to the station that her bill is more symbolic than serious and she doesn’t expect it to receive much support. And yet, she told the Courier-Journal, she isn’t done introducing provocative proposals.

Why is this crackpot allowed to have any authority? She's treating her job like a playground, just fucking with people.

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Marzian admitted to the station that her bill is more symbolic than serious and she doesn’t expect it to receive much support.

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Again, that's a general trend. Women are not all identical, and yes, some are very capable of separating their emotion from the task at hand. I don't believe that study had a sample size of 3.6 billion. Even the article acknowledges that this is a trend.

women are more likely to see the big-picture, have stronger emotions, and rely on their intuition for decision-making

Women’s brains favor more emotional activity

To favor one thing is not the same as being incapable of the alternative, especially when dealing with 3.5 billion different people.

Men generally focus on one task

Women tend to absorb more information

Men tend to deal with stress much more easily than women

Men tend to have better logic skills than women

Every part of that article that you you claim "proves" women are incapable of leadership specifically includes wording to acknowledge that there are exceptions to the rule. Further, the very article study you cite completely disagrees with your conclusion about women being bad leaders.

Relying primarily on the strength of just one gender as leaders can result in an imbalance of perspectives and ideas.

So you completely failed to grasp the point of the article, which ironically the article calls out as a trait of men.

while women exhibit generally better language skills than men.

And boy, did you completely whiff on the nuances of the language in this article. Next time you cite an article to prove a point, read it and understand it first.

[–]Prometheus4440 points 9 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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Title	Kentucky lawmaker’s bill forces men to get note from wives before purchasing Viagra
Author	zeroflexflyer
Upvotes	1273
Comments	336
Date	February 20, 2017 3:36 PM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/5v55kk/kentucky_lawmakers_bill_forces_men_to_get_note/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/kentucky-lawmakers-bill-forces-men-to-get-note.931586 https://theredarchive.com/post/931586

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