Feminism killed chivalry

renob151 · 2013-07-02T15:41:29+00:00

I still try to be chivalrous, not just to ladies, but to everyone (so it's not so much chivalrous but just being nice to people).

This afternoon I stopped by a quick mart on the way home. A man was coming out, as I was going in and he was carrying 2 cases of beer, and trying to balance 4 or 5 bags of chips on top of them. I grabbed the door and held it open, and said "that looks like a good party right there!". He smile back and said, "yeah, hey I appreciate it!".

Same store about a week ago; I stopped to get coffee on the way to work. As I was walking in, there was two young ladies, two or three paces behind me. I'm 44 and they were in their mid 20's. I knew they were close behind me, so when I opened the door I held it for them, smiled and said "Good morning". I was met with two stone cold glares, as the only acknowledgment of my existence.

As I followed them into the store, they were mumbling to each other, and while I wasn't paying much attention to them, I definitely heard "creeper".

At that point, it kind of messed me up for the rest of the day. At first I was kind of insulted, I just did something nice and now I'm a "Creeper"? But then I was pissed. I couldn't help thinking, just because someone does one small act of kindness for you does not mean that they want to get in your panties. There are some of us that just do things like that. And it must be a sad life that you have to think that everyone around you that does good things or bad, only has a motivation to get in your panties.

Cerenex · 2013-07-02T16:49:09+00:00

I actually had an old high-school classmate, lets call her Jessi, who once posted "I long for the days when men would hold doors open for women. Where is Chivalry now?"

I responded with the exact statement posted in this heading, and cited that women cannot demand both special treatment and equal treatment simultaneously, as by definition that would not constitute equal treatment of both genders.

Over the course of the 7 hours that followed the posting of that comment, I found myself ganged up on by no less than 9 feminists, including Jessi and a male friend of hers who urged me to "see the light" and that he "was also a feminist, despite being a man".

Eventually, Jessi simply decided to delete her post, citing that it had "gotten completely out-of-hand", while simultaneously declaring that her argument was clearly the overall winner, as more people supported her stance in the comment bar (of a post that only myself and her feminist friends could reply to in the first place) and then finished it off with some scolding remark somewhere in line with "bad boy!". She deleted me off of facebook shortly after that.

What shocked me the most is that this was a girl who I recall, barely 2 years before all this, to be an intelligent, thoughtful and level-headed person, who never, not even once in the 5 years I knew her, let emotions get the better of her. Compared to the nonsensical, aggressive, misandrist and very much infuriated responses I received that morning, it was as if the girl I actually once had a lot of respect for never even existed.

dungone · 2013-07-02T13:29:25+00:00

Feminism is chivalry. http://i.imgur.com/sg017lt.gif

The really agitating thing about this is that the woman admits to taking advantage of men and loving it - the only problem is that she is concerned that it might harm other women, until she dismisses it off-hand as nonsense. With nary a thought of it possibly being unfair to men.

Mytecacc · 2013-07-02T12:44:49+00:00

Good riddance too.

I believe that kind of chivalry, is really just an older form of feminism anyway. Rich women got together and made up lots of social and dating rules and protocols.

yungbroccoli · 2013-07-02T15:42:38+00:00

This article lacks any real content.

ExpendableOne · 2013-07-02T13:46:42+00:00

This is pretty funny, if not even ironic, because feminism never really set out to end chivalry in the first place. No feminist ever said "mmm... yeah, chivalry is pretty demeaning and detrimental to men. We should treat men better and work on getting women to stop expecting this because harmful to men". Feminism still expects chivalry in just about every aspect of life and, throughout its entire existence, has depended on chivalry to strive and survive.

What feminism did set out to do is demonize male attraction, male sexuality and male expectations(which were, at the time, in a symbiotic relation with female expectations). Chivalry is still alive and going strong, in many regards, but there certainly has been a backlash from men as a response to feminism. When gestures of love and respect are taken for granted or belittled, that builds resentment and anger. That is what "killed" chivalry(or at least reduced it enough for it to be noticed by entitled women who still don't really appreciate or recognize the preferential treatment they get for being women, or the selflessness that men offer her).

HappyGerbil88 · 2013-07-02T15:39:43+00:00

This article was a joke...lets let men do the hard things, give up things, and we will gracefully let them? How big of us.

gsettle · 2013-07-02T16:42:40+00:00

Chivalry, decency, whatever. Best advice is to ignore women at work as much as possible. HR thrives on female complaints.

KinArt · 2013-07-02T22:24:45+00:00

Instead of doing special things for men or women, why not just treat all humans with dignity and respect? I never understood chivalry. Why open the door for a woman, but not for a man? We live in modern times, let's just be polite to all people.

--A female door-holder.

HappyGerbil88 · 2013-07-02T15:41:36+00:00

Yeah, Feminism gave men a funny notion that maybe we should be treated like equals too. Chivalry is and always has been "sexism that is designed to benefit women at the expense of men." Way back when, this corresponded to sexism that benefited men at the expense of women. We pay for dinner, they make us a sandwich. I know so many Feminists who try to argue "Feminism doesn't mean that chivalry has to die!" or who simply lament the downfall of chivalry. What they're basically saying is "Just because I'm a Feminist doesn't mean I can't support sexism that benefits me!" Try pointing this out to them, and they roll their eyes and say it's not that big of a deal, it's just gentlemen being nice to ladies, right?

I’m as “feminist” as the next woman – if that means supporting gender equality

Lulz. "I support gender equality, but, you know.... don't treat me like an equal unless it benefits me." The article seems to be about Feminists complaining about chivalry... those Feminists are in the minority in my experience. Most follow the author's view of "I'm a Feminist, I support gender equality, but I still want to subject men to double standards when it benefits me"

Freddulz · 2013-07-02T16:34:53+00:00

Funny thing is, chivalry is more about the brotherhood amongst men than it is the treatment of women - a fact all but completely forgotten in today's world. Chivalry was born from early warrior-society concepts like comitatus that created a kinship between men that was often stronger than marriages. A knight was chivalrous if they were loyal to their liege and fellow knights; the courtly love and protection was only a by-product that slowly took over the denotative meaning of chivalry. Now, chivalry is just a shell of what it used to mean.

cuteman · 2013-07-02T17:11:21+00:00

I appreciated this from a young age.

Do you want to be special and have the door held open for you or do you want to be truly equal and share responsibility? It seems that most women want both-- which isn't suprising, but it is not exactly reasonable.

tectonic9 · 2013-07-02T21:40:23+00:00

Chivalry is a warrior code. Before the longbow and the pike, power in Europe depended largely upon controlling an army of professional armored killers. How do you do that? Sure, you offer them land and wealth and exemption from the laws of commoners. But you also foster a code that offers them respect when they do what you want and shame when they do otherwise. (note that this principal works in any military, prison, office, police force, group of friends, etc. It is a standard aspect of alliances of male peers.)

Many people have had their influence on the code called chivalry, in order to control classes of men for their own security. If you're a king, you tweak the code to make a virtue of loyalty to authority and unquestioning obedience, and you valorize death in battle. If you're a church leader, you tweak the code to extol piety, defense of the faith, and extermination of infidels. If you're another warrior, you tweak the code to make a virtue of fair play. If you're a woman, you tweak the code to make male sexual restraint, fidelity, and deference to women into virtues. Over the years, this professional warrior code trickled down to the Archie Comics sort of universal emasculated male chivalry, because most people like to emulate the class above them (while the combat aspects of chivalry faded as professional knights gave way to conscripts with armor-piercing weaponry and later to professional modern soldier - the Geneva Conventions are sort of a modern warrior's chivalry).

Codes of honor are basically the cheat codes for controlling men. Respect and shame are the carrot and stick for enforcing codes. This process has not slowed at all. Your adherence to codes is used as a lever to control you every time someone calls you a pussy because you turn down a shot of tequila, every time someone tells you you must have a small dick because you disagreed with feminist conspiracy theories, every time someone high-fived you for a stunt that could have knocked your teeth out, every time someone put on their "snitches get stitches" t-shirt, every time someone told you that you didn't "talk black" enough, etc. The list is infinite.

Women have codes too, but they seem to be less about the woman and her immediate circle, and more about the woman and society as a whole. While men's codes are largely about manipulating men's capacity for violence and labor, women's codes are mostly about their capacity for sex and reproduction. "Don't be (or appear to be) a slut" is the closest that women have to male codes such as "die for your king, country, faith, or any random woman."

Feminists have been telling women to rebel against their manipulation by codes of behavior, and they're right to do so. There will be consequences for going against the grain of course. And of course, just because the code pressures you to behave in a certain way, doesn't mean the opposite is always a better idea. But the code does not exist for your benefit, it exists for the benefit of society, or of oligarchs, or of families, or of nations. Examine your allegiances and your morals, eliminate shame and respect (wow, that's tough) as motivations, and forge your own code as an individual.

^{^Edit:} ^{^formatting}

Ford42 · 2013-07-02T17:00:17+00:00

I was in a relationship some time ago with a woman who had been poisoned by feminism. I really was into her because of her independence (or so I thought) and the fact that she had still retained a level of femininity.

We dated for some time and I always paid for meals and outings. That was OK, I am older, that's the way I was raised. I was also raised to help a woman with her coat, to hold the chair for her, to open the door (building or car), to walk on the outside of the sidewalk closer to the street, etc.

One night after a nice meal at a nice restaurant, that I paid for, I held the door for her. As she walked past she let out a heavy sigh saying, "you know when you hold the door for me, as a feminist, it makes me feel like a second class citizen."

That really kind of hurt, I believed I was doing everything right and I liked her a lot, or so I thought. But it also got my ire up so I said "fine, it will never happen again."

It didn't, the next "date" when I picked her up I simply honked the horn, stayed in the drivers seat and let her open her own damn door. She was a bit taken a back I must say. When we went to dinner and the check came I asked if she would care to pay this time since I knew she was a feminist and I didn't want to assume or offend. Man the look on her face was priceless. She mumbled something about not having her wallet and I said "don't worry that's fine I've got it this time, I'll let you treat next time."

We stopped going out shortly after, but we kept in touch on and off over the years. When I was in her city over the holidays a few years back she suggested we meet for dinner. We had a very nice meal at a great restaurant, I paid of course. With drinks and tip over $120. Afterwards we went for a walk in the city looking at all of the Christmas lights. She suggested we stop for coffee and desert. I said great. When the check came she said "Let me pay for that, its the least I can do since you bought dinner." I'm thinking wow she's matured a bit. When I said "thanks, that would be nice" she gave me that same look I got eight years before when I asked her to pay for dinner. I guess I was supposed to say "oh no let me." Instead she said, "really?" I then said, "that's OK I have it."

In the end I didn't hold the door for her at all that night. She got a free meal, yes but I guess because she was feeling a bit guilty or horny or both, she let me fuck her that night.

She called me on and off for several months after that and even asked if there was a chance we could get back together (not a chance bitch). Haven't seen her since.

I rarely open the doors for women anymore, unless they are over 70. And my current girlfriend pays for half of all our meals out. (Plus the sex is much better when you aren't kissing their ass).

My advise to women is "You can't have it both ways bitches." Personally, I'm happy that feminism liberated me, an old fart, from the tyranny of Chivalry.

Xenoith · 2013-07-02T12:16:10+00:00

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/sex/8575363/Chivalry-is-actually-benevolent-sexism-feminists-conclude.html

Ecocide113 · 2013-07-02T21:04:48+00:00

What the fuck is wrong with people... Why's everyone gotta make it all complicated. Why can't everyone just, you know, be nice to other people. It doesn't matter if it's a male being nice to a women. Or a women being nice to a male. Or a male being nice to a male. etc.

It's absurd for a girl to expect to be treated better than a male, because she's a female. And vice versa. If a women walks through a door with a male behind her, open the door for him. If you care about someone, take care of them, reguardless of what fucking gender they are. FFs. /endrant.

2013-07-02T13:51:32+00:00

Fuck chivalry.

ILoveHate · 2013-07-02T18:33:06+00:00

Too bad? Chivalry was a two way street. Women stopped doing their half about 50 years ago. There's no reason men need to keep doing this crap just because women like it. Giving free cash to women makes them happy too, but I don't see too many people going around doing that.

Holding doors open is not chivalry, it's being considerate. Going out of you way to open a car door and holding the door open for someone who's perfectly capable on the other hand is chivalry, but it just seems ridiculous to me.

4man · 2013-07-02T21:39:05+00:00

Chivalry, as it is described today, is simply pedestalising of women. it is not the same as politeness which can be extended to a person regardless of their sex.

sweetcrosstatbro · 2013-07-02T23:17:35+00:00

I can't tell you how many times I've opened the door for a group of people and one woman just stands there saying I can get it myself. I'm being a decent person to another person! Don't be a fucking cunt about it!

Fokillew · 2013-07-02T23:29:55+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Revoran · 2013-07-03T01:18:41+00:00

Feminism didn't kill chivalry, it got rid of the parts it didn't like and kept the parts it did.

SCARfaceRUSH · 2013-07-02T15:01:13+00:00

I don't know, I was brought up with these ideas. Men should take care of their women, just as much as women should in their respective ways.

What if I like to open the door for my girlfriend? What if I like to pay for the dinner - that's something that satisfies me. But not in a sense "haha, that bitch is totally dependent on me, I'm so masculine", in a sense that "I care about that person, these little things help me show how much I care, apart from anything else".

slinkyman98 · 2013-07-02T15:15:22+00:00

I wouldn't mind killing chivalry. It's one good thing feminism has done. This article is kind of smelling of entitlement as well. Sometimes I just wanted to be treated like a lady. That is not a good thing. The very definition of sexism is treating people differently because of gender. I hold doors open for people not just women because it is a polite and helpful thing to do. I may give up my bus seat to someone man or woman if they are holding a lot of things or something like that. I won't give up my seat to a woman because she is a woman. If feminism has killed chivalry I'm fine with that.

BreezyD · 2013-07-02T17:01:04+00:00

The author sounds obnoxious and entitled.

p3ngwin · 2013-07-02T17:25:34+00:00

sometimes i wonder what it would be like to remind those women that if they were a man, it would be apparently legitimate to beat the shit out of them.

jonnytechno · 2013-07-03T02:11:58+00:00

It's interesting how there isn't a feminine equivalent of chivalry ... they just don't do it

ThePigman · 2013-07-03T02:38:05+00:00

If true, this is probably the only good thing feminism has done. Of course, it isn't true. Feminism simply dresses chivalry in a different garb and calls it things like affirmative action.

2013-07-02T22:04:35+00:00

Chivalry needed to die. But feminism is not what killed it. In fact feminists enocurage chivalry whenever possible.

Kirkayak · 2013-07-02T17:23:09+00:00

True chivalry was protection of the females, but also of the weak and the unfortunate.

MRMRising · 2013-07-02T22:34:58+00:00

Thankfully, there are still men out there who will take your coat, pull out the chair and pay for dinner,

Sounds like MGTOW has some public awareness work to do.

they whine, when a woman simply wants to be looked after and treated like a lady.

How about I treat you as an equal? Open the door yourself, carry your own groceries, and pay for your own damn dinner.

Blurgas · 2013-07-03T06:13:45+00:00

Mostly relevant comic: http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=4684

jcookie1991 · 2013-07-02T15:52:39+00:00

I agree, the feminists helped destroy chivalry. Unless I know the female and comfortable with them, I am very reluctant to hold the door for a girl or things of this nature only because I'm afraid of offending someone, especially working in the corporate world. I don't mind being a "gentleman" but its getting harder in a society were you can potentially get in trouble for holding a door for a women. I would say the majority of women would love this and find it a very kind gesture, but there are some out there that have an absolute skewed view on the mans intention when he tries to practice "chivalry."

HippoLips · 2013-07-02T18:34:04+00:00

It's only dead to people who listen to feminists. Those are guys who usually wonder why women don't love and respect them anymore even though they're trying so hard to do everything exactly as the ladies tell them.

vaselinepete · 2013-07-02T19:42:14+00:00

Bait

2013-07-02T23:06:27+00:00

Yep.

Captaincastle · 2013-07-03T01:04:04+00:00

Honestly while I agree with the authors point, something about her tone just sets me off.

Viro_Lopes · 2013-07-03T01:54:22+00:00

Chivalry is not dead, m'lady.

tbwfree · 2013-07-03T09:42:50+00:00

Chivalry is still here.

Froztwolf · 2013-07-03T12:38:45+00:00

I try to treat everyone with respect and dignity. Women just as much as men, but not more.

mywifeisaninja · 2013-07-03T14:13:43+00:00

This does bug me in a way. For me it's not really about chivalry, it's just that, I like you and I want to do nice/kind things for you. I think even if I were gay, I'd want to buy dinner/pull out chair/hold door for that person. It really has little to do with the fact that they're a woman, it's just because I like that person and want to be nice.

2013-07-03T14:54:59+00:00

Chivalry is bullshit.. needed to go anyhow. Nothing wrong with being a gentlemen but chivalry is bs. FFS women don't need more privilege.

DisplacedTitan · 2013-07-03T19:08:14+00:00

"TIL Water is wet."

theskepticalidealist · 2013-07-02T14:32:20+00:00

Chivalry is just another name for Male Obligation and Feminism is trying to increase it tenfold. The difference is that rather than hold a door open or throw my cape over a puddle, they demand that I pay higher taxes and more for health insurance wherein through a middleman called Obama, women receive my chivalry in spades.

Downvoted by feminists no doubt.

kemloten · 2013-07-02T15:28:19+00:00

I dunno about the rest of you, but I still feel completely obligated to be chivalrous. It seems more like women want both equal opportunity in society and special treatment by men.

clockworkgirl21 · 2013-07-02T17:10:51+00:00

I have to wonder why I need men to do these things for me. I have arms, I can open a door. I can hold my own coat. I can pay for my food. I'm a grown up.

2013-07-03T01:30:18+00:00

Just watch, women are going to lose their minds about how sexist it is for men to not be chivalric. A new breed of lawsuit is on its way.

snbatman · 2013-07-02T19:34:24+00:00

It's the money part that really gets me.

CootCut · 2013-07-03T12:49:46+00:00

Basic common courtesy applied equally.

Until those clucking biddies squawking constantly demanding this and that start demanding something they tend to ignore... RESPONSIBILITIES..... I will mainly ignore the dames.

Special treatment for dames? They already have it. Males are forced to sign up for the military draft but females are exempt.

Squawk about that responsibility denied you little girls.

Civil behavior by me continues but scurry away you feminist clucking hens. Go be useful somewhere... if you can.

Bawk. Cluck. Squawk.

deajd · 2013-07-02T14:10:49+00:00

"Fuck chivalry"? "Good riddance"? If you expect us girls to also help you out with stuff, then you'd better fucking stop thinking you're going to be considered weak. If you can overcome that it's silly for me to hold the door for you, then I will do it without you being embarassed about it. M'kay? For example, the reason my bf carries the heavier groceries is because he is stronger than I am and also because HE wants to. I don't tell him anything. Sure, sometimes my share can still be heavy, but still carry it because he already has enough.

Title	Feminism killed chivalry
Author	[deleted]
Upvotes	603
Comments	433
Date	July 2, 2013 12:13 PM UTC (13 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/1hhq4q/feminism_killed_chivalry/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/feminism-killed-chivalry.1169717 https://theredarchive.com/post/1169717

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