I believe autism is a bigger death sentence for your romantic prospects then looking ugly

wtknight · 2023-07-31T14:59:34+00:00

Flaired CMV as this post is making an affirmative claim

Master-Gene-8382 · 2023-07-31T14:15:43+00:00

Yeah I tend to agree, if you’re “ugly” you can compensate by still being funny and outgoing and someone that people generally want to be around. Not saying autistic people can’t be that, but it’s much harder/rarer.

I also think a lot of incels don’t consider this as being a major reason for their failure. Elliot Rodger is a prime example. Most people talk about how he wasn’t that bad looking (which is true) but rarely mention the fact that you can tell he’s on the spectrum after listening to him talk for more than 10 seconds.

Eater0fChildren · 2023-07-31T14:20:20+00:00

Social skills and social circle are some of the most important factors for men finding mates. Most men who struggle with dating aren't in environments where they can naturally socialize with women. This creates a cascading effect in which their social skills deteriorate and they never learn how to talk to women.

GoblinModeMedia · 2023-07-31T15:23:33+00:00

This is a HUGE societal issue. I feel like if you’re attractive and autistic, people are inclined to have more patience because of how you’re perceived. If you’re ugly and on the spectrum, forget about it. People will think you’re rude, toxic etc. it will be a lot of work, but luckily society is slowly starting to confront ableism. People just have to stop and think like, “maybe he’s not mansplaining cause he’s rude, maybe it’s a lack of understanding social cues” or maybe “this person might not mean to be rude, rn, maybe their brain is different” we all just need more patience, less judgement and less assumptions.

-AvatarAang- · 2023-07-31T15:38:16+00:00

I probably have autism, but my social skills are improving over time. As a result of reading books on socializing, and also reflecting on it myself. Autistic people have to become aware of the existence of social cues, and to start learning how to read them. Humans are books, and autistic people need to learn how to read a "human book". Not simply interact with them while only listening to the words they use, but to also make assumptions based on their body language primarily, and secondarily their style of dress and other concrete aspects of themselves. When I interact with people, I look directly at their face and body now. Not staring at something else like I used to. I try really hard to understand what their body language tells me about their internal state.

I used to think so many social conventions were a waste of time, like the "bro handshakes" that guys greet eachother with. I thought these made no sense, and were just a formality. I understand now that these greetings convey information about the other person's state of being, and establish a bond between two people through physical touch. I like handshakes now, and don't view them as pointless. The difficulty is knowing which handshake to perform, since it's never explicitly agreed on beforehand.

It's also important to be confident, rather than show nervousness. A small amount of nervousness can be cute, like on a date. But if the nervousness becomes excessive, it makes the other person feel nervous too (our emotions automatically begin to mirror the emotions of the people we interact with, something I learnt from a book) and that's when the atmosphere becomes awkward.

Get out of your "head". Social situations should not be overanalyzed. It should be intuitive. Interactions should be navigated through feeling. That's how I imagine women do it, and women are better socializers than men. I don't think women analyze, they just feel their way through any interaction: does this person make me feel safe, does this conversation feel interesting, and so on. I feel like that is probably the key: when you let go of analyzing, and trust your feelings to guide you.

Practice socializing in settings where you won't ever see that person again. Be okay with embarassing yourself. Remember that your reputation won't be affected since you won't likely see those people again. Learn how to be uninhibited. Speak your mind genuinely, while still being tactful.

So yes, autistic behaviors are a death sentence for dating. But through conscious effort, some autistic people can learn to decrease those behaviors and thus socialize better.

meteorness123 · 2023-07-31T17:49:07+00:00

I agree. The only guys that are see struggling to attract any romantic partner at all always have some mental issue. It's either neurodiversity or severe trauma.

eeekkkgg · 2023-07-31T17:01:32+00:00

True. Most "ugly" people date. Most people with autism don't date.

Tramelo · 2023-07-31T20:00:20+00:00

Everyone blames social skills but nobody looks at the reason why autists lack social skills. It's because we're fundamentally different people who like doing different things. So even if we learn social skills, we will struggle connecting with people.

EdwardTheeMasterful · 2023-07-31T15:19:05+00:00

Perhaps society should be more tolerant and understanding of individuals with handicaps. But this is yet another way I can see how dating is again harder for men than for women. If you took two male and female with the same attributes and the male is worse off. Yet people say neither has it worse than the other or better and it’s the same to sound politically incorrect when the writing is on the wall since the dawn of mankind.

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redditsuckspokey1 · 2023-07-31T20:22:04+00:00

Pretty much sums up my life. I have autism and am 37. Parents kept me from knowing until I was 30.

harmonica2 · 2023-07-31T15:53:59+00:00

I'm autistic and have an autistic girlfriend. Is that the best hope for autistic guys perhaps?

Nihi1986 · 2023-07-31T16:08:23+00:00

I know an autistic guy who has a different gf every month...the guy is 18 and I honestly don't know how he manages that, I don't even think he's attractive but clearly he is, otherwise it wouldn't make sense.

Also know two autistic girls who have had lots of boufriends and hook ups but being women...I'm not surprised.

I don't disagree with your claim, though, being autistic is hell for many things, dating included.

throwaway316stunner · 2023-07-31T18:44:27+00:00

As an 32-year old autistic man, I have never been in a relationship nor have I ever had sex.

At least I’m in the 10% that’s actually employed? Though for how long, and would I ever be able to find a different job, are two entirely different questions…

plastic-bleach · 2023-07-31T14:38:17+00:00

When citing autism statistics you have to remember that they’re skewed by the divisions between low-functioning/high-functioning individuals. You probably went to school with or have worked with a high-functioning autistic person who is mostly normal, and might have some extra problems dating but it‘a totally possible for them.

Now if you’re considering a non-verbal adult, who can’t live alone, refuses to wear a shirt, and spends all day running around screaming… obviously they aren’t fucking anyone

lacuti3 · 2023-07-31T14:06:54+00:00

I’ve always said any decent-looking guy could get a girlfriend as long as he’s not too annoying (autistic)

Cool_Ranch_2511 · 2023-07-31T14:18:12+00:00

Actual diagnosed autistic men still is around 1%, which is an insignificant segment of the overall population. There are way more people self diagnosing and armchair psychiatrists making it look like autism is widespread when it's not.

educateddrugdealer42 · 2023-07-31T15:33:44+00:00

As a counterexample: I'm an (undiagnosed, but 95% certain) high functioning autist, and while I have a 15 year delay in my career due to depression, which caused me to fail my first attempts at higher education, I am highly educated, gainfully employed and have had a girlfriend for 7 years, and before that had a few other relationships and several one night stands. I have made enormous efforts to teach myself social skills, though, and my youth was pretty horrible.

I don't mean to take away from your message, things are pretty bleak as an autist, but there is hope.

6DT · 2023-07-31T19:04:57+00:00

tone: emphatic, open

For ~~men~~ everyone on the spectrum, it is absolutely brutal.

Fixed. Although I contend that all diagnosable neurological differences are brutal not just autism. Most people won't even live with a schizophrenic roommate they hate or fear schizo people that much. Neurominorities have it really fuckin' bad.

high functioning

Most of the autistic community does not use this phrasing anymore, calling it ableist, and use "low support needs" or "high masking" instead. "Support needs" gained traction within medical community as well, and use L1/L2/L3 in direct reference to level of support needs when diagnosing

90% of autistic men are unemployed

Debunked. This is the schizophrenic unemployed percentage. Unemployed autism is a very close 85%. Autism is even more unemployed than blind people which is crazy to think about. Even with sight aides for not-totally-blind that disability seems way more of a hindrance than autism.

44.6%... are virgins

Asexuality is a part of this, but the number is still too high because some aces are still slightly sexual (demi, grey, cupio, etc)

69%... ASD adolescents want relationships, but fail

I thought this was debunked too? (rather, "over"proven) That the number is actually just under 90%?

"Autism is mostly a male phenomemon" is debunked; instead of 4:1 male:female it's currently estimated at 3:4 female majority.. There's actually huge numbers of misdiagnosis as bipolar for autistic women, if diagnosed at all. Last estimate was 80% misdiagnosis?

"Nonetheless, girls with autism were just as impaired, or more impaired, in their social and communication skills...Boys and girls have similar problems with understanding social situations, but girls are more likely to try to control or successfully their behavior in public... Girls and women may be more able to master ‘camouflaging’ ..."

So if we could just update our language to include the autistic women as suffering the same way, nobody can really argue with the claim that our ableist society fucks over autistic people as bad as or even worse than ugly people.
Unmasking Autism by Devon Price should be read by everybody with autism.

Favorite quote: "Though masking is incredibly taxing and causes us a lot of existential turmoil, it’s rewarded and facilitated by neurotypical people. Masking makes Autistic people easier to “deal” with. It renders us compliant and quiet. It also traps us. Once you’ve proven yourself capable of suffering in silence, neurotypical people tend to expect you’ll be able to do it forever, no matter the cost. Being a well-behaved Autistic person puts us in a real double bind and forces many of us to keep masking for far longer (and far more pervasively) than we want to."

KayRay1994 · 2023-07-31T14:20:00+00:00

absolutely not - it isn’t a “death sentence” as the issue is more tied into, especially in the past, a lack of a support system and a general lack of inclusivity. Autistic men who know how to at least ride the line and have some control over it tend to as well as anyone else - hell, some things like the special interests and hyperfocus could actually benefit you.

There are tons of resources that are individual and group therapy driven that can help you control/direct your autism. They focus a lot on learning how to emotionally respond and at least figure out how to perceive things. Its certainly a much tougher route than neurotypical men, but it is 100% doable and if you do commit to the help/support you might even end up learning a lot of things neurotypical people don’t even know

Khanluka · 2023-07-31T16:53:23+00:00

O yea i have autism and the everyone woman i have dated for +2 months can never shut up about how attractive i am. Yet They never want to be with me in the longterm.

LovesGettingRandomPm · 2023-07-31T16:59:08+00:00

these are pretty wide general subjects youre comparing neither autism alone or attractiveness alone have anything to say about the success of an autist person

These studies may show you what is common but they don't tell you the exact reason in each situation, nor does it tell you anything about the people who did make it, maybe those had other means there are plenty exceptions for all so if you're looking at this full of doom and gloom know that you don't have to be a number and if you are a number know that you're unique

Lazyhermit96 · 2023-07-31T19:59:42+00:00

i hit a double whammy of being both ugly and autistic

Silly-Sun-7098 · 2023-08-01T07:37:46+00:00

This is the only blackpill ish claim I can get behind. Autism is different in each person tho so it’s difficult to make a straight claim and some people you won’t even be able to tell unless they volunteer the information. I still wouldn’t say it’s a death sentence tho, autistic men and women tend to date each other and some of them can develop social skills with with pick up artistry

Primary-Ant1258 · 2023-08-01T10:31:36+00:00

People wondered if I was. 🤷 I'm just socially awkward and have trauma issues though. I've wondered about it for a while

Tomridddle · 2023-08-01T14:52:08+00:00

This reminds me of a case study I was reading about. It was about a young man who had tried to commit suicide multiple times because he realised that only a bleak future awaits him. He was very self aware and that’s why he suffered. Some autistic people constantly blame shift and develop a narcissistic personality to help cope with reality. Unfortunately from him , he was too self aware and intelligent to do that. He also didn’t even have any of the super bad austistic traits like meltdowns, egocentrism and being accidentally rude.

We, humans are naturally social creatures. It’s literally one of maslow hierarchy of needs. It seems cruel to create someone who isn’t properly able to do that. I would say it’s the closest equivalent to being born with sin.

MistyMaisel · 2023-07-31T16:19:46+00:00

We need a working definition of autism because someone who is high-functioning or has received therapeutic intervention will not struggle as much as an ugly person would.

We also probably aren't generally speaking of low-functioning people like one of my relatives who will need life-long care because his autism has made him that dysfunctional. They should be struck from the entire conversation because they're super unlikely to have even tried to enter the dating world and if they did, of course their chances of finding a relationship with someone are near to zero as anything could be.

We also shouldn't be including people who have no formal diagnosis. Social awkwardness, shyness, introversion, anxiety, or simply just being selfish are not autism. Autism comes with many other factors that most of the people claiming to be Aspie or Autists do not have. They just want to medicalize very normal human struggles so that they can say this isn't their fault. As if there are not plenty of autistic people who overcome these issues every day.

We are basically exclusively talking about people who are somewhere near the middle or have never received therapeutic intervention (please note, many refuse to get diagnosed or go to therapy, so this isn't entirely on society). Do I think this would be worse for their prospects than being ugly? YES. Of course, but in order for everyone to accept that, they are overtly admitting that looks are not the most important factor in romantic relationships. Which I agree with, so it is no trouble for me to say that a mental disability which influences how you socialize, connect, and have relationships would be incredibly detrimental to finding a relationship, especially one of the more perilous kinds like romance.

Does this mean it is over? No. It just means you're going to have to work way harder to get it if it's something you really really want.

LoneStranger87 · 2023-07-31T14:37:34+00:00

Why do you believe autistic women do better in the sexual market place?

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-07-31T15:42:18+00:00

Interestingly men with ADHD tend to lose their virginities younger and have more sexual partners than even neurotypical men. Because they are more impulsive

InjectAdrenochrome · 2023-07-31T16:16:34+00:00

I think the blackpill should include autistic guys since it is a part of genetics.

antariusz · 2023-07-31T16:02:16+00:00

Treat learning women and dating like you'd attempt to learn any other system. It can work. I was a virgin until 25, but reading books like "the game" and spending a lot of time reading seduction forums and actually attempting to put the knowledge to the test eventually worked for me.

NOTE: If you're an unemployed slob living in your mom's basement, this will not work for you. Learn to adult first.

Scotchperson · 2023-07-31T16:29:30+00:00

As someone with ASD who would be considered above average in looks, i’m never bullied in school, but I am definitely not popular either, I’ve had plenty of girls ask me out (I’ve said no each time, high school relationships are asinine) I’m just fairly quiet. I’m pretty high functioning to the point where I can pass for ‘normal’ (whatever that is) and I’ve had fair academic success, nothing amazing, but I’m passing my classes. I’m just wondering why people treat autistic people so negatively once they know that they’re autistic. i personally think it’s the societal alienation that we have to endure if we aren’t perceived to be normal that drives some of us crazy, along with the lack of support systems. Personally I don’t want a relationship until I’m far older. (30s)

stupiduselesstwat · 2023-07-31T23:03:51+00:00

Hi! Austistic ADHD woman here. Autistic Women have it almost as bad as men when it comes to dating and relationships. Partly, I think, because both autism and ADHD are underdagnosed in females, and hey, we can’t figure out social cues either.

obviousredflag · 2023-07-31T15:38:27+00:00

The only way to argue with that is that you didn't define ugly. There certainly are points on the uglyness spectrum where a non-ugly autist would pull ahead.

2023-07-31T18:22:18+00:00

I think this explains a lot of the redpill tbh

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-07-31T20:22:33+00:00

I do agree, autism and lack of social skills in general is much more of a hindrance. That being said, improving one’s looks as an autistic person is very important, it will improve people’s overall perception of you and help with social opportunities.

2023-07-31T20:37:06+00:00

Whats crazy autistic women are not nearly as effected.

ashleyrose56 · 2023-08-01T13:57:36+00:00

Why is this sub so obsessed with autism?

Is obvious that lacking social skills, missing subtle cues and low empathy is going to seriously affect dating.

2023-08-01T14:58:07+00:00

Hard disagree. if you aren't physically attractive enough your personality and life WILL NEVER MATTER.

I'm 4ft2 and have never once had a girl try to get to know me or just treat me as an equal.

Critical_Lettuce2899 · 2023-07-31T14:37:15+00:00

No it isn't for high functioning autistics , stop coping and take TRP

duenebula499 · 2023-07-31T14:38:16+00:00

well I mean, for ugly people the solution is just dating even uglier people, would the same not kinda apply here? Smaller market but it should work in theory.

DoinIt989 · 2023-07-31T18:14:57+00:00

Most people with autism are non-verbal and/or unable to live as independent adults. Dating should be the last thing they worry about.

High functioning autism is not as big of a deal. Using statistics for "people with autism" ignores the fact that most of them are way low on the functioning scale, it does not apply to men on the functional side of the spectrum

Psyteratops · 2023-07-31T17:13:16+00:00

The majority of higher functioning autistic people ARE capable of learning social skills if they actually tried. The issue with autistic young men is that they are being preyed upon by an ideology that they are extremely susceptible to.

Notice all the pills and Incel ideology are heavy on categorization as a form of simplification. Take note that regardless of what your taste in hyper fixation is this ideology will create a niche. Gamification? You got PUAs. Anthropology? You’ve got people talking about the Chad skull shape. Data analytics? Please pour over these studies that confirm your biases.

Indoctrination into this ideology is a double edged sword. You’ve given up- you cannot change- the problem is inherent in you. It’s crippling and depressing yes BUT with that you don’t have to KEEP trying. To push through your limitations and be pursue something bigger than yourself. Believe me I’ve known plenty of people who would rather die than face themselves and their potential. In fact two of the men in this picture did just that. Cowards that they were they took the easy way out. Meanwhile having watched tape of them I can without a doubt say they were their own biggest obstacles.

Make change where you can- get away from this brain rot. Chances are you’ll be right-o in a few years (or less) of intentional change.

basedmama21 · 2023-07-31T22:41:34+00:00

Love on the Spectrum can prove otherwise. Awesome show

splunx · 2023-08-01T05:52:56+00:00

Only 3 percent of both men and women are autistic. It doesn’t make a difference.

jssjsii · 2023-08-01T07:00:01+00:00

This is such a stupid statistic. ASD includes people who can barely function so it’s not surprising 60% fail or whatever.

Larry-Man · 2023-08-01T00:17:36+00:00

The problem is that no one teaches autistic men how to behave socially because no one teaches anyone that shit. I’m a woman and my peers browbeat me into being “normal” whereas the toxic traits of men seem to be ramped up to 11 in some spectrum men. I’ve seen it a lot when I worked at a game store. They would talk my ear off with no consideration, no one teaches them that other people have needs and the entitlement isn’t couched by any social awareness. I watched love on the spectrum (one whole episode) and the men all felt like they deserved a relationship and didn’t even think about their partner being a person. It was so frustrating to watch. Meanwhile I’m out in public trying not to accidentally upset or offend people and worrying about stepping on toes. But these guys just go out and exist oblivious to the needs of others.

We both do these things (I am bad at talking over people) but I at least have the awareness to apologize and shut up when I notice I’m doing it. They don’t.

2023-07-31T15:58:41+00:00

Real Autism, or the excuse Autism people use for being a little weird at times?

Wolvengirla88 · 2023-08-05T02:33:07+00:00

Autistic women exist and would totally date autistic men.

Title	I believe autism is a bigger death sentence for your romantic prospects then looking ugly
Author	Kooky-Turnip-1715
Upvotes	130
Comments	232
Date	July 31, 2023 2:05 PM UTC (2 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/15eh5a9/i_believe_autism_is_a_bigger_death_sentence_for/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/i-believe-autism-is-a-bigger-death-sentence-for.1227117 https://theredarchive.com/post/1227117

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