The ‘Friends First’ approach to dating is a huge waste of time

castironskilletset · 2024-07-20T10:06:59+00:00

Friend first approach can work.

But what happen is that men become friends and dont generate strong emotions and attraction. Then when they confess their feelings, women be like "I thought you were my woman bestie who happen to have a dick".

januaryphilosopher · 2024-07-20T11:19:55+00:00

It doesn't work if you're using it as an "approach". All the times I've known it to work, the two people were actually friends and only started to feel something more later. It can't be planned, if you know you're into someone from the start then just let them know and don't pretend you want to be friends.

2024-07-20T09:40:01+00:00

If you're going to fall head over heels for someone you have known for 5 minutes in total, yeah, it's a terrible approach.

If you have tons of friends and don't care about dating too much, it's probably the best approach.

FirmQuarter6623 · 2024-07-20T11:18:23+00:00

The "Friends first" method may work if you don't have any feelings, and see her as friend. You just spend time together and it just happens. Cannot be used as strategy.

lost_aussie001 · 2024-07-20T13:13:52+00:00

One of the hardest lessons I learnt both myself & through observation:

It is more common for Guys to develop feelings for a friend over time & as their friendship becomes closer
Girl's attraction is more 'love at first sight', if she isn't attracted to a guy when they first meet it's highly unlikely they will change their heart about the guy

Silver_Switch_3109 · 2024-07-20T12:23:51+00:00

The ‘friends first’ approach isn’t a waste of time as it is not a tactic. People misunderstand what it actually means. You don’t approach women you find attractive and pretend to be their friend in the hopes it will develop into a relationship, as you were never their actual friend. The ‘friends first’ approach is where you are friends with a woman and over time both of you begin to develop feelings for each other. This cannot be a waste of time.

Avatar2024Fan · 2024-07-20T09:45:52+00:00

You need a stoic approach. If she's not into you it should not bother you
Sure but everything is a numbers game. There are a few benefits of doing the friend approach. First of all it removes all the pressure for the guy. It social proofs you, cold approaching is just like online dating. It works for the attractive guy. And lastly it increases your numbers.

reignoferror00 · 2024-07-20T15:42:44+00:00

Friends of friends or acquaintances are possibilities. If you get to where you are considered a friend of hers, you're fucked - actually, you're not fucked. You usually have to approach and make your interest known very early.

The advice is mostly useless since if you already have a large circle of friends (with a larger potential for meeting friends of friends or new acquaintances), odds are good your dating problems are comparatively minimal.

If you have a guy friend, close acquaintance or even long time co-worker or sports teammates who you get along with well, and is very social and extroverted with lost of friends and "friends" you're better off doing activities with him where you might be introduced to women he knows.

Couldn't agree more with your point #3. He is often was a stranger with a "talking stage" and/or a distant acquaintance of some sort (who you started more of a "talking stage" with). I'm not sure if it is more a fundamental difference of what women consider friends or it is a deluded looking back on things without real awareness.

MongoBobalossus · 2024-07-20T11:56:24+00:00

It can work (my current relationship for example), but you need to have a strong social circle to do so. You rarely if ever see someone cold approach their way into a “friends then lovers” scenario.

TermAggravating8043 · 2024-07-20T09:44:40+00:00

I personally don’t know or have ever heard of a couple ‘that were friends first’ Hoping a friendship will turn into a relationship is naive at best, and manipulate at worst. Most of the time it’s the girl not mean enough to tell the guy to leave her alone, and the guy hoping to catch her vulnerable one day.

It’s part of your social skills and something we all learn growing up to know the differences between friendships and romantic relationships, boys just struggle because they mature slower than girls.

Ok_Complaint_8560 · 2024-07-20T13:53:47+00:00

It doesnt work as an "approach" because you both arent expecting feelings to escalate into a relationship when you enter a genuine friendship. Its a just happens kind of thing.

It fails as an approach because youre inogranically trying to create something from a completely different thing IMO.

KentuckyCriedFlickin · 2024-07-20T12:43:17+00:00

First off?

Women just don’t see ‘friendship’ the same way men do. Often to them it means ‘how much attention/money/resources can I gather from a man without having to do girlfriend things?’ So they’ll bread crumb a guy, to make him feel good and keep coming back. AND call that ‘friendship’.

Second:

Women compartmentalize. Simple as that. Immutably. So if a guy presents himself as a ‘bestie’, AND the woman sees him like that? She’s going to make a big show of feeling all betrayed when he tries to kiss her. That’s never healthy.

Unique_Mind2033 · 2024-07-20T14:31:32+00:00

. Much of dating or relationships is business. Just as one can run a clean business just as you can run a clean relationship. about interest and returns and investing and good leadership, it's not a bad thing just because money in the material realm is dirty.

Friendship in my view is very pure, it's not about leverage or expectations it's about sacrifice and doing the right thing. It's very universal. It should never be a strategy for anything

NotARussianBot1984 · 2024-07-20T16:15:56+00:00

I disagree. It's worth while to be friends with women. Actually the most I ever learned was from my female friends, many who were dating my male friends. I got to see exactly how women act around men they are interested in. THat info is valuable to a man.

Plus they are nice to talk to.

If you end up not dating them (I never did) you still have a friend. Just have a back bone and don't be walked over.

Junior_Ad_3086 · 2024-07-20T16:30:40+00:00

it's not really an approach in that sense or at least it's not supposed to be (imo). it's something that happens organically as you meet women through school, work, hobbies, social circles and so on. you get to know people outside of a dating context, in various different social situations and can see their authentic selves more easily as they interact with other people, talk about things they care about etc. rather than everyone being on their best behavior trying to sell each other on the idea of being in a relationship with one another.

the guy who's looking for female besties in hopes of eventually becoming more? yeah that shit doesn't work and it's the definition of having ulterior motives. being her texting buddy, stalking her socials, showering her with attention and compliments, catering to her every whim and essentially pedestalizing her - that's the stuff a lot of the guys who are stuck in the friendzone do. and instead of moving on to pursue other women they stay there in hopes of changing her mind. and although that's an extreme example, even less ridiculous variations of that are completely different to the first scenario.

there's a big gap between approaching and dating complete strangers and hoping to start a relationship with your best friend you've known for years. i think most people are thinking about something in between, essentially getting to know someone a little bit on a more platonic level instead of jumping straight into dating based on limited and very superficial factors. a lot of the healthier relationships i know or been part of started this way. in some cases the people involved knew each other for a couple of weeks and were more like friendly acquaintances, in some cases it was a few months and sometimes even years (although they usually weren't very close for most of that duration).

can you fall for someone and it not being reciprocated? sure, it happens. even to women who are attractive and fall for their friend, believe it or not. a lot of guys are also not really straight up about their feelings in fears of rejection and making things awkward which drags things on for an unnecessary amount of time. either way there is no guaranteed way of forming a healthy, loving and successful relationship. but at least you know each other to some degree and can judge compatibilities easier if you don't date randoms off dating apps in hopes for anything but casual sex. there's accountability on both sides and people treat each other with more respect and less like a commodity. women especially are attracted to certain traits and characteristics that don't really shine through on a dating app or by having a quick chat at a club or bar. and men can also get a better idea about whether or not a woman is actually long-term material in their eyes.

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2024-07-20T18:38:38+00:00

Escaping the friend box in someones mind is a delicate skill but some people know how to do it, if you are accused of having ulterior motives you're clearly doing it wrong

Ppdebatesomental · 2024-07-20T23:30:29+00:00

You are getting it all wrong. If you are super attracted to a particular woman and try to befriend her instead of asking her out, you have a high possibility of wasting your time, developing oneitis and maybe even looking like some insincere creeper, especially if you get butt hurt at some point about it not turning sexual.

But if you avoid oneitis, make casual friends with lots of women, feelings often develop with one of them. Learn to flirt, see who starts to flirt back.

SliceDifferent2509 · 2024-07-21T06:35:45+00:00

This whole conversation gets killed by people casually having different definitions of what a "friend" is. It looks like most guys define a friend as someone they frequently want to spend time with doing whatever, and there's a high amount of trust and comradery involved. Time spent together can be either one on one or in a group.

But there's another defacto definition I see of a "friend" just being anyone you know that you are on friendly terms with. I would call these people acquaintances, but a lot of people won't do that because it makes you feel like an asshole.

I met my gf in a meetup group. Prior to me asking her out, we hadn't hung out one on one and we didn't really talk one on one that much at all either, all of my interactions with her were in group settings. So IMO we went from being friendly with each other to dating, but if you asked her she would say we are an example of friends to dating.

DamagedByPessimism · 2024-07-21T09:10:23+00:00

Yeah, no. No such thing as friendship between genders.

At least in my case, I either despised men or I wanted something more than friendship.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-07-20T11:47:31+00:00

68 percent of LTRs start out as friends first

https://www.theladders.com/career-advice/turns-out-68-of-romantic-relationships-start-out-this-way#:~:text=Two%2Dthirds%20of%20romantic%20relationships,according%20to%20a%20new%20study.&text=People%20said%20they%20prefer%20to,or%20meeting%20at%20a%20bar.&text=Studies%20rarely%20explore%20love%20via%20friendship.

Barneysparky · 2024-07-20T10:24:30+00:00

The ‘Friends First’ approach to dating is a huge waste of time... if you're not Chad. When Chad does it:

"Oh my God, this is so romantic, I've been waiting for you to ask me for so long!"

"X doesn't work" is always just a roundabout way of saying, "I'm not Chad btw".

SaBahRub · 2024-07-20T11:47:18+00:00

Well, then, enjoy cold approaching and OLD

Apocalypstik · 2024-07-21T03:26:19+00:00

I met him through mutual friends and I was in a relationship. He was a platonic friend who I enjoyed having random discussions with. When my 6 year relationship ended- I was single for awhile and then started casually dating.

I went on (what I thought were) platonic dates with him- and had more fun with him than any of the casual dates I had gone on. And then I was dumb enough to be surprised that he asked me to date (I'm actually autistic).

Anyway, we are married- the vibe is great, sex is fire, and he's still my friend 'first.'

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-07-20T13:02:29+00:00

tells you just how one-sided interest is and how most women seem to pass the minimum looks threshold, but not the guys.

The number of successfully happy marriages & LTR where they were friends first tells you otherwise. They’re just not complaining about their love life’s online, for obvious reasons.

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nemma88 · 2024-07-20T14:42:42+00:00

Friends first shouldn't be an approach to dating at all.

Couples meet this way as a part of normal socialisation, not as a strategy or with the intent. Friends go out with other friends and other groups come a long and there's a lot of exposure in a more relaxed environment. A lot of the work is done here in the background, a woman will know if there's a spark or not after a while rather than agreeing to go for coffee a few times with a stranger and deciding there isn't. Really it cuts out a lot of the initial dating process with no investment from either party. A coffee date from a friend's group woman is worth more than a random, because you're not starting from zero.

So if you're (in general, not directed at OP) struggling to find anyone you making an effort to increase your social life and friend groups will at worst be another self improvement exercise.

If you're struggling to find anyone and just want to complain about time investment in making friends, well then you only really have yourself to blame.

Can this work if you're just looking to get laid? To an extent, but less so. It's not a shortcut, you still need all the charisma and it won't magically make STR averse women up for it.

Difficult_Falcon1022 · 2024-07-20T21:38:10+00:00

In my experience it's been more acquaintance, friend of a friend, pub mates, in a shared hobby group etc rather than best friends.

RIchardjCranium · 2024-07-20T22:09:34+00:00

There’s a saying “you can’t negotiate desire.” Yes there’s some people that were friends that because a couple. But it’s the exception to the rule. Ask the millions of guys in the friendzone.

PopularBug5 · 2024-07-20T22:18:01+00:00

Catch-22. Women only are keen on being friends with a guy they are already interested in. Otherwise, he's just an acquaintance.

2024-07-20T22:26:14+00:00

It doesn’t work unless it happens naturally…but to be honest, men never see women who they’re sexually attracted to as just friends, so once that factor’s in…”being friends” is a moot point; sex ruins everything

SadCahita · 2024-07-21T02:06:29+00:00

Friends first approach presupposes rule 1 and 2 (alternatively the girl being promiscuous enough)

Quiet_Firefighter_65 · 2024-07-21T04:59:10+00:00

It's not just a waste of time, it's downright pathetic. You were just hovering around hoping that she falls for you whilst she's dating these other dudes? C'mon man.

ChicoBrillo · 2024-07-21T06:25:50+00:00

If you befriend someone because you want something from them, you're not really friends with them...

Friends first has worked for me plenty of times, but it's not like it was some long con strategy I was consciously implementing. It was more like, we were legitimately friends or friendly acquaintances, then later in life, dynamics changed, life shifted things around, and things just lined up.

Affectionate_Cat1512 · 2024-07-21T09:32:40+00:00

Friends first never worked with me, because once we enter friendship, all romantic potential is out of the picture

DubiousTarantino · 2024-07-21T14:07:15+00:00

A lot of women are unaware of the fact that any of the supposed guy friends would want to sleep with them, last time I checked if we were friends I wouldn’t want any intimate contact with them. However, since most men are touch starved and lack deep emotional connections, they latch onto the girl that gives them that validation and security. Though she sees him only as a friend, the guy will most likely not only have friendship feelings. By girls wanting the friends first approach, it’s mostly the guy just waiting to fuck and already has those feelings, but women may need more time to develop it.

HappyCat79 · 2024-07-21T14:31:06+00:00

I literally require my partner to also be my friend because if you wouldn’t be friends then the relationship won’t be good at all. My ex and I had nothing in common and wouldn’t be friends. Of course, he has no friends, so there is that… he sees no value in friendships, especially with women. If he can’t get sex then women are useless to him.

My boyfriend and I have a lot in common and started as friends with benefits. We fell in love because we share so much in common and get along so well.

referendum · 2024-07-21T15:12:53+00:00

Friends first doesn't work if you are hiding your romantic desire. Women tend to want genuine connection. If you genuinely just wanted to be friends, then it could develop from there.

Hook up culture has people trained to obsess on sexual attraction first. From a man's perspective, sexual attraction will develop for us ~3-10 times easier than for women on average.

-BubbaZanetti- · 2024-07-22T00:51:10+00:00

In the real world, circumstances and people constantly change. So two people who have been friends for however long, may gradually or suddenly become romantically involved. The same way couples fall out of love gradually or suddenly. It’s disingenuous to seek friendship with anyone when your real intent is to root them.

2024-07-22T05:51:57+00:00

There's no one way to go about it, but I think it's important to communicate honestly what one's intent is.

2024-07-22T10:36:30+00:00

You do have a social circle with women?

BananaB0yy · 2024-07-22T17:38:39+00:00

men just do it wrong, its super effective

Individual_Speech_10 · 2024-08-04T21:31:13+00:00

which makes the friends first attempt just much of a "luck" or "numbers" game like approaching women you know nothing about and asking them to grab a coffee

Um, yes? Who told you otherwise? All dating is luck and gamble. That is life. The reason this advice is given is because it is more likely to lead to a happy, successful relationship, not because it's guaranteed to net you one. How are so many people missing these incredibly obvious things?

ChromeBadge · 2024-07-20T09:38:15+00:00

I've said for decades that men and women can't be friends.

It's simply the fact that 99% of the time it's not friendship. It's one party wanting something from the other and "friendship" is just a grift to get what they want.

IronDBZ · 2024-07-20T12:05:14+00:00

I think male female friendships can work, so long as the more interested party has more reason to be involved than sex or potential romance.

I've got a number of female friends and I absolutely have strong feelings for at least one of them and I've entertained the idea of what being with the others would be like. I don't like the puritanical way most women engage with the idea, love and desire are not insults or an attack. But it's still true that it's usually one sided.

Men are allowed to have feelings and should be given a space to express them without it blowing up their social lives. That said, having people in your life that enrich it outside of romance helps navigate those feelings because, at least for me, I have a reflex in relationships to ask "what am I getting out of this". And the resentment comes in when the answer to that question is some kind of deficit, "I'm losing money, I'm not enjoying myself, I feel less confident, I feel ugly, I feel ignored." So, you have to find people that make you feel like the time and effort you put into them is worth it, that there is a mutual exchange that won't make you feel cheated or your energy is wasted.

Whether it's platonic or romantic, there's always going to be somewhat of an inequal exchange between people. You're never going to be the same amount of invested, want the same things from one another, and that's okay, but you have to feel satisfied more often than not.

One of my friends, she cooks for me sometimes, we spend hours together one-on-one, there's nothing overtly sexual happening but we are laughing and eating and enjoying each other's company. I can go home when I leave her place with a smile on my face, because I have something I can look forward to with her that's mutual and enjoyable and dependable.

And I think the missing piece with a lot of guys is that they set their condition for satisfaction at all the things a woman is unwilling to give or share in a friendship, so they come away feeling unwanted and unloved and undesired.

Some women have a very boyfriend-lite idea of what a male friend is supposed to be, so they guys in their lives get a lot of baggage and obligations without any "mutuality", that's the best way I can put it. "I have to be all these things to you, but you refuse to be any of these things to me".

There's a lot of men who are confidants to people who don't know their middle name. Lot of men who are called "friend" by women who treat them like a bad date they refuse to break things off with.

I think the reason a lot of people think male-female friendships don't work is because a lot of people that claim to be in them aren't actually friends, just people that don't understand how to engage with the opposite sex from a place of comradery. They either use people or allow themselves to be used.

mrcs84usn · 2024-07-20T12:15:09+00:00

Friends first = I, the woman, want to control the pace of the relationship. I want you to validate me, but I don’t have to touch your pee pee.

Aka: “I wanna take things slow,” but with more plausible deniability.

The other problem with it is that they’re never going to be “just friends”…first. It’s this weird dance where he pretends that he’s not -too- interested while she figure if he’s date worthy. Whenever I’ve gone down that road, I was never really treated like just a friend. And any time there was an attempt to escalate things weeks/months down the road they hold up this “friend first” flag. Of course there’s minimal effort put into actually nurturing the “friendship.”

This is different from actually being “just friends” where there wasn’t a romantic tension from the start.

TallFoundation7635 · 2024-07-20T14:07:31+00:00

It is dumb as hell to be friends with women especially women that won't be your wingwoman. What is the point of it when you can be friends with a tribe of like minded men.

EugeneCezanne · 2024-07-20T21:05:38+00:00

This perspective is backwards. Being friends isn't an approach to dating. Dating is, occasionally, a consequence of being friends.

So just make friends. Have fun and watch each others' backs and enrich your lives. If dating ever happens from it, it's just bonus content.

Mathematician1627 · 2024-07-21T13:13:26+00:00

Let's be clear: the "friends first" approach is often adopted by women in their mid-30s who have enjoyed their youth but lack a significant career. They are now seeking stability. The men interested in them are typically above average but not the top tier anymore. These women might consider settling down with a long-time friend who has shown interest and, therefore, is easily influenced, but still above average.

This friend is usually hardworking, ensuring that even if the relationship doesn't work out, she can leave with financial benefits, making it a win-win situation for her regardless of the outcome.

Think of it this way, the "friends first" approach doesn't work with average or more attractive women in their 20s. It first happens after their high-value runs out.

However, it's important to note that this is an average observation, and there might be rare exceptions.

ColbyXXXX · 2024-07-20T21:44:02+00:00

I have been friends and dated more than 3 women. My strategy was basically I talked to them about sex when I could and hit on them but in a very non-committal way. They knew I was attracted to them early on but I never made a move until I was certain it would work in my favor.

A number of times they made soft inquiries to try to temperature check and I would basically talk about other women I am attracted to and why. When I was sure they liked me enough then I actually went full into trying to woo them.

Never really failed. Sometimes we didn’t date but sex happened and thats good enough for me. Not everyone is compatible enough to date.

Title	The ‘Friends First’ approach to dating is a huge waste of time
Author	Babyface_Bogart
Upvotes	118
Comments	155
Date	July 20, 2024 9:25 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1e7rpsa/the_friends_first_approach_to_dating_is_a_huge/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-friends-first-approach-to-dating-is-a-huge.1524793 https://theredarchive.com/post/1524793

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