FDS is NOT categorically against OLD.

birdsflygood · 2021-11-17T21:26:02+00:00

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2340000 · 2021-11-17T21:36:51+00:00

I hate that some users treat FDS like a religion. They dictate what FDS "allows" as if they cannot function without a set of rules. Wear makeup....Don't wear makeup. That's pandering to the male gaze...but this isn't 😒😒😒

Like, sis.... FDS is a lifeline for many women, but ultimately YOU enforce your boundaries. Use the content here to transform your dating/personal life.

You can't tell a guy, "I have this boundary because FDS says so".

We live in a modern era where you can order groceries on an app. So, OLD isn't far fetched. If you use it, okay. If you don't, okay.

23eggz · 2021-11-18T01:54:46+00:00

Agree! I feel like online dating gets a lot of flack and is considered sub to meetin irl.

In my experience, OLD often allows you to see red flags in a profile that would take longer to notice if you met in person. I think this is because a)men make their profiles to look cool to other men and b) that therefore makes them more likely to include something they wouldn't be bold enough to say irl.

For example, on tinder I saw a guy refer to himself as a "n@Z! ch***" (I censored - his profile had it spelled out in full) on his profile because he is half austrian half Chinese...🚩🚩 I doubt thats something this guy would have said IRL if I had met him in the wild.

In that sense, I think OLD can be 'better' when it comes to vetting in some ways because the red flags are often more glaring.

divination__ · 2021-11-18T00:09:06+00:00

It's such a myth that there are categorically NO HVM using OLD as it implies that men you meet IRL are somehow more likely to be HVM and I think some women falsely end up letting that cloud their judgemen.t They're simply not. The reason that it seems like there are more LVM on dating apps is just because you're exposed to a significantly larger sample size of the population and most men are LV. Additionally, apps force you to consider every single person as a potential mate, so you're forced to look and consider people who you wouldn't even notice or acknowledge IRL, so it looks more bleak.

The way in which you meet someone, lest it's through really obviously bad circumstances, does not determine their character. The worst date I've been on in the past 18 months of dating was with someone I met through friends, and some of the best were through OLD, including expensive restaurants and hotel bar dates.

HVM are human too, and we've all been locked up for a long time and lots of places still only do table service so people couldn't even approach you at a bar if they wanted to, culturally most of us have been driven to the apps whether we like it or not. Many HVM who want a relationship will also be on the apps because they want to increase their chances of meeting someone.

For vetting, apps are also more convenient in some ways – I usually fully google and do a deep dive into a man before even deciding to match with him or not, whereas with a stranger IRL you have no idea if what he's saying is the truth and can be verified until you're apart rom him again and can google but at that point he'll already have your contact details and name.

gingerandlime · 2021-11-17T21:18:45+00:00

Thank you. I keep seeing this erroneously posted. OLD has been crucial to me learning to vet. The way I think of it is just like walking down a street, most people on that street are absolutely none of my business, so there’s no need to freak out about the fact that many men are not presenting value in the world.

-positivity- · 2021-11-18T00:13:53+00:00

Thank you for this. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with considering various pathways for finding a HVM. Many decent, successful guys go on OLD because they neither have the time nor the opportunity to meet women esp. if they work in a traditionally male-dominated field. Some of my friends met their bfs/husbands on OLD.

I’ve been on OLD myself and have only had positive experiences. Yes, I went out with well-educated, go-getting nice men. But then again, I’m a detached dater: I check OLD once every two days and send 1 line replies, so men have no choice but to ask me out if they want to get to know me. I don’t “invest” in strangers I may not even meet or like in person. That’s what worked for me. Online dating can be fun if you have boundaries in place, stay safe and are looking to be pleased! OLD is a good way to remind yourself of the abundance of men out there.

CountingDownTheDays5 · 2021-11-17T21:10:25+00:00

Somebody here asked me to write an entire post regarding how I lucked up on old so often, and how do I vet men on OLD. I have had good luck on OLD and have met my BF on there. I tried posting once but was dragged. So I assumed after being drugged FDS was against it formally. Thank you for correcting me. I still won't make the post again, but it's nice that this sub advising women to make their own decision regarding it.

thewetdog_ · 2021-11-18T00:56:49+00:00

It also perpetuates a false sense of control in women, as if there’s a checklist of things you need to do/avoid that will guarantee you find hvm.

As if meeting him through friends or him paying for dates and vacation make him HV. As if somehow it’s protective. It’s exactly how OP puts it- most men are low value, regardless of where you find them. Don’t think because you met him in your church group he’s somehow better than a guy on OLD.

all_or_nothing_bet · 2021-11-18T01:23:04+00:00

I'm not on OLD at the moment but I do suggest supplementing your real-life connections with OLD to make sure you don't develop a scarcity mindset.

Here are my observations of women who stick to dating without the help if OLD:

When a woman is not exposed to a large number of decent, single, and ready to date men (and most women are not, it's just not possible for the majority of population), they tend to treat each decent connection with more enthusiasm and more hopeful attitude than those who find multiple dates on OLD.

The promising connections are relatively rare, it can take some women literally years to meet a high value guy in real life who would also be ready, available and interested in dating them, so they want to make it work.

This is where sunk cost fallacy takes its effect. These women cling to the possibility of a relationship with said guys because they dread that another 3 years will pass before they meet another attracrive, available and interested man. They become unreasonably invested and borderline desperate. They also either prefer not to notice the red flags that the guy is displaying or they are not experienced enough to notice them. They forget that everyone is replaceable.

OLD gives a different perspective and let's you practice vetting. Good profile with good pictures will attract equally good profiles of men. If an app is showing you only trash - redo your profile to make it more attractive to men of higher social status.

Generally, well-educated high-earning, attractive men are matching with similarly attractive, educated women. Go on dates with as many men as possible (pre-screen them first on the app) and vet ruthlessly.

Don't rely on the luck of meeting the "love of your life" in the wild. The chances of it happening is extremely low because most men out there are of a low quality and HVM are very scarce. You have to be at the right place at the right time when stars are aligned properly or whatever, to meet a potential partner. Most of us aren't that lucky.

Without putting ourselves out there, maximizing our exposure, most of us, unfortunately, will either end up with LVM or alone.

Now, staying single is a wonderful option but this is a dating sub, so OLD it is - as a supplement to your meet-ups, social circle connections, networking events and pure luck.

Sweetheartsorrow · 2021-11-17T21:23:51+00:00

Thank you for this post. I loathe online dating. However, I use it periodically because my situation doesn’t allow for me to meet a lot of men organically but I don’t take it too seriously and don’t expect much to come from it. If anything it’s good practice recognizing red flags and getting comfortable turning down LVM/NVM just in case I do come across something worthwhile. I have the notifications turned off and only check every few days. Got a message today asking if I wanted to “grab a snack and see where things go”. Didn’t respond. Block. Delete. Buh bye. Felt good.

thelionmermaid · 2021-11-18T03:23:49+00:00

My logic and attitude towards OLD is a projection of my own experience with dating... A HVW like me is a catch and perfectly normal: I want a relationship and I'm going to be a fantastic partner, but haven't found the right person yet. I'm using OLD in hopes of making that happen.

So perhaps a HVM with the same attitude/qualities, somewhere amongst the sea of LVM, is lurking and hoping to find a HVW too? It's plausible, and I'm sifting through all the dirt 'til I find my golden chunk.

Sewud · 2021-11-18T05:26:17+00:00

It's absolutely possible to use OLD safely. IMO OLD makes it easier to identify HVM because it gives you some info right away. That's not to say there are many HVM on OLD, but you can easily sort HVM profiles from LVM profiles. LVM aren't exactly smart enough to be pass as HVM on OLD.

birdsflygood · 2021-11-18T00:39:55+00:00

I don’t drink anymore and don’t do OLD. I’m just relying on the universe to bring me my HVM one day and even if that doesn’t happen, I’m alright.

FreeProgress499 · 2021-11-18T05:52:25+00:00

I met my BF on OLD and, 5 months in, he seems fantastic! (Always vetting, of course, but so far, so good.) I met my ex IRL, we worked close by one another and kept running into one another. He was definitely NV but I was younger and more naive and let him get away with, well, pretty much everything.

The point is, HV, NV and LV are everywhere. NV and LV are way more common, and will outnumber the HV no matter what the setting.

OLD definitely has some HV, you just have to sift through all of the crap to find them (and, yes, there is a LOT of crap).

I used OLD to learn how to vet and, since I had no actual connection with the guy, it made learning how to block and delete that much easier.

When a guy started getting pervy? Tried to make me fish for information? Tried to breadcrumb? Tried to lovebomb (before even meeting, wtf)? Block and delete.

When he’d pass the initial “getting to know you” texting and we’d meet up in person, and there was no spark? I’d send a message saying, “thanks for your time, it was great getting to know you, unfortunately I didn’t feel a spark.” Block and delete.

It was cathartic, in a way, to realize that I didn’t have to entertain a guy just because he “liked” me. OLD definitely helped me grow.

If it works for you, great! If it doesn’t work for you, that’s fine, too! Just have standards and boundaries in place, and make sure you enforce them. They’re your boundaries for a reason.

ironglaciers · 2021-11-18T03:35:54+00:00

LVM are everywhere but they have a larger sample size on OLD. That has been my experience. It's low-effort and harder to actually make something work. But for those lucky few, it can work. I just wasn't one of them.

Healingirl · 2021-11-17T23:39:54+00:00

Thank you MODS for finally posting this! So many women think that meeting men in the wild involves less risks and it can't be further from the truth

maraslove · 2021-11-18T01:19:45+00:00

Some of the people on this board will cause many women who need good advice to steer away. If I’m not mistaken, there was a post of a woman wanting advice on what to wear for her first date with a guy I think she met through OLD. I was personally disgusted seeing people telling her that it doesn’t matter how she dresses, no makeup is fine, blah blahhh. It’s like, they wanted her to sabotage herself? That is how I took it. This is female DATING strategy not female single forever strategy. Not everyone here gets guys as soon as they walk outside. Women should expand their dating options. No one has to stay by themselves for you and NO it’s not “pick me” to want someone. Stop the shaming.

welcometomyyyworld · 2021-11-18T02:52:07+00:00

My best relationship so far we matched on tinder and my worst we met though a friend who thought we might like each other. Take from that what you will.

onefoulowl · 2021-11-17T23:38:16+00:00

I saw bonghits4jess's post about LVM (one of the most popular recent posts on FDS) where she dragged OLD, saying it was against FDS, and women who online date have no self respect and I honestly found it upsetting. People are busy and group hobbies are often expensive and require you to own a car, and volunteering/ charity work dosen't necessarily guarantee you to meet HVM or that HVM will ask you out. And again it's a big time sink if it isn't something you are selflessly commited to. Online dating is in the most simple sense a space where men can ask you out, when in person approaching a women, at a hobby or work/ volunteering can be seen as sexual harrassment, so men are often reluctant to do so. Also on OLD, you can vet profiles and women only have to engage with men they have 'matched' with. I'm tired of being dragged for actively trying to date and told it's better to be alone then use OLD by rabid FDS subscribers. Even the podcast girls don't disapprove of online dating so what is it with these standard shaming women on FDS.

MissDesignDiva · 2021-11-18T00:20:25+00:00

Thank you for this! I live in a freaking small town in BC, Canada and am on Provincial disability support. I'm also Christian and Child-Free by choice. I've more or less accepted the fact that online dating is basically the only way I'll find a match. Is it exhausting? heck yes it is. But I'd rather make an attempt than just settle for being single forever. I mean I'm only 31, I've still got life to live and I don't want to be alone. All of that background out of the way, reading here I felt like I couldn't admit that I do use online dating, at the moment I'm on 3 apps (POF, OkCupid and Hinge) just to give myself a chance of finding someone.

aurelia_86 · 2021-11-18T00:30:47+00:00

THANK YOU. There was a post recently that I felt came close to blaming women for bad experiences with OLD, because it was apparently against FDS. Meanwhile I listen to the podcast where the hosts explicitly say that's a misconception and it's up to each woman to decide on what works for her in terms of meeting men.

I think FDS is really about a) becoming high value yourself, b) learning to vet men and spot red and green flags and b) only allowing men into your life who add value, once you have taken the time to figure out what that means for you. Those techniques will apply equally to the guy you met at a friend's birthday vs the guy you met through OLD.

jayda92 · 2021-11-17T22:21:31+00:00

Love this post! If some people don't do online dating, perfectly fine! But there's no need for shaming women who do in the name of FDS. There's a lot of reasons to stop online dating, but there's also a lot of reasons to start doing it.

I had amazing experiences through Tinder. I met 2 exes there and to be honest; they were a lot better than the 'men in the wild' I meet. Never had a one night stand. I noticed that I had an amazing opportunity to vet; I always seem to end up lucky with OLD whereas IRL I keep a good eye on my surroundings and I don't have a lot of time to think (also a lot on my mind). Sometimes I used to date 3 guys in a day; my friends have called me the TinderQueen sometimes. I hate clubbing, i don't drink alcohol, I had my experience partying (aka: done) and I work in a very feminine environment. Where do I meet men? OLD is sometimes the only way to go. My boyfriend is amazing, got to know him through Tinder..

wondertarget · 2021-11-17T23:41:08+00:00

Agreed. I met my HV fiancé on OLD. I live abroad and we were both too busy with work to meet people IRL. I also met a lot of good BF's via OLD that didn't work out due to moves, lack of compatibility in the LT, and feelings changing into more of a brother/sister type relationship (odd, I know, but it happens lol).

I've always used FDS as guidelines: I tailor them to my own boundaries, morals, and wants/desires.

NotSoSmartChick · 2021-11-18T04:15:51+00:00

I go through spurts where I hate it, but OLD has actually been a positive for me. I’ve met some interesting people, and that’s how I met the guy I'm currently seeing. If this ends, I’ll eventually get back on the apps.

iacint · 2021-11-18T08:45:36+00:00

Old also help busy women, you see tens of profiles and match you just have bigger pools. Btw all my relationships come from old- hv, medium, just nv, i had relationships what come from irl- all sucked.

BedazzledSwashbuckle · 2021-11-18T15:52:54+00:00

I'm glad to see this.

Dating in the wild wasn't particularly safe, and you'd have to date or be around someone for awhile before you'd get half the prompts that you see in one profile view on OLD. Not that OLD is all that safe either, but there are little things one can do to (hopefully) help minimize the risk.

I think with OLD the mindset is that you're trying to get people to self-eliminate. Not by being negative (we all hate profiles that lead with what *they* hate), but by being almost a caricature of your biggest traits / what would attract what you want. If you want a fit guy, you never stop moving; if you like punk, you list every tattoo parlor in your city. If financial security is important to you, there's a luxury logo somewhere in every photo. If affinity for dogs matters, your name is just the dog emoji 15 times. I'm exaggerating, but I found that being very very extreme about what I was/wanted meant fewer swipes to narrow things down. It also meant that even if one guy didn't quite work, he usually was connected to the world / field / people / vibe that I wanted, at least, so his world and my world often cross-pollinated (two friends married guys I met on OLD and dated once, didn't have chemistry ... then kept inviting to social events locally where I was going with girl friends).

The goal is not to waste time on people who inhabit worlds and circles that you'd never ever "marry into" - even figuratively, for a year or two. Not as a judgment call, but because life is short and your heart is always vulnerable to misguided attachments that will pull you off course.

BabyFaceuk · 2021-11-18T06:50:59+00:00

I’m 33 and I’ve dated A LOT of men over the years. Genuinely, I’ve only met two HVM out of probably a hundred. One I met through friends and one I met OLD.

Honestly though the amount of shit I had to sift through…

BookwormJane · 2021-11-18T11:36:05+00:00

My lifestyle makes OLD the only way to meet men. And yes there are many LVM online but there are many LVM offline as well.

And honestly? I'd rather meet a man online and talk about his interests and values before meeting him in person than meeting a man organically at a bar or nightclub where the likelihood of meeting a NVM is super high.

Vetting is the key, you should always vet.

hensbanex · 2021-11-18T13:13:52+00:00

I dont use OLD because I am very private and don’t like putting photos out on the internet but honestly it’s like why wouldn’t you use OLD if you’re actively dating? even passively? like yes there’s more lvm but there are some hvm and you have to try to find them…if you have the time and the desire it’s a solid strategy as long as you vet and are realistic about expectations.

JesusisKingisLord · 2021-11-18T01:47:17+00:00

Wowwwww thank you for this post.

frostedgemstone · 2021-11-18T08:51:59+00:00

Everyone else made great points, another benefit of dating apps is that they also allow you to filter things so you can zone in more on what you’re looking for! There’s a filter for height, education, religion, childfree vs not etc

KathyisQueen · 2021-11-18T18:36:14+00:00

OLD was a great way for me to practice my vetting. Especially when you unmatch or don’t send likes so often, it can wear you down mentally and make you want to lower your standards. So much easier to recognize that from the safety of my home and stop myself rather than out in the wild. It’s a great way to test what you’ve learned and practice but I agree, OLD often shows folks’ true colors quickly and get you comfortable with saying no and blocking.

mypetchickens · 2021-11-17T23:16:49+00:00

Can someone explain to me what OLD is?

Carpedictum · 2021-11-18T06:25:48+00:00

Could we get a clarifying/position post about being a SAHM or SAHWife?

Obviously a man must pay for all dates and entertainment, etc. Ok. Then we say no 50/50 on bills, etc., so the man must support us. Ok.

BUT- then comes the INSISTENCE that women continue to work in perpetuity, despite ostensibly receiving no benefit from the money except having it pile up.

Part time work isn’t a great solution. Many studies have shown that part time work results in the least happy women- they’re spread thin and still not earning enough to feel satisfied with any necessary sacrifices. (Literally google the first half of this sentence. Plenty sources.)

So- women are required to be a wage slave in perpetuity, for the sole purpose of hedging any bet/benefit from a man.

I understand having a solid plan. An education, some work experience, contacts, large chunk of exclusively personal savings. But I’ve seen women slammed over and over on here for not working- even with a good plan in place.

It’s super duper if a woman wants to work. Absolutely nothing wrong with that whatsoever. I’m a professional with a doctorate- I get it. But if I marry a billionaire, hell, a 10 millionaire, you bet your ass I’m not staring at freaking spreadsheets anymore.

I just don’t understand why many are saying a man must take care of us, but also we should continue slogging through life as if he isn’t doing that? And that’s the ONLY possible way to approach things.

Position statement please. Is FDS compatible with wanting to be a SAHM/W, provided a good plan is in place? Personally I say yes, and that we should spend more energy getting into the nitty gritty of protecting yourself instead of just defaulting to “Just don’t do that.”

Gologic34 · 2021-11-18T04:45:00+00:00

I don't think it is ever the "only" way to "realistically" meet the 51% of men under the age of 30 and 27% of men 30-49 who are single in the US, but it is a way.

NotYourBizThrowAway · 2021-11-18T15:43:24+00:00

Overall, there’s a lot of fish in the sea on OLD, but there’s also a lot of trash. Vet vet vet!!

onceuponasea · 2021-11-18T13:17:47+00:00

My thing is, if HVM use online dating because they’re too busy and not able to meet women in real life, then do you really want a man who doesn’t have the time or opportunity to meet women in real life then what makes me think he is going to have time for a real life girlfriend. I’m not shaming women who use OLD, if it works for you it works for you. But personally I’d rather meet people in real life, in real time.

dinarvand88 · 2021-11-17T23:22:55+00:00

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2021-11-18T02:32:18+00:00

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candyfox84 · 2021-11-19T19:23:00+00:00

This is a great clarification, thank you! I am generally ok with OLD as a part of a larger dating strategy. I think if you are only meeting men online though, you need to revisit your hobbies, activities, and how you put yourself out there. Trust me, I get it. I'd rather sit at home any ol day with a cup of cocoa in front of my fireplace watching Emily in Paris *BUT* if you want to meet an HVW, you have to diversify your experiences.

ashw1226 · 2021-11-24T03:37:06+00:00

In the topic of OLD, I’m curious how others broach the subject of not being okay with porn use. Do you spell it out in your profile? Mention it after talking? After a date? I’ve struggled with the conversation and timing!

deifio · 2021-11-24T15:21:00+00:00

I find OLD weirdly comforting in the sense that when I'm having a moment of feeling lonely, I can spend a few minutes looking at what OLD has to offer, practice some easy vetting and after that, the bout of loneliness is usually magically gone!

When I was younger, I definitely used to be the sort of person who wanted to give people a chance and would politely laugh off potential red flags so it's actually quite helpful to have a (relatively) safe way to reaffirm some single-strike-and-out boundaries!

Title	FDS is NOT categorically against OLD.
Author	BasieSkanks
Upvotes	632
Comments	97
Date	November 17, 2021 8:52 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/qw8pdk/fds_is_not_categorically_against_old/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/fds-is-not-categorically-against-old.1083594 https://theredarchive.com/post/1083594

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