What is your opinion on the new Oklahoma abortion law.

turtleman2233 · 2022-04-07T13:35:53+00:00

The abortion argument right now is like comparing apples to oranges. One side believes it is the women's choice, and the other side believes that the baby is human. The other side to "it's the woman's choice" is "it isn't the woman's choice. And the other side to "the baby is human" is "the baby isn't human."

Edit: I mispoke, I meant to say fetus. (Or baby, or whatever you see fit.)

Edit 2: I don't know what I'm saying, apparently.

ProphetOfChastity · 2022-04-07T13:05:31+00:00

Philosophically I am pro-choice. However in recent years I have decided that I will not advocate or speak in favour of the availability of abortion. Two reasons for this:

I won't support women's legal ability to obtain an abortion unless or until men have a similar legal capacity. By that I mean men should be able to have "paper abortions" and sign a binding document which terminates all paternal rights and responsibilities (child support etc.). This right to have a paper abortion should exist for the same period of time that a woman can have her abortion. It is equality. That way no one becomes a parent unwillingly. And if a man is told "too bad, no paper abortion for you, if you didn't want to have a child then you shouldn't have had sex" then women get the same response.
In the last two years of covid I have witnessed virtually every pro choice, pro bodily autonomy person I know turn into ruthless authoritarians about covid lockdowns and vax/mask mandates. It has become apparent to me that the much vaunted value of autonomy isn't really the driver for pro choice sentiment since autonomy gets thrown out the window so harshly in other cases. As such, while I personally think personal autonomy is am important value philosophically, I won't treat it like a significant value in political policy debates since it seems to have become an cheap rhetorical device/excuse which is only selectively invoked.

NoBrick444 · 2022-04-07T11:59:52+00:00

Generally speaking I find abortion unethical, but it's not the govt's business either, it's the family's business.

I understand that there are all sorts of pregnancy complications where they have to perform an abortion to save the mother's life, or where the fetus was just never going to be viable.

These are heartbreaking medical decisions, family decisions, not govt decisions.

That being said, I'm not the one giving birth so I tend to keep my mouth shut about abortion, I don't support or oppose it.

I tend to vote R because I'm a fiscal conservative, I hate inflation and high taxes.

Throwawaysei95 · 2022-04-07T18:12:42+00:00

It’s ridiculous. Abortion should be legal for sure. But at the same time, birth control and sex education needs to be provided more often. Teaching abstinence only is ridiculous. Teenagers don’t know what they are doing. You’ll see this a lot in low income areas. Also, teenagers with hyper religious parents are going to sneak around so they don’t get caught. And then they end up pregnant. We shouldn’t just be shouting abstinence on them. They need resources and more education so they know exactly what they are getting into. And so they can be prepared. When I was in school, we barely learned anything and were told to stay abstinent. Lots of couples got pregnant and lot of them were very misinformed.

RubMobile2126 · 2022-04-07T12:29:37+00:00

If women want us to stick up for their "reproductive rights" how about returning the favor a little. At least help men change the laws that allow women to rape young boys and get child support from him.

Albert_Camus129 · 2022-04-07T11:16:44+00:00

Bodily autonomy is a human right

Dirk_94 · 2022-04-07T12:56:36+00:00

Sauce? Not everyonw lives in america Oklahoma :)

FastFourierTerraform · 2022-04-07T13:38:30+00:00

Once again, feminists have declared a national emergency over the prospect of having the same rights as men, and I think it's fucking hilarious.

I'd be down to enshrine the right to opt out of parenthood, but only if it includes everyone. Unfortunately feminists find the thought of human rights for men to be an abhorrent prospect, so I don't see that going anywhere anytime soon.

thcottimusprime · 2022-04-07T18:06:15+00:00

Hands down a shit law.

jmcsquared · 2022-04-07T13:21:05+00:00

I see nothing unethical about 1st trimester abortions before fetuses develop consciousness. So, since it makes every single abortion a felony, this bill is way too much.

duhhhh · 2022-04-07T11:27:17+00:00

Is it a law? I thought it just passed the house. Still has to get through the senate and governor, no?

I'd much rather see universl rights for anyone not to be forced into unwanted parental responsibilities added rather than taking away half the options for women. While this a step towards equality, it's the wrong direction.

VeteranOfDepression · 2022-04-07T18:07:12+00:00

I'd say that women should be able to have abortions, but men should be able to give up parental rights and not have to pay a dime.

YUPitsME_RICK · 2022-04-07T13:36:24+00:00

this is something for which my ideologies align with feminists. u cant force someone to go through the struggles of pregnancy. it is completely a matter of choice.

CawlinAlcarz · 2022-04-07T12:47:10+00:00

It will never hold up to SCOTUS scrutiny. It's dumb grandstanding, but I think it's an effort to swing back at the dems who are going after 2A with the same sort of vigor and malice.

FWIW, I am generally opposed to abortion, but I understand that not everyone shares my own morality. I blelieve abortion should be allowed, particularly in the first trimester. After that, it should be for medical emergencies only.

Political grandstanding aside, I feel like we would be better off spending resources on education and low cost birth control than going after abortion.

jamesbwbevis · 2022-04-07T13:45:51+00:00

Strongly against. I support abortion

StinkingDischarge · 2022-04-07T14:30:30+00:00

I dont have a uterus so I'm not qualified to have an opinion, right?? Right?? So I dont have a dog in this fight. Women, you're on your own with this one.

MagentaLove · 2022-04-07T15:52:26+00:00

I think an acceptable line is that abortions should be legal up until the fetus could survive outside the womb, which I believe is around 24 weeks.

I cannot support any law that restricts or complicates beyond that line, even as a 'revenge' tactic because men can't get a 'paper abortion'. It's a bad argument to withhold rights earned by another because you are also pushing for your own.

OldEgalitarianMRA · 2022-04-07T11:33:34+00:00

Many women lost their life and hospitals were full of women with complications of back room abortions. I support abortion on the first trimester.

bibkel · 2022-04-07T18:02:28+00:00

It would help to post it, as not everyone is from Oklahoma or watches the news.

doomsday1021 · 2022-04-07T20:35:28+00:00

The only reason they outlawed it was probably because too many people from Texas kept going to their state just for abortions which is illegal depending on what state your from… every state is different 🤷🏻‍♂️

lostcymbrogi · 2022-04-08T00:53:34+00:00

Regardless of your opinion it should be pointed out that this poll is misleading. It isn't law yet. It still has a couple of hurdles to cross before it actually becomes law.

3-1-3-mamma · 2022-04-08T03:54:20+00:00

Murdering babies is evil. Every time.

elebrin · 2022-04-07T13:07:03+00:00

Ultimately, I want abortion to be legal. I don't like abortion and I am very judgmental of the women I know who have had them, but it needs to be legal because I don't see it as a valid justification for harassing people over. We don't need the police knocking on people's door because they think someone had an abortion three years ago or because someone asked a question online about their options for an unwanted pregnancy.

For me, I want it to be legal because I don't think it's a valid excuse for enforcement to harass people, and I also don't want dangerous backalley abortions killing people.

I'd rather see a society that encourages young people to get married and start their family right away. Want to prevent incels AND crazy extreme feminists? Give young people LOTS of motivation to pair off and start families, so that they grow together and have a support network of family. My hypothesis is this: if we had the expectation that most people are married by 20 and have kids by 22, we'd have different problems but some of our current ones would be lessened in strength. Serious relationships that are sexual in nature would end up married relationships, and children would be considered good news rather than the death knell for your future.

FaceYourEvil · 2022-04-07T13:35:19+00:00

Fucking disgusting. It's not as bad as texas though where you can collect a 10k bounty for snitching about an abortion.

ManofGod1000 · 2022-04-07T13:06:16+00:00

Our opinion is typically irrelevant, things are going to happen the way they happen and that is that. Otherwise, why is the fathers right to have that child born irrelevant? (We already know the answer so.......)

timeslidesRD · 2022-04-07T14:27:53+00:00

Providing its done early enough its fine.

big_wing · 2022-04-07T17:54:06+00:00

I used to live in Oklahoma. I dodged a bullet thanks to abortion. I'm glad I escaped that evangelical hellscape.

XandogxD · 2022-04-07T21:33:18+00:00

Isn’t it funny how by giving “women the right to abort” you are removing the right for the fetus to live?

Which one is more important? The life of a potential human being? Or that women get to have sex without having children?

Yeah I said it.

Le_ed · 2022-04-07T16:49:35+00:00

Nothing weirder than a bunch of men bleating about men's rights voting to curtail women's rights out of petulance.

And sure, eliminating the right to abortion will do SO much for men paying child support...

SheSeesSounds · 2022-04-07T14:31:39+00:00

What are we trying to accomplish here? Rather what are we thinking we're trading? Less fetus deaths for more what? children born.
What are we likely to actually be trading for? mother deaths or more criminals or more welfare or larger families( aren't a chunk of abortions from pre existing families decision?)...or what say you?

Potato-with-guns · 2022-04-07T18:37:24+00:00

I mean who gives a shit, when you cut yourself do you mourn the skin and muscle that died? The white blood cells that were lost keeping you safe and healthy? Why should an embryo or a fetus or whatever stage it is in be different?

Ihaveaparrot · 2022-04-07T15:55:24+00:00

Like or not a fetus is:

A human, DNA test can prove this

Alive. Biologically a fetus is considered alive by virtually all metrics.

You don’t get to kill a human life for convenience.

skirted_dork · 2022-04-07T16:28:15+00:00

If men were the ones getting pregnant, abortion would be illegal everywhere

Fean2616 · 2022-04-07T17:05:43+00:00

I'm shocked at the amount that like it.

IamLilPump · 2022-04-07T18:10:43+00:00

this thread reminds me of who redditors are

2022-04-07T19:49:57+00:00

[permanently deleted]

C-Dub178 · 2022-04-07T16:26:26+00:00

I support it only because from the moment of conception to birth, you can’t draw any line that can’t also be drawn to a grown human where it’s okay to kill. Not sentient? What about people in comas? Can’t survive on its own? People on life support.

Ashton-MD · 2022-04-08T03:14:25+00:00

This may get me downvoted, but I may offer my opinion, I believe that all life is valuable and that would include the fetus/baby. This fact is brought out in the Bible, even in the Mosaic Law that if harm came to a pregnant woman, but the baby wasn’t lost, the guilty party would have to pay compensation to the family. If the baby was lost, the guilty party would receive the death penalty. To me, this shows that life should be viewed as precious and valuable, and that God himself views it as so.

To me, the willful act of abortion is a form of murder. If you’re willing to have sex, you have to be ready and mature enough to accept all the consequences, no matter what they may be. This can include, but is not limited to, STD/STIs, emotional roller coaster, and naturally, the possibility of pregnancy.

Of course, victims of rape get my full sympathy and condolences. No person should ever be subjected to such indignity and disgusting behaviour. It’s truly a vile thing to do. But to those who suffered through such trauma, first, I’d like to say, talk to a professional. Get therapy. You’re a beautiful human being, and deserve to heal.

However, even for rape victims, I personally do not condone abortion. The baby/fetus may be a visible reminder of the horror that person experienced, but that child is in no way responsible for those actions. To blame them and end their life doesn’t solve the problem but rather compounds that issue.

This is of course, what I believe and I don’t judge the choices other people make. I believe that we are all responsible for the decisions we make. I personally would rather be guilty of being self-disciplined and controlled, so that I never put a person in such a position, as opposed to adamantly insisting on my so called “rights” and doing whatever I wanted. So while I can personally never condone or recommend an abortion, except in the case when the woman’s body rejects the fetus independently of medical assistance (or in other accidental circumstances), I would never attempt to control someone else’s decision either.

Put another way, I choose not to smoke because I know the health risks. That doesn’t mean I try and forces others to quit. I encourage them to if they choose to do so of their own accord, but I would never judge them if they continue to smoke. Similarly with abortions, I have my own personal opinion and believe that others should make their own personal choice.

toastyhoodie · 2022-04-07T10:59:26+00:00

Less abortion is much better

ThrowawayGhostGuy1 · 2022-04-07T13:28:34+00:00

Women should have the same freedom of choice that men have.

DoppelGangHer88 · 2022-04-07T17:11:32+00:00

I'll never understand why someone who supports men's rights would support women having unilateral power over life and death; yet another way to cement men's second-class status in society.

Important_Market2512 · 2022-04-07T19:39:06+00:00

Abortion is murder

MirrorofInk · 2022-04-07T11:22:04+00:00

I was pro-choice for quite a while, but now my political stance is whatever is the antithesis of anyone who votes Democrat or supports the disgusting "social justice" movement. I'll be voting Republican in every election for the rest of my life. It's the only way to restore sanity and preserve the culture and values that have made America the greatest nation that has ever existed.

AishiFem · 2022-04-07T22:57:15+00:00

I love this law. A bit extreme but still on the right track.

TrilIias · 2022-04-07T15:52:32+00:00

As an Oklahoman, I love this bill.

ghostjava · 2022-04-07T23:37:01+00:00

It is disgusting.

soukidan1 · 2022-04-07T15:31:55+00:00

Anything that stands in the way of infant murder is great in my book. Pro-life all the way. What really needs to be done is a repeal of Roe v Wade

Bland-fantasie · 2022-04-07T13:52:11+00:00

If our perception was that nearly everybody thought abortion was bad, none of us individually would be pro-abortion.

It’s been normalized as a good thing, but only under threat. It’s easier to just get along and buy the incomplete, half-developed arguments for it. Opposing the tribe has a cost, and elements of the tribe have made being anti-abortion a taboo.

Specifically, elements of our tribe have made it clear that opposition to their point of view on this issue will result in your own destruction at their hands, and they will blame you for “making them” do it.

What does an abortion procedure actually involve at 7-9 months? Is that use of knives a good thing?

daylight_stalker · 2022-04-07T17:51:05+00:00

We really shouldn't just be freely letting women get abortions imo without any consequences because I feel that it just enables them to make bad choices.

A woman gets to choose who she wants to be with, who she wants to have sex with, ect. And they get alot of options just go look at any girls Instagram or Facebook and you will see tons of guys that would take her up on a date.

So when a woman gets pregnant with the wrong person or at the wrong time then she needs to held herself accountable for her actions. She chooses whether or not to have sex with that person and if it ends up being the wrong guy then that should be her fault and therefore she needs to be held accountable for her actions.

Women should know full well that if she has sex even protective sex she knows what could happen and she shouldn't just use an abortion to fall back on when she accidentally gets pregnant.

smegma_tears32 · 2022-04-07T12:44:00+00:00

Based, anything that makes the feminists mad is good

ImJustHereForCorn · 2022-04-07T16:06:46+00:00

I say if they want to do it, then go for it. It's their state and I'm betting the vast majority of people here on Reddit who are commenting on it, aren't even from or are living in Oklahoma, so what does it do to you? Nothing. It doesn't directly impact you whatsoever and if a woman really wants an abortion that badly, go to the surrounding states or a state that allows it.

moneymaster69 · 2022-04-07T22:32:05+00:00

The more babies we have, the more Elon Musks we could have. This is the best argument against abortion.

HikuroMishiro · 2022-04-07T23:37:59+00:00

I don't really care. For the most part discussions here are just going to echo generic abortion discussions everywhere else and have been happening for decades.

Regardless of anyone's opinions on the matter, if you make abortion illegal you are removing a persons rights and bodily autonomy. If you let it be legal you are removing an unborn persons rights and bodily autonomy. Regardless of which side you support there is no 'best' answer and while it's fine to support one side or the other both sides have valid points. There's a reason why the matter is left to the states and not the federal government.

The more annoying thing to me is laws like this that only punish one group and not everyone involved. Not that I'm necessarily for fining women in these states that have these laws, but punishing the doctor and not the person coming in looking for the abortion is ridiculous.

BigRedditPlays · 2022-04-07T18:44:26+00:00

Abortion is murder. Period. Happy to see it go.

2022-04-07T13:28:40+00:00

An abortion law is for me good if the man can decide too if he wants to abort the child. It’s unethical to still force the male if he needs to pay 18 years of his life for the child he never wanted. Until this isn’t fixed any law will be bad

Medforus · 2022-04-07T22:04:31+00:00

If only it designated only male babies to be killed.

DipsandChip · 2022-04-07T13:08:16+00:00

What we really need is a ban on hormonal birth control. That shit is KNOWN to cause all sorts of psychiatric disorders most commonly depression as well as mess with the type of man women are attracted to. I stay away from women on birth control.

The reason why this should be the government's prerogative is that the government needs to set the rule for issues like this. Think about it. If murder wasn't outlawed, a whole lot more people would be murdered each year with no penalty. The people who really want to do it are still going to do it. The average man and woman of America, however, won't.

Atheisthater42069 · 2022-04-07T13:37:16+00:00

What is the bill?

TheConsumateCracker · 2022-04-07T15:30:33+00:00

In v mmm.

No-Mathematician-579 · 2022-04-07T15:54:51+00:00

Didn't know there was one- if someone wants to summarize/link it'd be nice

PsychoBoy26 · 2022-04-07T16:12:16+00:00

I'm not from America so I'm just gonna stand here and do nothing

dylan21502 · 2022-04-07T19:47:21+00:00

What's the new law?

XandogxD · 2022-04-07T21:30:01+00:00

If an abortion is the termination of a fetus, then the fetus dies, the fact that you HAVE to describe it separately from the mothers body is PROOF that it’s separate!

Mothers aren’t aborted, the fetus is. And if the fetus is terminated, then does the mother as well? Cause there are other medical terms for the death of an organ or body part. But termination is in direct alignment with the conscious ending of a living beings life.

If it is a woman’s body then we need to stop referencing the fetus as a separate entity. We need to reference the mother as 3,6 or 9 months along. Not the fetus. Because at that point you are allocating a determined age to a body part. We don’t do the same for other “organs”, yet we recognize that the fetus has its own physical growth regardless of the mother.

The fetus has is a body, growing, that it owns. We recognize this, we act on this, but we don’t TALK about this!

I here so often something along the lines of, “the fetus was 4 and 1/2 months along, and so at that point we decided to abort.”

First of all you recognized it as an entity SEPARATE of the mother, you give it an at age for which to estimate it’s growth and potential growth, and you reference terminating it in a way as the mother is not terminated.

If you REALLY believe that a fetus, excuse me, BABY, is really apart of the mothers body you need to talk about the mother as the subject, the conscious being, talk about the fetus as an organ, use dialogue that expresses its removal in a medical way without the context of a living breathing human as being murdered, and to talk about its growth as a factor of the mothers pregnancy, not it’s age

ThrowAway640KB · 2022-04-08T07:31:16+00:00

I am all for any abortion law that provides equal rights to both men and women.

I am against any abortion law that promotes the abilities and rights of one gender above the other.

We are still short, technologically speaking, if the man wants to keep the baby but the woman doesn’t - artificial wombs are not quite a thing just yet - but the ability to “abort” a baby can be done by both genders to a relatively equivalent threshold, with the man conducting a paper abortion to divest himself of all legal entanglements with the child.

PQKN051502 · 2022-04-08T09:13:40+00:00

I am pro-choice

Yennavere · 2022-04-08T10:02:01+00:00

People like the Oklahoma abortion law until they get a woman in Okalahoma pregnant, lmao.

SuperManicMondayz · 2022-04-08T17:28:51+00:00

what you guys arent realizing is that a fetus is a parasite

SnooKiwis5976 · 2022-04-08T19:10:11+00:00

I dislike it because what happens a lot of the time is the child's life is ruined He is abused, beaten and bullied because he was unwanted and some of these parents who don't know condoms do not even earn, this is ultimately worse for the child imo abortion should be allowed

ChadWolf98 · 2022-04-09T10:27:31+00:00

For the PC men here beiing pro life lets men have much more agency. If they want to be a dad, they are saved from their wanted child being killed, if the woman dont want to be a parent and neither you you can put the kid up for adoption.

Men win with pro life laws

Microtart · 2022-04-12T19:44:47+00:00

The question to be asked is who is taking care of the babies that are born with severe defects or the children of rape and incest where the mother wants to disassociate completely, children born with foetal alcohol syndrome or drug withdrawal?

Will adoptive parents be told fully of the child’s history? Does the state have procedures in place to cope with the influx of abandoned children or those deemed at risk by social services?

What happens if someone dies during childbirth, will compensation be payable?

Will the suicide rate go up?

Has anyone in government made proviso for these and any other future considerations or are they going to pretend it just won’t happen?

They can congratulate themselves on their blanket ban as much as they like but it shouldn’t become legal until they have all the answers written in stone

Appropriate-Link-678 · 2022-04-14T17:44:43+00:00

I think it’s a dumb law because it doesn’t do anything. All it does is upset liberals that believe in pro-choice, and alienate moderates that also believe in pro-choice. This won’t drop the amount of abortions in Oklahoma residents. People will either go to other states to get abortions, or they’ll get them illegally which is even worse than if it was legal because then not only will you be getting rid of the fetus, the mother could also die from a botched illegal abortion. This isn’t something that 40+ a year-old white men should be deciding for other people. This really shows how out of touch they are.

Title	What is your opinion on the new Oklahoma abortion law.
Author	Pr0X_JoshiGuy
Upvotes	91
Comments	487
Date	April 7, 2022 10:56 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/tyagtu/what_is_your_opinion_on_the_new_oklahoma_abortion/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/what-is-your-opinion-on-the-new-oklahoma-abortion.1110925 https://theredarchive.com/post/1110925

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