The other shoe of the nice guy phenomenon...is it going to drop soon?

SaBahRub · 2020-10-29T05:30:13+00:00

Well, then don’t treat women who are attracted to you decently if it’s such a struggle, jeez.

Most people don’t find hate-fucking to be the basis of happiness, just so you know

NarniaFox · 2020-10-29T03:29:44+00:00

The Golden Rule.

Yeah, you can be a garbage person as long as you don't do anything illegal, but don't get surprised to be treated like shit in return.

An ideal way to treat men and women is to treat them equally nicely. Not because you want to get something from them, but because we live in a society and there are ethics, morals and good manners that help to keep people in good terms with each other and partially the whole structure of the society.

FirsToStrike · 2020-10-29T04:08:51+00:00

[removed]

lotsofhubris · 2020-10-29T02:49:00+00:00

If women want to be treated like men then That’s fine. But don’t complain when you get treated like shit

2020-10-29T10:57:40+00:00

I’ll drop a simplified diagram.

A girl sees a guy:

Attractive and nice - he’s a catch

Unattractive and nice - he’s a “nice guy”

Attractive and asshole - he’s good inside

Unattractive and asshole - just an asshole

April_blossoms · 2020-10-29T03:06:11+00:00

Don't you want to live in a world where people are nice to each other? At least a modicum of respect for everyone? Or would you all rather live in a world where nobody is kind ever just because every girl you meet doesn't have sex with you?

nik6979 · 2020-10-29T11:20:59+00:00

Well when men get sick or injured , females usually care for them . Don't be that dude that has nobody in life cause he was a complete asshole , trust me it happens , old or injured men everywhere dying by themselves cause they were shit stain as a father and husband .

LittyKitsune · 2020-10-29T03:34:07+00:00

Kindness is effort and effort without reward is wasted energy.

Speak for yourself. This definitely comes down to one's personality/temperament. For some kindness is the natural default that requires the least effort while for others it's being a dick or somewhere in between.

Look at it evolutionarily. If it doesn't result in more lays and kids, it kinda disappears from the population

This is false. Useless traits that don't actively impede reproduction aren't automatically wiped out. Evolution is believed to mainly act on traits that are outright disadvantageous. If a person is kind and physically attractive (yes these people do in fact exist) there is a high chance they will get to reproduce and pass their values on to their kids. Just because their kindness isn't what allowed them to reproduce doesn't mean that they won't get to pass that trait on.

GGMcThroway · 2020-10-29T03:15:30+00:00

The incentive to treat women well is the same incentive to treat everyone well: Being an asshole will make everyone think you're a douche and avoid you.

fransquaoi · 2020-10-29T06:57:21+00:00

So, the idea is that being nice and kind to women DOES NOT get you sex or close to sex or even factor into that calculus.

Is anyone saying this?

Being nice doesn't guarantee you sex. But it obviously improves your odds.

Don't come at me with the 'to just be a decent person' angle because...please, lettuce be cereal. Kindness is effort and effort without reward is wasted energy.

Most people care about morality. If you don't, there's something wrong with you.

Look at it evolutionarily.

Humans evolved to be altruistic. We're an incredibly altruistic species. Our collaboration is what makes us so successful, and if you're a dick, no one will collaborate with you.

irl, for every Steve Jobs, there are 50 psychopaths who rot in jail or drink themselves to death from loneliness.

Chadlite69 · 2020-10-29T02:45:25+00:00

just treat women and men equally

it's basically the only "equality" statement that makes sense. there's absolutely no benefit to adjusting your mannerisms toward women as a man.

its_Leftie · 2020-10-29T04:31:02+00:00

I can’t tell if this is trolling or not. The general rule is treat everyone with some level of decency and they’ll most likely treat you well too. Even if you genuinely dont give a fuck about people, treating them with some level of respect is the best bet you have at making sure you get treated the same. By all means be an asshole, just don’t get mad when women treat you like one.

passepar2t · 2020-10-29T05:48:33+00:00

Look, if you're gonna be a nice person, the only legitimate reason to do it is if it's its own reward.

2020-10-29T10:04:21+00:00

once a woman is attracted, what is the point of being nice?

Because if we start getting treated like shit we aren't going to like you anymore. You will be known as the guy who's a manipulator. Being nice only to get something from someone is manipulative, that sort of behaviour is also very similar to how abusers feel in people to hurt. They pretend to be someone they are not and then flip the switch when they are comfortable.

what's the remaining incentive for men to treat women nicely, then?

Have you never been friends with a woman and I mean just friends? Nit every woman out there is going to want to fuck, nor are you going to want to fuck every woman. There will be that sort of situation everywhere say for instance at work. You will most likely have a colleague who is woman.

Are you seriously telling me you would only create a good working environment with a woman and treat her the same as your male colleagues only to try and get in with them? Do you know how creepy that sounds?

I don't know where people get the idea that you have to be an asshole to get women. I guarantee you could ask a bunch of women what thier S.O does that they like and most would list off a bunch if sweet things they have done.

Yes there is going to be the odd exception where a woman is dating for other things, but there are going to be men who only date for certain features of a woman.

what's the remaining incentive for men to treat women nicely, then?

The fact that women are not just for you to fuck. If we turned this the other way most of you guys would be screaming that women are just shallow.

There is an entire world out there besides getting your dick wet.

wtknight · 2020-10-29T02:53:25+00:00

A man who is nice and attractive has an advantage over a man who is not nice and attractive if said woman has any kind of self-esteem.

In addition, a man who is "somewhat attractive" to a woman can become more attractive to her if he is perceived as nice. I've been in this sort of situation several times in my life myself, so some manosphere guy trying to tell me that all women want cocky assholes isn't going to convince me.

The thing is, a guy who is not at all attractive to a woman is not going to become any more attractive to her just by being nice. But if a guy is somewhat attractive to her, then doing things and behaving in certain ways can make him more attractive. This seems to be a difficult concept for some men to understand, and men also seem to be confused quite often what category they are in. This is why it's advantageous for a man to flirt with a woman who he is interested in as early as possible and not try to go the friendzone route, as in such cases she's likely not attracted to him but will be giving him a false impression that she might be.

Cimorene86 · 2020-10-29T09:12:36+00:00

IS kindness really effort though? For myself and the people I voluntarily hang out with, it's our default. Sure, I have family members, coworkers, and unfortunately even some acquaintances who are either apathetic or assholes but I don't spend more time with them than absolutely necessary.

In my opinion and experience, being unkind/indifferent is what takes energy because it's not an automatic reaction. Being kind, caring, empathetic is typical. To have to think of ways to be unkind or ignorant of other people is atypical and thus requires active energy to think about doing so.

trail22 · 2020-10-29T10:23:40+00:00

How about the incentive of not hating yourself because you're a dick.

Creation_Soul · 2020-10-29T12:14:34+00:00

If you want a relationship just for sex, then "being nice" after achieving that is useless to you.

If you want a (stable) relationship more akin to partnership, then being and asshole as soon as you enter the relationship might be detrimental to you.

Also, "being nice" is not synonymous with being a doormat or having no boundaries. You seem to think that being nice is akin to being a simp.

thetruthishere_ · 2020-10-29T12:23:27+00:00

Being kind is no effort at all for me personally. I also dont think being kind to others is wasted energy just because I dont get a 'reward'. Im not kind to get a reward, its just who I am.

Not like I have not been burned in my life but I wont stop being kind just because someone else wasn't to me.

I think its weird seeing being kind is to get a 'reward'.

PurplePlatypusBear20 · 2020-10-29T16:45:57+00:00

There is a difference between being nice to get a girl's pants and being genuinely nice.

A "nice guy" lies. He gives empty compliments. He pretends to have the same interests. And often he tries to pit you against others. He's so insecure when he sees you even look in the direction of another guy, he assumes you're cheating on him.

The main reason women don't like him is that he is a deceptive, very manipulative person.

Maude2010 · 2020-10-29T17:11:38+00:00

Since when is being kind an effort? Anyone who feels this way is utterly broken.

Tyrion69Lannister · 2020-10-29T18:21:21+00:00

There’s something absolutely repulsive about people who just treat others nicely because they want something from them. You can judge a person pretty well by the way they treat those who can’t do anything for them. It won’t get you laid, you’re right. What it can do is make you look like a far shittier person than you would be otherwise.

Copperstoner · 2020-10-29T19:06:11+00:00

...what's the remaining incentive for men to treat women nicely, then?

The fact that I wanted to be treated the same by them, even if we don't have any romantic, platonic or sexual interests? And that "being nice" doesn't have much to do with getting sex or a relationship?

Honestly you sound like the meme:

"I've been nice to you! Now I demand you to take my penis!"

But if you want to hear the advantages you have, if you treat women (or men for that matter) "nice" (whatever definition you use):

You are more likely to be introduced to her other friends
It's more likely that you are invited to a party/dinner/social gatherings
Other people recognice this and you
Higher social proof
More possibilities to hone your social skills
More people to talk to, if you feel bored
Kindness is normally met with kindness from other people, so they are more inclined to help you out

etc.

If you want to get laid or have a romantic relationship, you need her attraction anyways and you can't negotiate that. So being nice won't help you much anyways in this aspect.

heyo_mayo1 · 2020-10-29T19:26:05+00:00

Well, word gets around. If you treat one woman like shit she’s going to tell people to steer clear of you- if you’re just that big of an asshole soon enough people are not going to want to interact with you, even other men. I seriously doubt there are that many guys who are gonna wanna hang out with a guy who moans about how “all women are bitches” then turn around and do jackshit to actually win a girl over

mistresswhat · 2020-10-29T19:36:03+00:00

Pure niceness doesn't get you laid, but it also doesn't not get you laid? I swear y'all are married to the "women love assholes" trope because it lets you blame your lack of success on your inherent goodness, but that doesn't make it true.

If you're hot and interesting and charming, you'll probably have success regardless of how nice or not nice you are. So why be a jerk?

Also "oh no being nice doesn't directly result in me getting my dick wet, guess I'll start being an asshole" is the kind of thing people who aren't very nice say. If you were never a nice person to begin with then your lack of dating success can't possibly be because you're too nice.

Workaholiconew · 2020-10-30T03:04:09+00:00

So what's the incentive to treat women well for men?

None, we are compelled to do it. Heck, all humans are compelled to treat women nicely. Including women themselves.

It is our instinct to do so.

There are other reasons beside it, like helping to raise children, or in order to keep/maintain your resources... but besides that... I don't think there is any significant alternative.

WilliamWyattD · 2020-11-01T15:09:09+00:00

This is crazy talk.

There are a million reasons to be nice or not nice that are not all about getting laid.

Men just need to use a little empathy here. Yes, men and women are wired differently sexually, but not entirely differently.

Despite what a lot of propaganda said, there are limits to the extent that a man can 'earn' the sexual desire of an attractive woman. Female sexuality is no more moral than male. How big an impact does female niceness have on your choice of mate?

akaean · 2020-10-29T12:39:13+00:00

I am always amazed when redpillers try to gaslight people into thinking that they aren't "nice guys". Just a quick look through these comments and you can see nice guy sympathizers swarming about with their red flairs. How... ironic.

Don't come at me with the 'to just be a decent person' angle because...please, lettuce be cereal. Kindness is effort and effort without reward is wasted energy.

This is just another typical post that doesn't really understand what it means to be nice. It also doesn't really understand why people are nice, and it fails to understand that people can interact for reasons that aren't directly connected to sex.

The best analogy for the problem with "nice guys" is to take gender out of the equation for a second. How do you act and present yourself in a room of exclusively men. For instance.

You are enjoying your coffee Sunday morning, when your phone starts ringing. You pick up the phone and learn that your friend's car broke down! You are asked (appreciatively) if you could swing by and give them a jump.

Do you help your friend? Or do you nonchalantly explain that you will not be helping because, "kindness is effort and effort without reward is wasted energy."

If your friend is a guy, and you do decide to head over a few blocks and give him a jump... are you going to ask him for a blow job? The answer is (most likely, but not that there's anything wrong with it) no. You help him because he is your friend and there is at least some reward in maintaining that friendship, even if for no direct material gain.

So why does this calculus suddenly change so drastically if your friend is a gal? If "maintaining that friendship" isn't reason enough to help her... it means you must admit that you don't actually value that friendship at best and at worst were actually lying about being her friend to disguise an ulterior motive.

The point here is that men don't see the cognitive dissonance of treating their women friends with significantly less respect than their men friends. They don't expect gay sex out male friends, but will expect sex out of female friends for the same actions. The reason is that they are lying about being friends with these women as a way to try to manipulate them into having sex- even if they don't realize it, it doesn't take much digging to find it.

The issue with nice guys and simps is that they are shoveling on unwanted attention and unwanted kindness to women who they feel have an obligation to repay this unwanted attention with sexual attraction. This happens all the time in video games where people act very inappropriately to women playing video games online, from the moment they realize that they are a woman. These women don't want a flock of male player's "protecting them". They want to play the game like everyone else. Its why so many woman gamers turn off their mic and play male avatars to keep a low profile. Something they shouldn't need to do.

So what's the incentive to treat women well for men?

They are living, rational beings. They deserve to be treated like other rational beings. A good litmus test is to take sex out of the equation and ask yourself if you would treat a man the same way.

401kisfun · 2020-10-29T05:52:31+00:00

You know what’s interesting? Women don’t put nice guys, who take an interest in getting to know them as a person, at the top of their social calendar. Like EVER. If they did, you would see a direct correlation, IE message a girl about her profile, non sexual, approach a girl in a bar, compliment her shoes and offer to buy her dinner, provided you aren’t totally ugly, would have you swimming in dates. But that’s not what happens in reality does it?

BROWN-TOILET-PAPER · 2020-10-29T12:28:40+00:00

....once a woman is attracted, what is the point of being nice?

People like it when you're nice to them, even women-people.

2020-10-29T02:53:27+00:00

what's the remaining incentive for men to treat women nicely, then?

If it's all about attraction and that's amoral, then........

....once a woman is attracted, what is the point of being nice?

Nothing... stop doing it... cast off the shackles of false middle class morality as women and wealthy men (and to a certain extent poor men) have already learned this whole thing is a fucking sick hypocritical scam milk it for all it's worth to the fullest extent of the law

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801735 · 2020-10-29T04:08:45+00:00

Society-wide peace and order. Also not getting rekt by knights of all kinds?

KirthWGersen · 2020-10-29T07:12:50+00:00

I'm nice to everyone. But I'm not a nice guy. I like to tease people, joke around, do what I want to do. If people want to join in with me, that's just great.

No-one ever expects me to do things for them. They know, through my actions, that if I do something for them, it is because I want to and don't expect anything in return.

My efforts are always appreciated, and if they are not, they are not repeated.

I am nice to people because I like people. But I also expect people to sort their own shit out. I'll help people who are helping themselves. So I can be nice and respected at the same time.

If you are always nice and self-sacrificing, your efforts will be taken for granted. If you are sufficiently selfish to be considered an arsehole, but kind and loving too, all your good actions will be valued ten times more than those of a nice guy.

anonymouscausefuckU · 2020-10-29T11:56:18+00:00

The sexual revolution is what caused the end of the “gentleman” for this exact reason. Without the norms of dating pre-60s, there was just no longer any reason for men to act like this. In fact, it actually disincentivized it. In hookup culture, half of it comes down to which men can move the fastest. And so with that having replaced relationships as the primary way young people have sex, it becomes the most important factor for men to succeed sexually. It isn’t that “men only want sex”, it’s that “men are sexual beings just like women and they learn from experience that if they beat around the bush too much they lose sexual opportunities”.

BIGFACTS98 · 2020-10-29T15:23:13+00:00

This sub has a great way of avoiding the question

Emervila · 2020-10-29T16:07:26+00:00

Kindness is effort and effort without reward is wasted energy.

This is based

quantum_incel · 2020-10-29T16:18:41+00:00

Speaking from personal experience - I am what would you call a legit "nice guy". Never had an illusion that someone owes me sex just because I'm nice. However there's one thing that grinds my gears ngl - girls telling me BS like "Ur such a nice guy, I'm sure you'll find someone who will love you very much". I've seen what girls adore and and being nice - legit or only to "get to sex part" has never ever be seen as attractive behaviour. Don't care for it tho, I try to be nice bcs I'm aware how many people aren't, but please for the love of whatever you worship, don't spew comparisons to golden rule or whatnot. Try to CMV me if you want :D

2020-10-29T17:45:13+00:00

If it doesn't result in more lays and kids, it kinda disappears from the population

Selfish people have fewer children and earn less money

So what's the incentive to treat women well for men?

There is no incentive. Nobody is going to give you any guaranteed rewards for being a well-adjusted adult.

thedeadpill · 2020-10-29T19:11:15+00:00

....once a woman is attracted, what is the point of being nice?

Well, here's the kicker: since they're either attracted to you or not, the final question should be:

what is the point of being nice?

Arguably, that's what TRP says at this point. Be a dick. Don't be nice. Don't be deferential. None of it is necessarily within the context of a relationship.

Not my philosophy; I find some level of courtesy effortless, and it makes the world a (slightly) better place.

rubbooyuri · 2020-10-29T19:21:01+00:00

Why do you need us to talk you out of being a selfish ass? According to red pill, that’s hhhhhnnnnnnngggggg to ladies. You’d be swimming in puss! Please, for the love of god, stop whining and be the horrible person you always wanted to be!

Expensive-Guitar3609 · 2020-10-29T21:56:51+00:00

I'll give you some advice: always be yourself, but if you can be Batman then be Batman couse it's awesome.

You see, Batman is awesome, cool, may be he's not the most charismatic and elocuent superhero, and sometimes he can be a bit scary to girls, but we like him becouse he kicks asses.

Nobody shits on the Bat. He's the "IDGAF" man, like Wolverine on steroids. He's classy and has a suave demeanor, speaks slowly but clearly. He's not a Gigachad but is persistent, has an iron will (sadly his spine is not so gret but even) and he can beat the shit out of more powerful and good looking superheros.

I mean, he beated the shit out of Henry Cavil's Superman, arguably the most powerful and good looking and hot Superman in history, and people loved it.

Why?

Becouse he's Batman.

So if you are not born with Henry Cavil's superpowers, be Batman.

Bat-Based.

redditthrowaway1478 · 2020-10-30T11:41:12+00:00

There...really isn’t.

At the end of the day it’s a personal choice.

In my current relationship, my girl is very submissive and generally just happy to be around me, but her behavior is surprisingly consistent and mirrors her monthly cycle quite accurately. During the days of her PMS, she is at her most aggressive, irritable, obnoxious, and capricious. Though a little later than usual, for her, It’s at this point in her cycle where, from an evolutionary point of view, the female is programmed to chase her current male away so that a more aggressive, dominant male with superior genetics can court her and facilitate a female’s short-term mating schedule.

In other words - my girl gets really bitchy and annoying so I have to literally talk down to her and point out how her behavior is unacceptable like I’m talking to a child essentially. I have to be her daddy. I fucking hate it.

But ya know what? 5 minutes afterwards, my girl is right back to her old, bubbly and lovely self again, and she’s happy with us...for a while at least.

So I do it because sometimes there’s no other way. Deal with life as it is, not how you would like it to be.

of_all · 2020-10-31T20:06:01+00:00

Human beings are human first before any gender position. This question can only be asked by a man that does not view women as being fundamentally human.

0tigolebitties0 · 2020-11-01T09:15:05+00:00

Define "treat women well".

2020-11-01T09:23:24+00:00

If you stop treating women nicely then nothing happens, literally. The ones who abuse and exploit e nice men simply move on to another target. There's always a dozen simps behind you.

LooseIndication · 2020-11-02T13:21:06+00:00

So, the idea is that being nice and kind to women DOES NOT get you sex or close to sex or even factor into that calculus.

That's wrong. Acting nice is a HUGE FACTOR, and is negative. It totally destroys the attraction a woman feels for a male.

If it didn't "even factor" the RP would not even care.

"Being nice" is a cheat that does not works, and is counterproductive.

But not "being nice" is not "being a jerk".

mgtow_1 · 2020-10-29T04:49:29+00:00

My great uncle used to half joking say in reference to women, "if it wasn't for their vaginas we would hunt and kill them for sport."

Equalattractions · 2020-10-29T12:43:40+00:00

Most acts of kindness and niceness are done through the government taxation system nowadays.

If you are a single, childless man that works a full-time job, you are a TOP contributor to your nation's government. And therefore also the resulting government programs that help poor people, educate children, healthcare, etc.

What needs to be done is that taxes are SEVERELY reduced, and healthcare/education is entirely privatized. This way, men aren't forced to pay into a system that they don't benefit from.

psypD · 2020-10-29T06:10:52+00:00

Always follow the Golden Rule...do unto others before they do unto you and do it hard enough so that they don't.

2020-10-29T10:36:33+00:00

No one ever said that being nice way was you needed to get sex, literally no one ever.

Terps are taking that totally out of context.

If a woman is ALREADY (somewhat) attracted to you, then being nice is how you can increase the women's interest in you.

SonicBackScratcher · 2020-10-29T11:44:41+00:00

I love how people act like their short lifetime is when this all went down.

Being a ”nice guy" has never worked and men have either figured out how to be there own person or failed to.

Nice guys don't fail for being nice btw they fail for being too available and boring.

xFallacyx69 · 2020-10-29T12:12:57+00:00

Do you really want to be with a woman that accepts poor treatment? That’s so unattractive to me.

Don’t cater to her... but don’t treat her worse just because some kid from TRP subreddit told you that was alpha. If she’s shitty, don’t be shitty back, just dump her ass.

DanielGodinho · 2020-10-29T14:44:13+00:00

Thats why the mgtow movimente are rising. Its wasted energy dealing with girls overall. Too much effort to almost nothing in return. Lack of empathy and reciprocity

2020-10-29T06:11:58+00:00

So what's the incentive to treat women well for men?

nothing really, nothing. collectively men do more good for women then harm and is not even close. in the end it harms us more.

Title	The other shoe of the nice guy phenomenon...is it going to drop soon?
Author	statusincorporated
Upvotes	23
Comments	305
Date	October 29, 2020 2:40 AM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/jk22s1/the_other_shoe_of_the_nice_guy_phenomenonis_it/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/the-other-shoe-of-the-nice-guy-phenomenonis-it.736981 https://theredarchive.com/post/736981

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