This guy says it perfectly

CaptainnT · 2017-07-20T06:37:34+00:00

Man is drunk

Woman is drunk

Man and woman have sex

Woman regrets it

Man is told he's a rapist because she was too drunk, man's intoxication doesn't matter.

MagicTampon · 2017-07-20T03:47:50+00:00

Correct. Self-intoxication is not like other forms of disability. Self-intoxication is a state brought about by the intentional consumption of alcoholic beverages by an adult who knows what the consequences of drinking will be.

A person who self intoxicates assumes responsibility for their self-intoxicated actions.

Only a completely morally defective jerk self-intoxicates, then holds other people responsible for their own drunken actions. Ditto for any state that allows for incarceration on that basis.

There are those who make comparisons between civil contracts and criminal law to try to support the incarceration of counter-parties to conscious, but drunken sex. This is morally defective.

Being self-intoxicated is little excuse for much of anything of significance, because being self-intoxicated is a state induced by one's own choice and actions, for which one is ultimately accountable. This is true in virtually all areas of law.

A car salesman for example is acting in a professional capacity and has obligations that are far over and above what either party has when two people transacting as equals in a casual / non-business situation. Two people consensually fucking are just that -- two people with no one having more of an obligation than the other. If one is acting like a self-intoxicated drunken idiot, the other may be just as idiotic, for whatever reason, drunken or otherwise.

As much as feminists may whine otherwise, sex is not at all the equivalent purchasing shoes from a shoe salesman, where you get to return the shoes to the salesman the day afterwards if you later discover that you are unsatisfied.

And also note, in the case of the car dealer, the drunk consumer may be entitled to a return of the car (which they may even get if they weren't drunk when they bought the car). But note, it's not considered theft of the drunk person's money, and the car salesman does not go to prison under any circumstance for theft or for any other crime. It's simply the unwinding of a fiduciary / civil contract (if possible), which is the most that might (or might not) occur.

If it's possible, the salesman might simply be required to give your your money back in exchange for the car. Then again, he might not be. And of course, if you ruined or trashed the car in the interim and the car is not returnable, the drunk person would be entitled to exactly jack shit.

Consider it a form of restricted clemency for self-intoxicated people -- if the courts as a civil matter can unwind a transaction entered into while a person is self-intoxicated, and if the courts can unwind the transaction with a minimal of harm to the counter party, the court may choose to do so as an act of clemency. But causing significant harm to the counter party to a self-intoxicated action, or imprisoning a counter party, is not a form of clemency for a self-intoxicated person, and is something that the court should never do.

So, in summary, a self-intoxicated person who chooses to have sex may be entitled to politely ask for their "fuck" back, but since that's completely impossible, they are shit out of luck. Under no circumstances does anyone go to prison. Because it's a tall order to send someone else to prison just because you self-intoxicated / jacked your own shit up and wound up choosing to do something you later regretted. That's just completely retarded.

Another illustrative example is when a 40 year-old ridiculously self-intoxicates himself / herself in the presence of a 15 year old. If the 15 year-old and the self-intoxicated 40 year old then both chose to have sex with one another, guess who is going to go to jail? Not the 15 year-old -- even if the 15 year-old were a hundred times more clear-headed than the adult had been at the time. The person going to jail is the self-intoxicated 40 year-old. Why? Because choosing to self-intoxicate is not much of an excuse for anything. You are largely responsible for anything that you do while self-intoxicated. If you can't be held accountable, your only choice is to not drink.

fourthwallcrisis · 2017-07-20T04:50:20+00:00

A small point of order on this; there's different kinds of drunkeness and that can change things.

The most common by far is when we black out, but still make choices. This happens because our brain stops forming memories, it doesn't stop us making informed choices at the time. So it follows that the majority of "can't remember rapes" were actually consensual encounters (the alternative is they were forced rapes, which is difficult to believe).

The other kind of drunk is black out, falling over, puking into your own pints kinda drunk. And then it's always wrong to do anything with someone in that position, no argument there.

theothermod · 2017-07-20T06:24:04+00:00

The title of your post does not say anything about its subject. This forces people to click and read before they can decide whether they are interested.

If everyone did this, the subreddit would become unusable.

So please don't do it. Take the time to describe your link, and save the time of hundreds of other people.

In future, such posts may be removed.

amatera5 · 2017-07-20T14:19:50+00:00

Anecdotal I know but my girl got blackout drunk one night and didn't remember us having sex. She does however remember herself insisting we have sex right before we did.

She was telling her coworkers soon after (she rarely blacks out and thought it was funny how insistent she was) and a couple of her female coworkers put in their best concerned faces and told her I raped her. Completely serious. This is with the girl herself admitting she remembers insisting she wanted to fuck.

Some fucking people man..

Everyone_Staflos · 2017-07-20T11:02:46+00:00

Take it from a guy who was raped by a woman when he was drunk, it's rape. I was not cognizant when I was manipulated and used for sex while drunk. I was in a committed relationship and this woman used me to get back at an ex-bf that was at the wedding because the guy and I had beef.

I got an STD from her, I had constant anxiety for months because no one told me why my dick burned. I had to come to my girlfriend of 5 years and tell her to get tested when I connected the dots of the night.

I don't know how she got me alone and why my brain let me get in that situation but I was drunk and I was raped.

Unfortunately, I can't prosecute or confront my rapist. It's too much for me, the only comfort I have is the STD will eventually cause sterility from pelvic inflammatory disease. She doesn't deserve children.

Alliewh33lz · 2017-07-20T08:20:04+00:00

This scenario happened on the TV show switched at birth and the entire time you're supposed to feel sorry for the woman. All I could think of was poor Tank. She basically ruined his life because she got so drunk she didn't remember sleeping with him. Ended up ruining his life forever. He was one of my favorite characters and she fucked him over. A real nice guy. Not a "nice guy" but a genuine nice guy. I don't understand how she isn't held to the same standards. He was also too drunk to remember much. Just that they were together. Why didn't she get expelled? It's bullshit.

mrwhibbley · 2017-07-20T03:22:07+00:00

I disagree with some of this. Intentionally taking advantage of someone in an altered state (regardless of the gender of the victim or "perpetrator") is wrong. I have refused to have sex with women that were drunk. The only exception being my wife when we were out at a casino or vacation. Some might argue she didn't Consent but she wasn't unconscious and rarely refuses advances when she is sober unless she is very tired or ill. However, I 100% agree that people should take responsibility for their actions and monitor their intake of drugs and alcohol, and be aware of who they are with and where they are going. Regret is not rape.

ColonelVirus · 2017-07-20T14:28:59+00:00

Gonna invent a consent app... solve all these problems! /s

ausertoremember · 2017-07-20T06:15:01+00:00

To make a point using an example from my life: in college a friend videotaped bits and pieces of a party and there was footage of me 1 canvassing the group to order pizza 2 drunkenly hitting on several girls 3 making out with a girl on the dance floor

The embarrassing parts that I was in I either don't remember or only remembered after seeing the video. I brought dance floor girl home that night and my memory is very hazy, I remember grabbing condoms and bits and pieces of the 'event'. I woke and did not remember how I got home, who was beside me, or what we did. It took time for the night to come together.

I was able to do all of those things, make all of those choices, walk, talk, and most of all, consent despite my lack of memory and visible drunkenness. My impairment does not absolve me of that ability, and that is what we have to remember for everyone. Regret cannot equal rape.

RancidFruit · 2017-07-20T10:13:23+00:00

I'm on board for the most part but why in the case of the man being the only witness should his word be looked at as truth? He could easily be lying.

Apremium · 2017-07-20T05:13:31+00:00

Alot of people don't realize that you can be "black out drunk" and still highly functional. People have literally woken up in other countries after getting drunk. No one even realized they were intoxicated. Alcoholics: back me up here ;)

Women can enthusiastically consent to sex, not appear overly intoxicated, and have no memory of what transpired. This is where the myth of "date rape" and drink spiking comes from.

TibortheChechen · 2017-07-20T15:47:13+00:00

Men Can't Win Under Feminism

If a man catches a glimpse of a woman changing her clothes, she's the victim of a Peeping Tom.

If a woman catches a glimpse of a man changing his clothes, she's the victim of an exhibitionist.

fireandbass · 2017-07-20T13:48:46+00:00

Even shorter:

An intoxicated person is capable of giving consent, while an incapacitated person is not.

Every time you see a conversation about this, incapacitated should be your go to keyword. It doesn't matter if you were drunk or what you were on, it matters if you were incapacitated or not.

SilverGryphon · 2017-07-20T14:27:38+00:00

Don't fuck drunk women, it's not worth the risk. I wouldn't feel good about it as deep down I would know that she only allowed me to fuck her because she was out of her senses and not because she found me attractive. That kinda kills the boner. This is why I can never bang hookers. I could tell they don't really like me and that kills the mood.

The best sex you can ever have is with a woman who is bat shit crazy about you as she'll do anything in bed to keep you around.

iiooiooi · 2017-07-20T14:52:03+00:00

I've always questioned this duality. If it's not possible to consent to sex while intoxicated then why do we hold dunk drivers accountable for their actions? By that logic drunk drivers didn't know enough not to get behind the wheel, therefore they can't be blamed for driving drunk. Of course we blame drunk drivers for what they do. No one bats an eye, and they shouldn't. But once sex is involved alcohol becomes the great eraser.

It doesn't make sense.

SHOW_ME_SEXY_TATS · 2017-07-20T15:02:24+00:00

So, this is both right and wrong.

In most situations then no, just because you are drunk doesn't mean that you can claim that you were raped if you consented.

However, in the case where you are so drunk that you can't make decisions AND the guy knew (or should have known) that you couldn't make those decisions then you probably were raped.

There is a grey area there where it is down to a judgement call.

In the case that both parties were that drunk, well, it is arguable that either both or neither party committed a crime.

2017-07-20T11:13:08+00:00

If regret is rape, millions of men paying child support are rape survivors.

TheMacPhisto · 2017-07-20T08:42:39+00:00

Seems like this is going on a whole bunch as of late... Special interest groups changing definitions of strong words to fit their own agenda.

Regret is Rape, Difference of Opinion is Racism or Sexism, Commercial Media Outlets claiming to be pure journalism...

It's a shame all these groups feel the need to attack language because their arguments hold no merit on their own.

GlobTwo · 2017-07-20T12:11:15+00:00

I dunno about that whole paragraph about "what usually happens..." It surely does happen, but I have trouble believing that's the most common consequence of drunk sex.

And while the rest is reasonable enough, if you're sober and they're drunk... Best to leave it for another night.

SergePower · 2017-07-20T15:06:17+00:00

If a drunk woman drives a car, gambles, punches, eats, or destroys something she is reponsible.

If she does something naughty she is not.

Perhaps the SJW argument is that women should not have autonomy over their own body.

Captain_Yid · 2017-07-20T17:34:34+00:00

The only part I disagree with is his assertion that "with zero proof the entire jury just believes her." I've dealt with my fair share of juries in my life time and most of the time, they seem to take the burden of proof very seriously. If a prosecutor had the gall to take that sort of case to the jury (and most prosecutors wouldn't), it would be very difficult (albeit not impossible) to find 12 people to unanimously vote to convict someone beyond a reasonable doubt.

Icecoldsomethingelse · 2017-07-20T13:16:29+00:00

In case you're wondering where this idea came from, why it feels like someone is waging a war on men; it's a weapon of war developed by the Soviet Union.

I know, I know, I sound like a total crackpot. But hear me out.

When the USSR and the USA realized they could not fight each other militarily because of the nuclear bomb a new strategy had to be invented to destroy the enemy.

The USA opted for economic destruction of the soviet union, as the economy was always their weakness. And the soviet union opted for cultural demoralization of the USA as freedom of speech was their perceived weakness.

The Soviets planted, on purpose, starting in the 1960, intellectuals and ideas to promote the concept of "social justice" whereas one isn't only due justice on an individual basis but on a group basis.

That is the core idea behind Marxism.

That strategy wasn't an overnight thing, the attack had to convert one or two generations of students, via their teachers, to the ideas of social justice in order to get any results, in fact, 80% of the KGB budget was dedicated to this only task, demoralizing the USA. Spying was a very secondary activity for the KGB.

This man explains it much better than I ever could since he set it up, definitely worth a look:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QJ2fMeer5Mw

So yeah the current madness is the Soviet empire reaching out from the grave to destroy america. No shit.

IfJohnWasJohnson · 2017-07-20T10:24:53+00:00

I don't agree completely, sure that when people drink it's their choice to do so. But under different circumstances they probably would change their decision based on how clear their thinking is. I definitely don't think its rape if a drunk girl consents to sex with a sober guy, but the guy definitely has a responsibility in that situation to make the right choice. He could take advantage of her, not necessarily rape, but still bad. I believe the same goes for vice versa, if we are going to hold one sex to a standard then we should hold the other to the same principles.

viper12a1a · 2017-07-20T14:23:23+00:00

Actually I would be fine with a woman reporting a rape to police if she didn't remember IF. IF. IF. IF. IF. IF. IF it wasn't made public record and all names were withheld and all identities protected until any evidence was gathered and some sort of proof could be presented.

cappiebara · 2017-07-20T14:28:04+00:00

Also, I have had make friends drunk and a desperate woman continually trying to take advantage of him. He kept passing out and she kept crawling into his bed groping him... He eventually had to really yell at her after the 5th attempt and lock the door.

The next day she turns the story around saying he was being a jerk etc.

What the what?! She was fucking crazy...

mtbguy1981 · 2017-07-20T15:34:55+00:00

I've made this argument so many times... A women gets drunk , get in her car and runs someone over. She is held fully responsibility. However, if she gets drunk and has sex, it was out of her control.

atlastic1 · 2017-07-20T17:32:34+00:00

Woman gets drunk and burns down a building -> She is responsible for her own behaviour, jail.

Woman gets drunk and punches someone breaking their nose -> She is responsible for her own behaviour, jail.

Woman gets drunk and sleeps with a man -> Can't be considered consent! Man goes to jail.

If we could all just get drunk before doing stupid shit in order to be absolved of responsibility, the world would already be ashes and wreckage.

Ultimately, if you consent to getting off your face falling down drunk, you consent to everything you will do while intoxicated, until you are actually unconscious.

2017-07-20T18:55:51+00:00

I get downvoted like crazy if I say it in any other sub, but you are the only person responsible for your decisions if you compromise your own ability to think.

And it is not "blaming the victim" to say that you can foolishly increase your chances of becoming a victim by doing dumb things like ingesting chemicals. If I don't want my car broken into I won't park it in compton with an ipad on the drivers seat.

slightly_dull · 2017-07-20T20:25:39+00:00

I've had sex several times before whilst I've been blackout drunk and I do consider it rape. I would not have given consent if I had been in the right sense of mind. Consent given whilst drunk is not consent. I'm a guy btw, not that that should change anything.

TheGrammarBazi · 2017-07-21T07:07:23+00:00

While I generally agree with your notion, you are misrepresenting the original argument. The real reason people argue that drunk sex could be rape is not about recollection or regret. It's about the legal concept of capacity.

Here's, for example, the guideline from some random college. Notice how it doesn't mention anything about memory loss or number of witnesses. By the way, as a general rule, you should know that one witness is no witness. No court would blindly take the word of one single witness, especially when that witness is also the alleged perpetrator of the criminal act. That's just stupid.

Anyway, if we were to consider sexual consent as a form of contract, then the validity of the contract may depend on the agreeing parties' capacity to give consent. In some cases, for example, if you sign a contract while drunk, you can later argue that you had diminished capacity while signing and therefore there wasn't a meeting of the minds. In other words, you're saying that you wouldn't have signed the contract if you hadn't been drunk, therefore the contract should be void.

This is where the rape thing comes. The argument goes: "If this person hadn't been drunk, they wouldn't have consented to sex. Therefore, the consent given was invalid." So, the argument has nothing to do with regret or changing one's mind, because, according to the argument, there was no changing of mind. That person, the argument says, never wanted to have sex and only did so because they were drunk. (This, of course, is a very hard thing to prove in a court, but that's what the argument says.)

Here's where it gets murky. Simply being drunk is not sufficient to successfully argue incapacity. Let's say, for example, that you want to murder someone. However, you can't bring yourself to do that. Every time you point your gun at them, you can't pull the trigger. So, you decide to get drunk first. When drunk, it's easier to pull the trigger and you manage to kill the person. In this case, you can't use your drunkenness as a mitigating factor (which you could in the case of a drunken bar fight), because you purposefully got yourself drunk in order to commit the act. So, if we transfer this concept to drunken sex, getting yourself drunk in order to have lowered inhibitions and have sex with a stranger can't be used to argue diminished capacity, because you did that for the very purpose of having sex.

Now, if the other person successfully got you drunk in order to put out, then you may have a case, as you would if a salesman purposefully got you drunk in order to sign the contract more easily. But, it would have to be argued reasonably. Any adult knows that alcohol lowers inhibitions, so you can't really argue that it's not your fault, unless you manage to prove some sort of deception. (For example, the person told me that the wine was watered down, but it wasn't. But still, the other side could argue that only an alcoholic wouldn't be able to detect the alcohol content of a drink.)

Another case where incapacity can be successfully argued is when one person is so drunk that they have passed out. If you're unconscious, you can't give consent.

As for the whole "but they were both drunk" argument, it's actually very silly. Being drunk is a very general concept. People at different levels of alcohol intoxication can have different levels of mental impairment. In other words, you can have two drunk people where one can consent and the other can't, simply because of their differences in tolerance. If both parties were equally incapacitated, then obviously no one was raped.

Azukus · 2017-07-20T07:28:23+00:00

i just hate how we're held accountable for our actions and they arent

Mens-Advocate · 2017-07-20T07:27:12+00:00

Let's not miss the forest for the trees. Regret is not rape. Drunken sex should not be rape.

But such absurdities are only one pretext among others for

giving every woman absolute, life-or-death power over any male even slightly involved with her
keeping high the price men must pay for the female presence
keeping men submissive
advancing the feminist end objective of criminalizing EWM (existing while male).

beastlyjesus · 2017-07-20T12:55:09+00:00

I agree with some of this, a lot of rape accusations are fucked up. Most guys here are missing a huge point though: Young girls who get too drunk largely because of inexperience and then pass out, a guy then has his way with her no consent given. I personally have 3 friends who have been a victim of this. Its not regret, they never had a choice, on all 3 occasions they were simply looking for someone to take of them because they were too drunk and these assholes took advantage.

Hornet402 · 2017-07-20T06:17:55+00:00

Can I upvote this more than once?

bufedad · 2017-07-20T08:17:27+00:00

Gonna get y'all fuckers drunk as shit, to the point where you can't remember what the hell you did. Then i'm gonna whip out my contract stating you give all your money and land to me. Might tell you it's a contract to give you a few more beers. Maybe i'll say it's a contract to get someone to take you home safely. Yaaknow, just a waiver to say that if you puke in my car it's not my fault. Then when you sign it, i'm going to grab my lawyer and argue the same shit you are here.

SaturnisVictor · 2017-07-20T11:59:28+00:00

This is such a western world problem

heijutsu · 2017-07-20T12:37:07+00:00

Except if both parties are intoxicated it is still rape and the man is still the responsible party.

2017-07-20T13:37:12+00:00

Yeah. I'm going to need you to sign this consent and waiver form before we get jiggy with it.

SrsSteel · 2017-07-20T15:42:15+00:00

Here's a concept. If a woman does get raped and it's he said she said, then what

Dutch5-1 · 2017-07-20T16:04:56+00:00

It doesn't make sense to me that somebody who is to drive drunk and murder a family with no recollection of it is at fault (as they should be) yet if that same person were to get drunk, consent to sex, have no recollection of it the next day, and then regret it and cry rape there is suddenly no responsibility to be held by them.

shydude92 · 2017-07-20T16:35:21+00:00

It's not just being drunk, I'm pretty sure there's already been a case where a man has been convicted of, or at least charged with rape because the woman had literally 1-2 drinks, and then claimed that despite appearing completely sober, she wasn't capable of giving consent.

And if there hasn't been a case like that yet, it's only a matter of time, because these days the police and courts are willing to believe anything lest they be accused of "condoning sexual violence" or "blaming the victim"

theundeadturtle · 2017-07-20T16:59:12+00:00

Fuck yeah, preach bruva

2017-07-20T17:29:02+00:00

You guys remember the shitstorm over David Brock? Man, this picture completely explains what happened there, but it was completely normal on reddit to wish him dead, even on tame sub reddits like politics or something.

AgentSkidMarks · 2017-07-20T21:26:57+00:00

This is so important. I bet our fine friends over at r/feminism wouldn't agree in the slightest

condorama · 2017-07-20T21:48:07+00:00

Another way to frame this in a conversation: why do you think women don't have the right to get really drunk and have sex?

Rethgil · 2017-07-20T22:07:29+00:00

'Regret is not rape'?

But you forget one thing...

...Feminism is not Finking.

ShiverinMaTimbers · 2017-07-20T23:17:06+00:00

Seems like we just shouldn't let women drink at all. Would avoid 99.9% of these issues.

2017-07-20T23:24:50+00:00

/r/againsthatesubreddits declares this post "pro-rape" lol

agreenway · 2017-07-20T23:24:56+00:00

Agreed, for sure. That's why I'm still here :) there are some really intelligent people here and their opinions are the ones I dig through all these posts to see!

condorama · 2017-07-20T23:32:27+00:00

I think if it doesn't upset you then you weren't raped, yes. Technicalities that exist today take away from the nature of crimes. The nature of things Has given way to the technicality of things because of a perceived necessity by the justice system, and to a lesser extent society.

I could get into the philosophy of you choosing your actions when taking the first drink, but I suck at philosophy.

wwwhistler · 2017-07-21T00:22:28+00:00

i never could understand that idea....if she drinks a single drink she is incapable of giving consent or controlling her actions....but the man is assumed to remain sober and functioning and in full control of himself and the situation....no matter how much he has had to drink.

McFeely_Smackup · 2017-07-21T00:39:23+00:00

It's ironic, a 20 year old woman can go to a bar and use a fake ID to get drunk, then smash a glass in someone's face, get in her car and drive away hitting a pedestrian, go to her ex boyfriends house and break a window to get inside, then climb in bed with him and initiate sex...she has committed at least 5 felonies for which she is held 100% responsible, and was also raped for which she is a victim.

Flippent_Arrow · 2017-07-21T00:43:30+00:00

This kind of thing right here is why I don't drink, and I wont date someone who drinks. Don't need this kinda drama.

meenamjah · 2017-07-21T00:45:50+00:00

AMEN

MoonBlueMilkshake · 2017-07-21T02:23:07+00:00

Finally. I've always been sick of people throwing this around. You say "yes = yes, no = no", but if she's drunk and says yes, it's now "drunk yes = no". Yes means yes, no means no, whether she was druk or not, she says yes, she gave consent.

UDT22 · 2017-07-21T02:57:56+00:00

Morale of the story, is to stay far away from women that are drinking, period

guntermench43 · 2017-07-21T17:18:36+00:00

If we hold people accountable for deciding to drive drunk we should hold them accountable for deciding to fuck drunk.

Kai_ · 2017-07-20T09:43:27+00:00

ITT woefully and defiantly uninformed opinions about contract law.

Eumemicist · 2017-07-20T12:44:29+00:00

However, there still an obvious threshold of conscious awareness beyond which someone can't consent to sex. If someone doesn't have a firm grip on reality or is going in and out of sleep, initiating sex with her is arguably a sexual crime. A noble person will make sure the basic faculties are online before sex. And it is wise to err on the side of no sex with someone new who is drunk.

bufedad · 2017-07-20T13:42:02+00:00

Don't really understand people here talking about how being sober and having sex with a drunk individual isn't rape. You're taking advantage of someone in an altered state without their sober consent. People who get drunk consent to intoxication, not sex.

bleck05 · 2017-07-20T05:49:25+00:00

what the fuck is this bullshit? If someone is drunk then they are no longer able to make choices for themselves and therefore cannot make the choice to give consent. If both parties are drunk then I agree that it is not rape but if a sober individual has sex with someone who consented under the influence of alcohol then that is rape.

shadowguyver · 2017-07-20T05:53:21+00:00

If the woman is drunk and the man is not it is rape. Same if it is reversed. If both parties are drunk then no it's not rape because neither is in full cognitive functionality. Tipsy not rape, regret not rape, one passed out and the other still going forth with sex yes that is rape.

bufedad · 2017-07-20T11:24:45+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Angrygrape1337Reborn · 2017-07-21T04:14:09+00:00

ITT neckbeards who can't get laid.

SaturnisVictor · 2017-07-20T07:26:50+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Getoutabed · 2017-07-20T12:45:35+00:00

There is so much grey here that it's not such a good example of using "drunk sex" when alcohol is everything from an actual rape drug to just an excuse from a liar accuser.

2017-07-20T17:41:26+00:00

Posting this in response to the comparison to criminal actions:

Comparing criminal actions to a woman having sex with someone while intoxicated compares their actions to those of criminals. Additionally, nobody else can force you or manipulate you into robbing a store or shooting someone while the same can't be same for consent. Robbing a store while intoxicated is your decision alone; giving consent is something that can be easily manipulated by someone else, especially under the influence of alcohol, which is why it isn't a good example.

The issue lies with what consent is, because if we define it as something you can give while intoxicated, there would be a number of problems there with sober individuals. If we say that two drunk individuals can't be convicted of rape, then person A can have sex with person B against their will because they were both drunk. It's a complicated issue with a lot of gray area.

aczr · 2017-07-20T10:39:24+00:00

If you have a few and then someone steals your wallet out of your pocket does that make you partially responsible for the theft??? This statement captures no real circumstance and is merely generalized conjecture. A drinking woman should always be able to say no, a drunk person does not get a pass for any crime why should rape be an exception?

ThanklessAmputation · 2017-07-20T20:44:53+00:00

See here's the problem. The whole I got high and robbed a gas station thing is much more of a false equivalency. It's closer to I got drunk and lost my wallet. As a recovering alcoholic, let me tell you, sometimes you'll lose your wallet or your car keys or what have you, but if someone maxes out your credit cards, takes your car, or spends all your cash youre still going to be pissed. At a certain level of intoxication, it's not really fair to say someone can consent. Get her number and call her in the morning for a hung over breakfast or some shit. If you can't get ass when she's sober, you shouldn't use alcohol as a trick to get into her pants.

Flail_of_the_Lord · 2017-07-20T14:48:31+00:00

ITT: People who get drunk and can still function but never had something shoved inside them while they were unable to move.

DemiDualism · 2017-07-20T16:44:24+00:00

Stop comparing it to DUI. That doesn't make any sense and you are literally objectifying someone in order to do it.

If both parties are drunk I agree there needs to be no bias towards either gender.

However, if one party is sober - there is definitely some additional due diligence that needs to be done other than consent. That due diligence needs to satisfy reasonable responsibility to verify the consent.

Suicidal people consent to killing themselves, and that isn't considered valid consent. Likewise we all need to accept that some people are not capable of giving consent while drunk.

You have an option not to try and figure out who by not having sex with anyone who is drunk. If you are confident in your ability to defend yourself against accusations then go for it.

If the court system was reasonable then you should be able to demonstrate that you had no reason to believe the person was an irresponsible drunk.

Because if they actually are an irresponsible drunk and you have sex with them and that goes against anything their sober def would agree to then you are opening yourself up to the judgement of the courts and the public.

It will be hard for you to say it should be okay.. Because no one actually gives a shit about dumbasses who want to feign ignorance about the current state of alcohol and sexual aggression.

It's a political warzone and you are effectively complaining about not being able to walk through it as a bystander without getting shot. Even though you're fully aware of the dangers.

STOP HAVING SEX WITH DRUNK GIRLS.

Maybe when they realize they have to be sober all night in order to get laid, they'll start helping out to change the bias in the court system so we can all be happy.

Chxo · 2017-07-20T15:16:51+00:00

If she was really too drunk to remember it, yes it's fucking rape and you're a shitty person if you believe otherwise.

At the same time I used to get fucked up a lot, and spent plenty of nights worshipping at the porcelain throne because I binged too hard. I can count on one hand the number of times I got so piss drunk I lost time, or recollection of how I got somewhere, or what I did the night before. I'll pass out before I forget what I did, and wake up the next morning regretting plenty of things. I'd wager most of the time a woman says she can't remember she does. Of course that's not to say that being unable to remember should be the cut off for rape either.

There's a huge range between being drunk ( technically .08 by most legal standards) and being too drunk to consent or resist.

Title	This guy says it perfectly
Author	icorrectotherpeople
Upvotes	3844
Comments	422
Date	July 20, 2017 1:46 AM UTC (9 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/6od631/this_guy_says_it_perfectly/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/this-guy-says-it-perfectly.917614 https://theredarchive.com/post/917614

Comments

An intoxicated person is capable of giving consent, while an incapacitated person is not.