Self improvement is pointless/a scam for men

Sultmaker_9000 · 2021-08-30T13:34:38+00:00

You only date beta men, so obviously this must be a realm outside that you never had a chance with. Getting more sex with more women is a bi product of what you were doing focusing on your purpose. Its just obvious that Hollywood stars have a conveyor belt of women throwing themselves at them, and by logical deviation you are the best within your own habitat, and you are therefore relatively as successful. Over time PUA has evolved where more men coach what is 'inner game' which is about self purpose now.

Chad_McChadface · 2021-08-30T23:39:30+00:00

Anyone dumb enough to believe any of this, absolutely deserve to self select themself out of the gene pool.

bilged · 2021-08-30T13:55:38+00:00

Back when I was young self improvement did not exist as a popular concept.

This isn't true for any where or any time in human history. Physical fitness and success have always been the keys to getting women.

People either got a partner or not.

What do you think separated the haves from the have-nots? Hint - its the same things that separate them today.

The reality is that women are generally not going to deal with men unless they get compensation somehow, or they have to. Guys are much better off underachieving until women are forced to settle, and then they'll be in the power position anyway.

This contradicts itself. If women will settle in exchange for "compensation", how does the underachiever provide this?

Compare a 30 year old man vs a 30 year old woman. The woman has to settle (or stay in a relationship) no matter how "improved" or not-improved the guy is.

And how did he get her in the first place?

FizzleMateriel · 2021-08-30T14:56:29+00:00

I started trying to lift and doing exercises this year and ironically my dating prospects improved after I stopped doing it.

I’m already pretty trim though. I basically have a flat stomach already. I’d have to be shirtless or wearing a wife-beater for anybody to see any difference from lifting.

Perseus_the_Bold · 2021-08-30T16:10:38+00:00

A guy trying to self improve to get sex or a gf would have been strange and a bit crazy."

And that right there is your problem: It is not self-improvement if you are doing it for someone else. Self improvement - which should be called Self Actualization - is intended for one's own benefit. If you are only doing it like a drone just to impress or get the esteem of someone else who isn't you then you are not self improving at all, you are clowning, putting on makeup and a show for the benefit of someone else.

If self improvement was legit guys would be told exactly what they had to do to qualify for sex/a gf.

That is not what self improvement is intended for. Just ask MGTOW.

Every time you do anything for someone else with the intention of receiving remunerations (payment) either in cash, favors, esteem or in this case getting a date, you are not actually self improving. You are acting like that other person's employee! If you are doing anything for her in the hopes of getting a little bit of her time in return then she is your boss, not your date. Get into this mindset. Therefore don't be surprised if women feel like either not hiring you or firing you on the spot if you're not performing to their standard as with any faceless corporation. Get it out of your head that self improvement somehow means you're improving for someone else. It is called SELF-improvement, not SHE-improves me.

The only thing self-improvement does is to waste men's time

You are wasting your time because you are doing it for someone else and not for yourself as the concept is meant to be applied. Every time you go on these self improving quests in order to impress a girl you are actually creating an inflated false self.

Self Actualization, on the other hand, is supposed to be the cure to self-falsehood in that you should rather focus on your true self and work towards improving your authentic self for your own benefit, and not for something as clownish as impressing girls.

But also I should warn you: The reason I differentiate Self Actualization from Self Improvement is because there is a world of toxic self improvement out there that has been created by bullshit artists looking to make a buck and PUAs. It sounds like you fell for the tricks of the latter. Follow what is necessary for self actualization because here is the danger when following self help bullshit.

How's that for changing your view?

Im_The_Daiquiri_Man · 2021-08-31T01:32:03+00:00

I swear gimpgirl is great if only because every time I read a post by her it goes like this.

oh this is an interesting subject, I wonder what the take is gonna be
oh ok. Pure redpill. damn this guy’s brutal.
some plot twist reference to “my man” or “when I fuck guys”
oh this must be gimpgirl
scrolls up. Yep.

Novadina · 2021-08-30T16:26:15+00:00

So previously your advice to women was to not get a job or career because no woman actually wants that and no man wants a woman who works, so they should just have their husband work. As evidence, you pointed to yourself, and claimed you retired after college and how great your life is because of that.

Now your advice to men is to be lazy and not work and make their wife, who they will be able to get because she is desperate and settles, fully support them. As evidence, you point to your man - who you claim is top tier despite not even knowing how to have a job just because you give him money.

Who exactly is supposed to be making the money for the family??

Creation_Soul · 2021-08-30T13:50:46+00:00

it depends on how "serious" your problem is and what your end objective is.

For me, self-improvement actually worked because my main issue was that I was socially awkward. Basically I was a socially awkward extrovert, meaning I had no issues talking to anyone, but would say some dumb shit a lot of the time. That "version" of me had 0 romantic/sexual success.

So, for me the self improvement was to learn social cues, realise when I was about to say dumb shot and stop myself from doing it. This effort took about 12-18 months (when I was 20-21), but did manage to get better at it. results? in the span of 6 months I had managed a ONS, a short term relationship and then met the woman who is now my wife.

Could I have become some giga-chad with more self-improvement? no chance, but that was not my objective at all.

So my problem was somewhat "serious" (saying dumb shit) and my end objective was to get some romantic/sexual success and then move on from there (a somewhat realistic goal).

BandaNaVizier · 2021-08-30T13:57:43+00:00

I see your advocating for MGTOW lol. But seriously I agree, for some men it's just better to accept that you're going to be alone your whole life. Self improvement seems more like a scam to take more money away from ugly guys, kind of like an "ugly tax".

Slipthe · 2021-08-30T13:08:22+00:00

Back when I was young self improvement did not exist as a popular concept. People either got a partner or not.

It existed, but people just improved as they got older. It's even a movie trope where someone is fat and then in the future they become thin and more attractive.

I would say that the population today benefits from losing weight.

goneaway2thewind · 2021-08-30T18:11:27+00:00

For men, the reason why they build value and date down is to feel secure establishing a relationship. If they are a POS, sure they might get lucky sometimes but what they want is a GF.

The only way for them to get a GF is if they build so much value that they have the power to make a girl's life better than it is without him. So they need to be prince charming to maintain stability. And they are willing to do that because they care way too much about women.

What you say makes sense in a small country or low population area, but here in the states everyone is very close together. You have low income areas practically across the street from million dollar homes. So if the guys waste away the women would be easily picked up by their higher value competition.

It would be like telling women they don't have to wear makeup anymore, even if they did that, one woman would start wearing it again and respark their greater feminine competition. It just doesn't work because as humans we are built for selfish motivations driven through competition.

Orange_Paisley · 2021-08-31T01:48:58+00:00

I would not date a man who never worked a day in his life. I value my work and I value my money. I can’t imagine being with someone that cavalier about his future. I supported my partner before so I get that, but it was more because he was sick and not because he was a barnacle.

bearsfan231 · 2021-09-01T15:39:59+00:00

Ngl I started lifting for women. Then I realized it doesn't work 1.5 years in, but I love working out thats why I continue to do it.

Ok_Room1213 · 2021-08-30T13:11:35+00:00

Ya so what you're describing is the "lay down and rot" approach to life.

I don't understand the omega males in reddit who are content with a life of jacking off to anime, and being an overall waste of life. Teenagers get a bit of leeway in that regard cause they don't have the age, experience, or money to be independent. But grown men who think going to the gym or dressing well is for losers? You sound like the one man who the "take a shower" advice is actually relevant for.

tapintothefrequency · 2021-08-30T13:17:10+00:00

a lot of men may initially start self improvement to improve his chances with women, but once the ball is rolling he sees the benefits it brings him and ultimately does it for himself.

wtknight · 2021-08-30T13:13:26+00:00

Guys are much better off underachieving until women are forced to settle, and then they'll be in the power position anyway.

Self-improvement allows a man to advance his place over other men and therefore attract a more attractive woman, even if one buys the idea that women will eventually be forced to settle for men if men do nothing to improve. Hence, self-improvement does have value to men because not all men will do the work to improve.

asshole67throw · 2021-08-30T13:23:57+00:00

The reward of self improvement is not only to increase sexual market value though.

It’s much more to do with developing routine and mental stability to improve your overall life.

Many people find that their lives are empty post break up. Self care is there to attempt to heal from that emptiness.

Unfortunately people are also finding that the emptiness on both sides cannot be fullfilled by a relationship either. This is why you see “simps getting dumped” because neither partner really understands what they want out of a relationship.

wekacuck · 2021-08-30T14:16:28+00:00

I get that "self-improvement" done for the sake of others is a fool's errand. In fact I would argue that's shouldn't really qualify as self-improvement and people doing things to please others or out of a herd mentality are approaching it with the wrong mindset.

I do think it can be a self-aware activity of assessing your flaws and addressing them. Anyone who has examined and addressed their own flaws (however that works out) gains resilience and wisdom.

Guys are much better off underachieving until women are forced to settle, and then they'll be in the power position anyway

From a purely positional analysis at that point, you're even better off having achieved but ignored or not spent significant effort on women. It's like saying a wilted plant is better than a watered plant. It should be obvious that's incorrect.

Case study: my man is 40 years old and has never worked a day in his life. Still a 30 year old career woman would be lucky to get a date with him because she has to settle and he doesn't. No self-improvement needed!

If he's happy, great. A lot of men enjoy a sense of accomplishment though. Also don't really follow the bolded reasoning.

Teflon08191 · 2021-08-30T15:29:36+00:00

Self-improvement for women is pointless/a scam for men. Self-improvement for its own sake is not.

Snoo38543 · 2021-08-30T17:47:16+00:00

The only self-improvement you should be doing is for your own benefit. Get money, accomplish your goals, and do what you want with your life. Giving any amount of consideration to what other people want is a recipe for unhappiness.

Pastelitomaracucho · 2021-08-30T18:51:39+00:00

When you are an obese NEET living in your mom's basement waiting to die of a preventable disease before 50 without a way out of depression.... yeah... self improvement might help

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-08-30T22:49:58+00:00

You don't self-improve for pussy, you self-improve for you.

chesty666 · 2021-08-30T13:56:27+00:00

Crabs in a bucket mentality right here.

Why should I improve myself? Just lazy and loser thinking.

You should improve yourself because you can be better then yesterday.

Self improvement and reflection is good for anyone willing to do it honestly and earnestly.

daddysgotanew · 2021-08-30T14:42:29+00:00

Yep. You are either born with it or you aren’t. There is no “try” with Chad

kristynaZ · 2021-08-30T13:38:44+00:00

Lol, nobody needs to settle for useless losers who can't even be bothered to get a job. It's better to be single than dating a guy like that.

Money-Agent-1777 · 2022-01-23T23:39:12+00:00

Self improvement is not just about getting girls - finding ways to make more money, be more happy, live a longer, healthier life are all pretty nice

NarniaFox · 2021-08-30T13:22:33+00:00

No one has to settle as being single is always an option. Most women would prefer to be single over settling for a guy with an attitude "well, she has to settle eventually, so I'll just sit on my ass and wait".

Moreover, self-improvement isn't built just around dating. Lots of people do it for themselves. Some want to achieve better career opportunities, some do medication and sport for their own sanity, others genuinely enjoy learning etc.

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-08-30T13:51:55+00:00

Lost 30-40 lbs.

Gained 15 lbs muscle.

Got clothes to fit new build well.

My next FWB was a college educated playboy model (no I'm not telling). Very sweet girl.

You want quality women, you gotta be quality. Like fucks like.

WestsideMoonWalker · 2021-08-30T14:50:03+00:00

Dear lord, this is painfully dumb. The whole point of self-improvement in a general sense is to do things to make you feel better about your life and/or improve your life. If you're doing it for the end result, you're doing it wrong.

Even in terms of career progression, learning new skills allowed my partner and I to both greater than double our salaries in the last 3 years. My whole-ass social circle is overachievers and it clearly has not hindered either the men or women of that group much.

And lol, a 40 year old who has accomplished jack-shit in life is not a catch. Sounds exactly like one of my older cousins, and he is basically a bum, as much as I care about the guy.

HATE_SOYCIETY · 2021-08-30T15:04:23+00:00

Self-improvement only works if you have the prerequisite genetic traits to benefit from it. A 6'3 fatass getting in shape has a lot of benefit to gain. A 5'6 guy getting jacked will gain virtually nothing; his SMV will go from 4/10 to 4.2/10.

Novadina · 2021-08-30T16:10:24+00:00

Case study: my man is 40 years old and has never worked a day in his life. Still a 30 year old career woman would be lucky to get a date with him because she has to settle and he doesn’t. No self-improvement needed!

Huh? I’m not following… Why would a 30 yr old career woman want a 40 yr old who can’t even take care of himself? Hell, I’m an almost 40 yr old “career woman”, and I still get asked out by hot men around my own age at work - so they make $200k+. When I was 30 it was happening even more often, no way would I have even gone on a date with your man when I was 30, much less settled for someone like that.

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DisturbedBurger · 2021-08-30T14:12:16+00:00

The only self improvement that works is separation and individuation from their narcissistic fathers.

SaBahRub · 2021-08-30T16:12:01+00:00

Sure men got told to improve.

It’s called “get a job”

DplusLplusKplusM · 2021-08-30T19:11:56+00:00

Back in 1939 a book called "How to Win Friends and Influence People" was a hot seller and ads for male grooming products guaranteed to make you more attractive to the fairer sex were in every Victorian era newspaper. Self improvement isn't a new concept but the internet has given people an echo chamber in which to discuss such things. The problem with your theory of forcing women to accept underachieving men is that contemporary women don't have to get married to have a roof over their heads. They can now provide that for themselves and in many cases would rather be single than to settle for a dud.

skyrains · 2021-08-30T19:26:14+00:00

Ewww.

EfficientComputer5 · 2021-08-30T21:17:23+00:00

I think that a portion of the origin of this type of social phenomenon has to do with a general growing awareness of societal rot and an attempt to address it. It should be, although it's regrettably not, common knowledge that many kids are grown up in bad homes, bad schools and bad communities. They grow up kind of dysfunctional or generally without the privelege of a role model informing them how to actually function. They have to learn life from the crate with no training wheels and entirely on their own. As societies media grows and people's attitudes have evolved I think we've come to notice more of these issues and are generally perturbed as to what they are and how to handle them. Whereas in the past these people would have grown up in the world totally invisible, not unless murdering and robbing which is only a 5 minutes of fame/acknowledgement. I'd imagine these sentiments are basically elementary stages of a type of social evolution away from that world and still in its larval state.

Whereas men and women properly socialised and raised successfully I find don't share the same issues as regular people, aside from facing attacks of jealousy because of it. Average men there are good communicators, funny, have enriched personalities all of which compensates greatly against any other minor flaw. Women I'd assume are relatively the same except the feminine differences of antisocial narcissistic tendencies such as unbelievable levels of megalomania and entitlement.

So the pull yourself up by the bootstraps irony is almost like a beginning step towards countering the issue or atleast acknowledging it. It's primarily catering to those of particular elements and the proponents being of that same class meaning the avatars of the rhetoric will also kinda suck. Afterall pulling yourself up by the bootstraps is still better than being face down in the dirt.

There's stuff like power dynamics involving wealth and such but I believe these arbitrary things diminish when humanities are restored. People who value life put less significance into material prospect.

Aside from that it's not a scam. A scam would require nefarious elements sabotaging and manipulating people for resourve. You would better identify it as a sham. The implications is that it's generally impotent and of no real value. Although social hierarchies always evolve into ponzi/pyramid schemes. Feminism is a better example of a scam, where that's a million dollar industry and you can get rich by pure demagoguery. This male styled feminism might evolve into that but it's not paid for and sponsored by globalist and entire countries.

Aviadcool111 · 2021-08-30T23:12:30+00:00

Okay so do guys actually lift for women I thought that was a joke?

Nihi1986 · 2021-08-30T23:35:57+00:00

Doesn't matter what it is. With self improvement you'll feel overall better and at least feel like you are doing something right even if you life doesn't seem to make sense.

JumboJetz · 2021-08-31T00:59:31+00:00

“Self improvement” is a broad category but it is 90% bullshit stuff. My advice for men? Please for the love of good stay away from that “PUA” shit. Will ROT your brain. If you watch it, watch it to laugh at how stupid it is.

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2021-08-31T08:17:37+00:00

Fuckkk no its not. Pre self improvement vs post? Total different world of girls who will talk to me

gimpgirl555 · 2021-08-31T10:19:58+00:00

Well, working out gives results. Making more money also gives results.

Gilmoregirlin · 2021-08-31T10:42:09+00:00

Self improvement is a thing a thing you do for yourself not to get a partner hence the word self in it. If it has the effect of also getting a partner great but it should not be the goal. There is no formula to attracting women, everyone is different. Just being the best version of yourself is all you can do. If a man is okay with a woman who is willing to “settle for him” because she has no other choice, so be it. I am also a career woman and I would never settle for such a man as the one you describe or anything less than what made me happy, such a woman would seem to have low self esteem. In any case what guy wants to be settled for?

flapperfemmefatale · 2021-08-31T15:56:41+00:00

Case study: my man is 40 years old and has never worked a day in his life. Still a 30 year old career woman would be lucky to get a date with him

As a 35-year-old career woman, I think you're delusional. If you want a dependent so badly, at least pop out a kid for tax breaks.

Sonny74 · 2021-08-31T22:13:49+00:00

Ok, Gimp, let me hit you with my take on self-improvement if you don't mind. The physical act of self-improvement is not the goal. Lifting weights, learning instruments, dressing better, do not in themselves get you a SO. The hopeful benefit of these activities is that you grow as a person. A woman does not care that you are muscular, she equates muscular with willpower. The muscles say you have the willpower to eat healthily and stay on a workout regimen. A woman can be impressed you can play an instrament, but what this skill shows is you have dedication to your art. That you have spent hours to hone your craft. The self improvement makes you a better person for yourself. The rest just falls into place.

Adaptoh · 2021-08-31T22:22:56+00:00

Self improvement isn't just for women, no one goes to the gym and thinks I'm doing this for women, you're doing it for yourself.

While doing so, you will have more opportunities. I'm sorry but someone who is 300lbs, lazy as shite, poor hygiene, etc will never has as much options as a productive 185lb ripped man.

Your woman will respect you more, if someone "settles down" with you they will like you more because of your discipline and attitude compared to the disgust they would feel with a 300lb dude.

4everrekt · 2021-09-01T13:02:38+00:00

If a guy had said this, I’d call him a loser, what a pathetic mindset. If you want to implement the life that you designed for yourself, you must better yourself.

Guys who “self improve” solely to get puss lack principle, are unworthy of respect/admiration, and that’s a big reason why women don’t like them in the first place.

kinkornkarn99 · 2021-09-01T20:48:44+00:00

In what world does the 30 year old career woman have to settle, especially with a low value man? She can leave. She has until her late 30s to make babies.

Men can learn how to be attractive and hard to attract the opposite sex. Our parents don’t each of us. Hollywood gives us a false version of how this works. Are used to be an borderline incel, I had to learn a lot about myself and women to start attracting women again. There are tons of guides and coaches that will tel you exactly what you need to do. It’s a holistic transformation. And then you have to practice it.

Title	Self improvement is pointless/a scam for men
Author	gimpgirl555
Upvotes	10
Comments	444
Date	August 30, 2021 1:02 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/pehnb4/self_improvement_is_pointlessa_scam_for_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/self-improvement-is-pointlessa-scam-for-men.1066178 https://theredarchive.com/post/1066178

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