The real wall is the fertility wall

SeveralLiterature980 · 2023-11-13T07:57:41+00:00

The Wall is mostly revenge porn.

The reality is that most women go their entire lives just meeting and dating men and are never without a ton of options, especially attractive ones and especially especially attractive ones that age well.

tawny-she-wolf · 2023-11-13T14:21:51+00:00

Trick is not to want kids - then there's pressure to settle for some subpar person just to have kids (which is were you should be the pickiest anyway).

spicytuna12391 · 2023-11-13T21:33:13+00:00

If I can't have biological children then I will adopt. I'm 32 and I'm not desperate lol. If I was desperate to have a child I could get knocked up by some bum right now.

I have no idea what you're talking about, chasing simps and "betas". There's a lot to unpack here, but you might not be mentally well.

Chan_KC · 2023-11-13T20:02:04+00:00

The actual wall is the men who can’t get access to all the sex they are desperate for, let alone be able to reproduce. This so called wall for women is a scare/shame tactic for us to rush into choosing who we reproduce with.

It’s a woman’s biological right and god-given power to choose whom she has children with - if at all - and if it takes her until 40 instead of 25 to find that person, so be it.

ComfortableJeans · 2023-11-13T09:30:52+00:00

I've said it a million times now, most men with sleep with anything, to the extent where a woman can't know how attractive she is just because a very attractive man will sleep with her. I don't know if some men truly are just slaves to their biology, but I have a feeling that a lot of men get their self-worth from the flat number of women they can sleep with.

That shit doesn't change just because she's got a few wrinkles.

If men will fuck a legitimate 2/10, who's a bad person, has a bad attitude and a bad personality, they'll fuck an avarage 35 year old in a heartbeat. And most of them would also commit.

I guess their MAYBE some hardship in that a lot of good men would have paired up a long time ago with other women, but I'm not entirely sure about that.
There's also the fact that most women are fine alone, as their social relationships tend to provide what men can only get in romantic relationships.

I get the desire to lash out and see others hurt in the way that you're hurting. I get it, a person can only suffer so long before they become rabbid. If you've been alone all your life, no one has loved you, no one loves you now, no one will love you going forward and your whole like will be an excersize in managing the pain of your lonliness and lack of love, then you die, but this The Wall idea just doesn't exist in reality, no matter how many tiktok compilations you find on YouTube.

harmonica2 · 2023-11-13T18:19:45+00:00

Don't guys have a wall too? I know who when in his 30s, settled for a woman to have kids,but as soon as the last I'd moved out, he divorced her, much to her surprise.

The timing of waiting till the last kid moved out suggests that he settled because he wanted offspring and felt pressured for time. So doesn't that mean he felt he had a wall too?

Hot-Law2682 · 2023-11-13T22:19:18+00:00

If women were biologically motivated to have kids they would feel a stronger urge to have kids when they were more fertile, this is not the case.

The "biological clock" phenomena is really a social clock, women feel like they will miss out on the experience of having kids and this will affect their quality of life and fulfillment. However, as women care less and less about having kids and see them as less important to their lives this effect is diminishing.

Turbulent-Tonight975 · 2023-11-13T07:12:43+00:00

I don't think it is as simple as that.

I think you are talking about the neurochemical signals women often get when hitting their late 20s as biology telling them to get it together and have a baby. I have seen many women who go from that switch in their late 20s to early 30s where they suddenly want a committed relatoinship and want men they could see as future husband material.

You are right that biological drive to reproduce is part of the equation- evolutionary psychology would absolutely argue this, correctly in my opinion. I think it also has to do with many other factors that go along with aging. Many women in their late 20s have seen at least some of their friends get married and have kids. These women have been asked by friends and family when their turn will be. These women also get to an age where more people in their social group are married with kids and it starts to feel like she is on the outside looking in when most of her female friends are married. At that point when many of her friends are married, the single friends will find themselves not as included in activities that are more family and child oriented that come with the lives most people live in thier 30s.

I think it is also the realities of dating changing so much for women starting around 27-33. I don't know a single woman my age (over 30) who has said that dating after 30 is easier or more enjoyable than dating in the late teens to mid 20s. By the late 20s many of the men who are most eager to get married and have kids have left the dating market. Many of the men left are not looking to marriage and kids, or are not looking for them anytime soon as males don't hit a fertility cliff in their 30s (or really ever) unline females. I have seen many of the 30+ women in my social networks who are frustrated with the reduced quality of men that want to date them compared to their mid to late 20s. I have seen them express frustration that men their age (30+) are busy dating women 5-10 years younger and have little interest in women their own age.

In total, I think that it is a combination of biology, changes in dating dynamics, more difficult dating for women in their 30s, few dating options for these women, social changes in their friends and family getting married, social isolation of their friends not being able to spend as much time with them because of married life, and realization that the realities of life as 18-25 year old woman are long behind them and not coming back.

BoopEverySnoot · 2023-11-13T13:14:58+00:00

"The wall" is a revenge fantasy. Women in their 30's are NOT desperate to be impregnated. The fact is that fewer women are choosing pregnancy. It's a choice. I guarantee if women in their 30's were running around like their ass was on fire, screaming "SOMEONE PLEASE IMPREGNATE ME," men would line up. It's a bullshit male-extremist/Andrew Tate fantasy that women are dying to start families these days.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-11-13T16:03:26+00:00

Im LOLing at this. You are the wrong person to discuss this. As someone who has struggled with fertility, I know waaaaaaaaaaaaaay more about this topic than you and fertility does not fall off the cliff for women at 30 or even age 35. There are lots of studies showing this.

I am not lying when I say that 99% of women I know who struggled with their fertility were not 35+ and I go to two fertility clinics regularly. You'd think most of the women are 35+ who go there and most arent.

When I first started trying to conceive at age 28, my large main social circle contained 6 other women also trying too. Me and one other girl, who are the youngest out of us 7, had fertility issues. The other 5 (all ages 35+ too btw :) ) got pregnant quickly. Then my 39yearold friend in this group, childfree by choice, got pregnant accidentally. Also, I am the only one with issues who struggles getting pregnant a 2nd time. EVERY SINGLE woman I know personally struggling like me outside of this group isn't 35 either, many are in their late 20s and have medical conditions where they would have struggled younger too but weren't trying then.

Also I'd like to add when I compare myself physically to my main friend group and other friends, I lead a healthier lifestyle and yet I still have the most fertility issues.

The problem with fertility is you wont find out theres a problem until you try. And most women dont try young now.

DrBoby · 2023-11-13T12:55:21+00:00

It's both and they are linked.

Men are less interested in older women BECAUSE they are less fertile or even sterile. It's not conscious it's biological. That's how natural selection works, men who make no difference reproduce less.

You underestimate the struggle of 60 year old women. Being single at that age is often permanent for women.

bluepvtstorm · 2023-11-13T10:43:56+00:00

Women who are smart create a life where children are an option and not a necessity so they are never desperate either way. I am 45 and pretty awesome and I listened to my grandma when she said leave early and leave often. If we don’t match I don’t waste my time.

At the first sign of a red flag, I am out with no thought or concern about having children. I have always been that way. Children were always just an option if I got married. If I didn’t get married I wasn’t having kids.

I also have eggs preserved so that could also be why I don’t really care but raising children has always sounded horrible to me. They need all the things all the time and you have zero control over their personality and if you aren’t a complete jerk you have to be willing to nurture their interests no matter if you would rather watch paint dry.

So I think if women are desperate it’s because they haven’t figured out how to have a fulfilling life without all the entrapment of society.

DumbWordsmith · 2023-11-13T11:17:40+00:00

not because they can't find a good partner

This is why women especially get desperate and start chasing after simps and betas.

If they can find "good" long-term partners so easily, they wouldn't be getting desperate enough to pursue simps.

A lot of older men aren't as willing to put up with women's BS, nor are they as eager to pursue all women for LTRs.

Of course, women have endless options for short-term partners at any age. However, I remember TRP saying that the average woman's sexual market value (SMV) is significantly higher than her relationship market value (RMV), so an older average woman has to come down to reality in order to snag a stable boyfriend for a long-term relationship.

Edit: In other words, her SMV will always be relatively high, but her RMV will decline significantly with time.

Famous_Obligation959 · 2023-11-13T07:41:18+00:00

I do feel concerned for the women on Bumble when it says they are 36 - 40 and want kids. That must feel like a race against time.

Excellent_Badger123 · 2023-11-13T07:54:17+00:00

I was told by the Dr’s I had to see as a kid that I shouldn’t ever plan on being a mother. I probably adapted my early self to that way of thinking & just adjusted my expectations/life plans accordingly. After being married for a few years to a man who wanted kids, we tried & I was able to conceive & have a child. I was incredibly grateful to have that kind of joy in my life at 31, something I logically thought was impossible that actually happened. I didn’t need to be a Mom but I enjoyed it very much.

basedmama21 · 2023-11-13T18:16:30+00:00

Can we stop saying partner? They’re (ideally) looking for a husband if they want children.

NefariousnessLife220 · 2023-11-13T16:30:43+00:00

I know the narrative on reddit is that most young women are childfree but I don't buy it, most do try for a kid at some point. Reddit is an echo chamber.

Believe whatever you want to believe.

When it comes to actual dating where reproduction is not the goal then even 60 yo women can find a partner if they really want to.

Absolutely. 15-30 minutes on Tinder will do the trick.

Most older women don't date not because they can't but because they're post-menopause and don't give a shit anymore.

Eh, disagree. Life doesn't end at menopause, much as you may want to believe. Google "The Villages" in central Florida. STDs are/were running absolutely rampant in that community. Post menopausal woman are having as much sex as they want to.

macone235 · 2023-11-13T07:09:30+00:00

No, it's a combination of both. The men they want won't commit to them, and women in a last ditch effort settle with a guy to have children, or they continue being single, but even these single women have less options than in their 20s, and their lives will significantly slow down.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2023-11-13T12:47:55+00:00

People constantly underestimate how hard it can be to have kids after a certain age.

If anything its the opposite.

But even so, they still know deep down that they don't have enough time.

They have

This is why women especially get desperate and start chasing after simps and betas.

They don't

I know the narrative on reddit is that most young women are childfree but I don't buy it, most do try for a kid at some point. Reddit is an echo chamber.

1) This isn't a narrative,what people say it's there are more young women who are childfree,not that most are childfree

2)You decide to swap what you think as echo chamber view with your own echo chamber view, lol

oskajoerg · 2023-11-13T07:41:16+00:00

dating as an average looking man is the same experience as dating for a +45 yr old woman

2023-11-14T04:25:39+00:00

If the wall for women does not exist as many here seem to be saying, how come the cosmetics industry is worth BILLIONS of dollars with much of it designed to attempt to turn back the clock?

Yes, there will always be men clamoring for your attention but the quality of them declines with your social market value. You now have to spend $$$ and time to try and get 1/10th of the appeal and looks that college girls just roll out of bed with.. and they are eating your lunch.

This is why the advice given to women to not waste or squander the brief window of time when they are the most attractive to the opposite sex and use it to find your absolute soulmate. Instead, many young women would rather party and just believe the power and options they are used to will always be there... until they are not... and then they settle or they choose to be alone.

AutoModerator · 2023-11-13T06:55:05+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

AutoModerator · 2023-11-13T06:55:05+00:00

Hi OP,

You've chosen to identify your thread as a CMV. As such you are expected to actively engage in your own thread with a mind open to being changed. PPD has guidelines for what that involves.

OPs author must genuinely hold the position and you must be open to having your view challenged.

An unwillingness to have your view challenged may be inferred from one or several of the following:

Asking few or no genuine questions;

Seeming more interested in arguing or convincing others than understanding opposing views;

Ignoring the main point of a comment, especially to point out some minor inconsistency;

Refusing to make concessions that an alternate view has merit;

Focusing only on the weaker arguments;

Explicit statements of an intent to change the other posters’ minds; or

Only having discussions with users who agree with your position.

Failure to keep to this higher standard (we only apply to CMV OPs) may result in deletion of the whole thread.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

CroomagnumTX · 2023-11-13T17:33:14+00:00

He tried to cheat but was too stupid....don't stay with this loser

2023-11-13T22:00:10+00:00

The wall is behavioral and it’s only a minority of women affected. It’s when women live life by burning their candle on two ends. They associate romance with fun then when they reach the age where men themselves don’t even want to have fun and they are too old to act that way then they hit “the wall.”

A gay man wrote this song: https://youtu.be/EKSU1W0ZUmQ?si=uqbbqq70D3Gf9R2T

But yes men who want kids will rarely consider women under 37

I think it’s like 8/10 dudes want to be a father and slightly less women want to be mothers but almost the same.

LongjumpingAd6169 · 2023-11-14T03:51:38+00:00

I am a women in my early 50s. My kids are grown and after a divorce a while back, I did a few months of online dating. It was actually fairly easy to get dates with great guys around my age. And after about 4 months I found my guy. Of course, there is a fertility wall but if you’re not dating to have kids, its not an issue fir women. The dating market is so much easier for women! If you’re above average in your age group and you have a pleasant personality and make the live of your man better, there is no dating wall. Most man also don’t look for much younger women as it’s unrealistic to find unless they have an extremely high smv. Average guys don’t even get good dates their age! So I agree, the wall for women is only fertility related.

Sunshineinjune · 2023-11-14T06:25:47+00:00

Lmfao wow you put a lot thought into this completely skewed way of seeing women.

Title	The real wall is the fertility wall
Author	Novel-Tip-7570
Upvotes	42
Comments	224
Date	November 13, 2023 6:55 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/17u50za/the_real_wall_is_the_fertility_wall/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-real-wall-is-the-fertility-wall.1238298 https://theredarchive.com/post/1238298

Comments