Men do not age like wine.

stacysmom40 · 2018-10-15T22:36:00+00:00

I met my husband when he was in his mid30s. I’ve seen pics of him in his earlier years and I would have been repulsed by him in his teens, and totally disinterested (though not revolted) in his 20s.

He’s honestly gotten hotter since we met, as I’ve encouraged him to grow and style his hair and beard the way I like.

So I will say that SOME men do age into being more attractive.

Does that mean my husband is now objectively hotter than a 25yo hard body Chad? No. However he is objectively more attractive than he was at 25.

daveofmars · 2018-10-15T23:06:54+00:00

I feel like every new post should have a bio of the OP so that we can discern some history and some context, because, in my experience, college chicks think they know damn near everything when, in reality, they have the least amount of experience of any adult human I've ever encountered.

This whole post simply doesn't match the experiences that many men have of themselves, and it certainly doesn't match the experience of many women I've met. Women, who here is into robbing the cradle? How many of you would want a guy younger than you? How many could even stand the maturity level of a guy just out of college?

Women want financial stability, decent physique, good conversation, and maturity. At best, a 20 year old guy has a good physique. End of story. What does he know about the world? What wealth did he earn?

I can personally attest that me at 31 versus me at 21 is a vast improvement of my younger self in all 4 of those capacities. OP, if your thesis is coming from your own point of view then you need to reevaluate these views after a few years.

wub1234 · 2018-10-15T23:15:27+00:00

You're not competing with a 'hot guy in his 20s'. You're competing with all guys in their 20s, many of which are not hot.

As someone who is older than the mid-30s that you've mentioned in the OP, the only obstacle I have found to dating younger women is that some of them won't consider it due to stigma. Whether or not you're hot enough barely comes into the equation, as long as you look after yourself.

In fact, I would say it's easier to date younger women, as they think they have plenty of time to date, so they have lower standards. Women who are older don't have time to waste, so they want someone who is absolutely right.

And then many young women who want to date seriously are sick of guys their own age, many of whom are hormonal idiots. Plus, as an older guy, not only are you more mature emotionally, but you can show her things, do things with her, and take her places that younger guys won't consider, or even practically be able to do.

This is one thing that RP has absolutely correct. If you look after yourself then your value as a man in the dating market will barely change between being 25 and 35, in fact it might even increase. There is a point when it will start to decline, but you only need to look at the extent to which women of all ages drool over numerous men who are into their fifties, and even beyond, to see that you can be attractive to a young woman when you're easily old enough to be her father.

sublimemongrel · 2018-10-15T22:26:02+00:00

Now that I’m older as a woman I can absolutely appreciate that men can get better looking from my perspective as a early 30s woman. If you would have asked me at 20 I’d probably not think so as often or if I knew they were that much older I wouldn’t care if they looked good because I wouldn’t have wanted to date them regardless.

But I will say, again from my perspective, there are plenty of dudes who actually do age really well to mid-30s or a little later. Relative to women of course, we still can look really good and much younger in our 30s but I won’t deny that age can have more of an effect on women versus men.

RuneSpellIncel · 2018-10-15T23:35:17+00:00

This thread again. The point is that in comparison to women men age like wine. You left out the milk part. Yeah, every 30 year old dude would take a dip in the fountain of youth if he could, but we are comparing men to women with that saying.

Here4thebeer3232 · 2018-10-15T22:17:58+00:00

It's a cope for the young red pillers as well. Gives them hope that the future will be better. And that their current lack of success is not their fault. If a man takes care of himself he can definitely still look good into his 30s. But then again, so can women. Their concept of The Wall is a hope for revenge against those that they feel have wronged them.

LUClEN · 2018-10-15T23:41:42+00:00

Didn't we just have a thread discussing Steve Carell's sudden sex appeal which directly conflicts with the ideas posed here?

As someone who spent most their youth ugly af, I can't shake the idea that a lot of folks do come to be more good looking later in life

andrew_rdt · 2018-10-15T23:36:23+00:00

Maybe on average your claim is true but the simple fact is many people get worse with age. So if you are 1) Average to begin with and 2) Improve yourself from 20s to 30s you get the double benefit of increasing your age independent SMV as well as your age dependent SMV. Basically the average guy (not top level Chad type guy) has more room for improvement while their competition gets worse as the years go on. Also it is dumb to consider 18-23 year olds at a certain point, just because you can't get them doesn't mean you lose the game.

CatchPhraze · 2018-10-16T03:11:27+00:00

Nope. Young men are like kids to me. Yuck.

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2018-10-16T03:42:38+00:00

That's why trp mandates lifting. So that you will stay attractive in your 30s. Most guys I know in their 30s are fat, lazy, and complacent from being in a relationship. Being fit and financially secure puts you way ahead of any 20 and 30 year old.

weag5l · 2018-10-16T08:24:27+00:00

I know many of you prefer drama, but here is some actual data out of the Netherlands. For 20 year old women, the lower and upper limits seem to be 20 and 34. For 30 year old women, the lower and upper limits seem to be 25 and 38.

This data is from 2001. Not sure if trends have changed towards older men now or not.
https://www.ehbonline.org/article/S1090-5138(01)00065-4/pdf

EDIT If you do not have access then scihub is your friend

blackedoutfast · 2018-10-15T23:25:06+00:00

deleted ^{^{^What}} ^{^{^is}} ^{^{^this?}}

Truedemocracy4 · 2018-10-15T23:04:52+00:00

Lmao nah seen it first hand

Men hold more power than their same age equivalent in the late 20s into 30s. Women hold much more power in their late teens to early 20s

kandyapplez · 2018-10-16T06:03:04+00:00

old men are gross

but realize that when these guys talk about how in their 30s they have free reign with women and are always banging "20 year olds", the young hot chicks they're referring to might look something like this....and to a 30/40something year old guy who previously had no success with women, "scoring" this sort of "young babe" might genuinely feel like they have aged into hotness

the-4th-survivor · 2018-10-16T00:44:33+00:00

The thing is the average guy of any age won't be hooking up with young hot chicks. One of the main points of the red pill is accepting that being average isn't good enough anymore and to strive to be better than that by lifting weights, eating right, making sure your money situation is solid, and so on. With that said, it might be an exaggeration to say men age like wine but we definitely age better than women in terms of attractiveness. All these recent stories about female teachers fucking their students notwithstanding, teenage boys are usually not considered sexy. Men have to grow into their good looks while women don't. Another thing about aging that works in our favor is we grow more intelligent and wise as we get older, more experienced, wealthier and more powerful which are all traits women are attracted to.

7186997326 · 2018-10-16T01:40:28+00:00

Height. Very important to women as far as factors that make a man attractive. And the thing about height is that unlike your other physical attributes, you don't lose it as you get older. So now you are in your 30's you're over 6 feet tall, if you eat right and exercise you're still at a good body fat %; but you also own that pad downtown that you don't share with room mates and you have all these stories about those sick vacations you took in remote parts of the world most people only see in the movies. And hell, if you want to go under the knife you can even have your face/skin game on point. LTR value with younger women isn't good for obvious reasons but for casual relationships.....you probably do have more value.

speed3_freak · 2018-10-16T02:15:10+00:00

Of course my retort is full of empirical evidence, but men definitely age better than women. Sure there are plenty of sexually desirable women in their 30s, but there are nearly no single attractive women. Either they are married or in long term relationships. The ones in their 30's who have neither, yet are still attractive, have serious baggage. A lot of men in their 30's just haven't settled yet. A lot of them also have baggage, but women don't seem to mind nearly as much as guys do.

Also, I am in my mid 30's, look much better now than I ever did in my 20's, and wouldn't be caught dead going after a woman in her early 20's. I shoot for the late 20's single ladies because they know how to have a conversation without staring at their phone the whole time, still look good, and a lot of them have been able to survive/thrive in the adult world without having to have someone pay and look out for them. As a mid 30's man, I view anyone under 25 like a child. I'm not saying they are necessarily, but our interests and goals are completely different. Sure I would love to fuck that hot 22 year old, but I would want to put duct tape over her mouth as soon as she says something. Real men in their 30's are looking for more than just a hole to stick their dick in.

matrixpush · 2018-10-16T07:04:27+00:00

Correct, but RP generally can't see the forest for the trees.

Most men generally don't add 5-10% income increase per year as they get older, as RP claims.

squidracer · 2018-10-15T22:59:48+00:00

but the average man

Who's talking about average here? Trp claims if you take care of yourself and put forth effort in life.

Of course the average man in his thirties is shit. That's why it's so incredibly easy to get laid if you maintain your appearance. It's like shooting fish in a barrel at this point. Sure some are older, some are younger, but most see pretty cute and athletic

DumbledoresFerrari · 2018-10-16T00:16:56+00:00

http://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/chart_men.jpg

xKalisto · 2018-10-16T03:10:47+00:00

In my experience guys I know did get hotter close to 30. Mainly because as they enter the work environment (people here finish Masters at Uni around 25ish) they will eventuality start getting more interested in grooming and will actually have money to look good.

Most the guys I know looked like messy potato in their 20s, few years ago they all started to get in shape, lose weight, visit barber shops, buy nicer suits AND accessories etc. They indeed look very fine.

95% of those are IT so the sample is bit limited tho :D

LewisCross · 2018-10-16T13:11:11+00:00

No.

Men who most women can get for relationships do not age like wine. Or, perhaps more directly, you aren't aging like wine.

If a man didn't take care of himself when he was younger, he will not age like wine. Conversely, if he did take care of himself and kept in shape, he will retain a lot of sexual attractiveness into middle age.

Most men do better with women, sexually and otherwise, in their 30s than they do in their late teens and 20s.

MeursaultLives77 · 2018-10-15T22:31:43+00:00

This is a dumb argument because of one really interesting reason: SMV is not a fixed currency in terms of youth. As people get older, their ability to determine what is attractive changes on a relative basis. Thus, SMV isn't lowered. Rather, the metrics that determine SMV change, and some people can't adapt. Suggesting otherwise is to suggest that everyone is doomed to pursue younger and younger people as they get older, which is total bullshit.

I'm almost 30, and I'm telling you this right now - college girls look like children to me now. People entering college now were in 3rd or 4th Grade when I was a freshman. If you're my age, and this thought doesn't give you some kind of perspective, then I personally think you are lost, fucked, and quite possibly despicable. My range as far as what I can accept in terms of age has expanded drastically in the past couple years - I wouldn't mind if I got into a relationship with someone who was closer to their 40s now.

This is normal and nothing to be afraid of, I don't see why RPers or BPers get so bent out of shape over this sort of thing...

darudeboysandstorm · 2018-10-15T22:32:08+00:00

1) hooking up with younger yet average/substandard girls (slightly above average, at best)

This is all they really wanted.

2) delusional and only fucking these imaginary girls in their head as they proudly write a comment/post about their recent hookup with a 19 year old plate.

Wouldn't argue this

If a guy is still very good looking and successful in his mid 30s, like Andrew Tate, then of course his age won't matter as much when it comes to hooking up with college aged girls. But the average men, including the vast majority of redpillers, won't look hot enough, successful enough to spin 18-23 yo plates by the time they're mid 30s.

Ok this is true.

Your 20's catch you off gaurd, all the terp gang is saying is hey maybe now that you see your laziness has consequences dont be a bum if you want that nectar sonny.

metrosexual80sfan · 2018-10-16T01:24:52+00:00

Agreed. There's a reason boybands and fresh faced teen idol guys have always been and always will be considered sexy. Late 90s Leo DiCaprio or 1D in 2012 etc. It's not just college age young women either, what about the Twilight moms?

I'm 33 and looked young for a hella long time (up til 27-28 people thought I was 19 or something) but in the last few years I've noticed even with a rigorous skincare routine and avoiding the sun as much as I can, I'm undeniably still hitting the wall. Perhaps a bit slower but I'm absolutely past my prime. It hurts but it is what it is, no point in denying reality, so should other guys.

I've made the point many times, that I don't get as much random flirting and female attention than I got 10 years ago. That's the truth talking.

Snowiceolated · 2018-10-16T05:16:33+00:00

Lemme tell you the real red pill, the real truth: No guy in his mid 30s with any amount of money or life experience is more sexually attractive than a hot guy in his 20s.

How many times does this need to be explained: the mid 30s guy is generally more attractive than himself at age 20. That hot guy in his 20s you mentioned? Also generally more attractive at 30 when he's more mature, stable, and has another decade of life experience.

No one is saying some ugly middle aged dude will start magically dating models once he reaches 35. But guess what? He probably has a better shot at 35 than he did at 20.

rhyth7 · 2018-10-16T08:26:59+00:00

Most men are very homely and chubby, at age thirty they are more likely to be chubbier and have less hair too. Only dudes who have not drank their youth away and who still gym look good at thirty.

Yorkshiretea83 · 2018-10-15T22:29:43+00:00

Honestly I think you're probably right in a way. From my view, purely from opportunities a younger guy stands a much better chance. Someone in my age bracket just won't meet that many 18-22 year olds. That's not saying it can't be done, but it's unlikely.

Once you get to your 30s, you're just not going to be hanging out in those circles and you look dumb if you do. The thought of going to a club where young 20s girls hang out makes me feel a little naseous and it's tiring to even think of that.

Most people hook up with people the same age more or less because that is who you socialise with.

Men stand to improve their SMV and RMV with age because most men in their early 20s are puppies. They do lack money and experience. These things count for men. Anyone, man or woman, under 25 is still a kid in my eyes and I wouldn't hang out with them man or woman. But women don't need to become established to be bangable like many men do.

Realistically, a man can stay single and do the business up until a reasonably older age. There's no need to think you're past it cos you've hit mid-30s.

Here's something for you to ponder:

www.askmen.com/news/dating/study-women-find-men-most-attractive-at-50-men-like-women-at-18.html%3famp

According to science journal Science Advances, based on online dating profiles women peak at 18 but men peak at 50. PDF in article.

Edit: I'll put the PDF here in case anyone is interested - http://advances.sciencemag.org/content/advances/4/8/eaap9815.full.pdf

AutoModerator · 2018-10-15T22:11:27+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

WhatIsTheMeaningHere · 2018-10-15T23:05:38+00:00

Is this Andrew Tate guy really good looking at all? Women plz confirm my hunch that he is not.

santlaurentdon · 2018-10-16T05:20:47+00:00

I think it depends. If in your 30s you are wealthy, accomplished in your career, have a lot of experiences, are fairly fit, have good style, and are confident you can be attractive to girls in their 20s.

An example of the top of my head would be Scott Disick. the guy has zero real talent but is still pulling bare models in their 20s and smashing. Quite frankly ridiculous imo.

statsfodder · 2018-10-16T07:49:28+00:00

I'm 40 and I pick up or get hit up by 18 to 25s every other weekend, I am bald, overweight and don't make a 6 digit income. I also think trp are douchebags and bloops are spineless effeminate morons. I'd hit up andrew tate's date right in front of him...

UnremarkableHuman · 2018-10-16T07:51:18+00:00

Is it possible that, just in general, healthy people age better, but all aging kinda stinks.

It does seem that men and women "peak" at different times and men's tend to be higher but I don't that this is indicative of a larger trend later.

InformalCriticism · 2018-10-16T10:08:45+00:00

Classic opinion based writing with no substance.

Your first "point" is that TRPs have wishful thinking. And instead of providing dacts about how is wishful thinking, you state the reasons why TRP rationally states the reality.

Second point, it's a coping mechanism. How do we know this? Well, we dont, because you don't believe in fact based argument.

Second "1)" This almost doesn't even register as an opinion, because you tried so hard to make it sound like a fact.

Second "2)" This is more baseless bile that has even less to do with your post title than your other shallow opinions.

This could pass as a shit post, but the tell is the format. This is just the best you could do.

It's pretty easy to see in the world around us that men in their 30s are peaking. They are still professionally young, so they still have great potential. They have enough work experience to be financially stable. And even professional athletes are considered in their prime in their mid 30s. The younger athletes just lack all that is necessary to harness their potential - something that comes with time. You know, like wine.

TheStoicCrane · 2018-10-16T13:13:38+00:00

Nonsense. Most 20 year olds nowadays lack a sense of direction and discipline. The 20yr old guys who possess both qualities lift young so 1.) They can maintain their strength, looks, and virility & 2.) They're disciplined enough to establish a career path to extend their longevity and become self sufficient by the time they hit their mid 30s.

A college aged 20 year old "might" have looks at best but can't compare to a all around well developed 35+ year old. It's like comparing a 20yr old with a 5yr old in terms of development.

theiamsamurai · 2018-10-16T14:43:39+00:00

Lol, guys in their 20s are more attractive to girls under 18, but I don't think that's most TERPers' target demographic XD. Most girls' tastes mature, some don't, doesn't take a genius to figure it out. Women always prefer dating guys older than them, until they get super old, the question is how much older, and that varies from woman to woman.

passepar2t · 2018-10-16T15:53:43+00:00

Late 20s are where it's at.

hodltaco · 2018-10-17T21:26:13+00:00

Totally agree. As a man in my 50’s I don’t feel like fine wine. The women that make themselves available to date are all head cases and very rare is there someone I can consider long term. Sure they’re half my age and very exciting to look at but it’s getting old. Women my age claim they don’t want to play nurse as I age.

ratsparadedarapstar · 2018-10-18T23:17:49+00:00

Can’t say I agree with this, but I can’t speak for anyone but myself. My attraction to men seems to age right along with me. They’re all somewhere around 3yrs younger or 3yrs older, and anything within that bracket. Even actors I see in older movies (20 somethings at the time when I was also that age when first viewing) just look like babies to me, now. The appeal just diminished. They’re still attractive by general standards, but they don’t rev my engine, anymore.

DitaVonCleese · 2018-10-21T12:32:15+00:00

is this "college girls and their dating habits" an american thing? because i hear things that are reiterated in this discussion all the time, and it's absolutely the opposite of my experience.

when i was in university (up until a year ago), if an uni guy was dating a highschooler, he was frowned upon by his peers because it loos like he is unable to get a gf among his peers so he has to prey on more naive girls. Same if a uni girl got a 30+ bf - we looked at her as a "someone who will regret it" and at him as a predator. (both examples also worked for reversed genders, but this was much more ocmmon) There probably were "success stories" where the relationships were genuine but common opinion was that dating someone with either considerably less or more life experience made you either a prey or a predator.

And as for what me and my friends wanted as "college girls" was guy our age, in perspective field (not necessarily stem) who preferrably has a job in his field already (that's common where i live, i've done it too)

edit: and im from a redpill's promised land - an eastern european country. i can tell you that whatever ideas they have about such countries are far away from truth :D

lucky_beast · 2018-10-15T22:20:04+00:00

That dude is trp field report levels of cringe jeez louise.

I'm sure the incel few millimeters of bone crew will have something to say about that jawline.

That said men age like wine in the sense they have a greater chance of improving themselves as they age than women do. Wine doesn't age well just left on its own, it's a process to improve. Same with men. A lot of it just turns bad.

hammerhaunts · 2018-10-15T22:50:40+00:00

You're misunderstanding the phrase yet again

theambivalentrooster · 2018-10-15T22:22:21+00:00

A mans RMV probably peaks in his 30s and he can spin desperate 26Yo+ plates with promises of commitment.

SeemedGood · 2018-10-16T05:18:35+00:00

No man in his right mind over 25 would be able to put up with an 18-22 year old woman for more than 2 minutes, and definitely not a man who had accomplished anything in life. The depth of vapid in that age group these days is unbearable, and certainly not compensated for by bodies that look like those of young boys.

The game changes, however, when you notch that age range up 5 or 6 years.

Where I happen to live, the 23 - 28 year olds pay absolutely no attention to men under 25 except as orbiters, fish hard for “promising” guys in the 25 - 35 age range (but play virginal with them), and end up going home at the end of nights out with the “hot” players aged 35 - 50 for evenings of no-holes barred that won’t be discussed at all by anyone the next day while they fish for husband material in the 25-35 range at work.

Not sure that many of us old dudes want to spin 18-22 year old plates, when the multitude of 23 - 28 year old plates are so much more tolerable, fun, quiet about it, and more likely to be drama free. That’s probably why you don’t see it much.

beachredwhine · 2018-10-15T22:52:44+00:00

Desperate wish fulfillment this time not from aging women but from younger men trying to cope with the fact that women do indeed find older men attractive enough for sex and for relationships as they have for all of history.

VoidInvincible · 2018-10-16T01:02:05+00:00

This is just negative garbage. Thank God I will be hot in my 30's. I posted a pic of myself on here before using an alt account and people assured me I am one of the guys who will be attractive in his 30's because of how I look now.

KV-n · 2018-10-16T10:21:57+00:00

No guy in his mid 30s with any amount of money or life experience is more sexually attractive than a hot guy in his 20s.

No but the same guy at 30 is more attractive than the same guy at 20.

That being said, fucking college chicks in your 30s when you couldnt in your 20s is still gigacope.

Title	Men do not age like wine.
Author	TooToughToQuit
Upvotes	27
Comments	498
Date	October 15, 2018 10:11 PM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/9ohf1x/men_do_not_age_like_wine/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-do-not-age-like-wine.259437 https://theredarchive.com/post/259437

Comments