Men go into tremendous detail to prove the wage gap is not real, yet overuse vague statistics for divorce stats against women. Why do you think the details for initiating divorce doesn't matter?

xFallacyx69 · 2020-11-13T21:24:28+00:00

I personally think it’s because there’s tons of examples of men admitting they could’ve done more to keep a relationship together. Could’ve given her flowers more, could’ve cleaned the house more, could’ve been around more.... so when a woman cheats or calls it quits men are more likely to blame themselves.

On the flip side, rarely is a man ever applauded for leaving his wife for whatever reason. I’ve never heard a woman admit fault for her part in the divorce. It’s far more likely that she’ll claim the victim no matter what, so it’s hard for us to get an accurate story when you claim to be the victim EVERY time the relationship goes south.

neubs · 2020-11-13T20:48:44+00:00

Women are the selectors most of the time so it makes sense to me that they would also be the ones to decide when the relationship ends. I see a lot of men as sort of just clinging to the relationship and being easily replaceable. The reason is that the woman found something better even if that something is just being alone.

LotBuilder · 2020-11-13T22:35:52+00:00

Women initiate 80% of divorces and men pay 85% of all child support and 93% of all alimony.

It’s not hard to connect the dots.

screamingIn2_theVoid · 2020-11-13T20:41:03+00:00

Both are facts. Wage gap is not real and women initiate most of the divorces. That's why we use them.

catfishmasc · 2020-11-13T20:43:28+00:00

[deleted]

2020-11-13T20:54:54+00:00

Possible reasons why women would want to divorce

Pontifex_Lucious-II · 2020-11-13T21:47:30+00:00

I mean. You could bring those alleged facts up in an organized manner to disprove claims you disagree with.

The wage gap is garbage analysis.

Why are divorce statistics not garbage analysis?

12112019 · 2020-11-13T23:06:13+00:00

If "80%" of women initiate divorce - don't you think it's important to know why

not in particular, marriage is not a worthy prize at all considering these risks, no need to check anything

daproest1 · 2020-11-14T06:19:40+00:00

It doesn’t matter. 80% of husbands are not abusive or neglectful. Men are not these horrible monsters. Unless those words are being misused. Which they often are by women. The meaning of the words in English seems like it doesn’t even matter to them. Only what they feel does, then they just look for the words that make them feel like what they feel. No matter what those words mean and the consequences they may actually imply. It’s fine. Men are refusing to marry you guys anymore anyway, for these kinds of reasons. It’s been proven over and over. It is the female, not the male, that ends up “dissatisfied” in long term relationships. Ester Perrel (might not have spelled that right) is a woman, a psychologist, a relationship expert, and says this herself. And that is the most common reason for filing. “Dissatisfaction” lol

A vow is a vow. Keep it or don’t make it. Men keep it. When we aren’t even crazy about making it in the first place. Our word means something (for most of us, there are some douchebags) to us cuz it’s tied in with honor, respect, and other aspects of what being a man represents to us on a subconscious level.

Women cannot live with a situation if they don’t like the way they “feel” about it 24/7. It’s exhausting. Sounds like “duh!! No one should!!” Right? No. It’s not that simple... The situation doesn’t have to be that bad for them to feel negatively about it.

Just like a lot of husbands would like some time alone or away from their wives. Or just wish their wives would stop nagging 70% of the time. But they still wouldn’t divorce their wives. It’s not logical for men. It’s our wife/spouse. We love her. In good times and bad. We just want peace and stability. We just kind of brush her off as moody or whatever, roll our eyes, and forget about it.

For women logic comes later. Peace and stability is boring to them. Often times they’ll introduce drama into a marriage or relationship just because they’re bored. They don’t do this consciously of course, women arent these evil maleficent beings (just like men aren’t either) , it’s just nature doing it’s thing. They do this because they want to FEEL. Which is why it’s important for men to never stop courting or dating their partners/wives. But u have to make us want to do that too.

Human beings aren’t inherently monogamous. It’s a decision we make. It won’t always feel good. You’re going. Against nature. And women ARE the selectors. You won’t always be ecstatic to be together. But its well worth it if you see it thru to the end. The problem is society has taken away everyone’s roles. Sorry, but gender roles are important. A man SHOULD provide, protect, and make sure his woman feels safe, loved, and led. But guess what? We don’t want to do that shit if we constantly have to argue with you about NOTHING. Just like a woman SHOULD care about the (inside of the) house, the family, the food, and the stuff that men naturally just don’t care about.

Women file 80% of the time because their needs are 4x that of men.

We want u to:

-be hot and stay hot as long as u can

-don’t be crazy. Relax.

-clean house and food is nice

-support what we want to do, because it’s for the TEAM. Not just for ourselves

Women want: -stability

-excitement

-finances taken care of

-great sex every time forever

-marriage

-divorce

-children

-baby sitters

-dates

-dependence

-independence

-physical affection

-don’t touch her right now though

-constant attention

-praise

-no criticism ever

-a handy man

-a mechanic

-a plumber

-a bodyguard

-a therapist

Just permanent satisfaction across the board. Fuck a vow. Fuck a family. Fuck a promise. Fuck my spouse. Fuck everything besides MY feelings at this point in time.

abaxeron · 2020-11-13T23:53:52+00:00

All your explanations boil down to "men are bad at being partners".

You implicitly align with the crowd that insists for decades that 22% difference in men's and women's earnings is definite proof that women exist in a hostile environment that deliberately suppresses their potential; and yet you expect us to agree that men being 300% more often at the receiving end of divorce is their own fault.

All the "reasons" you listed would, cumulatively, account for 50, maybe 100 percent difference between m/f divorce initiations, tops-tops-tops. Not 150%, not 200%, not 300%.

priestMarX · 2020-11-14T07:05:50+00:00

Women divorce so much because they can. They only benefit from for divorce. They get the house, the kids, alimony, child support, and get cheered by her friends and society for being strong and independent. Could have been being abused, could have just been bored, could have never loved him and just wanted to have kids with a suitable guy, could have just been in it for the money, could have done it just because he had the exact look/job she was looking for. The divorce benefits the woman every time. She has no reason to stay married if it ever gets difficult. Plus with the sexual liberation of modern day, by the time a lot of women get married, they have already “had their fun” and don’t even really enjoy the sex side of things. A lot of women get married just because all of their friends were getting married and they didn’t want to get left out, or because they always wanted to get married and figured they’d give it a shot.

So the details do matter, because each situation is different, but they don’t matter overall because the result always benefits the woman, and it’s always the man’s fault for not keeping her happy in whatever specific way she decided to be unhappy to give her an excuse to leave (minus the abuse scenarios of course).

YouSaidChicken · 2020-11-13T21:46:50+00:00

It’s an earnings gap, and it has distinct reasons. Feminists use lies for their “wage gap” and they know it’s a lie, like everything else they say.

Women initiate the majority of divorces.

Facts.

relish5k · 2020-11-14T02:05:28+00:00

As a new mom I'm in a lot of new mom social media groups and all I can say is hot damn. If these guys are surprised when their wives initiate divorce they shouldn't be.

Anyone who is curious to why women initiate divorce should peruse the subreddit for postpartum depression. There are some men posting on behalf of their wives, but usually more women who are like "I've been up since 5am with the baby all day. Luckily I was able to doing dishes and laundry while she napped. Husband came home at 5:15pm and played video games for 4 hours. I asked if he could put baby to bed so I could take a shower so he just changed her diaper and left her in her crib screaming and went back to video games"

Nephilim8 · 2020-11-14T05:58:11+00:00

The fact that lesbian marriages divorce at twice the rate of heterosexual marriages, and gay men have slightly lower rates of divorce than heterosexual marriages gives us a hint that it isn't as simple as "men are stupid and ruin their own marriages". My interpretation is that women are more difficult to please than men are, and therefore ruin their own marriages by being demanding and wanting things "just so". This isn't to say that there aren't shitty men who deserve to get divorced, but pretending that is the only reason for all divorces doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

Barely-moral · 2020-11-13T20:45:59+00:00

Disclaimer: I don't think many people share my position.

Answer. Because marriage is meant to be the ultimate and definitive form of commitment.

If marriage ends then it isn't ultimate nor definitive nor commitment.

One way in, no way out. The one who bails is in the wrong (in the wrong when we are talking about the marriage, not in the wrong when talking about specific actions taken inside it). Either for leaving or for being stupid enough to marry someone that needs leaving.

If you are going to divorce then why get married in the first place?

Details such as, relationship quality, abuse, neglect, finances, etc are all important details when arguing this claim

Vet better. Marry the right person. Or never marry at all. The person who initiates divorce is contributing to the erosion of the meaning that marriage once has. If divorce is an option then marriage is neither ultimate nor definitive nor commitment. It is no different from a LTR.

ratherjerkoff2000 · 2020-11-14T08:46:22+00:00

The amount of women who up and divorce faithful husbands for no reason puts the lie to your little fantasy.

Women break up marriages because they’re selfish and unsatisfiable. Of course no statistic will show you that because they’re not likely to admit it are they?

Atlas__B__Shruggin · 2020-11-13T21:51:36+00:00

none of it matters, the use of statistics here is just stemlords DEERIng at disapproving women and playing the reddit "citation please" game

none of them have the balls to just go "ew, sluts, yuck" and stick by it. trying to prove sluts are bad is entering womens frame

majani · 2020-11-13T22:57:39+00:00

Most breakups end in a finger pointing train wreck and it's even worse in divorce where the incentives to divert blame are super high. This is one of the many reasons why relationship statistics are mostly bunk.

Suck-Less · 2020-11-14T12:00:32+00:00

Here’s where you are really mistaken. Divorce isn’t an issue. The issue is what happens to men during a divorce. The issue is sexism in the family courts. The issue is how women and society obviously treats men like ATMs to be sacrificed for women and children.

If divorce was like any other breakup it really wouldn’t be much of an issue. But divorce is a shit fest for men. Divorce can destroy a man’s entire life, strip away every thing he has achieved and built up, just because she was next to him... seriously? Because she was fucking him and maybe washed the dishes she is now entitled to half of everything he accomplished?

Divorce has women crying for a few weeks then off to tinder. Divorce has men jumping off bridges or living under them. If it was the other way around, men wouldn’t care if women initiated 80% of the divorces.

existentialhack1 · 2020-11-14T12:50:50+00:00

I prefer to compare the "wage gap" with the sentencing gap. The raw stat for the sentencing gap is something insane over 100%, and the controlled gap is over 60%.

SeemedGood · 2020-11-13T21:05:23+00:00

When you break down women’s self reported reasons for divorce into spousal cheating, spousal abuse, spousal addiction, and general (other) dissatisfaction with spouse, general (other) dissatisfaction with spouse is the modal category and (just barely) exceeds all other categories combined.

KelownaZ · 2020-11-14T01:47:55+00:00

I found that women seem to be supportive of another woman getting a divorce, while men amongst themselves tell each other to work it out. Just my 2 cents on the topic.

skuttt · 2020-11-14T05:31:41+00:00

False equivalence. People dispute the conventional declaration of the wage gap because the way it is presented is disingenuous.

There’s nothing to dispute about the divorce initiation rate, the perpetrator is explicitly marked on the papers: there’s no argument to be had.

yuckyuck13 · 2020-11-14T06:45:25+00:00

I work 45 hours you work 40, yes I make more than you and it has nothing to do with whats between my legs. I simply work more, problem solved. And the US women soccer team were offered the same options as the men, they simply chose guaranteed pay over pay for play pricing. Reading is hard.

SteveSan82 · 2020-11-14T09:02:29+00:00

Wage gap isn’t real

wtknight · 2020-11-13T21:04:37+00:00

The man becomes undesirable to the woman for whatever reason. What else needs to be investigated? There are objective reasons for a wage gap but subjective reasons for women choosing divorce. It’s kind of an apples/oranges comparison in my mind, which is why the latter is not investigated more. One woman can divorce a man for doing the tiniest thing wrong. Another woman can stand by her man even if he completely screws up.

Kaisha001 · 2020-11-13T22:07:29+00:00

The wage gap doesn't exist.

JohnDoe9564 · 2020-11-13T22:18:32+00:00

Wage gap has been disproven as a myth a long time ago.

Details for divorce don't matter when one gender is initiating 80% of the separation. And even the most common reasons cited (infidelity ,abuse, etc) are done equally by both men AND women

medlabunicorn · 2020-11-14T08:12:32+00:00

Marriage isn’t good for women, statistically. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201702/women-who-stay-single-or-get-divorced-are-healthiest

LooseIndication · 2020-11-14T01:36:41+00:00

Men go into tremendous detail to prove the wage gap is not real, yet overuse vague statistics for divorce stats against women. Why do you think the details for initiating divorce doesn't matter?

What is the point?

Wage gap is a different matter than causes for divorce. You fail to make a connection, so all you are doing is trolling.

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QuenchlessGato · 2020-11-13T21:44:41+00:00

There is nothing to "prove" regarding divorce reasons. Nobody claims that such statistic is wrong.

On the other hand, many people talk about wage gap despite statistics telling us that there is no such gap. So if someone attacks an established result then people are going to provide the rationale behind the statistic.

Regarding the lack of talk about reasoning behind initiating divorce the main reason is that almost always women having nothing to lose by getting a divorce and are only getting more, while men are getting the short end of the stick (even if the man initiates the divorce). So why worry about the divorce reason when the woman is better off anyway.

throwaway9241213 · 2020-11-13T22:12:54+00:00

Why do you think the details for initiating divorce doesn't matter?

Of course it does. Are there people arguing that it doesn't matter why people decide to divorce? lol

RRBeachFG2 · 2020-11-13T22:23:35+00:00

We already know why

pablosito · 2020-11-14T03:48:39+00:00

Last I checked the top two reasons for divorce were infidelity and money respectively. Infidelity is still majority men but not by a large margin (again been awhile since I’ve looked so let’s just say 60-40 for now) secondly men tend not to care as much/at all about money problems with thwir spouse where as women care ALOT about money problems and will gladly divorce their husband should he lose his job. You are right. Reasons do matter. But even when they are accounted for it doesn’t undo the fact that women are infact initializing 80% of divorces while still commuting infidelity 40% of the time. The money side of things is almost always a result of the man not making enough. So from what I can see it’s still disproportionately women initiating the divorces. No matter how you slice it.

RedPillMissionary · 2020-11-14T04:14:16+00:00

Im willing to accept men could be to blame 60% of the time, but not 80.

WilliamWyattD · 2020-11-14T05:06:09+00:00

The details always matter. Too many posters here want to subscribe to an overly simplified narrative and then use it to answer every gender issue.

The sad thing is this obscures their good points, and puts women on the defensive which tends to help inhibit good cross gender discussion.

Yes, I do believe the fundamental contradictions and inaccuracies of feminism are coming home to roost, and this is contributing to many problems. But most of these issues are complex and multi-factorial, so one factor alone does not explain them.

parahacker · 2020-11-14T12:12:50+00:00

It's not that no one 'wants to bring it up', it's that the details of which you speak are well documented for the wage issue, and poorly documented for the divorce issue.

However, they *are* out there; it's just that nobody has yet gone through the extensive effort that would be required to correlate abuse, neglect, finances, etcetera with divorce.

Be the change, if you want that to happen.

Be aware though that it took years to debunk the wage gap, and many still believe it to be true regardless. I'd expect a similar debate length for divorce causes. You're looking at an uphill struggle.

darksoldierk · 2020-11-14T18:31:03+00:00

I absolutely think that that knowing "why" is key. The issue is, and I don't know if you've noticed, in our modern society, everything is the man's fault. It's hard not to be skeptical of statistics because it appears as though that statistics blaming women for things do not get published, likely in fear of some feminist movement having a negative impact on either the researchers, to the companies that published the research.

The wage gap research that men use doesn't assess men or women to determine who is at fault, it assesses the original research that stated that wome nearn $.70 on the dollar, and it addresses the reasons for that. When you are researching why women initiat divorce, you are looking to point the finger either at men, or at women, and as I said, it is very very unlikely that research will show that women are at fault simply because of the significant economic repercussions for both the researchers or the companies funding the research to say so.

So let me give you an example. Lets say that research shows that 80% of divorces happen because the woman is unhappy with the amount of housework the man does. Now, you will find thousands of studies showing how men do little housework compared to women, how women are now responsible for having a job and doing more housework, how it's men's faults that women are getting burnt out and divorcing them because men aren't doing their share. What you rarely find, is the other side. And the other side is, men, on average, work longer hours than women. Depending on where you are, men work 5-10 hours more than women per week, and when you take that into account, you can see that it isn't that men aren't putting in as much effort or aren't putting in the work, rather, women's problem is that their husbands aren't putting in the effort where those women want those men to put in the effort. If a guy goes to a construction site at 5 am, works at -30* C weather, and comes home at 5 pm, is it reasonable to expect him to do the same amount of housework as his wife, who went into a cozy, heated office job at 9 am and got home 5 pm? If a guy goes into

Also When discussing the wage gap, you have the ability to consider facts. A person choosing to work less hours is a fact, the choice was made. It's not an opinion, it's a clear fact. But, in relationships, things like "relationship quality", "neglect", "finances" etc, are more emotionally based. They are more feelings based. What one woman doesn't consider "neglect" another woman may consider "clingy" or "needy" or "desperate". What one woman considers "good financial position" another woman may consider "financial stress". What one woman considers a "good relationship" another may consider an "abyssimal relationship". I've heard women say their husbands are 'addicted to video games" because the guy plays an hour a day. These are all feelings, and all studies related to divorces (with the exception of physical abuse) are about women's feelings. Women haven't collectively agreed on what makes a good or a bad relationship, or what is or isn't neglect etc etc. However, in the wage gap, there is a very clear definition. If all things are equal, then how much do women earn for every dollar that a man earns? You have a baseline. The baseline is the $1. In researching "why" when it comes to divorce, there is no baseline, no constant, no solid definitions, just how women feel, and the way women feel is always going to be that it's the man's fault, which means that these studies are subjective and not based on facts. The only fact in those studies, are divorces from physical abuse, and the fact that the majority of divorces are initiated by women. Those are the only things that can be measured objectively.

Grave_Heresy · 2020-11-16T04:26:22+00:00

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/divorce/bulletins/divorcesinenglandandwales/2017#:~:text=was%2012%20years-,The%20median%20duration%20of%20marriage%20(the%20mid-point%20of%20all,40%20years%20ago%20in%201972.

akihonj · 2020-11-13T21:29:40+00:00

Because it's pointless to go into a deep dive over why, we men see the results regardless of how good or bad the husband was.

I mean how many men use the phrase "starter marriage". Men don't use that phrase, women do.

The point is no matter how the husband behaves through the marriage the divorce is still initiated in about 80% of cases, in about 60% of those cases the wife cheated on her husband, does that need a deep dive box the behaviour happened and the result is often the same, the man still gets raped and loses everything and has, often, the threat of jail hanging over him.

The reasons why are irrelevant, the end result is what matters. It's the very reason why so many young men do not want to get married, why so many young men know all to well that regardless of what a feminist leaning media says about marriage the reality if often very very different to their published fantasy.

_HEDONISM_BOT · 2020-11-13T21:35:46+00:00

because men already know women don't hit the "divorce button" unless something serious is going wrong with the relationship such as abuse, neglect, cheating, etc.

There's an interesting trend to note here. The fact that most divorces are initiated by women echos what men already know.... that the dating market is filled with men searching for love in a scarce, limited pool of women. A woman divorcing her husband knows that she can hop on an online dating app and have another high quality guy lined up to take her out on a date the same day she signs her divorce papers (if she plays her cards right, she could get him to drop her off at the courthouse/pick her up as soon as those papers are signed).

they don't like that the dating market works the way it does. They don't like that there's something like 2-50 men on dating apps for each 1 woman available (depending on the app). Venture over to the TinderData sub and witness for yourself that most men have to swipe 20,000+ times (typically over the course of 2+ years) just for a handful of sexual encounters while most women could get a high quality relationship within the first 500 swipes. It's a stark reality that I think really pushes them to hate the fact that most divorces are initiated by women. They know what the divorced man will go through to find another relationship and what women will go through to find another relationship and it's anxiety-inducing for men.

I'd have anxiety about it all too, if I knew losing my wife meant I had to swipe for 80,000 times over the course of 6 years to find another relationship while my ex-wife had a new boyfriend the same week she divorced me.

Whiteliesmatter1 · 2020-11-13T20:52:34+00:00

The wage gap is real, but the reasons for it aren’t what feminists say the reasons are, and it doesn’t mean what they think it means.

NotGoingoutofMW · 2020-11-13T20:53:59+00:00

Well knowing many of the reasons and how even the slightiest shit can be amplified in the womans head to such a magnitude that she really starts to suffer over trivial shit. Doesn't take away the real reasons though like alcohol or DV and yet still many reasons are created out of thin air and then lingering, adding up over time.

reddtormtnliv · 2020-11-14T04:17:15+00:00

Details matter in both cases but I would emphasize that causes for divorce probably split equally between both parties since it is a 50/50 arrangement. The work force is not a equal arrangement between the sexes. They types of jobs men and women work are different. Plus there are more men in the workforce, and men pay more of the taxes.

ifelsedowhile · 2020-11-13T21:16:05+00:00

I have a shorter answer: hypergamy

LooseIndication · 2020-11-14T01:33:09+00:00

No. It does not matters why women initiate divorce, but the fact that most divorces are initiated by women.

icefire54 · 2020-11-14T05:21:25+00:00

Women are more likely to abusive and shitty things to make the marriage go south. This is also backed by stats.

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