Feminists can't be "allies" to men's activists, because the feminist movement, broadly, is actively hostile to men

IH8YTSGTS · 2024-07-25T19:28:11+00:00

My big gripe with feminism in this regard. I feel like feminist are inconsistent.

They say that men's rights movements are irrelevant because feminism fights for men's issues but then they say it's mot feminisms' job to help men and that men need to solve their own problems so which is it.

Enzi42 · 2024-07-25T20:54:36+00:00

I definitely agree with this take. The issue with feminism isn't so much "feminists hate men". A pretty large number of them do and their misandrist rhetoric is largely unpunished or even cheered by society. But that is only part of the problem with feminism, since there certainly are feminists who don't overtly hate men.

The issue with feminism is that, under its view of the world and society, men are always "the transgressors". We are the ones who made the bad system, we are the cause of women's problems, we harm the world, and so on and so forth.

A lot of times this translates into some pretty hateful things said about men and even boys. But other times it takes on a deceptively softer form of bigotry.

Of course many believe men are a maliciously oppressive force who have purposely made women's lives hell and crave power. But there are others who see us as misguided brutes, not evil at all, just stupid and destructive and in need of reeducation for our own sake and of course for women's as well.

Then there are those who see us as just inherently morally inferior and destructive but not malicious, just dangerous animals to be avoided whenever possible.

There are hundreds of variations on this core belief of men=perpetrator of wrong, so many that I could list them for hours and still not be done.

But the end result is the same, an overall negative viewpoint of male humans that poisons every interaction a feminist has with one of us, down to their own family members.

Sometimes it is hate, other times it is condescending pity and belief that we need "saving", other times it manifests as a demand that we devote ourselves to their causes as penance. And again I could go on.

But the point is that no one who believes in a male oppressor/female oppressed dynamic will ever be able to have a truly positive relationship with men or boys.

PiastriPs3 · 2024-07-25T07:33:10+00:00

I can get with radical and marxist feminists since they seem to have e a consistent ideology that calls for the emancipation of both genders from the constrictures of gender roles and gendered expectations and don't understate women's role of upholding the patriarchy and male gender roles. But lib feminists or corporate feminism ideology seems to be all about women having their cake and eating it too. Gender role lib for me but not for thee. Etc etc. I am indifferent or even hostile to lib feminists, since their ideology in the real world has only enabled one gender to expand the spectrum of gender roles and expectations whilst enabling female hypocrites to switch and bait when convenient, when they need a good trad male mule to be the breadwinner when they're done playing empowered women in their 20s and early 30s. Lib feminists don't want to destroy the patriarchy or end gender roles, they just want a better deal.

Dense-Tell-6147 · 2024-07-25T04:34:35+00:00

Like every movement there are people who abuse the term. I have no problem with “true” feminists whose goal is equality.

I am convinced that a society without category-based (be that gender, religion, national origin, etc.) privileges would function for everyone.

My problem is with those self-styled feminists who are just misandrist in disguise, like the asshole that told my kid that boys are stupid making he come home saying he wish he was a girl.

Unfortunately the number of “male tears” drinking cretins is so big that those who don’t know better conflate them with the decent ones

Cethlinnstooth · 2024-07-25T03:52:18+00:00

Politics makes some strange alliances at times. And it's not like there's only one type of feminist and only one type of MRA.

IcyTrapezium · 2024-07-25T22:52:40+00:00

As a feminist I would love for men’s rights activists to work on all these things. Especially DV shelters for men. Please open those up! We support you!

Professional_Chair28 · 2024-07-25T03:22:55+00:00

Hostility towards the feminist movement by MRA’s is completely justified.

You see no irony in that statement, huh?

EulenWatcher · 2024-07-25T04:40:43+00:00

Hostility towards the feminist movement by MRAs is understandable, but it isn't productive. MRA movement desperately needs a better image for itself, and it's really hard to do when a lot of its rhetoric is directed against feminism with some of it being on the extreme side and being viewed as a threat to women's rights and safety.

I'd like to see more peaceful and mindful discussions between MRAs and feminists, which are needed to find some common ground. One of the ways to do is to pay more attention to how men and women's problems are closely connected. I.e. higher addiction, alcoholism and crime rates among men do mean that more men are potentially dangerous to others and that failing boys we eventually fail both genders. Men working longer hours means that they contribute less to housework and childcare (and the other way around too). Female abusers, rapists and molesters not facing consequences of their actions multiply future male abusers, rapists and molesters.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think that men don't deserve to get help unless it also helps women. Not at all. Men are valuable and they deserve help. But showing how our problems are all connected and one leads to another does help people to see "the other side" with less hostility and it makes it easier to seek more holistic solutions to problems.

-Gravebloom- · 2024-07-25T11:12:07+00:00

Seriously, just take a look at these radfem/pink pill spaces. They spew the same vitriol that the incels have, yet because they are team women it's a-ok! Fucking clown world lmao

fakingandnotmakingit · 2024-07-25T05:13:10+00:00

In which case you can then assume that hostility against men's rights activists are also completely justified as we should be judging them on their most vocal

2024-07-25T06:57:15+00:00

Feels like this shouldn't even need to be said because it's so obvious, but here we are.

You are absolutely right, this shouldn't be said and it isn't needed to be said. Why do you think you need to say it? Feminism and MRA are at opposing ends of an ideological spectrum. They share many similarities in characteristics (victimhood narratives, echo chambers, identity politics, hostility towards moderation, oppositional stance) but are fundamentally opposed in the contents of those characteristics.

attendquoi · 2024-07-25T12:40:39+00:00

You don't need to be a feminist to stereotype men as dangerous. My grandma was decidedly not a feminist and she was one of the biggest proponents of teaching all women to be suspicious of all men.

SaBahRub · 2024-07-25T15:22:46+00:00

They can on some issues like male rape, circumcision, family law

And not all feminists agree with your points

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McPigg · 2024-07-25T19:14:53+00:00

I hate both modern feninists and MRAs, a bunch of toxic crybabys in my opinion. The whole gender war think is disgusting.

CarHungry · 2024-07-26T02:31:39+00:00

It depends on the type of feminism, radfem? Probably not, there are forms that genuinely do want equality, albeit just with women "going first". Whether that is the majority or even a significant portion at all of them at all is up for debate. Men simply have no other allies in the mainstream, conservatives mostly only do lip service with nothing to show for it, or they do "tough love" shit like forcing men to die in war to bring back "strong men" or some nonsense.

Feminism in some spaces can tend to seem like a typical supremacist movement, but you can't kill off men, that's a pretty significant fact for a supremacist movement, the reality is they'll have to learn to live with us sooner or later. And also if you look at the statistics men are doing better than a century ago comparatively, it's just that class struggle has gotten worse and women still enjoy some "patriarchal" privilege holdovers so it feels worse.

After_Tip_6313 · 2024-07-29T07:09:31+00:00

The thing is, two women who both call themselves feminists can hold very different views.

If you're talking the Reddit/Twitter variant of feminism then ignore all I'm going to write below. I agree with you lol.

You have the female-incel like rhetoric you depicted above, then you have people who genuinely just want to close the wage gap (or some similar, very real and unfortunately still existing, issue) and go on with their day. You really can't lump them both together.

InseparableUnion · 2024-07-25T21:56:29+00:00

Why can’t they just be honest and call it the female supremacist movement?

-Kalos · 2024-07-25T06:31:51+00:00

Y’all really view everything as a zero sum game

Economy-Shake-1448 · 2024-07-25T13:51:10+00:00

Promoting highly gendered views on domestic violence and sexual assault that downplay male victimization and female perpetration

Whenever I post about CSA among men here, MEN are the ones to come out and say that they aren’t victims and that they enjoyed their experience.

Two guys once posted on the same thread that they lost their virginities at age like 14 and 17 to middle aged prostitutes. When I said that they were victims, they even got angry with me and insisted that they not only were victims, but that their experiences were awesome and good things.

Recently I posted about this in a comment and another guy chimed in and said that he was given inappropriate attention from a teacher in school. When I said that is wrong, his only response was “but I liked it” and that was it. Another guy also joined in the comments to say that I was wrong and that “I have a stupid definition of consent”.

A woman supported my comment. Not one man did, though. the only two men to respond to me were the guys described above.

Years ago, this video with a woman walking down the street in NYC and getting heavily catcalled went viral. She’s conventionally attractive and slim but wearing a simple t shirt and jeans. Multiple men said how they wish this was them, how they dream of being this woman, and how they would love to have this experience.

Men who claim to be concerned about sexual abuse and assault amongst men shouldn’t be running around justifying grown older women (like more than 5 years older) with minors or talk about how they dream of being catcalled.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2024-07-25T12:25:13+00:00

Affirmative action programs in education and employment that favor women at our expense

That's not how affirmative action works. In fact affirmative action if continued will help men getting in higher education more

Promoting highly gendered views on domestic violence and sexual assault that downplay male victimization and female perpetration

Most litterallly do the opposite. Although true that terfs and other dumb right wingers do that.

Points 3,4,6 same as above

Downplaying/ignoring men's greater financial contributions to households when lamenting about the gendered nature of housework/childcare

How about y'all get grip and go 50/50

Hostility towards the feminist movement by MRA's is completely justified

Actual irl MRAs who try to fix issue that men are more impacted from don't, online weirdos on MRA sub who cry that Women ain't housewives anymore and that destroys the western civilization do.

Economy-Shake-1448 · 2024-07-25T13:55:41+00:00

Also with regards to domestic violence shelters;

If you have ever called them, they all have weeks long waiting lists. And they absolutely let boys in. Some shelters don’t let kids above a certain age (like 12) in, but this is for all genders, not just for boys.

And housework is not divided on income, but on hours worked. If you both work 40 hours a week, it doesn’t matter who makes more money. You divide the housework as equally as you can (and of course there are individual situations, but this is in general).

attendquoi · 2024-07-25T14:32:18+00:00

Speaking as a feminist, I don't know where you got the idea that we're trying to be nice to MRAs 🤣

aromaticcs · 2024-07-25T03:58:41+00:00

Based feminists. Why should we align with our enemies let alone care about yall lmao? do you hear yourself

bifewova234 · 2024-07-25T03:37:36+00:00

They're pretty much the same thing but different genders.

alwaysright12 · 2024-07-25T10:31:19+00:00

Feels like this shouldn't even need to be said because it's so obvious

The idea that men are pissed off at losing their privileges?

Yeah I'd say that is pretty obvious

guppyhunter7777 · 2024-07-25T03:54:16+00:00

Said it once I said 100 times. Modern feminist do not want equality. They want domination, and revenge for sins that they never suffered.

BananaB0yy · 2024-07-25T06:29:18+00:00

they are equally brainwashed by "total equality" thinking, so in theory they should go well together. in practice, this shows the hyppocrisy of both movements.

Ikem32 · 2024-07-25T11:45:45+00:00

First wave feminism was okay, but it should have stopped there.

NoDanaOnlyZuuI · 2024-07-25T11:03:10+00:00

Allyship means active support for the rights of a minority or marginalized group without being a member of it.

Men are neither a minority, nor a marginalized group.

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-07-25T13:15:18+00:00

MRAs aren’t a movement: it’s a bunch of Onlyfans subscribers raging because they are stuck using Onlyfans.

And if you have any one of them the opportunity to screw over everyone else in MR to get laid- he would.

SlavePrincessVibes3 · 2024-07-25T13:37:25+00:00

Lololol.

Affirmative action is not hostile to men. It's honestly hilarious to me how quick men are to label attempts at equality as hostile oppression. It is scientifically proven that the majority of the time, companies will accept resumes from a "man" and reject the EXACT SAME RESUME if it comes from a "woman." We aren't hostile towards men--we are simply evening the scales. Again, it's funny how equality feels like oppression to those at the top of an unequal hierarchy.
The reason most discussions regarding SA, DV, and other violence, is bc it is proven, again thru objective statistics and peer reviewed scientific studies, that men are the perpetrators of the VAST majority of violent crimes, especially in the realm of SA & DV. Nobody is demeaning or diminishing men's issues. You're the one trying to make it a competition when the simple reality is that men are the ones committing these acts 80-90% of the time. The facts don't take your feelings into account.
Domestic violence shelters are sometimes women only bc of what I JUST discussed. Should there be shelters for men? Absolutely. But the fact that there are far more women only shelters is not hostility towards men--it is a logical and rational response to the reality in which we live.
There are articles discussing the issues with men's prisons, too, hun. You can't just cherry-pick an article speaking solely about women's issues and then try to claim that'd discrimination. Men have their OWN issues, which are addressed separately, as the issues faced by women in prison are not the same as the issues men face. Simply bc something doesn't cater to you, doesn't make it hostile or discriminatory... it's simply not for you. So go find the articles that are.
That's not by choice, lmao. Society has forever pidgeon holed women into the caretakers of the children and the home. Thru no fault of their own, women are often passed over for jobs, promotions, and other career advancements. Women are vilified if they prioritize their career, and men are not. In our current economy, childcare costs often force one pstent to stay at home... and the patriarchy makes it clear it should be the woman. FURTHER, studies have proven that 45% of women today make as much or more than their spouses. Was this claim even backed up by valid, legitimate evidentiary support? Or is this just a belief you've gathered from Reddit rants and YT PUAs? I didn't even go into the fact that SAHM or homemakers provide an incredible amount of unpaid labor--maid service, chef, chauffer, secretary, nanny/childcare. And for them, the work day never ends.
Nobody is "stereotyping men." That would be like claiming that people 'stereotype guns' by assuming they're loaded, always. Bc better safe than sorry. Y'all keep getting your boxers in a twist for no reason unless you ARE dangerous. We have to keep ourselves safe, and science has proven that men are almost always the perpetrators of violence. So, until we know you're a "safe" dude, we have to protect ourselves by being safe rather than sorry.

You realize that we don't just pull shit outta our ass, right? We operate off of statistics, science, and reality.

Is every man abusive or toxic or shitty? No, ofc not. But are a significant chunk-a much more significant chunk than that of women (and I'm taking into account the claim that men don't report abuse by women [you do realize that most women don't either, right?] or that they're not taken seriously [again, do you realize that most cases involving women victims get dismissed too?])-are in fact dangerous. But we don't know which ones until they've been proven safe.

I'm sorry, but I'm not going to gamble on my well-being and my life to soothe the egos of defensive men who can't understand that we are simply trying to survive, and if you're not a shitty abuser, then you have nothing to be upset about.

Title	Feminists can't be "allies" to men's activists, because the feminist movement, broadly, is actively hostile to men
Author	obese_tank
Upvotes	88
Comments	283
Date	July 25, 2024 3:18 AM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1ebkquv/feminists_cant_be_allies_to_mens_activists/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/feminists-cant-be-allies-to-mens-activists-because.1525252 https://theredarchive.com/post/1525252

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