People who say sex is a need don’t understand what needs are.

wtknight · 2022-11-26T14:13:58+00:00

Flaired CMV as this post is making an affirmative claim

Paranoidexboyfriend · 2022-11-26T14:23:39+00:00

I agree sex isn't a "need" on the level of food, water, and shelter. And that the comparison to arms and legs is a dumb one.

You are using the definition of "need" as something 100% vital to survival that a person will perish quickly without. The people saying sex is a need are using the term "need" as essential to a person's emotional, physical and mental health. Others saying sex is a need/necessity mean it is essential to a healthy well rounded relationship. All are correct uses of the term. In english the same word can have multiple meanings. No one is wrong here.

I put "sex as a need" on the same level as talking to someone as a need. No one owes anyone a verbal response to someone else's questions or declarations. You won't die if everyone refuses to talk to you. But if everyone ignored you completely and refused to talk to you for a long time, that would mess you up in the head pretty badly. And if you're in a relationship with a person, and they refuse to talk to you at all, that relationship is doomed and will mess both parties up in the head.

Same with sex. If the entire planet refuses you sexual intimacy, or you're in a relationship and your partner wont be intimate with you at all, its going to mess you up pretty bad. You won't die, but you wont be healthy. So its a need to be a healthy functioning person, not a need as in you'll drop dead on the floor if you don't get it.

Ice0Fuchsia · 2022-11-26T14:44:15+00:00

I see what you’re saying OP. I do think it’s bullshit when people pressure others into sex because they “need” sex.

But I think one issue we have about if sex is a need is that our definition of need is very limited. I believe we can agree that humans need water, food, shelter, oxygen, and sleep. These are PHYSIOLOGICAL NEEDS. These are required to survive.

But let’s ask this. Do we need friends? Do we need self esteem? Do we need a sense of belonging? Do we need to be loved? Do we need freedom? Do we need entertainment?

In a sense of pure survival, we do not. But a human without these things is not living, but merely surviving. But I would say these are indeed needs, not for specifically survival but for a sense of true happiness that makes life worth living. I do believe that sex is a need that humans require to have a fulfilled life. It’s part of the human experience.

empresa_josefina · 2022-11-26T14:08:58+00:00

Sex is a need in the same way social interaction is a need. Put a guy in solitary confinement and he’ll eventually go insane. Make someone involuntary celibate for long enough and he’ll go insane too.

But I don’t get the point of this post. Let’s say you are 100% correct and sex is a want, like getting an iPhone. We still live in a society where some people get iPhones at will and can call their friends, play games, etc., and others get no iPhone or if they do, it took a year’s salary. What is it adding to the conversation to say “you don’t need an iPhone?”

These arguments would rightfully be called lazy and tone-deaf if it applied to any other issue. You don’t need parental leave, you don’t need a new library in your town, you don’t need quiet hours in your neighborhood, you don’t need equal opportunity in employment (definitely doesn’t kill you if you’re passed over in a job), etc etc etc.

childish_badda_bingo · 2022-11-26T14:47:09+00:00

If you’re stuck on the word “need”, then find another word. If your only definition of need is “required for physical survival”, your view is entirely too narrow. Human beings are far more complicated in what they need to be considered physically, mentally, and emotionally healthy.

eth_trader_12 · 2022-11-26T14:43:30+00:00

This is simply a strawman and a pedantic argument. When people use the word need for sex, they don’t mean it in a survival sense, although I myself don’t advocate for that term. Most humans “need” relationships with people to be happy but not to survive. It all depends on context.

As such, the entire premise of your post is wrong and what’s truly fascinating is you missing this point

HolyPenguine · 2022-11-26T16:27:21+00:00

"Essential" isn't even relevant. Governments meddle in markets all the time, including social markets with feminist campaigns. So why shouldn't governments intervene in favour of men?

WestCombSplit · 2022-11-26T13:46:49+00:00

I agree with what you're trying to say but you're technically wrong. Sex is needed for the continuation of the human species. It's one of the biggest needs for our species as a whole. The way to achieve that is by instilling that drive into each person. It's tied to intimacy which is also a need people have in order to be a functioning person in society

throwaway_2023_ · 2022-11-26T13:26:42+00:00

You're absolutely right. Sex is not a "need" and people who insist on this scare me. I am not asexual, I have my own sex drive. However, it is my own responsibility to act with self-control and I certainly am not going to die if I never have sex. Sex involves more than just one person, you are not entitled to demanding sex from anybody. You don't get to inconvenience others about it.

No-Rough-7390 · 2022-11-26T14:07:34+00:00

Sounds like someone is stuck with someone they aren’t attracted to… big yikes.

_demidevil_ · 2022-11-26T14:26:08+00:00

I think it’s important to highlight why sex being called a need is dangerous. It’s something men use to justify raping their wives. They genuinely believe they “need” to and it’s her “fault” that she’s not going along with it. This isn’t rare. It happened to my friend a few nights ago. It’s happened to me. RP men will claim that they don’t mean men should go out raping people, but the reality is that a lot of guys with this opinion will, which is why it’s so important to nip that in the bud.

Ahead of men’s sexual “needs” are women’s need for safety. Maybe when we have got that figured out we can worry about sexual frustration.

BigZaddyZ3 · 2022-11-26T13:25:58+00:00

Exactly. I was saying this exact thing in another thread from like a week or two ago. It’s alarming how many people don’t realize that wanting something means absolutely jackshit in life. The majority of us want millions of dollars. But who gives a shit, life goes on. It’s no different with sex.

gate18 · 2022-11-26T14:00:16+00:00

I agree that sex is not a need, but it doesn't add anything to anything!!

OP replied to this

Sex is a need in relationships

If the very foundation of your relationship is based on sex, you don’t have a relationship, you have a glorified fuck buddy.

I don't agree with that. For some sex is a foundation for a healthy relationship

BUT just as sex isn't a need, those relationships aren't a need (Which, as I said adds nothing to anything)

Even marriages aren't a need.

Water, food, and shelter, are a need. And with my moral compass, I think you do no wrong if you steal or trespass if need be. In Les Misérables Jean Valjean steals bread and he is hunted for it. I think he had every right to do so.

With sex the "need" or "desire" or "want" is not that kind.

You don't want a sexless marriage? I completely agree.

You don't want a sexless hookup? I completely agree.

But none of those are needs as those basics are.

Jordan Peterson advocated for mandatory marriages to help angry men.

I can't say it wouldn't fix the issue but no OTHER individual is obligated to give you their body in hopes that after fulfilling your "desire" that you think is a must/need, you'll calm down.

Green-Quantity1032 · 2022-11-26T14:21:47+00:00

It's long term damage.

Would you say drinking lead-poisoned water is ok just because the damage is long term?

I can totally see how for some people it's a need. It's not anyone else's responsibility to fulfill that need but their own.

And who cares about the word you use? People feel the urge and the repercussions of not having that urge met.

For some people it's just another facet of life they don't experience, for others it's death by 1000 cuts.

Anyway, I think this is missing the point - People shouldn't expect their needs/wants to be magically addressed by an amorphic "society".

You want girls calling you up for sex? Either accept you'll never be as hot as you need to be for this, or man up and try to be.

"BUT ONLY 5%!" shut the fuck up

WilliamWyattD · 2022-11-26T14:35:30+00:00

Trying to fight semantics wars over terms like 'need' or 'entitlement' seems like a rabbit hole best avoided.

Look at it from another perspective. It seems clearly best for the development and happiness of most heterosexual people to spend most of their lives in an intimate relationship or two with a member of the opposite sex. That intimate relationship will almost inevitably involve sex, which is important. But there are way more benefits than just the sex.

It's definitely not good for the average man to go unattached and sexless for most of his life. It is more than not good. It is very bad for him and society. This is just obvious.

Now, the bigger question is whether in free sexual market where male advantages have been removed, and resources are much less able to be leveraged to gain mate value, whether we can expect most men to be chosen by a woman over her other options, including remaining single. If it turns out that in such an environment, widespread monogamy is somehow not compatible with revealed (and perhaps even amplified) female sexual selectivity and hypergamy, then we have a problem.

At this point, it could (but hopefully will not) come down to choosing between two bad outcomes: widespread male sexlessness, and pressuring many women to pair with men they do not find sufficiently attractive and/or beneficial to pair with more voluntarily.

TempoIndigo · 2022-11-26T14:43:46+00:00

Sex isnt a need but your list of needs is also fucked up. You dont need electricity and clothes, mankind made due with fire and being hairier than normal for the vast majority of our species’ lifetimes

PolyAccount123 · 2022-11-26T14:48:17+00:00

No, sex is not a need in the sense that if that need is not satisfied you are going to die on short notice. For most people a somewhat satisfying sex life is a need to be genuinely happy in life however.

IntegrityDJones · 2022-11-26T16:02:32+00:00

Until I see an autopsy report that shows someone kicked the bucket for dry dick…. I will never believe it’s a need and it’s nothing more than justification for bad behavior. Or on PPD, why women should endure terrible sex with men who disgust and revolt them.

Men who think their weewees being undesired by anyone is then same as a poor starving child is some of the most entitled shit I’ve ever seen. Imagine seeing a child starving to death but going “well I cant ram my dick into a harem of hot women, so we’re all in the same boat here!”

BoogersAndSugar · 2022-11-26T19:24:12+00:00

I think the whole "sex is a need" meme is a red herring. The real need is feeling desired/wanted, having the knowledge that at least someone is genuinely attracted to you, NOT the sex act itself. Neither prostitution or sex robots will fix this. As for the guys who pressure a woman into sex and want to fuck someone who doesn't actually WANT them like that, maybe he's a sociopath, or has zero respect for her and just wants a hole to bust into. "Needs" ain't got shit to do with it.

Holden_Frame · 2022-11-26T20:53:40+00:00

Arguments like this are merely reductive straw men that refuse to acknowledge the holistic nature of organisms and more specifically the difference between the sexes and their biological imperatives.

Let's try this another way.

We know that, in order to run, a car needs fuel, oil, combustion and compression.

But this argument is basically saying the car doesn't "need" oil changes, but only "needs" fuel. Because fuel makes the car go. Without fuel, the car suddenly stops. Therefore, fuel is all that a car "needs" to be useful.

But you can go tens of thousands, and possibly even hundreds of thousands of miles without changing a car's oil.

When you do this however, what happens?

The oil very gradually breaks down and causes the piston rings to wear out, which isn't a big deal. Car still runs. Still not a need according to you.

As the oil becomes less effective, some of the engine components become noisy. The car performs just the same though. Not a need according to you.

Then the broken down oil causes the piston rings to slowly wear out allow some of that oil to leak into the combustion chamber and foul the spark plugs over time. Now the car starts running roughly, sputtering, but it still runs. Still not a "need" according to you.

Then the engine starts misfiring, and the pistons begin building up with carbon from inefficient combustion, causing smoke and pollution from that car. The car still runs. Still not a "need" according to you.

Then the spark plugs, coated in oil, lose effectiveness, until 2 of them don't even produce a spark at all. Still not a need according to you.

Eventually, the oil burns away. The car is limping along on 2 cylinders, but the car begins to overheat constantly because of all of the friction, but you can still get it to move and make it to the grocery store and back.

Finally, the overheating and worn components result in fuel backfiring, various leaks in the gaskets and finally an engine fire that consumes the entire vehicle where it burns to a husk on the side of the road.

Cars still don't "need" an oil change according to you.

Did I mention you drive an electric car?

In other news - women don't "need" treatment for things like postpartum depression and infertility because, well, their heart continues to beat and their lungs still draw air.

Deranged_Loner · 2022-11-26T14:02:50+00:00

I do agree sex is not a need. I would put sex on the level of good tasting food.

In order to sustain yourself you need to eat. However it doesn't exactly have to taste good. It just needs to be nutritious enough so you don't get malnutrition.

Same with sex. You don't need it. You can just masturbate if you want to release. But I assume most don't want to solely masturbate.

Think_History_5682 · 2022-11-26T14:41:41+00:00

This is a load of crap

Yeah you don't need running water you also don't need shelter if you live in a good climate just good clothing

you also don't need security.. You can live for a long time knowing death will come at any moment. Soldiers do it all the time

But to live optimally you need these things

And you need sex to live optimally

I challenge anyone to seek out any therapist and ask them in their opinion is the mental health of people having sex regularly better than tnose who are not getting it or rarely getting it

They will unequivocally tell you mentally you are more healthy getting it. Look at those people who are in their late 20s or older that have never had sex they are a mess for the most part

AGalWithThoughts · 2022-11-26T13:48:23+00:00

This rhetoric as sex being a "need" for men is often accompanied by some truly creepy talk about "biological urges" and "testosterone blah blah" which all sound like a dog whistle for men feeling entitled to act like creeps or sex-crazed perverts based on biological, animalist desires.

If you're an animal, you need to be in a cage. The rest of us in society can and should control our urges.

ViolentTakeByForce · 2022-11-26T13:23:53+00:00

Sex is a need in relationships to keep the relationship healthy. If you are going to diminish the statement by saying the only real needs in life are food, clothing, shelter and air, you have the right to do so but no one wants the bare minimum needed to survive.

And here’s the thing, we DO need sex on some level to keep our species going. Biologically it is part of a “need”. If sex isn’t valuable and necessary in a relationship, why would men get married? To be friends? I really don’t see a benefit especially with today’s laws regarding divorce.

And we know sex is important(and women recognize it) because the second a woman withholding sex finds out you had sex with another woman, chances are she will freak out and divorce you.

Edit: if we were observing the needs of a species(think National Geographic) we would look at their food and how the species procures its food and water, environment, and mating.

UidBb · 2022-11-26T14:48:25+00:00

I don't think sex is a need, its probably mostly a want, if sex was a need a lotta people would just visit sex workers and be done with it but seeing couple threads here before about men seeing escorts its clear that a lotta men don't so

szclimber · 2022-11-26T15:00:46+00:00

You are wrong. It's an important part of living a life worth living for many people.

JumboJetz · 2022-11-26T13:30:43+00:00

Being a Dictionary literalist yes.

But we use “need” for things that aren’t true needs as in we will die without it all the time.

A teacher saying to her class “I NEED you to be quiet during this lesson”. A person cooking dinner saying to their partner “I “NEED” you to go to the grocery store and get more salt because we are out”. Me telling a partner “I NEED you to respect my boundaries here”.

So sex as a need is in a similar vein. It’s something that makes life worth living for me. It’s not entitlement because I’m not saying “and therefore all women must have sex with me on command”. I’m willing to put in work to satiate this thing I want.

GroundbreakingGolf38 · 2022-11-26T13:43:15+00:00

Sex is the only thing that appears twice on Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs.

Slyfer_Seven · 2022-11-26T13:52:35+00:00

First, I assume you're using it as a noun, which defines a need as "something that is necessary". That statement requires the addition of clarifying what it is necessary for.

You're saying it's not necessary for survival, you are correct

They're saying it's necessary for their happiness, which they would be correct

This is clearly willful ignorance on both parties here...

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Ok-Expression7575 · 2022-11-27T02:13:39+00:00

Do they not teach Maslow's hierarchy of needs anymore?

https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html

2022-11-26T13:55:18+00:00

Sex is a need. It is the primal energy underpinning everything. Human relationships are a facet of where these needs may be expressed. Individuals do not Need sex is an interesting point, the species certainly does.

TermAggravating8043 · 2022-11-26T13:57:31+00:00

As a species we need to be having sex to procreate, but that doesn’t mean every individual deserves it.

If Your not good enough to attract a mate to produce offspring then it’s probably a good thing your genes aren’t being passed on. Our species will continue without you

Perfect_Promise_943 · 2022-11-26T14:23:50+00:00

I agree, sex is not a need. However, relationship now days are not about survival anymore. They are about love and being happy and healthy and in a compatible relationship.

Is sex needed in a relationship? No. Just like how love is not needed in a relationship, respect isn’t needed in a relationship, humor Isn’t needed in a relationship, same values aren’t needed in a relationship. None of those things are human needs. What they are is human desires that one particular person or even groups at large(obviously with exception) desires so much that for a relationship to work for them, it must have that.

calfshrug · 2022-11-26T15:20:52+00:00

If you put a woman (or man) into social isolation, they’ll go crazy. If you put a woman especially into a situation where there is specifically no validation and compliments, I bet that will drive them crazy even more favorably and speedy than it will do so to a man.

Likewise, lack of sex can do the same thing

caption291 · 2022-11-26T16:38:35+00:00

Humanity has spent more time without electricity than it did with. So it's clearly not a need for survival. If you're going to be pedantic about the definition of a need...you should be way more precise than that.

So the underlying reason that you could argue that electricity is a need is that it increases your life expectancy. But I doubt you want to define it that way because gues what else increases your life expectancy?

Anyways, needs don't exist without a goal. If the goal isn't stated, it's generally implied by the context. There is nothing you simply "need" without a goal and the possible goals aren't limited to survival. Survival is just a convergent instrumental goal so it comes up a lot to the point where talking about needs without specifying a goal implies were talking about what is needed for survival .

Don't give too much importance to the exact meaning of words because if words had exact meanings computers would understand us.

daddysgotanew · 2022-11-26T17:20:50+00:00

People lived for thousands and thousands of years without modern homes, healthcare, medicine, clothing, or purely clean water. You don’t need any of that shit either.

Everyone wants it though. It even affects how people vote.

You know what would have lasted thousands of years within the human race without sex?

Nothing.

pearllovespink · 2022-11-26T17:42:52+00:00

People say sex is a need because it’s been scientifically proven that people who have a healthy sex life are healthier and happier than people who don’t.

Fun_Push7168 · 2022-11-26T18:29:17+00:00

Drinking natural water is completely dangerous due to the possible impurities in there.

Shelter is always needed to fight against the elements, which helps your survival.

Electricity can be used to control the temperature in a house, which is important when you live in extreme weather.

You're just going the opposite direction here.

I have a well, it can be hand pumped and just as safe as plumbing it into the house.

Shelter≠house

I heat my house with a wood burning stove.

These are all modern convenience that people survived 99.999 percent of human history without. Except in the case of running water. It started showing up 99.99 percent of the way.

LadyofTheGreyPath · 2022-11-26T20:42:53+00:00

I have a high sex drive and typically, sorry not sorry for the TMI here, without self-control I would have to get myself off a few times a day sometimes seven times however I also don't like to make this a habit, so I exercise self-control. Does it suck that I don't have someone with me to help get me off? A little bit but I've managed this long. Do I think sex is a need that I'll somehow die without or be unhappy without? Not really, it sucked for a few minutes when I entertained the idea of never losing my virginity but that feeling faded after a few minutes. Do I think I'm owed sex, or do I think someone is obligated to fuck me just because I exist and happen to be breathing and a woman? Absolutely the fuck not, I lack the ego to believe that, and I don't have an inflated sense of self-worth either.

That being said, I can empathize with people who are sexless, but I don't have sympathy for people who make that the whole point of their personality or act like themselves personally not getting sex is some crime against humanity.

k_aevitas · 2022-11-26T23:25:13+00:00

Study biology and you will understand why sex by far is the BIGGEST Need of the human condition. It is far more complex than how you are addressing it.

What happens in war and makes the world go around? Money and sex. Think about it, like REALLY think about it. It's a multi underground billion trillion dollar business.

If you study biology, if you cut off the testicles off male creatures do you know what happens to them? Their fundamental drive to want to do anything else usually gets affected, annhiliated or at least drastically reduced. That's why you can't castrate soldiers, that's why the concept of castrated soldiers in game of thrones is total horseshit they would be the worst soldiers on the planet. In modern day times, making money, going up the corporate ladder etc you think those guys have low sex drives ? They have very high sex drives usually because it's all interconnected and in doing so they have a higher choice of mate selections which gives a higher chance for future children to have their genes to make the world be able to go around further. Without a sex drive most of humanity would have died off by now.

The desire for sex handles humanities fundamental crucial need at the dna base level right down to our cells, which is to procreate. This doesn't mean literally everyone is the same after all with billions of people in the world there are those who are asexual but they are less than 1 percent of the entire planet. We didn't get here this far without a sex drive. Ability and access to sex is tied down to someone's sense of self worth as well and status as well especially for a man. This has been since cave times, it's why women prefer men with experience who knows how to provide.

Research shows women find men MORE desirable when she sees he's taken even when he has kids, because it makes her believe he must be a good catch, and a good provider. Sex and testosterone are also linked together and testosterone is linked to having the aggression to get shit done. There are do many ways this can be rambled on further but this is the jist of it

Nincompoop6969 · 2022-11-27T08:16:00+00:00

You don't need free will either you could survive all limbs missing in a coma. Barely existing but still alive. But what's the point of that?

You don't need water unless you want to keep your job not smelling like piss. We actually do need power alot of us would die without it. Everything is done online now too and we need contact so phone still. Realistically you need all those things the world you're explaining is fantasy.

Sex is needed for me personally. My D is like a second heart. If something happened to that I might as well die.

CosmicBioHazard · 2022-11-27T18:39:14+00:00

I mean, by that definition of ‘need’ you’d be right; though Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs sets a definition that more or less describes, in tiers, the order in which people will prioritize trying to get things for themselves.

What I don’t like about that hierarchy, though; he puts sex way on the bottom. below safety. Have I met people who act like it’s actually down there? yes. Do I think it’s that low? absolutely not; nobody is concerned about trying to get laid who isn’t fed, clothed and sheltered. I know absolute creeps who start trying to get it as early as tier 3, but I think a normal guy will start to prioritize sex as part of the ‘self actualization’ tier unless it somehow comes on offer before then. I think it’s a need in the sense that men will eventually get to a point where they prioritize trying to get it before pursuing other things on the hierarchy.

SoleMatesC4S · 2022-11-28T22:57:21+00:00

Just because your brain thinks something is a need does not mean it is. Drug addicts have brains that tell them they need those drugs.

Drug addictions are classified into two types; physical and psychological. In the case of physical addictions, then yes; the addict will in fact die without the drug. Withdrawals have killed detoxing addicts.

Furthermore, I would argue that your brain wouldn't think you needed the drug unless on some level you actually needed the drug.

I love how people talk out of both sides of their mouth on this one. They have no problem acknowledging that "incels" are often depressed and psychotic but then say that sex isn't a need they're all just victims of some mass hoax perpetrated by the patriarchy, or something. Lack of sex clearly leads to mental issues, but it's totes not a need, guys!

Title	People who say sex is a need don’t understand what needs are.
Author	LillthOfBabylon
Upvotes	0
Comments	239
Date	November 26, 2022 1:20 PM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/z57ezh/people_who_say_sex_is_a_need_dont_understand_what/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/people-who-say-sex-is-a-need-dont-understand-what.1141806 https://theredarchive.com/post/1141806

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