CMV Many Women claim "a man can be soft" or "a man can cry its no issue" but they don't date those dudes, in fact they date the Guys that would be in the "toxic masculinity" bracket, and this is kinda funny lol

Master-Gene-8382 · 2023-07-14T14:28:21+00:00

As much as people on here love to virtue signal about how good of a person they are that they would never ever in a million years dump someone for something as shallow as them expressing their feelings, overcoming biological processes in your brain that have been formed over millions of years of evolution is not exactly easy. Sometimes they know, sometimes they don’t, either way it doesn’t matter.

Watch what they do, don’t EVER listen to what they say.

quantumpencil · 2023-07-14T15:12:14+00:00

I cry in every vaguely sweet/beautiful film (romance films, ghibli films, pixar films) and when listening to a lot of music. I also cry when something really bad happens in life. I am definitely a sensitive dude that talks about feelings and such a lot and my main hobbies are piano/violin and I rarely see the inside of a gym.

I do just fine. If you're a sensitive guy, learn a musical instrument lol.

Rhinosaur666 · 2023-07-14T16:44:50+00:00

As I always men and women mean two entirely different things by "emotionally vulnerable". Men think it means "I have permission to be pathetic, feel sorry for myself, and wallow in self pity over what a total loser I am" and women think it means "a person who can be comfortable talking about their feelings of love, loss, sadness, anger, etc."

chalkandapples · 2023-07-14T17:20:49+00:00

Being soft isn't the same thing as depressed and mentally weak. It's just a personality and somewhat of a communication style.

I like soft men and my husband is very soft. But I wouldn't be able to manage someone with a lot of mental trauma. In fact my husband is soft because he had a very good childhood and has very little trauma, so his behavior is cheerful, and he's soft because people in his life has always helped and comforted him when he is sad.

I like it because it makes him very easy to live with and communicate with. He will tell me when things make him sad or happy, and what I can or can't do to help. His softness doesn't take away from his competence. I'm also very soft and I might complain and whine that something is hard to do, but after that I get up and do it anyways, or find help if I can't do it alone, because competent adults problem solve.

I don't know why people like to randomly jump from soft/sensitive to mentally unstable and depressed/broken. Softness most often comes from not having a hard shell from trauma.

RatchedAngle · 2023-07-14T14:30:49+00:00

See, this is the problem.

Women say we want a man who can handle his own emotions in a healthy way.

Your dad died and you had a bad relationship with him?

We want you to talk it out instead of playing video games for 12 hours a day. We want you to talk it out instead of getting drunk and mean. Or high. Or coming home pissed off and stomping around the house but refusing to answer whenever someone asks “you okay?”

No woman ever said “I want a man who is mentally weak.” Men made that up.

We want you to be emotionally healthy. Not doing this weird neurotic shit that men do where you have some sort of problem and manifest it as chronic temper tantrums, punching walls, the silent treatment, becoming cold and detached for seemingly no reason, etc.

Sparkling_gourami · 2023-07-14T15:59:38+00:00

I’m sure there a certain women who work that way, but the say all women are like that is completely false. A lot of women really like caring for others and I’ve actually had expressed me in the past by a partner that I didn’t need her emotionally and she felt at the relationship was really unbalanced and she wished I would open up more so the relationship would be more.

If you’re a super depressed man then yeah you’re probably not gonna be able to find a girl very easily but if you’ve been dating a girl for like 2 to 3 years and then you kind of go through a period of depression and she leaves that’s really messed up.

Opening_Tell9388 · 2023-07-14T15:11:11+00:00

This is not true. There are so many happy and normal relationships. We are just on the internet so everything is super fucking extreme and brain dead.

Embarrassed_Work4065 · 2023-07-14T14:24:06+00:00

They don’t mean depressed whiny men.

They mean men who can cry at a sunset.

Nobody likes to be around depression. You have to dig yourself out of that and rely on family and your closest friends.

duenebula499 · 2023-07-14T17:22:11+00:00

Eh idk. I’ve always been an openly emotional dude, but when it’s appropriate and it’s not my whole personality. I’ve cried in front of my current gf of 4 years almost as much as she has in front of me and it’s never really made a difference. It’s also never hindered me in dating before her.

Main-Leek7908 · 2023-07-14T23:47:26+00:00

"Showing your emotions" is not the same thing as being "depressed, soft, [and] mentally weak"

MistyMaisel · 2023-07-14T16:00:19+00:00

Men need to stop conflating emotional weakness with emotional range and vulnerability ASAP. No one wants someone who is emotionally weak or immature. Everyone wants someone who can thread the needle on having strong, diverse feelings and knowing how and when to express them or how and when to apologize for mis-expressing them and how to express appreciation towards your partner for their support and patience. If you want someone who is emotionally weak, you're saying you want someone with the emotional maturity and range of a child. No one has ever said this and if they did, they're probably a predator or very silly themselves.

Dalton4775829 · 2023-07-14T17:26:37+00:00

Women never admit/fully acknowledge the rules of society. They don’t even want to admit they are true. But they sure live their lives by them.

gorne14 · 2023-07-14T18:57:27+00:00

90+% of toxic masculinity is driven by women's preferences for dating and sex

Feminism acknowledges exactly none of this

GlasgaAccentfurYanks · 2023-07-14T16:46:38+00:00

The sensitive man is an ideal hard to attain. In essence people imagine Woverine with the temperament of a monk. Yeah, humans are messy.

q_dice · 2023-07-14T18:44:54+00:00

Yeah I am just going to repeat what I said about this topics adjacent yesterday; I think women empathize, but my question is what are the circumstances they hear about the issues about men being vulnerable? Is it I have known this woman a long time and find I can confide in her or is it Women love vulnerability, and I want her to know I am sensitive, so I am gonna tell/trauma dump on this woman I have known for three days through Reddit, Facebook, MySpace, Kik, TikTok. The reason I bring up the older sites because I am curious cuz most of where this mentality stems from is online.

operation-spot · 2023-07-14T15:39:22+00:00

There’s a difference between active depression and communicating how you feel.

baiser_vole · 2023-07-14T15:42:26+00:00

According to Jordan Peterson, around 10% of both genders naturally have the personality traits of the other gender. So we are saying there are 10% of naturally occurring feminine personality men and 10% of naturally occurring masculine personality women. This is truly a minority of people, but if we are to think about how much the 10% is, we have to admit, it is a pretty significant number.

It definitely is NOT the norm. 10% is a minority. But my boyfriend and I happen to be in this minority group. We wish our son ends up with my personality, and our daughter ends up with his, cause it would make their lives so much easier. But as a naturally masculine woman, I love my soft, feminine and naturally nurturing boyfriend. I would not call him mentally weak necessarily however. There are stressors that he doesn’t deal with too well, but the nurturing nature of his require a great deal of strength imo.

I think the decline of positive masculinity in both men and women are making the current dating issues worse. The small minority of naturally feminine men cannot find a naturally masculine woman, because positive masculinity was ripped away from society in many cultures.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-07-14T16:07:06+00:00

How would you know? I know so many men who are outwardly seen as cold and emotionless who I know to be really quite emotional and very open to expressing that around those they trust. A man who can show his emotions and doesn't feel the need to dominate others is strong and less likely to have emotional issues.

R3PlaaY · 2023-07-14T14:29:28+00:00

well i remember bawling my eyes out to a girl as i explained to her why i have to break up. few weeks have passed and she tells me how she would like to talk again and how she has difficulties moving on. So i think it depends on what youre crying about.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-07-14T22:55:56+00:00

Men are not this one-dimensional. I’ve never dated a guy anywhere on the masculinity spectrum who didn’t show emotion and sometimes get depressed or vulnerable. And some of the most toxic dudes were “soft boys.” Men have a full range of emotions and capacity to be strong, weak, toxic, stable, crazy, macho, depressed, anxious, etc.

PBtoast707 · 2023-07-14T15:39:41+00:00

I didn’t get my first boyfriend until I was 22, so I think that part of my brain matured differently than most people. I’m with a man some would call “Chad.” He has cried to me multiple times. I haven’t got the “ick”, and I haven’t left him after six months like men here said I would. He’s a person with emotions and I’m here to comfort him. He’s one of the greatest things that has ever happened to me. I love him so much. When I know he’s upset, I want to make him feel better.

I guess I have a much more naive and straightforward view of relationships since I’ve only been in one and I started later in life than most people. I just see things how they are, I’m not playing some mental game.

c0pkill3r · 2023-07-14T17:18:29+00:00

It might depend on how they are being a bitch. A guy cried after I took his virginity and it was really hot. I even looked up shit afterwards online about if crying was a kink. It is too. But then another guy cried when I had sex with someone else in front of him and that caused me to lose respect for him and attraction to him. So it's probably not crying or emoting alone but why the guy is crying or emoting. If it's for a dumb reason then it makes sense someone would lose attraction/respect. Most men cry for shallow selfish cowardly reasons.

HighestTierMaslow · 2023-07-14T15:18:16+00:00

So why do I see soft, beta, expressive guys in relationships then?

You men go for toxic women thats your problem- stop going for toxic women (probably wont happen- toxic women are more likely to be obsessive with their appearance and extremely agreeable in the beginning stages of relationships which is what you want) and you'll find women not like this.

Chad_Thundercock717 · 2023-07-14T15:36:02+00:00

Being vulnerable is being able to talk about what's bothering you. Not looking for a shoulder to cry on. It's stupid when a guy is bothered by something his gf is doing, and he posts on reddit about it instead of having a conversation with his gf about it. I used to drink my feelings. I wouldn't confront anything. I'd just go to the bar. I used to date under 21 specifically so she couldn't follow me to the bar.

eye_of_gnon · 2023-07-14T17:10:53+00:00

There's a fine line that most men (and maybe women themselves) don't really realize. They want a man who's sensitive at appropriate times, but doesn't come off as a total wuss. Like, crying at your mother's funeral? Okay. But crying all the time over stupid shit? Cringe.

I do agree that cocky, "toxic", "traditionally tough" men are rarely maidenless, though. Some women complain about how they hate 'jerks like that', but plenty of women do want guys like that.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2023-07-14T15:39:32+00:00

You probably haven't met this man because men don't talk about the inner workings of their relationships with you, especially moments of vulnerability.

lustersi · 2023-07-14T17:14:06+00:00

Yeah women are slow fr. I started treating women like bitches and now I get them without me trying. Surprise surprise. Try being nice and get treated like a friend. Show them how you don’t give a fuck about them and tell them your love intentions they fall in your lap

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esdebah · 2023-07-14T16:20:45+00:00

I'm a weepy emo bitch, I can promise you it's never been an issue and sometimes an asset. Some girls, maybe.

BackAgain12345678910 · 2023-07-14T16:48:27+00:00

What they say they want and what they actually respond to are often worlds apart

Obj3ctivePerspective · 2023-07-14T18:42:40+00:00

Fuck boys are a thing because they are fucking. The term wouldn't exist if women weren't fucking these guys and then getting ghosted. The toxic masculine types are what most womengo for. We live in society where people want excitement over stability. It's common these days for someone to break up because their partner was "boring"

NaturalQueer · 2023-07-14T19:16:12+00:00

My husband struggles with mental health, has cried in front of me, has had panic attacks in front of me, I help him all the time and he is like the opposite of toxic masculinity. We’ve been married for almost 4 years now, none of that stuff ever stopped me from finding him attractive.

Also being sensitive or “soft” emotionally doesn’t mean they can’t have strong traits and vice versa. My husband is “soft” , but he also mountain bikes, builds things, is a runner, stands up for others and will fight for the people he cares about. He is definitely more masculine with a lot of his hobbies and even how he looks. He is also sweet, loves getting flowers, cries at cute Disney movies, loves watching cute animal videos and snuggling with our cats, loves to be silly and goofy with me.

Wanting a vulnerable soft person doesn’t mean not likely strong traits as well, most people are dynamic and multifaceted. And sadly not everyone can handle a partner with depression but that’s not strictly a woman thing, some men leave women because of mental illness too. But lots of men and women stick out relationships even if someone is mentally struggling.

Redditcritic6666 · 2023-07-14T19:22:20+00:00

What my Point is is very simple, especially in feminism day age you will hear following things "i find it attractive if he can show his emotions"

Have to read in between the lines. They only want you to show them positive emotions.

"i dont like dominant man" or any other "i like soft men" label. But Women dont even date those Men, they date Men that are the complete opposite.

In a positive relationship, the couple play different roles for each other depending on the circumstances. The short of it is that they want "dominant men" in cases where being dominant is benefitial i.e. decision making, protection, etc. A man who's too hard/soft or just display these traits in the wrong situation is the problem.

Matter of Fact i HAVENT TO THIS DAY, met a Man that is, depressed, soft, mentally weak that is succesful with women.

That right here. A man who's over egotistic, too mascualine, would get women initually but the relationship won't be healthy. A weak man have zero change with a women to begin with.

Kinda funny, right?

It's more like women don't gernerally know what they want. They are completely obvious to their current situation and have zero awareness for it.

Relative_Bee8356 · 2023-07-14T19:33:50+00:00

Confidence and the ability to handle your own life are universally positive traits, not "toxic masculinity." Being non-dominant or depressed isn't "mentally weak." Like a lot of women, I've been tremendously turned off by bossy behavior from my dates. And lots of softbois with painted nails do in fact clean up.

No one (aside from abusers) goes into dating thinking, "I want to date someone with depression and mental health issues." Some people go into dating thinking, "I want to date someone who understands depression and mental health issues" because they have those problems and want someone who can handle it -- and a lot of the times the people who understand are the people who have the same issues.

And a lot of people simply don't want to put up with that stuff. Men too! Read any thread here in which BPD is mentioned and tell me with a straight face that men en masse give a single shit about female mental health. I've dated the mentally ill and have a pretty firm line that I no longer do that unless they're in treatment. There are good reasons for that rule and I wouldn't blame anyone for having the same one.

Also I've had two boyfriends (current one + an ex) cry on me all the time and it didn't affect my attraction to them one bit. I did eventually dump the ex over it because he had a bad habit of lashing out and refused to seek treatment. I guess he could claim I "left him because he showed an emotion" but he wouldn't because he's smart and self-aware enough to know that's not what happened.

Tevorino · 2023-07-14T20:25:59+00:00

My experience, which includes the things women have told me, is that women are attracted to men who are able to be a "pillar of strength" most of the time. This is also what I, and most men I know, find attractive in women.

There are many ways to be a "pillar of strength" that have nothing do with being muscular, violent, or any of those other traits that get put under the "toxic masculinity" label. I have seldom had a girlfriend's opinion towards me change for the worse as a result of me crying over something, or being "soft" about something, however I also don't cry in a self-pitying, "whining" manner because I was taught, from an early age, not to do that. Like most men, I also have a much higher threshold, for what will make me cry, than the typical woman.

There have been several occasions where I was alone with a woman, and she was whining about how hard life is for her, how the world is against her, etc. It was a turn-off, because I prefer women who are mentally strong, and her physical features and the way it felt to hold her still made me want to have sex with her. In other words I, like most men, have something deep in my psyche that assigns much more weight to physical features than personality, and so a personality that I find unattractive can be outweighed by physical attraction. Most women, on the other hand, seem to assign much more weight to personality, to the point that if a man's personality turns her off, it would be extremely difficult, if not impossible, for his desirable physical features to make up for that.

To summarise, I take women at their word when they say a man can be soft or cry, or that they want a man to be emotionally open; I just take it in the context of a man who is generally a "pillar of strength" and who cries over things like the loss of a loved one, or the plot of a sad movie they are watching together, not over how unfair he thinks the world is for him.

KamuiObito · 2023-07-14T20:57:49+00:00

Abusive men can and still do get pussy so..

Epiphanic_Eros · 2023-07-14T21:27:20+00:00

Women date men who know their desire and pursue it. They date men who respect and appreciate them, and also treat them like sexual toys when that’s what they want. They date men who have the confidence to know themselves and their weaknesses, but don’t make a big deal about it. They date men who can cry at a sad movie, or the death of their grandmother, or because they’re having a vulnerable conversation without blaming and victimizing.

Nobody really likes someone who is stewing in resentment, or constantly self-sabotaging, except other people stewing in resentment

gorne14 · 2023-07-14T21:27:37+00:00

Bro, there is a BIG difference between being vulnerable, emotional and being able cry in front of the other sex and being "soft and mentally weak". That you mix those things together is absurd and shows that you are not in a mindset to date seriously, cause to be serious with someone is to show vulnerability and everyone in a decent serious relationship will agree with that.

Also, I'm that guy. I'm emotional, vulnerable, I cry in front of women, I'm not afraid to show my feelings and I've always had it very easy with women. Hooking up at parties has never been my thing, but I know if people got to know me a bit there is a fair chance they would want to be in a relationship with me. Because this way of handling my emotions is seen as a more mature approach than hiding it all in. And unless you're thinking of random hookups, where first impression is the most important and stuff like emotional maturity doesnt matter - you cant be further from the truth. Emotional availability is sexy and most women looking for more than a hookup would agree with me on that

Mentathiel · 2023-07-14T21:32:05+00:00

Go make a poll on r/AskWomen about how many of them have had partners who were depressed/anxious/cried in front of them/whatever else you think is unacceptable and how long those relationships lasted.

I personally had an ex who was depressed and cried in front of me many times, bawled his eyes out like a baby when his dog died. He was open about that stuff from the beginning. We were together for almost 7 years.

My current bf is also quite vulnerable.

I suspect a lot of women would tell you similar stories if you asked. You don't have to ask what they prefer. Ask about their history, judge their behavior.

riceweight · 2023-07-15T01:12:38+00:00

My guy is definitely a person that gives off “frat bro” vibes if you spend maybe 10 min with him. But spend an hour with him and he starts talking philosophy. Spend a couple hours with him and he’ll talk about God. Spend 1.5 years with him and he’ll open up about the traumas that no one knows of besides me.

I feel honored that he trusts me with his full range of emotions — I’ve seen him cry, I’ve seen him cocky and suave, I’ve seen him everything in between. I’ve heard him talk about his demons, his weaknesses, and I admire him so much every time he’s vulnerable to me.

I’ve broken up with guys for being whiny. I’ve broken up with guys for being emotionally constipated. This is the first guy I’ve met who is in touch with his emotions, can communicate them, and also does not let them control him.

So yes. You see him on the street, he’s a frat bro. You see him drink, he’s a frat bro. You see him with me, he’s everything.

Natt_Katt02 · 2023-07-15T01:52:39+00:00

Being able to communicate or express emotions doesn't mean you're depressed, "mentally weak" etc don't get it twisted

xdivinex22 · 2023-07-15T05:50:05+00:00

Yeah man. You nailed it. Every man knows this. Women do too, I think? I don’t know why they lie to themselves. We all notice it exactly how you describe. If you’re “soft” and cry around women she WILL look at you as weak. Don’t listen to what they say.

itm4l2000 · 2023-07-15T06:29:11+00:00

Yep, telling her you only wanna see her once a month at peak fertility so you can raw dog her and struggle to pull out because she is so hot always works. Stay toxic 💪

UnsaughtDroog · 2023-07-15T11:49:22+00:00

" Matter of Fact i HAVENT TO THIS DAY, met a Man that is, depressed, soft, mentally weak that is succesful with women. "

I think the idea is women are attracted to men who are masculine but can also express a feminine side like being self-aware, in tune with their emotions, being vulnerable, etc.

I wouldn't say any of that makes you weak. What makes you weak is losing your temper, taking it out on everyone around you, and refusing to get help.

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