A second UNC student gets triggered by pro-life demonstrators, so she steals their sign. She tries to cry her way out, but is arrested and handcuffed.

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[–]vicious_armbar1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (33 children) | Copy Link

Well a female student literally attacked a pro-life demonstrator with no provocation a couple of days earlier repeatedly sucker punching him in the face. Yet she only get a notice to appear (no arrest).

The video was posted online. I'm sure the department got an earful from people on the the internet. Then explicitly told their officers to arrest anyone committing crimes against the demonstrators.

North Carolina is a pretty conservative place. So the local voters who elect the sheriff are sympathetic to the anti-abortion protesters.

[–]warpus 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]vicious_armbar1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (16 children) | Copy Link

A sheriff has a large amount of practical power over you. His employees have the power of arrest and the ability to use the states legal monopoly on violence. Why wouldn't you want to vote for who holds that position?

[–]warpus 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (15 children) | Copy Link

Why wouldn't you want to vote for who holds that position?

The main reason would be that I wouldn't want such a position to become political. I wouldn't want my sheriff to have to put together a platform to try to sway people this way or that way in order to get elected, I wouldn't want him to try to find donors for funding, I just want him to do his job. That's my own personal answer to your question.

Where I live we also have an independent group that's fully separate from the police department that oversees them and keeps them in check. A sheriff who breaks the law or abuses his/her power has people to answer to.

I wonder if this is done this way in the U.S. due to the pure remoteness of so many small communities all over the country? It seems to me that this was perhaps initially done so that people felt they had some powers over these officials, since they're so far removed from any regulatory agency that can keep the cops in check.

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There's a more modern higher quality video out there but I was unable to find it. Here's one made during the 1990's using an ultrasound. But you get the idea. https://youtu.be/I6OsqAYunx8?t=165

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They won't. South Carolina is politically conservative. I'm sure they've already faced blow back for not arresting the student who physically attacked anti-abortion protesters a couple of days ago. That's why this woman got arrested for a relatively minor crime.

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(3:43): "Is there something else that I can do?"

I think I have watched too much porn.

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*college girls

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He's clearly used to dealing with college students.

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It's the first time she's ever been told "no", what a shock that must have been. Your 5 year old is probably more emotionally mature than this woman.

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Yeah, the officers were letting those protesters get away with exercising their 1A rights, making it so hard for women who get abortions! To think that the girl who merely moved a sign would be arrested while those vile protesters are literally getting away with murder.

Unfortunately for this young lassie, larceny from the person, under North Carolina law, is a felony without regard to the value of the property taken. State v. Buckom, 328 N.C. 313, 401 S.E.2d 362, 364-65 (1991) (citing NC Genera Statutes §14-72(b)(1)) and State v. Sheppard, 744 S.E.2d 149, 151 (N.C.App. 2013) (internal quotes and citations omitted):

The essential elements of larceny are: (1) taking the property of another; (2) carrying it away; (3) without the owner's consent; and (4) with the intent to deprive the owner of the property permanently. When the property is taken "from the person," the larceny is a Class H felony without regard to the value of the property. For larceny to be “from the person,” the property stolen must be in the immediate presence of and under the protection or control of the victim at the time the property is taken.

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Ah but see here you’re undoing it again. What that amendment actually forbids is there being any law allowing for slavery except as a punishment. If you were to go out and grab someone and sell them, or enslave them, you wouldn’t be brought up on a constitutional violation. You’d be brought up on human trafficking or kidnapping charges and labor violations. Again, those are laws not related to the constitution.

The treason law is covered in: 18 U.S. Code § 2381. While yes the constitution does mention treason in article 3 section 3 I’d like you to note the verbiage:

Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

It is specifically limiting what can be considered treason and then stating that congress is granted the power to declare treason. It’s again a limitation of the power of Congress and the US Government. The citizens can violate the laws for treason laid out in the federal code, but they are still not violating the constitution.

It’s important to understand the difference between constitutional violation and laws because twisting the constitution into a document that limits citizens would be a step towards literal fascism. Not the fascism that’s a buzzword for left wing college kids, I’m talking actual historical fascism.

[–]Hammer_police1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Gosupanda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Well it’s sort of a yes and no argument and a bit of a gray area. It is considered the one exception, however, it’s still not a legal code. Section 2 of the amendment provides, as opposed to limits, a power of Congress to pass sweeping laws that cannot be overruled by local jurisdictions. The offending private party would then be in violation of that legislation not specifically the constitutional amendment itself. It’s basically a semantic argument, because ultimately the legislation is there to give parameters to the amendment. My point more being that constitutional violations are appealed at state or federal Supreme Courts, where this kind of violation is tried in local criminal courts. Basically it’s the one constitutional amendment that allows the federal government to require local jurisdictions to take action against violators of the legislation. However, there isn’t a way for someone to violate the amendment specifically.

[–]Hammer_police1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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You should read up on the constitution. I’m very pro-constitution and very anti-censorship. The constitution is a document designed to limit what the government can and cannot do. He didn’t take it as “Only the government can infringe on constitutional rights” that’s literally what the constitution is for. Think of it this way, laws are rules for the citizen that cannot be violated or there is punishment, and the constitution is laws for the government. Facebook, YouTube etc, cannot in any way limit your right to a public assembly but they can censor on their platform. If the government were to come in and shut down this protest due to the message, that would be a constitutional violation. If citizens came and surrounded them and barricaded and drowned out their message, that would be effective censorship that would be perfectly legal. Stealing a sign is a legal violation which is why she is suffering a legal consequence. Constitutional violations are fought in court when a law is passed that oversteps the bounds of the constitution. You could not take Twitter to court for a constitutional violation any more than you can take this girl to court for it. You can take her to court for larceny, and there are laws in place that lay out punishment for that, however there was no constitutional violation only a property law violation.

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Read the quote you posted. Where in the first amendment does it say anything about stealing? She isn’t in trouble for a constitutional violation. She is in trouble for stealing. That’s why the officer says, plain as fucking day, “you committed larceny.” He isn’t arresting her for a constitutional violation, he is arresting her for taking someone else’s property.

There is a gross misunderstanding by everyone replying to u/Motiv3z about what the constitution protects. The constitution is a document to limit the power of the government, not to limit the power of citizens. Laws are to limit the power of citizens, which is what she violated. Her and other students would be well within their rights to create a large peaceful assembly around the protesters and block their signs and drown out their message. Effectively very legally censoring them. Instead she stole their property which is a violation of a law, not the constitution.

[–]A_Wild_Raccoon0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Gosupanda1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

How is counter-protesting to censor a narrative or viewpoint not only allowing one narrative or viewpoint?

Because in order for there to be a counter-protest there has to be a protest to begin with. Ergo, multiple ideas. However if one is so much more popular than the other, say for instance the Westboro Baptist clowns are somewhere. If people want to drown them out because their message is so hateful and unpopular then that’s democracy. That’s the public rejecting their message. That’s not how these things usually go though, usually you have one side who gains an enemy and they counter protest to oppose the others and they show up in equal-ish numbers. It rarely wind up drowning out one idea unless that idea is generally considered repulsive to the masses.

Shutting down speech is not allowing a dissemination of multiple ideas, it’s literally the exact opposite.

I never said anything about shutting down speech. I simply stated it was legal to neutralize a protest via counter protest. Is protesting now the only form of speech?

[–]A_Wild_Raccoon1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Because in order for there to be a counter-protest there has to be a protest to begin with. Ergo, multiple ideas. However if one is so much more popular than the other, say for instance the Westboro Baptist clowns are somewhere. If people want to drown them out because their message is so hateful and unpopular then that’s democracy. That’s the public rejecting their message. That’s not how these things usually go though, usually you have one side who gains an enemy and they counter protest to oppose the others and they show up in equal-ish numbers. It rarely wind up drowning out one idea unless that idea is generally considered repulsive to the masses.

And primitive tribalism is better and more democratic than actually sitting down and debating ideas because...?

I never said anything about shutting down speech. I simply stated it was legal to neutralize a protest via counter protest. Is protesting now the only form of speech?

Neutralizing and silencing a person in the form of any protest is censorship. It's a form of suppressing someone's ideas.

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her mindset is fucking scary

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"You don't have the right to take someone's property" he said as she shook her head in disbelief. She was a stupid cunt.

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[–]stk2000-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Rathadin3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]stk20002 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Red-Lantern1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]a_shootin_star 40 points41 points42 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]nolookz 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stk2000-4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (2 children) | Copy Link

Lol, you’ve obviously never been to Australia. Cunt is basically like the word “um” over there.

[–]SharqPhinFtw 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]stk2000 -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]DennisQuaaludes 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]isaidsheseffengoofy 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]johnchapel 11 points12 points13 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]spirituallyinsane-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]johnchapel3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]DC_Disrspct_Popeyes -4 points-3 points-2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]johnchapel 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dungbomber000 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hcdx 114 points115 points116 points 7 years ago (174 children) | Copy Link

[–]gamle_kvitrafn 32 points33 points34 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]MyEvilAccount7 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]warpus 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]m1sta -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Pvt_lieutenant 45 points46 points47 points 7 years ago (96 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Pvt_lieutenant 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (63 children) | Copy Link

[+]Trestle87 -7 points-6 points-5 points 7 years ago (62 children) | Copy Link

[–]Pvt_lieutenant 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (37 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 7 points8 points9 points 7 years ago (36 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Trestle87 -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (34 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mecha_Derp 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (33 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle874 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Legaato3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Mecha_Derp1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Trestle871 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Mecha_Derp3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Cthulhu-ftagn1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Mecha_Derp3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Edgar_Allan_Toe0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

"Biblical Tradition" is irrelevant unless a majority supports it. In that case, that state should enact the will of its people. Literally the whole point of our government: representing the people. You talk about not wanting to be subject to the decisions of religious people. But, currently religious people are being subject to the decisions of people like you, simply because you think its "the right thing to do". If the government can ignore the will of the people because it has its own agenda, then the government no longer represents us. Obviously, not every state has a super-Christian majority. So each state would be vibrantly different in terms of culture, values, and rules based on the direct will of each state's people. You could move to which ever state best represented your beliefs. Currently, the federal government has taken so much power that every state is practically the same, as made sure by the supreme court making any variation "unconstitutional".

[–]Mecha_Derp3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Edgar_Allan_Toe0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

That's the point. The people of Alabama want this to happen. This is their government enacting their will, which is what they were elected to do. The problem is that the federal government has become so overbearing and powerful, that any decision made is made on the national level and affects everyone in the nation. This way one side always wins and one side always loses. That leaves about half of the country unhappy with the political decisions being made at any given time. If states' rights were even a thing anymore, if they were what they should be constitutionally, every state would be making their own individual stance on abortion based purely on the will of the people living in that state. Instead, we all have to go along with whatever activist has taken control of Washington every few years.

[–]nekmatu1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Edgar_Allan_Toe0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]cityrubbish -6 points-5 points-4 points 7 years ago (23 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]cityrubbish 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]cityrubbish 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle872 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Westside_till_I_die 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (11 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mecha_Derp3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Trestle871 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Crusty_Gerbil0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Westside_till_I_die0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]CRAZY_FOR_SWAYZE1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]heili 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]cityrubbish -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Crusty_Gerbil2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Paechs 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]randomsubguy 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]McCurdles 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87-4 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]McCurdles3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Trestle870 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]McCurdles3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (22 children) | Copy Link

If abortion is murder then so is the removal of a tumor. A fetus at the stage when it would be aborted is genetically no different than a tumor.

[–]Trestle87 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (21 children) | Copy Link

[–]Paechs 4 points5 points6 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (8 children) | Copy Link

[–]Paechs 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle87 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]Paechs 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Trestle872 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Paechs3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Trestle871 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]relatable_user_name1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Neither are fetuses when they’re young enough to be aborted. They’re just a collection of cells, the same as a tumor.

[–]Trestle87 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (8 children) | Copy Link

See, but I’m more than a collection of cells because life has fully formed. Notice I said, and I’ll separate it since you seem to struggle with reading,

Just a collection of cells.

Nothing else there. No brain. No feelings. No life.

[–]Trestle87 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (6 children) | Copy Link

No, there are brain functions at 6 weeks. Not a functioning brain. Even when a person dies their body continues to twitch or move simply because their brain is still firing. It doesn’t mean they’re alive in either case.

[–]CuestarWannabe2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Trestle871 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete3 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Trestle870 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]PartypantsPete2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Trestle870 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late -2 points-1 points0 points 7 years ago (46 children) | Copy Link

[–]mrjackspade 10 points11 points12 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]formershitpeasant 16 points17 points18 points 7 years ago (14 children) | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (13 children) | Copy Link

[–]formershitpeasant-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]formershitpeasant0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]formershitpeasant1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Among “rational” people? Who decided what is rational?

Please don’t regress into this pseudo-intellectual bullshit.

I absolutely support universal checks. I think every transaction should have one. HOWEVER, I would never support legislation for it.

You’re so in favor of making sure convicted murderers can’t buy guns in private sales that you would never support legislation that forbids it?

I mentioned earlier that when a compromise is made, the standards get reset and the compromises made are quickly forgotten. A check turns into registration and registration turns into confiscation.

The slippery slope argument is a fallacy.

I’ve complied with mandatory lists before and got raided twice for my trouble. I have multiple degrees, a house in the country with a white picket fence, kids and two dogs. No arrest history.

It DOES happen.

WTF are you talking about? What mandatory lists are you even referencing and why did you agree to whatever Orwellian bullshit this is? BTW, I’m just assuming you’re full of shit because raids require warrants and warrants require a level of reasonable suspicion including evidence. If you’re getting raided for whatever weird registry you’re referencing maybe you should get a lawyer and sue for gross infringement of civil rights.

[–]10minutes_late0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Sigh... Here we go...

It's not pseudo-intellectual bullshit. You took it upon yourself to determine what is rational and therefore anyone who disagrees is irrational. Everyone's definition is different. In this game, definitions are extremely important. I'm surprised you haven't figured that out.

I'm in favor of checks. However... NICS has so many holes that even mass shooters have passed screenings. Mandating them also means establishing what is criteria for "Approved" and "Disapproved". Felonies and violent crime is a no-brainer. Mental health? Who passes and who fails? You got dumped and got a Rx for Zoloft, are you permanently Disapproved now? What about medical Marijuana? Guess what, genius... In some states those conditions will earn you a raid. As I said, it's not bullshit, I've experienced it firsthand.

History is not fallacy numbnuts. In MD, it began with universal federal background checks for regulated firearms (records are supposed to be destroyed, but FFL's are required to hold on to all records for 5-10+ years). Then it became federal and state checks, each with different reqs. Voluntary registration began next (any weapon you owned did NOT have to be registered). A few years later, mandatory registration began (Name, address, serial number, DL number). Next came confiscation, AGAIN, which I was threatened with.

Mandatory registration IS the list. Some states have it, some don't. Mine does. The raids I'm referring to had no warrants. In on case, they were armed SWAT pounding on my door demanding to be let in because I ASKED my doctor what are the pros/cons of depression meds. That's enough for the doc to report to police I could be a danger to myself. The raid came, I wasn't even home, and without a warrant they could not break in. The second was a couple officers, coming to confiscate a firearm that I bought from a dealer, was fingerprinted and APPROVED by the same agency. I was buying another, but during this check they pulled up a misdemeanor on my juvenille record from 15 years prior. I called my lawyer, I didn't let either party in.

I don't know what bubble you live in, but you should really learn more about the subject before assuming people are full of shit.

[–]formershitpeasant1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]formershitpeasant1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]formershitpeasant1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Kingbuji 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (22 children) | Copy Link

[–]MyEvilAccount1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (7 children) | Copy Link

Extremely rare. However, if you leave a loophole that allows for abortion in that instance you are:

A hypocrite, allowing what you consider murder of an innocent in one circumstance but not another.
Open the floodgates for every woman who wants an abortion to be able to say "well... I was raped."

[–]10minutes_late 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (6 children) | Copy Link

[–]MyEvilAccount1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (5 children) | Copy Link

It's like they have no sense of human nature.

[–]10minutes_late 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]MyEvilAccount-2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]MyEvilAccount1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Kingbuji1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]TinyWightSpider -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (9 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TinyWightSpider -5 points-4 points-3 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]TinyWightSpider -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kingbuji -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Kingbuji0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Kingbuji1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]heidisatwork -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Mecha_Derp 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]10minutes_late 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]tatatita -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]royaldunlin1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (21 children) | Copy Link

I mean, it’s not wrong...

[–]muslim-shrek -3 points-2 points-1 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hcdx 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

[–]ranman2000 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (5 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Kirahvi- 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago* (0 children) | Copy Link

People from Canada travel to the US for healthcare. I’d say I’d trust this country with my healthcare given the alternatives. The issue with it is that’s its stuck in a somewhat regulated hell, instead of being a free market.

Yes I want to set a precedent of not allowing women to kill their babies because it’s convenient. Imo if you want an abortion, it should be done prior to a heartbeat. After that, abortion should be out the window.

It's a very small percentage of people who fall into those categories, but if it's going to be safe and accessible for one person, then it needs to be safe and accessible for all

That’s a slippery slope. Some people really do need highly addictive medication for treatment that shouldn’t be in the hands of anyone not under the supervision of a doctor. That doesn’t mean everyone else should get access to it just because some people medically need it while others don’t. Justifying the hundreds of thousands of abortions a year by citing that the few tens of thousands of medically required abortions just won’t cut it as an argument.

I’m pro-life and I don’t know of a single pro-life person who thinks abortions shouldn’t be given in cases where it’s medically advised. If the baby is risking the mother’s life, then I support that abortion. That’s a small amount of abortions though. The majority of them are for convenience. I’d even be for abortions in case of rape and incest, but again, that’s only 1.5% of abortions.

My issue aswell is I feel women don’t understand what really happens in abortions once the baby is a tad bit developed. It’s straight up dismembering with tongs. I feel like if you support something, you should be able to watch it be carried out, or even to do it yourself. I support the death penalty. I would and can sit through and watch a serial killer be put to death. Can someone who supports abortion watch as a doctor reaches in with some spiked tongs and pulls out 2 arms, 2 legs, smushes the head causing the cerebral fluid to gush out, before extracting the head and body? Probably not.

[–]ziekktx 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

[–]Bart_Dethtung 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]jyrkesh 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Hipp0131 points 7 years ago [recovered] (11 children) | Copy Link

Yes it is.

[–]royaldunlin1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (10 children) | Copy Link

Can you be pro gun without owning a gun? Or would that also be called pro-choice?

[–]Preblegorillaman 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]Dallas_Stars_Fan 3 points4 points5 points 7 years ago* (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Kirahvi- 6 points7 points8 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Kirahvi- 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

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[–]shengch 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]StreetlampEsq 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]BeerOnTap1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

Pro-Death.

Will also accept Pro-Murder.

[–]DJ_Mike 46 points47 points48 points 7 years ago (17 children) | Copy Link

[–]bruisedunderpenis 29 points30 points31 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

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[–]EmperorOfCanada 20 points21 points22 points 7 years ago (7 children) | Copy Link

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[–]1LostYouth-12 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]A_Bridgeburner 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (4 children) | Copy Link

[–]mechathatcher1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (3 children) | Copy Link

In the USA they have something called project prevention which sterilises drug addicts so they can't pro-create in return for some (drug) money.

[–]A_Bridgeburner 5 points6 points7 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

[–]mechathatcher1 points 7 years ago [recovered] (1 child) | Copy Link

I'd have to know that it works in achieving its presumed aims of less childhood poverty. If so I have no problem. This is not forced sterilisation after all.

[–]A_Bridgeburner 2 points3 points4 points 7 years ago (0 children) | Copy Link

[–]ZeroNet_on_Github2 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Pecorino_Giovani 12 points13 points14 points 7 years ago (32 children) | Copy Link

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[–]OH_CALI20171 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[+]Leroyjankins8989 -19 points-18 points-17 points 7 years ago (10 children) | Copy Link

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[–]Mailforpepesilvia 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (1 child) | Copy Link

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[–]Odysseus_is_Ulysses-15 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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What’s the difference? Let me make it simple for you. If my GF were to get pregnant unexpectedly and let’s say for this example I am not financially capable of providing for the baby, I personally would not want my GF to have an abortion. I would (and hopefully her) would want to worst case put the baby up for adoption. I personally would do everything in my power to avoid going down that road. I am not FOR abortion. I think abortion should be avoided at all cost and absolutely should not be a form of birth control. Having said that, I do think that there are situations in which abortion should be an option for the two people that the pregnancy affects most, and I think everyone should have the right to make that choice on their own. I don’t think people should force THEIR personal religious, political, ethical options on people that they are not.

That would make me pro-choice, not pro-abortion.

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You don't even know how the arrest process works.

Detained
Arrested and read rights
Booked at the station, or written a ticket at scene with court date
Court date, and bond or bail is set if taken to station
Officers usually release person if they are nonviolent, not intoxicated, not a flight risk
If they have set bail, then someone can bail them out of jail to await arraignment
They go to court for their arraignment (basically to submit a guilty/not guilty plea, go over evidence)
After arraignment is decided, another court date is set for sentencing
Once sentenced (probation, community service, fine, and/or jail time), the person must serve that sentence

I've been arrested and after I was booked, they just drove me home.

Yes, she will be released the same day, but that in no way means that they will not be punished.

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I'm just happy she didn't hurt anyone. People in the left are really losing their minds and it's just a matter of time before they start hurting good people.

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So what you are saying is that when you don't like something, It is just a false statement by (insert whatever political agenda that you disagree with here). That way you can just believe whatever you want and ignore facts. That's and interesting way to do it, but unfortunately that doesn't change the truth. This is a big and growing problem that when someone disagrees with something, they just claim it to be false and blame whomever they are opposed to.

The fact that you "don't know the actual statistic" yet you are here claiming it to be false says a lot about you.

Here is the actual statistic from the CDC website. As you can see, the number of women who are victims of sexual assault are 1/3 and the number who are raped or attempted raped are 1/5. Is the government website now a leftist organisation too? According to your logic, you shouldn't even let your daughter leave the house, let alone go to college. I can't force you to believe the truth but I can try and prevent the spread of misinformation that will only further the problem.

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pro noun \ ˈprō \ plural pros Definition of pro (Entry 1 of 7) 1 : an argument or evidence in affirmation an appraisal of the pros and cons 2 : the affirmative side or one holding it

abortion noun abor·tion | \ ə-ˈbȯr-shən \ Definition of abortion 1 : the termination of a pregnancy after, accompanied by, resulting in, or closely followed by the death of the embryo or fetus: such as a : spontaneous expulsion of a human fetus during the first 12 weeks of gestation — compare MISCARRIAGE b : induced expulsion of a human fetus c : expulsion of a fetus by a domestic animal often due to infection at any time before completion of pregnancy — compare CONTAGIOUS ABORTION 2a : a misshapen thing or person : MONSTROSITY b informal + sometimes offensive : something regarded as horrifically or disgustingly bad 3 : arrest of development (as of a part or process) resulting in imperfection also : a result of such arrest

So, someone who is on the affirmative side of terminating a pregnancy.

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Just FYI it’s not always a religious argument based on the soul concept, although that’s a common one. Im not trying to attack you, if it comes off that way then it’s due to a poor choice of wording on my part.

The secular pro-life argument is that a fetus should be treated as a natural person because if the natural course of life is uninterrupted then that fetus will become an infant child. So under that theory it’s almost impossible to draw a before/after line for when an abortion should be allowed. What’s the difference in one day in either direction of the cut off point? How many people are going to be 100% certain as to the time of fertilization in order to track that time? As long as the natural process isn’t interrupted then a fetus will become a child. There are non-abortion interruptions that happen to this process sometimes, many of those have no discernible cause (miscarriages). But it doesn’t negate that the normal natural course of pregnancy is the birth of an infant child which no sane person (or maybe a philosopher making an academic point) would say it’s ok to interrupt the natural course of its development. We all agree that’s murder, so where is an interruption to the natural course of development ok? It’s a hard question to answer.

Not saying whether I agree with the argument or not, just saying what it is. It’s important for us all to acknowledge the strengths of our opponents arguments. Not everyone I disagree with is stupid. Some of them are, but certainly not all of them. Rarely does a complicated problem have a simple solution.

[–]Coolglockahmed 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (3 children) | Copy Link

[–]Atlman7892 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (2 children) | Copy Link

Honestly I don’t think your idea is a bad one, I haven’t thought about that specifically but it seems rather reasonable. I’ll have to find some more information on the ins and outs of that perspective. If you have any articles or something send them to me.

I think that “hard cases” are a huge distraction in the whole debate. According to planned parenthood most abortions are performed early on, usually not long after the woman is positive she is pregnant. Most of the time it’s because the woman didn’t plan on being pregnant or is in a bad spot with a relationship, financially or otherwise. I don’t buy into the idea that there are all these women out there that just LOVE having abortions, like they would sign up for a buy one get one free abortion special. That’s fucking nonsense. I don’t have the statistics PP released in front of me but they are pretty easy to find (Congressional source from the funding battle).

I’m not against planned parenthood, they provide (especially low health access groups) with essential health care services. I really wish that we could spend the majority of our discussion on how to bring down the number of unplanned/unwanted pregnancies. Increasing access and use of birth control, improving the conditions a mother feels she would be bringing the child into. Things like that would be much more productive.

If we only had to discuss the cases where the mothers health is in serious danger, which I don’t get why that’s a part of the debate honestly. If the mother is about to die and the baby dies as a consequence of the efforts to save the mothers life then that’s not an abortion... that’s an unfortunate outcome of an emergency life threatening situation and the appropriate medical procedure. That leaves cases of rape, then I think we could have a sort of thing where we allow doctors to make their own judgement call about what is best to do in that situation; with the mother being the only other person with an input. I don’t want to get the government involved in that, that’s not a position any woman says “yeah that sounds like a fun time, sign me up for a rape abortion”. And I don’t want to insert myself into that situation. I can’t say I would know what the right call is to make, especially not in a blanket way that I would be comfortable enshrining into law.

If you want to solve a problem I’m of the opinion you should start at the source. And unplanned pregnancies are hard on a woman’s body and life even if you don’t have a moral objection to abortion. All the sides win. Pro-life gets a huge reduction in abortions, pro-choice gets expanded prevention and protection for hard cases and women in general get more access to better health outcomes. I think we should all sit down and be rational for 5 minutes and use that as our starting point. Setting up this fake choice between “abortions for all” or “never have sex unless you are married and trying to have a child” is a useless framework to be talking in. I literally can’t think of a worse way to discuss this issue than how our culture is doing right now.

[–]Coolglockahmed -1 points0 points1 point 7 years ago* (1 child) | Copy Link

Increasing access and use of birth control

I think we’ve got to just quit lying to ourselves about how this happens. Birth control is easy to get. It’s cheap, it’s accessible for everyone. Condoms cost next to nothing and the pill is also cheap. If your condom breaks or something happens go get a plan b. We’ve all been there. Out of all the abortions and plan b’s and close calls of everyone I’ve ever known, it’s always just us making dumb choices. I’d guess most of us never use condoms unless were hooking up with some rando. Hell, I’ve always pulled out my whole life but basically all my friends are just busting in chicks and hoping they’re on birth control. Plenty of abortions I know about from exactly that. Trusting the woman to be on birth control and not missing a few days here and there, and then suddenly panicking when she misses her period. Like yeah man wtf did you think was going to happen, you put your fate in the hands of another person and now here you are. And now I’ve got to listen to you pretend that rape abortions have something to do with the situation you got yourself into? I’m sick of the lying and the avoidance of any responsibility. You know how I had my first kid? Didn’t pull out, and my girlfriend was missing days here and there with her pill. Boom that’s a baby. We kept her, got married and it’s been amazing, we have a second that was actually planned this time. But I’m so sick of this lack of personal responsibility, blaming everything on your situation and never on your own life choices. It’s pretty popular right now.

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[–]Jimmy2e1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (19 children) | Copy Link

Ask any potential father.

[–]TractionJackson 1 point2 points3 points 7 years ago (18 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jimmy2e1 points 7 years ago* [recovered] (17 children) | Copy Link

Or they're forced to because the woman wants the baby.

Who forces them?

[–]TractionJackson 0 points1 point2 points 7 years ago (16 children) | Copy Link

[–]Jimmy2e-1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

So first you're saying that '[men] are forced to [take responsibility] because the woman wants the baby.' Now you're saying no one is forcing men to take responsibility and be fathers if they don't want to?

What exactly are you trying to say then? It's as though you haven't even coherently formed an opinion about this issue. I'm trying to understand your logic, but I don't.

It's your right to have an opinion that men should be held accountable for their sexual decisions and women be given privileges to subvert that responsibility at will. Just understand that your position is inherently sexist and any attempt to refute it is non-logical, no matter if you're intentions are good or not. Just own it. Hypocrisy be damned.

Also, I'm not even going to try to argue the validity of your statement of men not being held responsible by society for their sexual interactions. Because it's clearly demonstrated in popular culture and law that you're incorrect.

[–]TractionJackson1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

[–]Jimmy2e0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

Yes and what we're discussing is the notion of holding adults responsible for the outcomes as to the risks [unwanted children] related to sexual intercourse. To which you responded that making two people spend 18 years raising a child is unacceptable.

To which I responded with how is this [sexual responsibility in a no abortion world] any different than the risk all men must currently assume when engaging in sexual intercourse?

Your response was:

They want kids. Or they're forced to because the woman wants the baby. That's different than the government telling them they have no option.

To which I asked;

Who forces them?

I asked this because the government/society forces men to take responsibility for the risks of sex [unwanted children] all the time.

At the end of the day, I don't particularly care about abortion from a moral/legal standpoint; it's a women's issue because I'll never experience childbirth. What I care about is the hypocrisy of the 'my body, my choice' argument in a world where men are told they gave up their rights the moment they engaged in sex.

Where's men's rights to financial abortion?

Anything less in a legal abortion world is inequality and gender privilege. I'd rather both parties be held legally accountable than to continue to this gender based oppression of men.

[–]TractionJackson0 points 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

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[–]Jimmy2e1 point 7 years ago [recovered] | Copy Link

I wasn't basing my argument for or against abortion as a Men's rights issue, I was responding to an OP who said it was a Men and Women's issue. Men don't have a choice in a woman's decision to get an abortion (nor should they) but men also don't have a choice as to whether they want to be financially liable for that decision. I'm just stating that the inequality within the broader parental right/responsibilities between men and women are an issue and to castype this as a battle benefiting both genders is incredulous given the systemic inequality that exists otherwise.

Some of my other response:

What I care about is the hypocrisy of the 'my body, my choice' argument in a world where men are told they gave up their rights the moment they engaged in sex.

Where's men's rights to financial abortion?

Anything less in a legal abortion world is inequality and gender privilege. I'd rather both parties be held legally accountable than to continue to this gender based oppression of men.

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Relax psycho, we're all not all against women's rights here. We're just against the pass.

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Yeah I agree, the rape argument is weak because if it’s a separate human life the fact that it was a product of rape doesn’t make a difference. It’s just an attempt to get you in your feelings and agree to their conclusion. I don’t believe in souls or any of that shit, but there’s obviously a big spectrum, from the plan B pill within a few days of conception all the way to day before delivery abortions.

I think it’s funny that basically everyone, pro life or not, when seeing a pregnant woman smoking or drinking will have a negative reaction to it, but why should they if they don’t consider that to be a separate living being? It seems like if you saw a pregnant lady smoking and you said something to her and her response was, ‘it’s ok I’m having an abortion’, there would be some kind of negative judgement made even among pro choice people.

Sometimes I hear the body autonomy argument, that a person can do with their body what they wish, (often made by people who don’t believe a person has a right to their own labor, and has a right to the labor of others, the healthcare is a right folks) but it seems like if someone was reliant on your labor to survive and you denied them that labor, we would look down on that person as selfish and horrible. Say if someone needed a life saving blood transfusion right then and there and you decided that it was your body your choice and said ‘no’, we would not view that as a good thing.

Idk the whole situation is a lot more complicated than what can be put on a sign at some lame protest.

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You really haven't spent a lot of time considering the views of your opposition huh?

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Seems it. Bunch of pro lifers in here, acting all high and mighty. The girl shouldn't have taken the sign. But that doesn't mean that "pro lifers" are correct. They still want the right to control women's bodies.

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black hair and a dude. so stop with your stereotyping.

you know that most abortions are only done up until the 3rd month. when the fetus cant feel pain, or anything to be precise. biologicly speaking its more a tumore at this point. and forcing them to cary out birth that might harm or kill them.
and realisticly speaking, are you expecting a mother who might not want to have a baby to be a good mother who cares for that child? are you expecting the father who might not want to be involved with this to go along? are you expecting the allready full orphanages to take care of another child a mother didnt wanted to have? are you prepared to change society so that mothers can give their children away wich they didnt wanted to have? are you ok with an increase in child mortality as mothers who dont want to have children will get rid of them one way or another? are you prepared to pay more taxes for childcare programs as low income households who accidentaly bear children and now have to take loans to cary the child? are you prepared to adopt a child that has no family?
do you just want to play the vitues guy or are you in deniel of reality?

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Then what was your intent with the "You people" comment, if not a derogatory remark?

As to your edit: "your extreme position is either the baby is conscious since conception, or not conscious until it pops out of the mothers vagina. As though there can’t be a point in that 9 month period where it gains consciousness. That’s a close minded extreme way of thinking."

I have literally never said that, nor advocated that position. Perhaps you are confusing my question to you about when that happens as a position I myself had?

I will say I at least appreciate your last comment, as that was much more of a polite disagreement than some of previous exchanges.

Am I wrong to think we at least agree that the laws are too lax in Alaska, Colorado, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, Oregon, and Vermont, along with Washington, D.C, which have no gestational limits on abortion? Should we have some sort of testing to determine if the child/fetus/clump of cells is conscious before red light green light response on abortion? what would that look like?

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A second UNC student gets triggered by pro-life demonstrators, so she steals their sign. She tries to cry her way out, but is arrested and handcuffed.

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MUH SOGINY!!!