Do you think military-style programs from adolescence through late teens could have improved the lives of many manospherians?

groupme_throwaway · 2021-10-15T16:55:51+00:00

Sports, maybe. This is not a new idea.

Military training isn't made to improve your life; it's meant to turn you into a soldier. I get this line of thinking though, waving pussy on a stick and then sending excess men to their death has worked wonders in the past.

To illustrate how ridiculous this idea is: could also be talking about sending little girls to nunneries to "improve their lives" before they become used-up FDS whores

GridReXX · 2021-10-15T16:33:16+00:00

God that buzzfeed tweet is despicable. Going on an on about objectifying women and here they are just openly objectifying men. I'll have to track down the rest of their posts objectifying men for, uhh, research.

No,mandatory military training isn't going to help most people. It helps degenerates and people that need structure but I don't think think the positives outweigh the negatives. The suicide rate is high for a reason.

passepar2t · 2021-10-15T16:30:08+00:00

GuitarsBack · 2021-10-15T16:11:31+00:00

Yes and no. : )

We had mandatory military basic training (about 10 months) here in Germany up until 2011). But you could also choose to do substitute service for example at a hospital. (That's what I did).

I agree that boot camp style stuff could be absolutely awesome for young men. Done the right way.

It didn't seem to do much for my friends who did basic training. (Most chose substitute service).

The training regimen was not so much about getting fit, but to do physical stuff beyond exhaustion while being sleep-deprived and hungry.

My friend was completely de-hydrated and tore a tendon in his ankle while marching. "Keep marching or do you want your comrades to carry you?"

I just did weight lifting with a proper diet during substitute service and was much fitter and more buff than any of my friends who had gone through boot camp.

Another guy I know had a lot of pent up rage already but it became much worse because of the Full Metal Jacket style treatment. He wasn't a close friend, more like a buddy. But hanging out with him wasn't fun anymore.

Another thing: They were only allowed 5 minutes or so to eat. Eating at Burger King with them sucked because they had become so accustomed to inhaling their meal that it wasn't fun anymore. Even years later.

That said, it depended on which base they were at. Some of them did like the experience. Inb4 "that's not what basic training looked like!"

In short: Boot camp, yes. Stupid boot camp, no.

XtoDoubt · 2021-10-15T16:49:43+00:00

Fuck no. These are the kinds of places that teach men to take responsibility but not authority. Unless your goal is to pump out a bunch of beta bux slaves who's wives will get pumped and dumped by Chad while they're off fighting in Somalia, this is a fail on its face.

JacobMoogberg69 · 2021-10-15T16:27:23+00:00

Boys will definitely benefit from a training that will teach them to love themselves and respect themselves and be leaders. Not sure military training teaches self love and respect though.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-10-15T17:16:53+00:00

As someone who went through a military program voluntarily and who is also involved in the Manosphere the answer is a hard NO.

I can tell you right now, plenty of guys in the Manosphere have Military and even Law Enforcement backgrounds from various countries so the idea that running men through coerced military service is going to do nothing except to further convince even more men to drop out of society as is common in 3rd world countries where compulsory military service is a thing.

but I think some sort of consistent soft-compulsory participation in things like that would benefit lots of young boys.

College Education is a sort of soft-compulsory requirement and look how well that's going for men. College went from being an achievement to where now it is almost a requirement and men's instinct has been to say "fuck that" and go their own way. Trade School and the Labor Force are not considered requirements and that is where men have migrated to in droves. The number of men enrolling in Trade School, On the job training program, and applications for CDL licenses has skyrocketed. Men are giving the finger to college and hitting the road.

Proxies for this are little league sports, junior varsity sports, varsity sports, ROTC,fraternities, etc. The goal is physicality, team building, social accountability, discipline, and masculine bonding and rapport-building."

And what makes you think the Manosphere is not a gateway for men to network towards those programs? The Manosphere isn't just full of incels and skinheads. Masculine bonding takes place there 'a plenty. As for social accountability? That is the reason the Manosphere exists. We are not about to hold ourselves accountable to a fucking society that threw us oerboard in the name of Woke-ism and Feminism since before we were born. That is what we mean every time you hear the slogan "Enjoy the Decay." It is a statement of non-accountability towards a society that just doesn't give a fuck about us - a society that considers the rights of men as as a laughable thing to be discarded and scoffed at or at worst as some kind of dangerous extremist mentality which is why MRAs are treated like pariahs.

wtknight · 2021-10-15T17:05:55+00:00

No. These guys are already building online teams of guy gamers. They already know how to socialize with other men. They need to learn how to socialize with women. Going to school dances and church groups and parties and having to join mixed gender social groups would be better for them. Having to live in mixed gender dormitories where their neighbors are women would also help. Of the things you list, being in a fraternity would help the most, not because they’re around other men and building camaraderie, but because they would be more likely to be partying with young women.

The military wouldn’t do much alone. I never joined the military and I’m a disorganized slacker. I learned to be successful with women because I learned how to communicate and understand women - by interacting with them and not just theorizing about them like TRP does.

RottingVillain666 · 2021-10-16T07:32:38+00:00

A gay man wrote that tweet. I think he wants more a porn set then a actual drill

cowfishAreReal · 2021-10-15T15:58:29+00:00

Different things are good for different people, some men would be miserable in military-style programs and some would benefit from them

NockerJoe · 2021-10-15T17:16:38+00:00

No. My parents tried that shit and I hated it. The only thing I cared about that was even close, was the football team I willibgly signed on for and that didn't change anything.

Locking kids in a mostly male environment won't help them with women. Forcing them to do dumb shit they don't want to rarely breeds positive effexts. They have to want it and the rest of the world needs to have a positive reaction to them wanting it.

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-10-15T16:13:52+00:00

Maybe...but if we're talking about getting laid, the ironic thing is that the programs churn out men I'm not attracted to lol

SKY_ACTIV3 · 2021-10-15T16:55:28+00:00

No. Mandatory military service is a blatant violation of liberties, but I’ll assume the “proxies” you’ve provided are also meant to be considered equally.

Traits take a long time to instill into someone. A year or two of rugged masculine training won’t mean shit if it isn’t flanked by a culture, society, and immediate community that reinforces those ideals.

This is why the “proxies” you offered are usually bundled together in a “masculine man”’s life. The most successfully “masculine” young men are ones who likely participated in most of or all of them, from childhood to young adult. They were constantly in situations where masculinity was rewarded, and were conditioned to it as a result.

There were kids from my college who did ROTC, varsity sports in high school, Boy Scouts, etc. They came from white, conservative Christian towns, as well as nuclear family units that bolstered the masculine teachings they were subject to.

The kids from my diverse, liberal, artsy, largely-feminist High School that went on to do ROTC had a fraction of the respect. Many of them have since struggled to start their lives, and are met with little support to their “masculine” behaviors. It’s not that masculinity is always good or always bad. It’s the conflicting narratives surrounding it that are bottlenecking male development.

1/5 children are being raised without a father figure at home. Far more are living in split-custody homes. Public school teachers are about 70% women iirc. This means that while children can and will outsource life-skill teaching to their peers, these lessons will likely not be reinforced by authoritative figures at home or in the community.

I don’t think society is in a position to double down on the “good ol masculinity” of the 1950s. So no, while sending a boy off to boot camp might feel good at the time, it’d be ignorant to think that that alone is enough to condition him into some masculine archetype that we think society is missing now. The “crisis of masculinity” among boys isn’t that boys need to be raised in some hyper masculine way to succeed, it’s that masculinity exists in a dual state of limbo for them, where it is consistently rewarded and punished in a way that a boy might struggle to instill a healthy relationship with their sense of masculinity, and struggle to make personal choices about who they want to be.

ahandtoyourdarknessx · 2021-10-15T15:56:25+00:00

No, because all that would change is that they’d be more aggressive and more capable of causing harm.

Maybe I’m only viewing this from my own perspective, but I think we need revamped sexual education that includes primarily talking about consent, but also that teaches men and women how to approach a relationship. Abstinence only education doesn’t work especially when kids are getting most of their social cues of media, so what you end up having is a bunch of hyper sexual adolescent boys that don’t have a clue how to pursue the girls they like, they get rejected a few times, then become disgruntled.

If you threw military training into that then I think they’d just become more violent when their expectations aren’t met

Aldabruzzo · 2021-10-15T16:42:00+00:00

military not as much as team sports.

Team sports is much better for a lot of these boys.

Team sports is better for the boys who feel left out, feel like they're not part of something, or are out of shape.

The military is better for boys who lack structure and discipline, the "Lone Wolf" rebel without a clue types.

John_Oakman · 2021-10-15T17:49:50+00:00

It's an overall stabilizing influence for societies and cultures that already have an authoritarian streak...

... in an US context though, it's just gonna unintentionally radicalize a lot of males and give them the skills to do something about it.

PeaceLoveorKnife · 2021-10-15T19:45:03+00:00

Something needs to change. There's a distinct lack of guidance in secondary school and beyond. It's all aimed to push people through college admission, not after, there aren't even exit exams to equal to the entrance tests.

I really think all these tests and diplomas fail to inform a persons character, only how well they follow instructions. Which isn't too great when there are no instructions.

I had a friend who was trained towards college from middle school (asian). He got good grades, he was terrified of his parents, and got into the University of Florida to become an engineer. Following year he's had to drop out and attend community college, all his hard work wasn't natural and without rigid control he didn't attend class, shave, or take responsibility for what he needed to do. That set back was probably good for him, he worked so much harder after it, but the lack of natural drive is all too common.

szclimber · 2021-10-15T22:26:16+00:00

No. Most people in the US military are not impressive. They also lack romantic relationships.

Megabyte7637 · 2021-10-16T00:33:18+00:00

No. This is a common misconception among women. When their son or something is out of control they think sending them to bootcamp or the military can fix it.

WestsideMoonWalker · 2021-10-15T16:01:46+00:00

I do think that being fit and active in someone's younger years is good, but I generally have issues with the way that forced proximity in social environments sometimes gets horribly toxic as well, so that's at least one concern.

Those types of activities can be beneficial, but I'd also say that requires buy-in from the participants or else it's just kinda damaging to them in the long-run.

I also just think a lot of people in the manosphere have problems that go WAY deeper than just needing to form better masculine bonds and fitness though.

hi_and_fuck_you · 2021-10-15T17:53:46+00:00

Putting people in environments they don't belong in will stifle growth, not promote it. Same reason our education system is a joke.

_Oh_Be_Nice_ · 2021-10-15T17:03:56+00:00

Anyone dumb enough to join the military should be allowed in.

GodFromMachine · 2021-10-15T16:01:05+00:00

Many countries do have mandatory military service for men, and it doesn't really make a difference.

If you're the kind of man that likes this sort of thing (which granted, is very common), it's going to help you. But if you're the type of man to go NEET by choice, then you're just going to hate every second you spend there, and double down on your bs once you're out.

Orange_Paisley · 2021-10-15T16:12:14+00:00

Jr ROTC was chasing my daughter down like a lion with a gazelle in HS. The recruiter boasted to me “we teach kids to be good followers.” That was the last thing I wanted my kid to be. In the end she had to choose between marching band and Jr ROTC and she chose the former on her own.

Now, I had a daughter. I like to think my opinion would be the same with a son. I’ve seen men who came out of the military better people. I’ve also seen men who came out extremely damaged.

philomexa · 2021-10-15T19:00:02+00:00

Hmm yes and no. I believe young men/boys need some sort of physically intensive, masculine team environment to learn the intangibles of masculinity and team building as well as develop their strength and stamina.

HOWEVER, such environments have been RIFE with diddlers (looking at you boy scouts) abuse, assault, hazing, etc. The nature of "fraternity" has kept that shit on the DL for far too long.

I think the reason we got to where we are today was in large part a reaction to generations of abuse, diddling, etc. in these sort of fraternal organizations. If we can't weed out the abusers, might as well shut it all down? But then where does that leave the boys who would greatly benefit from a fraternal order?

I dunno, its a sticky problem. Personally we have boychild enrolled in gymnastics and he LOVES it. Its quasi team based so he can horse around with other boys, but sucess is largely dependent on his own talent/skill. He also gets to interact with the girls team during coed floor exercises so he won't be completely walled off from the other gender. However I am watching EVERYONE in charge (from the late adolescent coaches to the adult managers) like a god damn hawk.

I'm absolutely turning into a sports-mom Karen, fuck me. lol. But as long as boychild doesn't come back to me in 15 years with stories of touchy coach Kevin, its guess its worth being low-key hated at the rec center.

7SovarN · 2021-10-15T20:10:36+00:00

Yes, I think society and men would benefit greatly from having things like männerbund from mid century Germany or training like the old Spartans had.

yvaN_ehT_nioJ · 2021-10-16T00:22:34+00:00

Things like this could only be good imo, especially with the rates of boys growing up in broken homes going up as they are. Maybe things in OP weren't needed in the past, but they definitely are now.

Heaven knows I could've used it.

S0mnariumx · 2021-10-16T05:13:43+00:00

Nah troubled adolescents that join the military become grown men (with troubled adolescent minds) with power complexes. Seen it firsthand. It also seems a little unethical to me

antonio_aurelio · 2021-10-16T09:08:51+00:00

I played little league, junior varsity, and varsity sports and was an active duty military officer.

While I don’t participate in any manospherian forums, my beliefs certainly align with them.

NiceGuyNumber4 · 2021-10-15T16:14:48+00:00

If I was dictator, every boy and girl from age 14 to 18 would receive military training alongside their GED. A fit, disciplined person is objectively better than the opposite.

1Here4Bach · 2021-10-15T16:16:41+00:00

This post kinda reminded me of the Netflix show The Crown. Prince Phillip goes to a very hardknocks, militaristic all-boys boarding school as a teenager and he absolutely loved it. Said it made him a better person and he loved rough housing, playing sports and doing hands on activities with the other boys.

Fast forward and Prince Phillip makes his son Charles go to the same boarding school because he thinks he’s too soft. Charles said he hated it, didn’t learn anything and cried often. He said it was one of the worst experiences of his life.

To your point, this type of thing isn’t for every boy, especially the softer ones. Prince Phillip was always more of a masculine “Man’s man” than his son and I think that’s why he liked it so much.

Bandit174 · 2021-10-15T16:03:23+00:00

It's possible, but it might not make as much of a difference as you're imagining. I think some people just aren't meant for military life and will just end up being harassed/abused by the others if they aren't up to par or don't fit in. Some people do thrive under those kind of tough love/hazing environments but others do not and can become crushed by it.

I think that picture is already preselected towards high testosterone naturally athletic/masculine men.

Devourer_of_felines · 2021-10-15T16:00:19+00:00

Make some sort of fitness mandatory throughout high school TBH.

It differs from district to district but for mine specifically there was zero requirement for any sort of PE after 10th grade, and the requirements to ace PE was laughably low.

spinsterchachkies · 2021-10-15T17:50:09+00:00

Nice pic. I don’t care as long as whoever I’m with wears the uniform for me sometimes. Sorry what was the question?

ThenIJizzedInMyPants · 2021-10-15T17:03:44+00:00

Yes I do think something like this helpful to young men but we need to acknowledge the dark side of this stuff that DOES occur: bullying, sexual abuse, emotional trauma, etc.

A year for everyone, 2 years for anyone who wants it would make some sense. Just keeping kids out of drugs, laziness, too much gaming, and building good habits are all good

Laytheblameonluck · 2021-10-15T20:27:36+00:00

Are you going to be handing out white feathers?

Taipanshimshon · 2021-10-16T02:36:56+00:00

Hold up. Let's find a picture of young women being girly attractive and making men sandwiches and ask if that's a better way to help them not be hoes.

Jakes1967 · 2021-10-15T16:02:42+00:00

Do you think military-style programs from adolescence through late teens could have improved the lives of many manospherians?

No, all it does is improve the male population and the women actually get worse.

Mandatory nationwide military service.

So National Service Conscription?

It will instill in young men ideals of male fitness, health and aesthetics, and the close contact with other men will create bonds of friendship that will last an entire life.

Says who?

Hey, it worked with every man in my family.

Good for you.

I don’t disagree with that comment. Though perhaps not “mandatory” since “liberties” and all.

So not national service?

I’m the type of kid who willingly signed up for “Camp Cadet” type of stuff in my youth and genuinely was considering Annapolis for undergrad, so grain of salt, but I think some sort of consistent soft-compulsory participation in things like that would benefit lots of young boys.

Why?

Other proxies for this are little league sports leagues, junior varsity sports, varsity sports, ROTC, fraternities, etc. The goal is physicality, team building, social accountability, discipline, and masculine bonding and rapport-building.

Nothing like putting men in harms way...

Naval Academy freshmen doing dude things in manly bodies!

Naval and manly bodies?

Go them!

Or not.

Hoopy223 · 2021-10-15T16:30:49+00:00

Put everybody in it otherwise all the young men will be fit and all the girls will be fat lol.

In all seriousness the problem is 99% economic. Making young men do push ups doesn’t create jobs that pay a living wage. The remaining 1% is mental health issues which aren’t fixed by fitness.

samxx9 · 2021-10-15T16:52:54+00:00

I most definitely agree. I personally did many similar activities as a youth and it helped me so much. Every single person, man and woman, that came out of there was a better, more-rounded person. It will help them be better people overall, and the sexuality stuff will be a byproduct of a much healthier generation IMO.

I notice a lot of people saying stuff like 'some people aren't made for strict military stuff', and while I agree that only a minority should spend their life in such roles, I would argue that it's beneficial for everyone as a temporary youth thing. I've seen many people come out of there (as is the case for myself) a better person, only to become a white collar professional afterwards. It forces people out of the screen world urban bubble and into something truly challenging and character building. These types of experience tend to build deep inner strength which is the foundation of any truly healthy lifestyle. Someone without this inner foundation can go on to get straight A's in a super white collar, non-manual field, but they will rarely have the inner stability to put it to good use in the real world.

Behind this whole sexless stuff I think you mainly just have people who aren't mentally functioning as they should. People trying to either bathe in sexual attention because they're deeply troubled and insecure or on the opposite end, unable to attract it for superficially different albeit substantially similar reasons. Like, would you choose proper 'good' partners if you didn't know healthy from unhealthy in terms of general life situations and relationships?

Lonelybuthopeful9 · 2021-10-15T17:58:08+00:00

These thread arent even nonsense anymore, they are borderline fascist.

Maybe if you forced every male to work to death in camps from 5 to 65 they wouldnt complain about inceldom would they ?

JALopo1 · 2021-10-15T16:09:51+00:00

Agoge from 7 till 18 then mandatory military service from 18 till 21. Service guarantees citizenship. Unironically.

DeadlySwift · 2021-10-25T16:22:38+00:00

I honestly think it’s a great idea. For boys without dads or the socially stunted/lost in life. I don’t think any 10-19 year old would say no to a couple months of Boy Scout type camping mixed in with exercise, firearms education, etc. Too many young men are wasting their youth sitting in their houses alone all day.

Boy Scouts are pretty much dead. Even before all of the PC stuff slithered it’s way in, we were only allowed to do outdoors type stuff once every year or so. Most of my memories from that time period are standing infront of Walmart trying to sell popcorn.

Hunting taught me patience Firearms taught me to respect weapons and authority Camping taught me self sufficiency and reliance

Honestly, anything that is considered “manly” and can be spent with a positive male role model is 100% okay in my books

s00perhan5 · 2021-10-15T17:54:31+00:00

All the jocks and sporty guys I know seem generally happier with life and frequently have girlfriends. I don't know any Inc*l jocks - they're all moving in with women and having kids by their mod thirties.

Men need a healthy way to be aggressive and competitive and sport does that for them. They also look better and have better mental health from the exercise.

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Paliant · 2021-10-15T16:30:49+00:00

I don’t believe conscription would give men the drive to keep physically fit. Kids are learning so much useless garbage in school right now. (For boys at least) There should be greater focus on physical activities and survival / life skills (gardening, hunting, fishing, doing taxes) for both genders.

Sagittarius_AAA · 2021-10-15T16:31:43+00:00

Besides the fact that, you could never actually implement this? I guess it might help some people.

But isn't this a gender stereotype that all men are supposed to be this way? People say they don't like gender stereotypes, but it's usually as it applies to women and not men for some odd reason.

Auto66 · 2021-10-15T16:43:28+00:00

I feel that it could, but perhaps not enough.

LowValueMail · 2021-10-15T16:55:57+00:00

It provides avenues for socialization, structure, and concrete goals so sure it could’ve helped. Those are generally good things. Lots of other things provide those too though and I don’t think the military is any better than the other options. Probably worse.

Matt_Door · 2021-10-15T17:29:21+00:00

Yes, agree. It was beneficial in my case as some one who grew up with little to no male figures. As a teen i was in Air Cadets, and loved it.

lulll · 2021-10-15T17:59:06+00:00

sending men to mandatory military programs is like sending women to mandatory 'how to be a thot' program. it's not that good. south korea has mandatory military service and the men there aren't exactly known for exuding manliness

Blackheart201992 · 2021-10-15T18:15:03+00:00

Possible, but unlikely. The thing about military training is that it's effectively high school 2.0 - a lot of nerds who enlist hoping it'll "toughen them up" just get chewed up and spat back out, having learned nothing in the process (drummed out for ineptitude, mental problems, whatever). Not every man is cut out to be a Chad or Chadlite - society has to provide these men with an avenue to fulfill their biological imperatives in spite of this, not try to break them apart and remake them into something they're not.

DeliciousPussyNectar · 2021-10-15T19:15:13+00:00

Yes, it teaches boys to become men.

There seems to be a lot of confusion around this lately.

Fridric_Magnus · 2021-10-15T19:51:45+00:00

I think incorporating a series of programs starting from elementary school and concluding in highschool meant to train people as a competent civilian militia (so fitness, martial arts, firearms training, basic tactics and strategy, as well as various forms of natural disaster relief) would be generally socially healthy, plus instill a greater sense of autonomy and dignity in everyone. Our society is tailored to drag people down and make them weak; this might help ameliorate that.

I'd also want to pair this with more comprehensive education in arts and humanities, since it's through these things that we give life value and meaning, but there'd first have to be a movement to counter the suffocating progressive bullshit that's permeated these fields.

ilovepetya · 2021-10-15T19:58:10+00:00

So now the women and bluepillers on this sub want to send young men to workcamps. LMFAO. Great

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-10-15T16:14:36+00:00

Different styles for different folks but overall male leader for guys at a young age needs to improve

"Toxic masculinity " is not a real thing and the facts so many young boys are having that fake concept beaten into their heads is sad. And reinforcing things like the boy scouts, 4H, having the boys club mentality, etc., needs to happen and of course the key thing, fathers, the single mother hood rate is off the charts, combine that with the public education indoctrination system being overwhelmingly women and boom

So the military / ROTC could be useful for boys that age for sure but the issue is even earlier

hardallthetime33 · 2021-10-15T16:22:58+00:00

Discipline is the most important thing of them all. That's what is severely lacking among men today, thanks to this bitchmade society we live in that fails to instil the basic essence of masculinity in men. Youre either predisposed to it or not. Tough shit if you're not.

abaxeron · 2021-10-15T17:01:36+00:00

When done right, it can quite literally be difference between life and death. For a man, healthy physique is a key component of longevity, much more than for a woman. When done right, such a training program can be organized in a way that it will be beneficial for absolutely everyone involved.

I went through compulsory military service in Eastern Europe and saw it done wrong. We were treated not like a vessel to be filled or a torch to be lit, but like free labor force to be utilized.

Cobra_x30 · 2021-10-15T16:30:39+00:00

There are a couple of things that boys need, which our female centric society does not care to provide anymore. Boys need guidance, direction, and meaning for their lives. Every past society inherently understood this and took great pains to ensure it was available for them, because boys become men and men determine the power and enegery of a nation. No nation has ever been built by female power... and as we currently are experience Gynocentrics can't even be bothered to protect their own borders.

So, you idea is actually VERY good and would actually help entire swaths of our population to improve themselves. It's not just a physical thing, the camraderie, social skills, and ability to deal with adversity would also increase dramatically.

Unfortuneatly... this will never happen and if it did, women would invade this space almost immediately and ruin it.

back_in_blyat · 2021-10-15T17:45:34+00:00

I am only a man because of what I went through in combat sports/fraternity/military. I was absolutely pathetic before then and 100% agree that we should normalize and encourage this.

A young man not engaging in anything that you mentioned is due to a failure in parenting more than anything though.

yuckyuck13 · 2021-10-15T18:22:07+00:00

Sports were actually created to keep military age men in shape in times of peace. With the growing obesity epidemic, increased children without a father figure and shaming of boys has slowly created the problem of boys failing to grow up and become the adults they were meant to be.

kyle_fall · 2021-10-15T18:30:43+00:00

100%. Probably not mandatory but men need to be trained on how to use their bodies and minds. Most men fool themselves into thinking they're useless which causes the phone victim-mentality/incel phenomenon.

If you get through this and realize that you're a ridiculously strong creature and your kind has taken over continents then writing upset comments on an internet forum about how women don't like you starts to become a little bit silly.

rivetcitymayor · 2021-10-15T16:40:47+00:00

Lmao or… just go to a gym, do boxing, wrestling or whatever

PMmeareasontolive · 2021-10-15T17:36:40+00:00

No, but some voluntary thing like the old Civilian Conservation Corps might be good. They went out and did public works projects during the depression, often in wilderness areas, etc. So it got people out of their milieu, maybe gave them a skill?, fed them, etc (I'm not sure if or how much they got paid).

edit: actually, free college at any age would probably be better.

mf9769 · 2021-10-15T18:52:27+00:00

Yes and no. I come from a military family, though I never served. To give more background, in the USSR, service was mandatory at age 18, as it is in Israel, but beyond that I have multiple career military in my family (both officers and noncoms, including a few generals), both ex-soviet and current and ex-IDF. To say it instilled certain ideals in them? Nah. Not at all. Most of them wanted to get in, do their 2-3 years and get out, preferably without getting sent to Afghanistan like my father in law was. Did they learn skills? Also not really. My dad learned how to mend clothing and do construction work (Soviet senior officers routinely borrowed privates to do light contracting work for them, usually paying them with lunch or a bottle or two). But what it did do was, indeed, create bonds of friendship between men. 2 of my dad's closest friends, to this day, are his buddies that served with him, one of whom is making it all the way out to my wedding, despite now living a few thousand miles away. There were dozens of my brother in law's friends at his funeral, most of whom served with him. It also creates a shared point of reference for men. My dad and my father in law can reminisce about their army days despite never having served together, because they shared the core experiences.

I personally was a fraternity brother in college. Of my groomsmen, 3 are my fraternity brothers and the other two are my cousin and my wife's younger brother. So that was useful in creating friendships, too. But again, ideals? Not so much. Sure, some people imbibe the fratboy lifestyle (think 45), but for the most part fraternities were about getting drunk, high and laid. Once you graduate college, there's more important things to do, except the getting laid part.

So yeah, yes and no for me. Yes because of the bonds, but not because you want to instill some sort of ideals into them. Most people just want to do this thing and move on.

TodTheRod01 · 2021-10-16T04:50:22+00:00

I would think making fitness/sports more accessible, more common practice and not taking them away from schools, as in taking away P.E. would go further.

Bergensis · 2021-10-16T09:22:50+00:00

Nope, nope, nope.

WilliamWyattD · 2021-10-16T13:26:26+00:00

In today's age, mandatory military service is not usually the best way to go unless the country truly needs that type of conscription. Most do not, including the US.

That said, men have traditionally benefited more from, and even needed, more formal and organized groups and traditions to help then properly acculturalize.

But before we do that, we need a conversation about creating a modern ideal of masculinity that is well adapted to both the modern world and male and female innate traits. We can't build men that women do not want to sleep with. There is room to maneuver within the limits imposed by inherent psychological traits, but not infinite room.

Once we have a good modern conception of positive masculinity, we absolutely should use more organized organizations to help men reach that ideal. There could and should be a variety of groups to help different types of males. However, one also has to recognize that this ideal will naturally suit some men more than others. That doesn't mean every guy who doesn't naturally fit the ideal well should just give up and 'be himself'. Quite the opposite. That means in most of these cases you will have to be more brutal and even cruel to work that 'square peg' into the 'round hole' of the ideal as far as you can. That's how these things work: the world won't change it's expectations because you are different.

Now, there are going to be some outlier guys for whom none of this will work. Even groups specialized for bringing this type of guy as close to the male standard as possible won't work. It will have to be a judgment call. But when you do exclude this guy from the masculinization process, it needs to be done with a clear-eyed understanding of what this will cost. This guy will struggle more to succeed in life and with women.

The West has gotten too soft. We need some channeled barbarian energy to revitalize it. This starts with the men. But toxic masculinity also exists, so it is a careful balance to rejuvenate the raw barbarian male energy in our men but not have it become toxic or anti-female. Achieving this balance may require injecting some concepts of the divine male and female, including complementarity, into the curriculum, though without any supernatural baggage.

Many Red Pill concepts would fit well into the curriculum, though dialed back in the details to what we actually have a high degree of certainty in. Also, the TRP concepts need to be stripped of moralizing or anger or resentment. And all of this needs to be taught with an eye to making sure they are adaptive to whatever social situation we have.

upalse · 2021-10-16T14:42:08+00:00

Proxies? Like vidya?

SkookumTree · 2021-10-16T19:32:44+00:00

I don't know. I think that things like volunteer firefighting, EMS work, and sports are very different from military training and especially combat. You don't expect to see your friends die on the soccer field, you aren't training to kill some mother's son as a firefighter. You are going to be cutting them out of cars with the jaws of life far more than you will be running into burning buildings.

Holler4Heller · 2021-10-20T02:30:57+00:00

If we accept the notion that men want to be loved and women can’t do that then nothing really has meaning period anymore

KarmaChameleonian · 2021-10-15T16:06:11+00:00

Yeah they should. It can give men a sense of direction and purpose as well as comradery from being in a large group.

If it is going to be a mandatory, then those same men should get priority consideration after finishing their tenure and entering the workforce, because they’ve out of the workforce for 2+ years. Otherwise, they’ll lag behind in the job market as a result of serving the nation. However, women will not have this as they want concessions, but are not willing to sacrifice in order to receive any.

Anyone using the argument of “it’ll just make men more dangerous” is incredibly stupid. Might as well not let men go to th gun range, learn martial arts, or go the gym, and just let them be skinny-fat redditors playing with a Switch all day.

Mrs_Drgree · 2021-10-15T16:12:06+00:00

[permanently deleted]

cloudydays84 · 2021-10-15T17:34:26+00:00

Maybe, but not if it's mandatory.

I've been doing martial arts since I was 11 and it has all that good stuff: physical activity, positive male influences, male camaraderie, tangible goals, etc. I would spend 2-4 days a week getting punched, kicked, and thrown around but I didn't care because it was fun to me (and it better have been considering i/my mom was paying for it).

You don't really get to enjoy the benefits if you're sitting there thinking about why you don't want to be there.

Title	Do you think military-style programs from adolescence through late teens could have improved the lives of many manospherians?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	33
Comments	320
Date	October 15, 2021 3:50 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/q8r8x3/do_you_think_militarystyle_programs_from/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/do-you-think-military-style-programs-from.1079352 https://theredarchive.com/post/1079352

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