A girls perspective on ‘nice guys’

JacobMoogberg69 · 2021-11-05T06:11:24+00:00

I urge guys to read No More Mr Nice Guy or watch David Tian's video on Fixers/White Knights to get into a little more depth about what it means to be a nice guy and why it is so off putting.

But basically it comes down to this. Nice guy behaviors are driven a deep seated belief/shame that you are unworthy, not good enough and screwed up in some mortally flawed way. Niceness is basically a behavior to cover up our perceived flaws and inner ugliness (if women see me for who I am they will run the other way).

Many guys never want to fix the inner problem and they even cling to the outward behaviors as if it was virtuous to be a nice guy. You even see guys on this thread defend nice guyness.

NarwhalNips · 2021-11-05T02:37:37+00:00

It's like nice guys are either just trying way too hard to be as nice as possible and serve their female counterpart, and/or just plain boring.

Be your own person and don't make such a big deal about "oh it's a girl I have to be extra nice so she likes me" just be yourself crack jokes, act like you do around guy friends just not super vulgar and stuff.

Most "nice guys" fail to try and be friends, real, good, friends with the girl they like and just try way too hard to do everything "perfect" to land them. It's pretty silly and self-defeating

BluePsychosisDude2 · 2021-11-05T02:34:58+00:00

I think nice guys are unattractive because they are basically constantly wearing the societal mask of politeness, like they never get into the meat and potatoes of human relationships, because they're stuck on the "Hi, it's been a pleasure to meet with you! Perhaps we can rendevouz in the future some time! I never think about sex or bad things!" level. I mean, most girls want to have hot sex, you have to get beyond the white-picket-fence mentality at some point and be real with them.

There's probably also the general vibe of innocence that nice guys give off, like they haven't really been outside the bubble of their childhood yet. Like they give off the vibe that they'd rather be downstairs playing Nintendo Switch while mommy cooks a meal. These guys would get eaten alive with real tough guys or in an environment that stresses competence and leadership. That's pretty unattractive to women, women really don't like dating guys with a youthful mindset. Men like dating girls with a more innocent mindset though, probably because it points to fertility. Which is related to women rating men 4-5 years older than them as attractive, while men throughout their life rate 20 year old women as most attractive.

I remember when I was in junior high a lot of the other guys were getting into sports, getting fit, making sex jokes with girls, going to parties, listening to rap, etc. while I was playing Nintendo DS (that's aging me), and made video games on the computer. I was a smart guy and pretty motivated and could be funny and likeable, plus not horrible looking and reasonably tall, some girls were interested, but I was just too stuck in my childhood and wanting to hold onto my innocence to try anything with girls. I think if I had older male mentors to push me along I would have developed better, but my dad didn't care at all, and my mom still wanted me to be a baby, so it took me a while.

TiedHands · 2021-11-05T08:53:48+00:00

This just confirms what the bulk of my female friends have always told me, that good guys are boring and they like "bad boys" because they're exciting and its a challenge for them to "fix" them. Its mind boggling to me that being a genuinely nice guy has been co-opted and been given a negative connotation. I know what people are referring to when they say "nice guys", I just wish someone had come up with another term for it. All this does is convince good guys that they need to be assholes to get a girl, but strangely enough, they'll be told they're not nice enough...

hisgreatness64 · 2021-11-05T06:58:41+00:00

Let me dispell the big mystery to you guys.

First, as guys we use the one to ten scale. She's a two she's a five that one is fine as hell what a ten. They fall instantly in love like nature is saying let me put a baby in it.

With women when it comes to the looks department it's pass or fail. In all my life I have never heard a woman do the one to ten scale.. After you pass the looks department, they ask what else do you got. Now I don't mean your bullshit. I'm not saying there's not gold diggers out there but most don't give a shit about your car, your house, your job or that expensive watch you just bought. What I mean when they ask what else ya got I mean; are you kind, are you funny, are you patient, are you talented in some way, are you smart? Something, anything else.

Too many guys believe in bait (the body, the car, the job etc.) If you're one of them it's because you believe you are insufficient and unworthy. It's the belief you got to earn something. You don't. You're good enough as you are. Not someday but today.

Secondly, when it comes to attraction, heterosexual women are attracted to all things masculine and repulsed by all things feminine. Masculine mannerisms does not mean macho. You don't have to spend your life in a tree stand waiting to kill something or be the type of guy who jogs home from his own vasectomy to be masculine.

Masculine mannerisms means confidence, swagger, assertiveness, leadership qualities. That's what women find attractive. You can work in IT and love comic books and be masculine.

Third, there is nothing special about being nice. Society expects you to be nice. Women like nice guys. Genuinely nice guys. But that's not what women mean when they say he's a nice guy.

When people talk about someone being a nice guy they almost exclusively mean timid. Its just a more polite term. Don't confuse timid for nice. Timid comes across as very feminine and as such very unattractive. Not saying women can't be assertive but no man is allowed to be timid. Only women are. A timid man will be pushed around the entirety of his life and therefore comes across as weak.

To the OP'S observations, those women were not saying they don't like nice guys. They were saying they don't like timid guys who lack the confidence and courage to plainly go after what they want. That it's repulsive when a man instead attempts to create attraction indirectly while possessing none of the qualities they actually find attractive.

What your friends actually want is somebody they find physically attractive (you can make a 65 and be okay) who has some confidence swagger etc and has that something else and knows how to display it.

Boom, mystery solved.

VDKay · 2021-11-05T05:55:38+00:00

Yeah so basically the whole thing is a big fucking farce and there’s no logic to it

Yeah, well, if you are trying to connect and communicate with girls at an logical level, you've already lost. Girls are emotional. Notice how most of your points can be explained by that:

Guys who tease and challenge them are fun to be around, they make their emotions jump around: fun, anger, challenge, etc. in comparison with nice-guys who are emotional flat-lines
They are attracted to mysterious guys because they make their heart pound. They bring up that thrill of exploring and uncovering secrets
They know that even if they do make a resolution to go for nice-guys, their feelings will probably fail them. Logic and discipline are not enough for them. Emotion is what drives them the most, and bad boys are full of it!
Confidence is attractive because it means that a man will generally stand his ground in several situations and be a "fighter" and "protector". That may not necessarily be true, but women are hard-wired (emotionally) to seek out such men because in the primitive society that's how they can increase their chances of keeping being alive.

willgo-waggins · 2021-11-05T05:51:12+00:00

This is a pretty interesting post here and I find it informative but shallow.

I am a decent human being. I am a professional. A single father. Tall and good looking with tremendous self confidence but not in an egotistical manner. I am financially sound and don’t “need” anyone to “complete” me so I walk around with an air that shows that.

I actually believe that very many women find this to be a particular challenge. And it shows.

Another thing is that I have come to a point in life where I basically do not pursue. I will of course nail down the deal in short order if a woman shows interest and especially if she pursues me. I just did this tonight. And just because I am “nice” I still generally will be aiming to have sex with you so I make sure to project that to test the return vibe and make sure I am not wasting my time.

Oh and honestly to be true here, most women react well to at least a moderate amount of depreciation initially. Don’t put her on a pedestal or make her a Madonna. Don’t pull out the stops to nail things down until you are sure you have her in the bag.

redditerfan · 2021-11-05T02:39:53+00:00

"They made a resolution to only go for guys from now on but knew they probably wouldn’t" ---

yeah go get your money back.

scenesick2 · 2021-11-05T03:49:14+00:00

I hope people don't start thinking " oh does that mean I should be an asshole? " or start believing being nice is a bad thing.

nice guy
- will agree with her on anything or everything to avoid conflict
- afraid of saying something offensive / she doesnt like
- start meaningless small talk instead of making a move
- constantly compliment all the time and I'm sure plenty of guys aren't doing that all the time in her DM's

which means in the relationship there's no excitement since you know he's going to agree with everything you say, he will always be there for you, he will always put you first instead of himself, which means it gets boring REAL FAST.

The problem is guys only do the above things IN THE HOPES THAT SHE WILL LIKE YOU MORE WHICH MEANS THAT IS YOUR INTENTION AND YOUR ACTIONS ARE NOT GENUINE.

It costs $0 to be confident, stand up for yourself, know what's right or wrong, give someone the brutal truth, say what needs to be said, be mysterious, etc.
If you start doing things because ITS THE RIGHT THING TO DO instead of " I hope she'll like me more because of this ", and actually act GENUINE with NO INTENTIONS OF
" I hope we'll bang later " then that is when you'll finally realize what it's like to be an authentic person with morals.

ioanshsd · 2021-11-05T04:46:57+00:00

I have Asperger’s so I don’t know how to tease and challenge because it involves heavy social cues. This whole post is depressing since I can’t learn any of it. I tend to be very passive because I can’t tell when to appropriately make a move or be assertive without being weird. Again, no social cues.

WeakEmu8 · 2021-11-05T02:07:34+00:00

Cut all those words down to "didn't make you tingle"

Narcan9 · 2021-11-05T07:08:10+00:00

That's why I wear a hooded cape and hang out in shadows. Really attracts the chicks.

Philipparty · 2021-11-05T09:31:02+00:00

It should be noted that a lot of people have unresolved relationship issues, and go for what feels familiar or stimulating. If you think you disserve shit and drama, then somebody normal wont give you the same energy as someone shitty

Marzwoody · 2021-11-05T12:00:42+00:00

Advice for any "nice guys" TAKE THE LEAD! you lead her. Don't ask where she wants to go or over apologize or be too polite. Lead her and she will follow. Easiest way to get out of being a nice guy.

RichDicken · 2021-11-05T05:36:13+00:00

Good thing I'm a sigma male, looks like I'm already naturally doing everything right.

FlanneryODostoevsky · 2021-11-05T07:01:26+00:00

Dudes talk about men needing to be leaders and then come up with the idea that they can lead by olaying to these weaknesses of women, these moments when they admittedly act not on logic but emotion. The reality of this is that it works so long as a woman decides youre of value yo her. But being a real man would mean not catering to this bullshit and instead being a respectdul and sincere nice guy who is still confident and confortable with rejection, himself knowing that it's probably a woman not worth his time that would reject him.

EffortlessAwareness · 2021-11-05T05:00:04+00:00

Theres a middle way— It’s called Assertiveness. Not agressive (being a complete asshole blunt cold like intentionally ) and being passive (nice overly polite bs)

Im a guy. Its called assertiveness. It’s just social intelligence being centered, Present and dynamic. The middle way is assertiveness, Not too rigid and not too soft,

You want to know how to develop this assertiveness—Try Zen meditation, Its not just sitting in a meditative state its in your actions being in zen. Its the harmonization of your thought action. Zen always in flow and your rhythm being in that meditative state, always centered, being centered like you are the universe too and your actions on it are not an interference but an expression of the totality. Zen keeps you centered, meditation is not about being buddha like you have to be a certain type of way, You are allowed to have ego—It helps you just be in your flow state, a subtle level of confidence boldness and the universe conspires with you. Thats where assertiveness is developed. Its subtle but its within you and then things around you life universe flows marveously to fulfill your desires and objectives you meet the right people, conversations with women picking up women, charming and actually taking them to bed just flows beautifully —If this is the thing you wantmore of in your lifez Being in Zen, meditation doing this once in the morning for 30 minutes just puts you in flow with everything you desire in your life. You become in synch with the universe and the world becomes your playground, meditation automatically detaches you from your self its subtle you may not feel detached, but you will notice your creativity opens up everything every girl in a more relaxed state where your connection between your conscious mind and subconscious mind is just flowing theres no (I shouldve said this or i shudve said that, or you dont feel on the spot you are never NON-PLUS where you need to think of something to say, to force something, You are more relaxed present, like easy breazy) and you dont even have to consciously think of how to adjust to the environment or people or in this case women its not something you have to do consciously, like strained stressed to act w certain way you just relax and your being subconscious automatically knows your intentions and you will always say the right thing at the right time because you don’t care and the meditative state just the words you speak are the perfect words for that interaction—Its just rhythm flow, Being in Zen (doing 30 min meditation in morning) is like Ultra Instinct In Dragon Ball Z. Fools will laugh at me but the wise will understand/-Your subconscious (superconscious) mind is like a superpower and it will adjust you wont even have to try or strain its the opposite of that you will just be the king of seduction your subconscious mind picks up the subconscious minds of those around you, we are all connected so being in zen you will always say the perfect thing to that girl you run into you dont have to contrive or plan thats doing it the wrong way, its always on the spot. its like improv and whatever you say will tailor to her depending on your intention. Don’t make it rigid, planned, like you’re reading off of a card. meditate 30 minutes first thing in the a.m and boom your creativity flows like music you become in flow with the universe.

The way these seduction tips tricks that guys are searching for on here because they think they have to overconsciously behave in a particular way and begin to overcorrect one way or another. Zen meditation is the sincere way of not giving a fuck- ppl say they dont give a fuck carrying it as a concept like thinking this and then their interaction with women goes weird because they over correct.

the subtle art of “not giving a fuck” without anger behind it, is not done by you consciously, its done by your superconscious mind, and that is done through meditation. Meditation is sitting without thinking about anything—Close your eyes and Listen to the sounds around you as if they were music of life, as if you never heardthe sounds before as if you were hearing the sounds for the first time, listen to the noises of lofe without identifying them (ie cars driving by, hear it as the noise itself, dont think or even feel its a car driving by simply hear the noise as the noise itself this is the easiest way to get into meditative state and then after 10 minutes switch to your breath, follow your breath through the nose) Best way is to go from sound hearing then to your breath in that order)

Thats the key to any help with any seduction and fulfilling your desires and wishes in all aspects of your life. The key is to simply get in your flow state and Meditation once a day in the a.m for 20-30 minutes means you are always in your flow state. Some people get into flow state by playing sports getting tired, that also. Meditation is just the ultimate way to keep in your flow state. The state of Zen.

SuaveFuck · 2021-11-05T04:39:28+00:00

there's a huge difference in being "nice" and being "NICE".

nice: holding a door open for a girl, smiling, being polite, being generally friendly and just getting on with the day afterwards.

NICE: holding the door open, then telling the girl for 10 minutes how "nice" one is - then expecting sex to happen and starting to make death threats if command is not being executed by sex object in front of them WHO IS ANYHOW A TOTAL FUCKING SLUT, huge outburst of rage (meanwhile eyes of NICE guy start to glow sith yellow)

i was a NICE guy for way too long. yes, there are way too many ladies who take advantage of real honest niceness. but its usually the NICE guy who offers himself first as a doormat for everything (un)conditionally, in the constant delusion this behavior will lead to sex. not a relationship, mind you.

"did i ever tell you the definition of insanity?"

my verdict:
be nice, but assertive, firm to your own self.

scarletts_skin · 2021-11-05T13:01:37+00:00

There’s a difference between a nice guy and a r/niceguy. All we want is for dudes to treat us like people. Don’t fucking put us on a pedestal. We burp and fart and make mistakes just like guys. We’re not perfect and we’re not a prize to be won. We’re just fucking people.

rewinder909 · 2021-11-05T05:58:07+00:00

I think it's not about nice guys but more about needy guys. Usually nice guys are needy but not all of them. You can be nice and still be confident. You don't need to be a douche.

Rusalka96 · 2021-11-05T14:39:17+00:00

I think a big problem with this “nice guy” attitude is that people forget that EVERYONE makes mistakes. Nice guys think that they can offer the world, that they will never cheat,lie, or hurt their partner. But that is not realistic! Every single couple fights, even the nicest, longest relationship you can think of. They fight…they go to bed mad, their partner sheds a tear because times are tough. And when nice guys say they would be the perfect partner, but then they bash women, call them names, yell at their female friends for not choosing them…that’s not proving that they could be a reasonable partner in a relationship. Just remember that you will hear about the bad relationships, people will post about it on social media, vent to their friends. But the good relationships don’t need validation as much so you may not hear about them that often, but that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. Think about, how many “nice guys” post that they are in a happy relationship and the woman they pursued gave them a chance vs how many of them post about their failed attempt of getting a woman’s attention and ask what they can do differently.

2021-11-06T00:08:01+00:00

oh boy… i have a doozy for you then.

i met a nice guy, he had a great smile, made good money, seemed sweet and charming…

he was super nice.

i was in the middle of a split from my fiancé of over 10 years who was a liar and a cheater at the time, but still had hoped we’d work it out somehow…

told the nice guy, i don’t want to date him, we can be friends and he should keep dating other people.

he opened doors for me, refused to let me pay for anything.

one day he asked me where i was, and i told him, then he showed up at the mall i told him i was at, and we went walking around the mall together.

while there i was stopped by the ultimate lotion boss.

mind you i am never stopped by these people, i can usually blow them off pretty easily, but this one was so persistent i said “fine”

he did the whole rigmarole of scrubbing my hands with the salt oil mix, then put the lotion on my hands, flattering me with compliments as one does at these kiosks the entire time.

now this guy wasn’t with me at this moment. he was off doing his own thing- so i thought.

so i’m over here thinking, can’t wait for this to be over so i can move on and be done with it all while exchanging fake pleasantries so as not to be rude.

mr nice guy is off in the fake bushes by the fountain in the mall watching all of this play out

i finish up with the ultimate lotion boss and start feeling bad about my decision to not buy anything and i decided “fine, i’ll buy some of this scrub and lotion. you worked for it, you deserve a tip.”

after this mr nice guy re-appears asking me what “that was all about?” and i’m laughing because it’s never happened to me before so i tell him “omg i was just stopped by the ultimate lotion boss and he was schmoozing me just to get me to buy this stuff.”

and i look at mr nice guy’s eyes and he’s seething with anger.

he tells me “i watched you! you were flirting with him! did he ask you for your number?”

me, taken aback “what? no, but i did buy this lotion because i felt bad and didn’t want him to feel like he wasted all that time for nothing. i’m not attracted to him and i wasn’t flirting that’s what people at these kiosks do. it’s their job.”

him “i don’t believe that at all, i watched you, he was all over you and you were just laughing and flirting with him. he was hitting on you and you didn’t stop him.”

me even more confused and thinking this guy must be joking “wtf are you talking about? you just made up a whole story in your head about what just happened over there. why didn’t you walk over instead of creeping in the fake bushes in the fountain if that’s what you are so concerned about?”

him “because you’re lying and i wanted to see what you would do.”

i start to ignore him at this point still thinking he can’t be serious.

i walk into h&m carrying my bag of lotion and he follows me and start looking at some shirts i think are cute.

he is staring me down and i can feel him.

suddenly he shoves me so hard that my purse almost falls off my shoulder and i am left stunned and embarrassed.

i walk out as fast as i can and he follows close behind.

i tell him he’s is a psychopath and i never want to see him again, i get in my car and leave.

mr nice guy proceeds to stalk me for another 2 years after this.

he was a wolf in sheep’s clothing

so much more to this story but that’s just a piece.

so do i think all nice guys are a bad thing? no. but there is always more to everyone underneath the surface. this goes for the nice guy and the bad boy.

i prefer a man somewhere in between, and i think that’s what most women want. a bad boy who is good/nice for them.

Flyguylycan25 · 2021-11-17T16:36:38+00:00

Most nice people are harmless and nice because they don’t love themselves why would people desire you if you don’t desire yourself. Attraction and desirability are heavily effected how you view and carry yourself as it reflected in your aura and actions so pretty and smart girls see through the “niceness” and either are looking for fun or a genuine connection but def won’t want that with you if you don’t love yourself

Inf3rn0_exile · 2021-11-05T02:54:43+00:00

Oh they like nice guys.. but they like nice guys only when those guys are physically attractive. It all comes down to physical attraction.

themostgianthorse · 2021-11-05T02:07:38+00:00

Your last paragraph is good.

KingoftheNorth412 · 2021-11-05T11:48:29+00:00

Stop listening to women for dating advice (if you’re male).

MuertaDeLS · 2021-11-05T08:12:51+00:00

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BillyJayJersey505 · 2021-11-05T13:22:47+00:00

There's more logic than you think. This is coming from a guy's point of view. I'm interested in what the OP thinks of this.

Nice guys are off putting (especially guys who are doormats for everyone)

First of all, there is a distinct difference between a "nice guy" and a good person. A "nice guy" wants something in return for their nice gestures. A good person has the power to not do good deeds and do bad deeds but still chooses to do good deeds and refrain from bad deeds. I would argue that most good men get married and aren't dropped like a bad habit by their spouses. Unfortunately, the dating pool of people who are single is overrun by so many guys that are either scumbags or "nice guys" that it's really difficult to figure out who the good men really are.

Admitted that nice guys (overly charming or sycophantic guys) can still turn out to be abusive

Absolutely. Most women see through them but the ones that take a chance put them in a situation they've rarely been in. They get put to the test and fail. Here's the thing about overtly nice gestures to. How is someone going to react when they don't feel their overtly nice gestures are reciprocated or appreciated? That's when you see the difference between the "nice guy" and good man. It's completely understandable why overtly nice gestures can be seen as red flags.

Guys who tease, challenge them and hold their ground are more interesting to be around

Of course. I don't think anyone wants to be around people that gush over them or put them on a pedestal.

they’re strangely attracted toward mysterious guys, even if they find them slightly creepy. (This is where I fail because i have adhd so I tend to just spill my guts)

Isn't it more more enjoyable to be around someone where you're always learning something new about them? Someone who isn't mysterious isn't mysterious for a reason to. It's because they talk about themselves all the damn time. The mystery makes sense from that perspective.

I would love to see what women think about what I'm suggesting.

arconaut1 · 2021-11-20T15:24:00+00:00

OH MY GOD. As a (22) WOMAN I can tell you that nice guys are a TURN ON. I do not and will not date assholes because I too respect myself. And this goes for almost every female I know! Please please please don’t listen to most of this bullshit in the comments section 🙏🏼

the_root_of_all_evol · 2021-11-05T08:39:30+00:00

just…be yourself. that’s ALL we want, trust me 😩

Kokadison · 2021-11-05T12:11:56+00:00

As a woman, I’ve come across “nice guys” who turn out to be assholes way too often. It’s gotten to the point where, when someone is being nice to me I know there’s going to be a catch to this somewhere.

Also, the teasing and challenging thing is hitting the nail on the head. Me and my boyfriend tease each other beyond belief, but you’ve gotta build up to that. You can’t tease someone like you’ve known them for years right off the bat. Playfully tease them about something that they’re telling you about in a sensible way.

Also, you don’t have to agree to every single thing I ever say. It’s ok to have a little discourse. Of course there’s certain things I won’t accept a disagreement on like human rights and whatnot but you don’t need to like the same color as me, like the same movie, etc etc. I’ve literally come across guys before who agree to everything I say and I can TELL they either have no clue what they’re talking about or just are not into it like they say they are.

recursivePasta · 2021-11-05T04:17:10+00:00

That's why most PUAs are very narcissistic, and most billionaires are not very attractive because they are humble.

How funny is that.

I'm considerably more narcissistic than a few months ago, and it feels fucking goooood.

Mnghao7 · 2021-11-05T03:53:43+00:00

From an actual girl: 1. DON’T BE A CREEP. YOU ARE NOT A “NICE GUY” YOU ARE A CREEP. 2. If you’re in this subreddit looking for dating/hookup advice, stop. 3. If you’re looking for hookup advice, stop. 4. Calling women stupid isn’t going to get you laid.

CenaSmackDown · 2021-11-05T06:28:44+00:00

How dare you not like nice guys. Nice girls are 10x worse they are serial killers

YoDaddy1069 · 2021-11-05T07:02:20+00:00

Good message. The way you described your ideal guy is actually the guy that I try to be. I doubt myself sometimes, so it makes me feel really good that I’m doing the right thing.

Long-Reach-9690 · 2021-11-05T07:34:12+00:00

We put ourselves in the friendzone. Just be direct and confident. Don’t be so self centered. Have fun! Be interested in actually getting to know her. Let her do most of the talking, shut the fuck up!! But no awkward silence. Get her alone and make a move.

Didn’t work out? So! Try it again with a different girl. Learn from your mistakes. Progress not perfection.

anicknameyo · 2021-11-05T09:40:55+00:00

Huge difference between nice guys and truly nice guys. Girls can tell the difference between "he wants to only get in NY oants"-nice and the "he's being respectful "-nice.

Algo2Pete · 2021-11-05T12:31:42+00:00

The nicer you are the farther she runs. What I did was I cut the line and let her loose. I'm generally nice. I flirt but I don't chase anymore. I'll ask for her # and a date. If she says no then I move on. Back to the gym I go.

4bhii · 2021-11-05T12:32:33+00:00

What's girls way of Measuring confidence in guys? How do you know if a guy is confident?

wkwc99 · 2021-11-05T13:27:49+00:00

I've heard girls saying they like mysterious guys, and this makes a lot of sense. I've also heard girls say they like a guy who can make them laugh? So which is it?? You can't possibly be mysterious and dangerous and also make her laugh? I don't get it

AelfredRex · 2021-11-05T13:57:14+00:00

One of the things I learned over my years is that there is a logical progression to romance... lust, like, love. First you lust after each other, start dating to see if you like each other beyond the sexual, then if you like each other to a certain intensity, love occurs. It has to be mutual to progress from one step to the next.

The problem with a lot of guys, especially the young, is that they jump right to love while not realizing that it's just lust. And it's not mutual. This is where a lot of love addiction, crushes, oneitis, etc. comes from. "Nice guys" tend to do this.

There's a few external factors, I think. One, you only see your parents in one of two ways. Either in love or not in love (divorced, fighting, so forth). Even divorced parents are not gonna show lust around their kids if they're dating someone else. So while they will be role models, they don't give a complete picture. And popular media can only show you like or love, not lust, and porn can only show you lust, not the others. Books can portray all three, though, but most is picked up from the visual mediums, so many young men aren't getting the full picture, just fragments of the process, as they mature.

Some will see the steps eventually, but a lot get stuck in the confusion and don't follow the progression, which results in a lot of problems.

xu7 · 2021-11-05T14:06:04+00:00

Wow an actually helpful post here!

charmin_U_2day · 2021-11-05T14:08:14+00:00

I’ve been with my significant other since I was 20 AMA

YetzirahToAhssiah · 2021-11-05T14:18:17+00:00

Yes, a big farce and there's no logic to it.

Which is why a person should never base their self-esteem on how attractive others find them to be.

cunningcaring · 2021-11-05T14:26:37+00:00

Fake news?

Evol_Etah · 2021-11-05T15:08:22+00:00

Perfect. This is easy and doable. Ty. I'll try working in this.

And.. seems super believable. I mean, I like girls the same way as this ig.

spacenuts09 · 2021-11-05T15:40:16+00:00

F*#k me. Not this conversation again lol

DaJosuave · 2021-11-05T15:52:23+00:00

Makes a lot of sense women want morons, that's why 10 years later they will realize they married a moron. lol

ThePherdBeve · 2021-11-05T16:13:02+00:00

Just be true to yourself

Except I am usually a doormat when I'm being myself. This is bullshit

A definite farce with no logic to it

3SidedDie · 2021-11-05T16:29:07+00:00

This was a good read. I'd love to hear what else yall come with

slowblues25 · 2021-11-05T16:31:19+00:00

A girl liked that I was quiet. Called me mysterious cuz I wouldn’t say much at times. OR Respond to certain things.

But in reality I was stuck in my heads trynna think of something to talk about. Y’all have no idea how much anxiety I experience.

Much more with the first girl I tried asking out. Given we’re adults now, I knew her cuz we went to to the Same middle school. (We’re both 26) Didn’t know each other personally tho. But I had to deal with a lot of high anxiety when I would hang out with her.

But to give my thoughts on being a nice guy, this girl didn’t really talk to me much in the beginning.

I mean, She was very sweet and we would talk a lot but at that time I was the super sweet Guy , forgiving.. but it wasn’t until I started acting cold with her that she took a different interest. Went from friend zone to out of the friend Zone. Well sorta we never hooked up because she wanted to settle and pretty much marry. But I was not ready for that given I had made my first attempt to date anyone since freshman year.

there was many red flags 🚩 that held me back from pursuing anything with her. This was a toxic relationship that developed eventually.

I learned a lot about setting my own boundaries and being clear on how you feel and communicating it.

Mauerstrassenheld · 2021-11-05T17:04:17+00:00

Could u further explain the adhd part, since I am also blessed with adhd?:)

SweatyAnReady14 · 2021-11-05T17:14:51+00:00

I really think the whole nice guy thing is a harmful myth That is perpetuated by immature people with not a lot of experience.

First of all, most guys I have met who get a lot of women are genuinely nice and sociable guys. I feel like it’s only in high school where assholes get girls but that’s because everyone is immature and assholes in high school lol. If you still have this problem past high school you might be hanging out with the wrong crowd

apex_pretador · 2021-11-05T19:43:03+00:00

But a reminder to be confident (not arrogant), to be slightly mysterious by not revealing your hand immediately, and to stand up for yourself and not be doormat.

What if this is who you are? Non confrontational and boring.

I'm not arguing or making a point, genuinely want to learn/improve.

self_journey · 2021-11-05T19:56:24+00:00

It's really simple when you think about it:

Be nice to everyone because that's what you want to do not because it's what you think you should do, but don't let people walk over you or mistreat you.

End of story. Anything else is "nice guy" territory or "narcissistic asshole" territory.

watergate_boi · 2021-11-05T21:27:15+00:00

Its helpful sometimes to memorise a list of things that absolutely turn you off about someone, so you're aware to it if it happens and you can call it out (doesn't have to be in a nasty way). You keep true to your values and you won't be a doormat

Lotus_82 · 2021-11-06T04:33:57+00:00

“Nice guys” and “good men” aren’t the same. “Nice guys” befriend women with fake friendship because they don’t have the balls to say what they really want right off the bat, and they’re usually doormats with no personality.

And it’s not really any “bad boys” it’s just that “nice guys” are usually boring and insecure with no personality.

witchyvibes121 · 2021-11-17T01:44:23+00:00

There is a big difference between a “nice guy” and the doormat guy. A nice guy is still confident but not full of himself, will treat you with respect, if he does something wrong he fixes it immediately without hesitation and gaslighting. Men who exhibit all of these qualities are rare, but real. A doormat guy to me is a boring simp who will agree with everything you say (I’m not saying the doormat guys are in any way bad dudes) I have just dated my fair share of doormat guys bc I thought they were so nice and I needed to give them a chance, just ended up bored wherever we went and I couldn’t do it. Big difference. Nice guys may feel like they don’t always win, but they really do in the end.

Mattb05ster · 2021-11-17T11:31:09+00:00

Hahahahaha

FaithInStrangers94 · 2021-11-17T11:32:40+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Auri_anderson · 2021-11-19T04:16:48+00:00

I thought I was dating a nice guy until he showed me who he really was but I thought he would be different from the rest of the guys I dated beforehand (Military). He went to church had a little bit of a nerdy appearance, held the door open etc, but when I really got to know him and even after we broke up he was such a jerk towards me and alot of the women he dated. He didnt want to put a label on our relationship until I assumed so and then once we did have a label everything he used to do he stopped doing. Being on the insecure side he always put himself down about how he wasn't handsome and how the girls he dated were out of his league but then again he told me that he didn't want to date a girl because her face wasn't pretty but still messed around with her but kicked her to the side when she wanted more.

There were plenty of times where he disrespected me and just made me feel bad about myself and only recently he apologized for it. He said that whenever I cried it would make him feel bad so I would have to supress my emotions so he can feel okay but he would become angry with me when I said if something was okay when it really wasn't only because I don't want to make the situation worse then what it already was( bad habit I'm unlearning) I no longer can be emotionally vulnerable with him and I've expressed that but he didn't care and coming from previous emotionally abusive relationships its hard for me to express how i truly feel.

He cheated on three girls blocks away from each other and found it justifiable by saying it was in high school and dated another girl while he knew someone else close to her had feelings for him too. In my opinion I like nice guys but sometimes they can be a wolf in sheeps clothing not all but very few. Maybe they are putting up a front to amend by societies standards of what a guy should be in order to get the girl.

jojoblogs · 2021-11-19T06:15:36+00:00

There’s a big difference between teasing/ banter and being mean. Negging was never a winning strat, but teasing a girl has always been.

And you can challenge a girl without being cunty about it. Telling her she’s wrong and explaining is cunty, but saying “ooh that’s a hot take” “ooh I dunno if we can be friends now” is both teasing and challenging opinions of hers you may disagree with, and isn’t condescending.

HotMilf_Fire · 2021-11-19T21:55:40+00:00

In my opinion and experience... too much talking for no reason.

Real life is simpler: Just Be yourself and you'll match to whom you have to.

Seduction involves cheating in a way you're convincing someone to do something otherwise wouldn't.

But, to be yourself, is not easy,

Valuable-Ant6808 · 2021-11-22T06:58:26+00:00

Most of the comments down there are always bad ...and they're always hidden 👀

Reinathan502 · 2021-12-01T01:43:59+00:00

I had to mature quick from when I was a kid. So I had my ‘nice guy’ phase when I was 12-14 years old. I’m 18 now and can say confidently that it’s the most pathetic feeling on the planet when you choose to be something rather than a nice guy. Wish I didn’t have to go through that but kind of glad I did so I can now tell other people why they really really really shouldn’t.

Ok_Offer_7727 · 2021-12-02T05:41:23+00:00

People pleasers aren't "nice". They're perceived as devaluing themselves in favor of people who have no stake in their well-being. This goes for men and women. "Nice" is code for "mark".

Title	A girls perspective on ‘nice guys’
Author	FaithInStrangers94
Upvotes	988
Comments	189
Date	November 5, 2021 1:35 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/seduction
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/qn084f/a_girls_perspective_on_nice_guys/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/seduction/a-girls-perspective-on-nice-guys.1272950 https://theredarchive.com/post/1272950

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