AMA- typical feminist

EvilPundit · 2016-02-07T05:10:58+00:00

I've stickied this post because there's a lot of good discussion in the comments.

xynomaster · 2016-02-06T19:14:01+00:00

There are three main issues that I have that I feel make me an MRA. I'd be interested in your opinion on them.

Selective service - you've linked to a discussion on this here, but I've seen many women / feminists argue that women shouldn't be required to register until they have equal rights in the rest of society. How do you feel about this argument?
Refugees / aid - Canada's prime minister is renowned for his views on gender equality, and yet has still limited his refugee program to women and children, turning away widowed men and orphaned teenage boys on the grounds that they are not vulnerable enough. The UN typically follows this procedure as well. I've always been confused about the definition of "vulnerable" though, because men and boys are generally far more likely to be killed in conflict zones than women and girls. How do you justify this assertion that women are more vulnerable than men and consequentially that we should provide aid to women first in these situations?
Rape / sexual abuse / domestic violence against men. From what I've seen, feminists tend to be supportive of male victims. However, feminists also tend to support removing prisons for women and instead resorting to community sentences or home detention. This means, though, that in cases where men (usually, boys) are raped, abused, or molested by women, these women are guaranteed to receive extremely lenient community sentences without a chance of serving jail time. How do you reconcile a need to give victims justice and deter sex crimes while also arguing that a woman convicted of any crime, including rape, should receive only community service?

Thanks!

TailorMade808 · 2016-02-07T11:15:44+00:00

Do you think an MRA would even be allowed to set up an AMA in r/ feminism?

MeyRights · 2016-02-07T12:44:01+00:00

I've read all your comments. And let me tell you, you are the feminist with the extremist views. Of course not the most extreme, but extreme enough.

You have no understanding of the male perspective and you believe in patriarchy. That alone makes it probably impossible to have any further discussion with you.

Many MRA's have been feminists before. They've been raised by a feminist mother and together with a feminist sister. They've experienced what it means, that their perspective is dangerous or at least wrong. They've been told, that what they bring to the table as a man is not good enough. They've fulfiled every demand feminists brought up. And when they've grown up, feminists told them that still isn't good enough. That was the moment for many to start questioning feminism. They've lived the feminist perspective, proofed it wrong as an ideology for themselfs and started asking, what about me? You've probably lived through the same indoctrination, you're still a feminist because you can still ask the question what about me, and feminism gives you an answer. But not for men.

If you're represanting the typical feminist, I would say i am more then ever against feminism.

My question to you is, what evidence would you accept, that you would say, the theory of female oppression is wrong?

wicknest · 2016-02-06T21:11:31+00:00

i think in certain ways the table has tipped too far in favor of women. one example being that women receive 30% less of a mans jail sentence for the same crime. thoughts?

Also, the wage gap is a myth. Its not the 77cents to every mans dollar, but the only times that can be observed is when the hours worked is not equal. So say you have a female with a job filing documents, working from home on her own time (lets say 30 hours a week). You compare your earnings to her male coworker who is the same age doing the same exact job. "Im making less for doing the same job", and that may be the case at first glance until you take into acccount that, although hes doing the same job, he is working 40 hours a week, commuting to the office every morning while she works 30 hours a week in her pajamas on her couch.

So as its been said before, if women really were still paid 3/4 of men for the same work, why havent companies started exclusively hiring women to save money?

A wage gap is more like 98cents for every dollar. Those missing cents are contributed to things that are exclusive to female workers such as maternity leave. In some cases, and i know from personal experience that ive actually been paid less for a more demanding job than my female coworkers. but i know its because they had an extra 2+ years with the same company so it didnt bother me.

manicmonkeys · 2016-02-06T20:29:58+00:00

In your opinion, what are some rights/ privileges men have, that women don't have (here in America)?

makerboost · 2016-02-06T18:53:41+00:00

Why do you think all women need to be feminists?

PhilWylie · 2016-02-07T00:10:44+00:00

Why do feminists equate often weak social pressures with not having rights?

Zoidbergluver · 2016-02-07T06:43:10+00:00

"The media likes to sensationalize stories that fit their agenda and turn feminists into ugly, man-hating lesbians"

Don't you think blaming the media for the harms that certain feminists do is still deflecting away from a very serious problem within your movement?

-Mary Koss erasing male victims of sexual abuse

-N.O.W. opposing Shared Parenting

-The Duluth Model of Domestic Violence

-Making a scientist cry and forcing him to apologize for wearing a shirt

-Ruining the career of another scientist for a statement taken completely out of context.

-Taking pictures of men spreading their legs on public transit, dubbing it manspreading, and making it an arrest-able offense.

-Getting two male programmers fired for a "Dongle" joke.

-Taking a man to court for Twitter Harassment because he dared express a contrarian opinion.

I assure you that the Media had no influence on these stories. These actions, in the name of feminism, were taken independently and willingly.

There's another question I want to ask:

Do you, as a feminist, deem it unfair, sexist and dangerous that boys are being told never to hit girls while girls are not taught not to hit boys? I can guarantee there's still a population of girls and women out there still believing they can get away with it and society not even doling out consequences. In addition, anytime a boy, or man, retaliates in self-defense, he's branded a monster. Again, do you think it's unacceptable if we're going for equality between the genders? Same with consent and "Good Lad" classes in the UK for boys but none for the girls.

Also, do you find it unacceptable to tell a man, who has been through some horrendous abuse in his past, that his experiences don't matter compared to women and that he still benefits from his white, male privilege? This, sadly, happened to me. Numerous times. And believe me, it's worse when you're invalidated like that.

Jesus_Shaves_ · 2016-02-06T19:15:56+00:00

For what reason do you see there being a need for feminism? In my opinion it seems as if both sexes are equal in this day and age. Same jobs, same rights and same privileges. I don't intend to say there is no reason, I want your honest opinion.

ghebert001 · 2016-02-06T23:16:32+00:00

What is your opinion of rape culture and the fact that RAINN has stated it does not believe we live in a rape culture, but rather that there is a small percentage of individuals committing these horrible crimes? (loosely paraphrased)
What are your views on men having similar choices to women post-conception to absolve themselves of parental responsibility such as legal paternal surrender?

GenderNeutralLanguag · 2016-02-07T00:17:22+00:00

The problem with talking about feminism is that there are two radically different feminisms that are actually the same thing. There is one feminism that is "everything and anything and all things and nothing and puppydogs and unicorns for everyone!!!!" Everyone is this type of feminist, you've gotta be broken in the head to not like puppydogs and unicorns.

Feminism type 2 is very thinly veiled hateful sexist bigotry.

The big problem is that most feminists, the overwhelming majority of feminists 95% or greater of feminists are type 1 feminists while the overwhelming majority of feminists 80% or greater of feminists with significant institutional power are type 2 feminists.

There can be a great deal of shared ground with feminists like you. No amount of bridge building between MRA and type 1 feminists will change the behaviors of the type 2 feminists.

I say this to help you understand why I and many others are "anti-feminism". It's not that we are anti-equality it that we oppose the sexist bigotry of the feminists with true institutional power. You didn't craft VAWA, the Stop Domestic Violence, but only for the minority of victims with the correct genitalia, Act. You didn't contribute to laws stopping infant genital mutilations, but only for the minority of victims with the correct genitalia. You are not party to the sexism of feminism, and I assume would oppose it if you had the power.

That said, I really do have a question. What version of equality do you use. To my knowledge there are three notable versions of equality and they are largely incompatible.

There is equality of opportunity. This version of equality says outcomes WILL NOT be equal, but opportunity should be. There shouldn't be laws or stigma saying women aren't allowed to study computer science or men shouldn't be homemakers.

There is equality of outcome. This says men and women are the same, any difference in outcome isn't the result of real gender differences, but of discrimination against women.

Equality three is "Every one is equal, but if you judge a fish by her ability to climb a tree she will fail every time"

As you can see these three versions of equality all represent real views of equality, but are incomparable with each other. What version of equality do you subscribe to? Do you have some 4th version that I've not listed?

KrisK_lvin · 2016-02-06T20:33:18+00:00

You describe yourself as a "typical feminist" in contradistinction to "the extremists” - something I consider to be quite an important set of questions therefore is which of the following do you consider to be T (typical) or E (extremist) feminist views?

(Just to give you a heads up, I am deliberately mixing what I at least consider to be a range of positions. Also note that each example has a real world precedent i.e. they are not paranoid fantasies but real claims made by people who self-identify as Feminists)

1) The global population of men should be reduced to 10% as men have proved themselves to be inherently toxic and violent. T / E
2) Gender is a social construct - it is a falsehood that men are naturally stronger than women. T / E
3) Women earn 77c for every $1 a man earns. T / E
4) Women who want to participate in frontline combat duties should be allowed to do so. T / E
5) Society exploits women through their ‘emotional labour’ - that is, unpaid work which requires them to care for children and manage the households on behalf of their spouses. T / E
6) Men consider themselves entitled to the objectification, possession and exploitation of women’s bodies. T / E
7) Western Capitalist societies are structured in such a way as to continually (re)produce the exploitation of women through control over their body image (i.e. women’s insecurities over their physical appearance and appeal to men drives them to spend billions of dollars annually on diet products, cosmetics, cosmetic surgeries and clothing such as high heels, much of which is detrimental to their physical health and well-being) T / E
8) Men need to be given instruction in order to train them not to rape women. T / E
9) Anything less than a 50-50 (or 49-51) split of men to women in Congress/Parliament, in the Boards of Fortune 500 companies, in Engineering Faculty teaching staff is proven evidence of discrimination against women in the workplace. T / E
10) There is no significant difference in the IQ of women or men. T / E
11) All other things being equal, women should always be given primary custody of children in a divorce settlement (not including e.g. if the mother has severe mental, physical or addiction issues). T / E
12) There is an unconscious bias against women among prospective employers and teachers of STEM subjects which means that even when all other things are apparently equal, the applications, work, or test results of women and girls are valued lower than those of men and boys. T / E

MeyRights · 2016-02-07T13:38:16+00:00

Dear Moderate Feminists: You Don't Exist

https://www.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/374ixn/dear_moderate_feminists_you_dont_exist_xpost/

DaNiceguy · 2016-02-07T13:10:45+00:00

We're not buying what you're selling. This horseshit idea that the most privileged creatures ever to walk the earth (ie Western Women) are somehow oppressed needs to die and die hard.

AloysiusC · 2016-02-06T23:00:59+00:00

First of all, thanks for doing this.

Now my questions:

1) Do you believe we live in a "patriarchy" and if so, what is your definition of the term?

2) Do you subscribe to the idea that feminism is just about equality and if so, why would you accept such a gendered term for a label?

3) Would you agree that, in the context of gender, feminists have a huge amount of power relative to MRAs?

4) Since you're a biology major and a women's studies minor, I'm interested if you encountered any contradictory findings between the two fields. For example, gender and sex in women's studies is often ascribed to culture and the role of biology is often completely rejected. If you've encountered such ideas, did you attempt to challenge them in class?

5) Have you attempted to find evidence that men are politically underrepresented relative to women? And if so, what have you found? If you haven't, then why not?

Thx in advance.

Lethn · 2016-02-06T19:44:41+00:00

As it is an issue that drastically affects women both in the middle east and in western civilisation, are you against Islamists trying to impose and spread sharia law in western democracies?

If not, why? Isn't this precisely something that feminists should be fighting against as it is a literal patriarchy and not just something man haters made up one day?

If you are against it, why do you think so many other feminists ignore the issue and paints anybody who criticises and denounces these kinds of teachings as 'Islamaphobic' or 'racist' when they claim to defend women, gays and transexuals who are treated horribly by this religion?

thatlowdowndirty47 · 2016-02-07T15:56:16+00:00

Reading through this thread has made realize the ever elusive and highly spoken about "moderate feminist" in fact does not exist. All of them hold the most ridiculous views and are incapable of having a discourse where their views may need to be looked at and revised.

redditorriot · 2016-02-07T15:59:30+00:00

Thanks for doing this, but your replies are full of the kind of 'nice words' but are ultimately delusional - we have seen this a thousand times before.

My question is this: when are you going to unchain yourself from the feminist label and your women's studies indoctrination?

jimmywiddle · 2016-02-08T01:45:23+00:00

Thanks for doing this, it has proven several things.

There is no such thing as a moderate feminist, because if the views you have portrayed are supposed to be moderate then god help feminism.
You openly admitted that you don't care what others have to say it was never going to change your mind, hence demonstrating bigotry.
On every topic that has been brought up you have constantly only talked about female victims or dismissed / disregarded / belittled / or completely ignored the male side of the issue.
Your answers have been textbook, crib sheet answers which every feminist rolls out when they are quizzed. However as you have stated and demonstrated that you are not interested in learning anything, they are about 50 years old and are obsolete. Claiming western women are oppressed is a laughable concept.

All in all after considering your answers and looking at the evidence (or lack of) I have decided that I am definitely not a feminist. It is hardly any wonder the feminist movement is dying when we see the ridiculousness of what the feminist movement is currently up to and people such as yourself claiming that you are for equality but have such a skewed view on the world.

PotatoScallops · 2016-02-08T08:27:49+00:00

Why is she getting an AMA in here? What makes her view so special, because she has a pair of tits? The precious feminist just HAS to have her opinion forced upon MRA's? The only thing informative about this was yet again a feminist has proven herself to have the IQ of a wet lettuce leaf. Complete waste of time.

A white, middle class, 22 year old American female. Yeah, you're really oppressed like the females in say Nigeria, Iran or Saudi Arabia. That's why feminists are stupid because women in parts of the world really ARE oppressed and these lazy, over privileged and bored middle class western feminists think oppression is being whistled at by men.

Okay then, since you're here. Why do women want "employment equality" but aren't trying to get jobs in construction?

skepticalbipartisan · 2016-02-06T22:13:35+00:00

Can you name some prominent Feminists that you'd consider to be "normal"?

oneiorosgripwontstfu · 2016-02-07T11:34:54+00:00

How do you reconcile the use of statistics garnered from Mary Koss's research with the knowledge that she tailored it to avoid garnering statistics on female perpetration of sexual violence?

precisionclear · 2016-02-07T18:30:37+00:00

Anecdotal, In my experience; dating in New York city, the absolutely worst, rude, and most disrespectful women were all vocal feminist, especially with degrees in communication and "women studies".

You can also see this on television interviews where a "sexist male" has a debate with a "feminist", upon trying to bring up male problems, They immediately because condescending and mock men for admitting any problem at all. Feel free to youtube this, I've never seen men not attacked.

Which makes sense; feminism operates under some major assumptions - All women were repressed all throughout history in all societies across the world, Men inherently have a desire to rape and repress women, Men are naturally intimidated and threatened by a "successful woman".

This is an extremely toxic worldview, and it's why you will find most MRA's very suspicious of the "moderate feminist", as by believing what you do, "equally" means "compensation to women at the expense of men that can NEVER be fully paid back."

Egalitarianism and Feminism are not compatible with each other as the former does not operate by demonizing white men.

batf12 · 2016-02-08T13:46:07+00:00

I took a gender studies class in college. In it I learned that women can't have safe spaces because men come in and hijack the conversation. Yet the stickied front page post in the Men's Rights subreddit is a feminist sharing her views. Will you please, please try to imagine with me the fury that we would witness if an MRA had an AMA stickied on the frontpage of /feminism?

MalibuStayZ · 2016-02-07T07:45:45+00:00

I thought an AMA with a typical feminist

The fact that you are willing to discuss in this subreddit means that you're not a typical feminist in my book. (If I say that it's meant as a compliment in case you're wondering) ;)

Jokes aside: I think it's great you're doing that.

HotSauciness · 2016-02-07T18:06:52+00:00

Since you mentioned TwoX: How do you feel about the fact that the feminist moderators there blatantly censor anything remotely critical of feminism? They abuse their power as default mods to push propaganda, all in the name of feminism. Just a few days ago, there was a comment in a thread there claiming that RooshV and ReturnOfKings are MRAs. I responded pointing out that they are not MRAs and are in fact anti-MRA, often bashing us as being whiny beta manginas.

This comment was deleted, while the original comment calling them MRAs was allowed to stand. This happens constantly there. Eg, a feminist will claim that feminism helped fathers get equal custody, somebody will point out that feminist groups actually heavily lobbied against equal custody rights, and the latter comment will be deleted. I'ts most noticeable in the comments, but it happens with posts too. Lauren Southern had a video about Women Against Feminism and why she is not a feminist, and the moderators deleted it. A female redditor posted a video of a woman talking about feminism, and the moderators deleted it because it went against their narrative. Time and time again, we see really blatant censorship and propaganda on TwoX to promote feminism, and I have yet to see any feminists call them out on it or express anything but support for widespread censorship of dissenting opinions on a default sub.

What is your personal opinion about the mass censorship on TwoX? How do you feel about the moderators of a default sub for women assuming that all women must support feminism? Do you even think TwoX should be a default, given that there has never been a default sub for discussing men's issues?

EDIT: To give you an idea of the censorship I am talking about and how unjustified it is, here is the comment of mine they deleted recently:

RooshV and ReturnOfKings have repeatedly said they are not MRAs. They are largely anti-MRA and think MRAs are whiny beta-males. The people claiming Roosh and ROK are MRAs are generally doing so intentionally to slander the MRM, because the idea of men talking about their issues sounds horrible to them.

This was in direct response to a comment calling them MRAs, which was not deleted.

SKNK_Monk · 2016-02-07T20:58:54+00:00

What evidence would you accept for any of the following: -the patriarchy doesn't exist (it depends on your definition of patriarchy, I understand. I've seen a couple people ask for your definitions and I haven't seen you respond.) -western women are not uniquely disadvantaged as compared to western men -the MRM is a better way to address men's issues than feminism

FromTheFarSouth · 2016-02-07T21:39:31+00:00

Why do feminists think all MRAs are "white"? I'm from Chile and I participate actively in the Spanish-speaking MRA and anti-feminist communities. When I discuss with North American feminists, they always accuse me of being a "White cis-gendered privileged man", even though most of my MRA buddies and I are not "white".

The_Def_Of_Is_Is · 2016-02-08T01:13:37+00:00

OP you know far too little about the world, or even the numbers that come out of the people that do know about a tiny aspect of the world, to speak as an authority on the way it works.

2016-02-08T21:56:06+00:00

OP, since you've obviously flown the coop based on your non-responses to my further queries and critiques, I'm just going put this bluntly:

Your little AMA was pointless.

Every single answer you've given thus far has been straight out of the feminist textbook with no further examination from you. Nor any consideration of the responses given by people in this thread.

Especially your little spiel about all males benefiting from their privilege.

Frankly, if I were benefiting in anyway from privilege, my story and experiences would've gone to the head of the line and published in countless publications all over news media.

But no, I had to work for it and get it out there myself. Thus far, it's only in one publication. And that was years ago. To this day, there has still been no movement to examine why people continuously refuse to teach their girls boundary lessons and to keep their hands to themselves at the same level as boys. Because some women take upon themselves to use physical and emotional violence to get what they want with little repercussions. I have no idea what to do next. Wish I could use my privelge powers because if it meant bringing me internal peace and well-being, your damn right I wouldn't hesitate. If it were possible.

Newsflash: it's not.

Newsflash Number Two: See. I wouldn't use it to oppress women now, would I?

Anyway, what you told me is similar to what every other feminist I spoke with used. Not surprising considering the framework you utilize.

You know something? I find little difference between the moderate feminists who barge in here and start variations of a thread entitled "Why do you hate feminism? It's for equality." and your AMA. Except for the fact that you're subliminally advertising in your responses. The others are more upfront about their intentions.

Dispel stereotypes about feminists and MRAs? Miss, YOU are the very walking, talking stereotype you attempt to decry.

Please quit selling equality. I'm not buying.

davidrexs · 2016-02-07T14:09:49+00:00

1:Can you give your definition of the patriarchy, please?

And explain how it manifests itself in Western society, what the evidence for it is etc.

2: What are your thoughts on post-modernism and its application through standpoint theory and intersectionality on 3rd wave feminist theory?

3: do you agree with the motions going through in the UK that suggest fewer women should be jailed whilst nothing is done to address the number of male prisoners?

iainmf · 2016-02-07T08:33:56+00:00

Not sure if you've answered this.

What do you think the biggest issues facing men are?

trygold · 2016-02-07T18:23:56+00:00

Have you browsed our sub? What are some men's issues you can fully or even partially get behind?

drunk_doct0r · 2016-02-07T18:24:42+00:00

How do you feel about male circumcision being legal, as genital integrity is one right men do not have, that women do

Thank you for replying-that is if you do

intensely_human · 2016-02-07T18:43:22+00:00

When and how did you first become aware of feminism? When and how did you decide to be a feminist yourself?

What are some of the more interesting disagreements you have had with other feminists?

If you had to focus all your efforts on one feminist issue, like it were to become your career and life's work, what issue would that be and why?

SKNK_Monk · 2016-02-07T20:55:58+00:00

What is it that you believe the Men's Rights Movement doesn't know about Feminism or Feminists that you were hoping to help with this AMA?

Pharmakoza · 2016-02-07T23:03:59+00:00

I was hoping the individual giving this AMA would at least have a consistent position that was supported by evidence.

Can somebody find us a smarter feminist to discuss with?

soalone34 · 2016-02-08T05:07:18+00:00

What do you think about the organized effort by feminists to smear MRA's? Many news sites called Elliot Rodger an MRA, despite there being no proof. In essence trying to pin his spree killing motives on us. More recently news sites continue to call Roosh v an MRA, even though he's stated he isn't and has written hit pieces on us.

CelestialDos · 2016-02-08T05:18:23+00:00

I've not commented on this post until now since I felt a duty to read through the comments to ensure my potential questions hadn't already been answered. However after doing so I must admit that I do not understand why it's stickied. There's barely any discussion in the comment section most of the questions are responded to with non-answers and OP seems to abandon comment threads that are hard to answer or which obviously are unfavorable to her position. In any event; her answer to everything seems to be "That's want we want too" while ignoring the very problematic behavior of feminism in the real world.

das_superbus · 2016-02-08T11:25:47+00:00

This thread needs to be deleted. It's only purpose is to further embed the ignorant feminist stereotype we already know and love.

neightdog · 2016-02-08T12:32:36+00:00

I wonder what the thread would look like if someone from this subreddit were to make a very close approximation of this thread in one of the feminist subreddits

Someone should do that for science

PotatoDonki · 2016-02-07T21:53:24+00:00

Are we seriously to the point where we're giving a feminist airtime to the point she's stickied to the front page? Were silenced at every turn by these people and now we're giving them a platform? What the hell, mods?

CapitalJusticeWarior · 2016-02-08T03:11:37+00:00

Could you sum up your guiding philosophy in a couple sentences?

AloysiusC · 2016-02-08T07:00:50+00:00

Now that you've shared a lot of your views and answered many questions here, has anything you've encountered given you reason to reconsider or perhaps revise some of your views on gender issues?

Lrellok · 2016-02-08T07:19:02+00:00

I have recently read a number of feminist spaces saying something about how muslim women are leading global feminism. What specifically are they talking about?

boundlessmind8 · 2016-02-08T07:22:45+00:00

[deleted]

What is this?

CraftyDrac · 2016-02-08T07:50:56+00:00

Are you familiar with gamergate, and if you're anti: what standard of evidence would you accept to counter this?

soalone34 · 2016-02-07T17:02:19+00:00

Thanks for doing this, I know everyone is being kind of hostile but discussions like these and confronting different views is very important and creates healthier movement.

portmantoux · 2016-02-07T09:29:32+00:00

do you relish the blood of men like the legends say? does it give you your life essence?

Title	AMA- typical feminist
Author	Zoidbergluver
Upvotes	26
Comments	604
Date	February 6, 2016 6:41 PM UTC (10 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/44hh3w/ama_typical_feminist/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/ama-typical-feminist.956761 https://theredarchive.com/post/956761

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