CMv : Modern times are not raising women’s standards, it’s revealing standards that were always there

WilliamWyattD · 2023-07-24T13:08:07+00:00

The saying is that biology keeps culture on a leash. But the nature/nurture dance is an intricate one. Moreover, while the sexuality of both genders is impacted by environment and socialization, the evidence suggests that women's is more influenced than men's simpler and more robust sexuality.

The core of the OP's message has some truth, but he is wrong to be so certain that women's standards have not changed and cannot be changed. I am sure they have. Exactly how is hard to say. It is a truism that women are more sexually selective than men, especially in terms of what generates pure arousal. But HOW much more, and how hardwired, remains unclear. Furthermore, the line between attraction and arousal is not a clear divide, and everything is far more connected and complex than many believe.

Jazzlike-Actuary-99 · 2023-07-24T11:19:46+00:00

Women have properly always been attracted to the same thing, but more of them finding it realistic and reasonable to achieve it seems like a new phenomonon. I am not just thinking about something like height and income level, but also the laundry liste of requirements that some women seem to have.

But I am not decrying the development as such. Women can do whatever they want. Their choice. Although some of them properly could use a reality check.

13choppedup2chopped · 2023-07-24T12:17:14+00:00

There’s a character in Pride and Prejudice who is a low born woman. She winds up marrying some privileged or rich guy who is dull and short. She winds up telling the main character, “I have a good thing here, yea my husband is dumb and we have no romance, but I’m eating good.”

In modern times, that relationship just never exists. Mr. Collins becomes a rich incel and charlotte just never settles. She probably hooks up with her own Mr Darcy from time to time. But in reality, women have been always clear, this is marriage thing is a deal.

nonplussedminus · 2023-07-24T16:01:57+00:00

Health and genetic fitness are timeless and always win.

Pathosgrim · 2023-07-24T13:31:01+00:00

Its a case of nature and nurture. That standards were always there and they will continue to increase.

PMmeareasontolive · 2023-07-24T16:42:12+00:00

Women are easily influenced. So are men. With social media you have new weird aesthetic standards like women trying to emulate waifu elves or the extreme bimbo-ification of women that is just accepted like it's normal (lip injections, weird tortured eyebrows, french nails, breast implants, now butt padding or something?, etc).

Or do women just do those things "for themselves"?

Sweet_Reflexion · 2023-07-24T19:57:24+00:00

women are not so easily influenced or brainwashed into finding specific things about men attractive.

No, not easily, but it happens. Modern times have indeed seen a push for greater gender empowerment, which allows women to choose partners based on genuine emotional connections and shared values. Its not that women are attracted to a large amount of men, its more that their attraction requirements vary greatly from woman to woman. What modern times has done is encourage a more open and liberated approach to dating and partnerships, where individuals can focus on mutual compatibility and happiness.

Preme2 · 2023-07-24T12:13:34+00:00

I think standards have increased.

Every once in a while you will see debates on Twitter regarding Red Lobster and Olive Garden. “Middle tier” restaurants that were beloved back in the day. People had birthday and anniversaries there. Those establishments were celebration stops. People were more than happy to go there.

Today, Red Lobster and Olive Garden are seen as meh. Decent for take out but nothing special. I don’t think those places have changed much, it’s that people’s standards have increased. People are able to travel and spend money at the best restaurants in the world. People can go to LA, NY or even go to Europe and eat at high end places there. The middle tier restaurants are no longer impressive.

To bring it back to the dating landscape, women in the past were content with their choice. Today, women have had better. They’ve dated far above their league and become upset when they can’t establish long term relationships with those men. I think the RP calls it pair bonding. It’s more difficult to do so.

Watch a teenager get their first car. Most are just happy to be riding around on 4 wheels. At 16 they are in rare territory at their school. A beat up Honda is exclusive. At 26 you think a woman wants to drive a beat up Honda? Lol she wants the luxury BMW. Her standards have risen.

Clementinequeen95 · 2023-07-24T12:48:29+00:00

It’s simple- women have never had the amount of autonomy we have today. We no longer need a man in order to live a successful life. Prior generations had to. Since women don’t need anyone they’re no longer going to settle.

huhwhatokok · 2023-07-24T12:17:01+00:00

“I believe women are not so easily influenced or brainwashed into finding specific things about men attractive” like it didn’t take k-pop for women to find certain Asian men attractive lmao. Women are easily influenced that why marketing companies pay for to market to women rather than men because it’s more profitable.

caption291 · 2023-07-24T12:24:21+00:00

I think I understand the spirit of what you are trying to say...but I think you are using the word standards wrong.

"Women's desires were always the same but now that women have more freedom, their standards reflect their desires" Would make way more sense. I still disagree with it, tough.

There's not much point in arguing with a position I don't even know if you are making so I won't.

macone235 · 2023-07-24T20:58:25+00:00

I disagree. I think if you're locked in a closet you're going to have different standards if you're in a night club every night.

With that being said, I would agree with the idea that the capability has always been there. It was just artificially suppressed with the institution of traditional marriage by the matrix so that society could thrive.

With there being less need for men in the workforce due to the rise of automation, there is simultaneously less need for men to be with women.

WYenginerdWY · 2023-07-25T00:55:36+00:00

I thought I agreed with this based on the title, but the text was an entirely different story.

You've made "the standards that were always there" entirely about physical attraction while completely ignoring that women used to be compelled to stay with men who raped them, harmed them, cheated on them, or otherwise behaved in some heinous/undesirable fashion.

Women didn't want to be married off to ethically gross dudes who would harm them, but there wasn't much of a choice for many pre-feminism.

Billsandasonom · 2023-07-24T15:08:11+00:00

Women are heavily influenced by trends and preselection and status. What brings groups of women to swarm around a man is often two things. He's the tallest of a group of men and the well-adjusted extrovert type, and/or he already has a woman high on the chain or women around him who clearly like him.

On a different note, I know a lot of women - very few of them are perpetually single, and very few of the men are chads. If they are single, it's usually temporary. So either these women are settling or they are actually attracted to and chose these men. According to a lot of people, this wouldn't make sense since women have the luxury of waiting all day for their tall dark and handsome.

gate18 · 2023-07-24T17:49:36+00:00

On the other hand I think society has loled men into thinking the world hasn't change.

I think the tall dark and handsome description has been forever true

Yet tons of average-hight and light skinned are in relationships. It's like saying tall blonds with big boobs has been forever true but most men do not have tall big-boobed gfs or wifes

Men are being tricked. They are being told how things should be not how things are, and that is the problem.

Salt_Mathematician24 · 2023-07-24T21:08:25+00:00

To a certain extent however I believe women are sometimes just as confused as to what they like as men are. We grow up inundated in approaches from men, an already well-established picture of what men like and try to emulate that so much that we don't actual get chance to look inward on what we actually like until much later, if we're lucky.

Special-Possession44 · 2023-07-24T22:57:04+00:00

"Modern times are not raising women’s standards, it’s revealing standards that were always there"

True. it is also revealing the reason why there were so many childless relationships in the past like marie antoinette (the first few years). its either a deadbedroom or the woman was not attracted enough to the man to achieve orgasm during sex with him, as orgasm and lubrication is necessary for pregnancy:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3947082/

RoseTinted64 · 2023-07-25T00:42:02+00:00

I agree! Great perspective.

alexaxl · 2023-07-25T03:48:54+00:00

Lol!

So, Harem Hypergamy made visible by mental delusional entitlements?

This-Adhesiveness-52 · 2023-07-25T07:24:35+00:00

Why keep on trying to get these high standard women. There tons of cheap good looking hookers that do anything to make you happy. Spending time with these high standard women is a waste of time, they are difficult to please, make you spend money on them you never gonna get any appreciation back. Why would any of these women deserve a high value man that has high status, big bucks and good looks?

Yes if they could women would only date the top 20% of men who have it all. The status, the looks, the money, power etc... mr grey, etc.. the closest they ever gonna get is if these men want some play time, they date these women who adore them, use them and then get rid off them when they get to old.

The problem is that most women are delusional, they are not intelligent enough to realize that the men they all adore and want are wanted by all women, that therefore these men have lots of options and therefore will never settle for any women.

These men behave like assholes, use women and dump them. Women keep complaining that all these men are shit but keep chasing the same kind of these men, winners, high succesful men, big money makers, good looks etc.. this is just the type of men they want, lots of women are hardwired to only be attracted to these type of men and keep chasing and getting used untill they get to old and the type they want doesn’t give a shit about them anymore.

The smart women know that if they want a happy life they better get a regular guy that doesn’t have options in abundance, the dumb women keep chasing the high value men untill they get old and then still rather stay alone then settle for less. It’s a sad world. The good thing is that the young women can see what happens over time with women that have these delusional high standards, they end up broke, childless and alone, divorced and angry, growing bitter with time knowing they can’t compete with the young galls anymore. 😅

Yongaia · 2023-07-24T14:21:03+00:00

No, their standards definitely rose. Women did not demand you have a nice car, 6 figure paying job, big house etc back in the day because those things simply didn't exist for most people. Their standards raised with the times as material standard of living increased. That's why western women are notoriously much harder to date and act much more entitled than those from poorer countries.

The reverse can also happen. But it takes time for people to be humbled by a loss of material status.

beleidigtewurst · 2023-07-24T12:37:03+00:00

I believe ~~women~~ humans, although they are ~~are not so~~ easily influenced or brainwashed, *cannot be brainwashed into * changing own instincts

FTFY.

I think that the physical standard for attraction and arousal has always been higher

Gender with monumentally higher parental investment (years vs minutes for men) is pickier about random bang-bangs.

"Standards" is just a shiny packaging for "women have a much much much lower libido, than men". (and please, don't tell me how "women also can be horny". yes, they can, but average women is nowhere at an average levels of horniness)

gopher_glitz · 2023-07-24T12:52:05+00:00

For countless generations most men didn't reproduce. A minor of men got all the women. Then society informed pair's for such a long time but it's clear how many women are okay with being some high ststus man's mistress than to go out and find a regular single man.

TheRedPillRipper · 2023-07-24T11:51:12+00:00

women are quite rightfully free to only be with people

Who want to be with them. High calibre men are rare. So have options. Only one however, gets locked down. That’s the reality women face. It’s also what TRP encourages. Hell most men don’t even need to be high calibre. Having a career, a home and some well rounded hobbies is plenty. To provide men decent choices.

The standards have always been widely accepted. Which is why TRP works. It’s also why women can try as hard as they like, to lock down a high calibre man. That man however, has all the choice.

Godspeed and good luck!

Spare-Estimate5596 · 2023-07-25T00:17:46+00:00

Women were never able to fuck who they want without consequences before. They always wanted chad and BBC

Larry-Man · 2023-07-24T23:05:36+00:00

Hot take: women haven’t had a choice until the last few years. You couldn’t get a credit card without a husband until like the 80s. Women are finally getting a say in what they want from a partner.

And spoiler: while tall dark and handsome is in fact a thing, many women like slender men, shorter men etc. Its you’re god damn personalities and entitlement that make so many men unappealing.

Nihi1986 · 2023-07-24T15:58:52+00:00

Only going to challenge one thing here: 'people who make them happy'.

I have almost never seen a woman happy with her partner not matter how much he apparently meets those standards and, in fact, those who seemed to date with reasonable standards seem considerably happier.

SnooCupcakes9990 · 2023-07-24T22:45:10+00:00

My question is, what happens when these women are no longer attractive?

Biologically, women age faster than men... just look on Tinder at women over 30. Most of them are not attractive. Some are, but that's the minority.

Excellent-Yam409 · 2023-07-24T23:47:03+00:00

Women aren't second class citizens anymore. We actually don't have to put up with being disrespected anymore.

Ok_Cycle225 · 2023-07-25T10:24:38+00:00

Women just need to be less picky imo. Like having some preferences are fine as everyone has them to be physically attracted. But then you get shit like

must be ambitious

What does this shit mean? $50k/year? $100k/year? It's just so vague. Or then you get shit like

must be into Netflix or a gamer

Like wot. You can have separate interests. I understand having common interests is always a good starting point but you aren't clones of each other. You have your own interests in life.

I wouldn't reject a woman because she had an interest in gardening whereas I haven't. But it seems women will do that these days for men. And that's why they became single cat ladies.

Just stop being so picky and give men a chance.

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According-Dinner-406 · 2023-07-25T19:46:56+00:00

Men are doing fine.

Incel men aren't.

Training-Camp-5941 · 2023-07-25T21:39:29+00:00

Hundreds of years ago the average man was only 5'5". Are you implying that back then women only found the top 0.1% of men in height attractive and were just "putting up" with the men that were available due to the patriarchy?

Title	CMv : Modern times are not raising women’s standards, it’s revealing standards that were always there
Author	Cjaylyle
Upvotes	89
Comments	180
Date	July 24, 2023 11:08 AM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1587jr3/cmv_modern_times_are_not_raising_womens_standards/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/cmv-modern-times-are-not-raising-womens-standards.1226319 https://theredarchive.com/post/1226319

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