I feel like there are no good men

AlegalHuman · 2021-11-14T00:07:14+00:00

Lol I was just reading an AskReddit thread where the question was “what did you see that most made you hate humanity” or similar and one answer was from a guy who used to pose as a 13 y/o girl in chat rooms with his other friends when they were all 13 y/o boys. And he said so many men tried to get sex, tried to say they would leave their wife/kids to run away with the girl, sent horrible unsolicited pics etc. that he never looked at men the same way again and that it’s stuck with him now into his 30s.

Guyincognito9876 · 2021-11-13T22:43:04+00:00

I have come to believe that the majority are not good. Not evil, but in general most don’t really see women as equals, and they don’t recognise their privilege. While I would never say never, I have resigned myself to being single for the remainder of my life unless someone truly high value comes along. And I’m just fine with that.

pinkpatronus · 2021-11-14T03:50:48+00:00

Not at men.... except, all men. lmao

red_mirror_ · 2021-11-13T23:14:06+00:00

"tHeY cAn'T eXpReSs tHeIr fEeLiNgS" Well, they seem to express anger just fine. The overwhelming majority of assault and domestic violence is committed by MEN.

Mysterious_Call_924 · 2021-11-13T22:41:00+00:00

Becoming a woman is a hell of a time, ain't it?

I really never thought about the fact that I was a "woman" at all until I got older. It's sombering experiencing misogyny from the men closest to you, realizing your dad isn't so good to your mom, realizing your grandma suffered too, learning that almost all of your friends have been raped.

It's also difficult to stomach that men KNOW. They KNOW.

And I've realized I have to be a lot harder, a lot colder, and way more on my toes at all times. We do have to fight to protect ourselves, even though I'd rather just get along with everyone.

_cnz_ · 2021-11-13T22:34:55+00:00

Once read one of the PUA subs here on Reddit about a guy who was pissed that his roommate slept with more women than. Turns out that the roommate was getting these women drunk every time and would ignore them when they said they didn’t want to drink anymore and refill their entire glass. Instead of labeling his friend the rapist that he was and stepping in to help these women, hed watch these women get past their limit then leave to go rant on Reddit that his peepee wasn’t getting wet while his buddy raped them

The worst part was that he’d tried to be a white knight about it and say that he never intentionally used alcohol to sleep with women bc it was “cheating”

headmatriarchkoko · 2021-11-14T00:14:39+00:00

One of the posts on this sub asked if anyone has ever met a man who has fully examined their relationship with the patriarchy and most of the comments on that post basically said "no".

As disheartening as it is to say, I sadly have to agree as well. Even the most leftist/"feminist" men I know are still misogynistic in their ways and it horrifies me! They can proudly condemn the sex industry and yet see absolutely no problem with having fRiEnDs WiTh BeNeFiTs (aka free prostitutes) or freelance girlfriends living under the poverty line (aka women they lead on by not putting a label on their relationship).

The list goes on and on and it's ridiculous how these men will shake their fists at capitalism and and racism but simply ~do not see~ their own misogyny. The only reasonable explanation I have for this is that they see no reason to examine their relationship with the patriarchy because they benefit directly from it.

WorkaholicParty · 2021-11-14T00:19:14+00:00

On top of it, men are extremely coddled. When threads here talk about discrimination in so many words you'll notice a bunch of men making up things like "can't go to a park with my daughter :/" or calling these annoying "Karens" bitches when a female client is questioning them or doesn't trust their advice. In "neutral" subs, it's mostly dude complaining about being dudes than women?

I feel like all of them, even the "good ones" have this victimizing attitude, I have never ever met a man who was aware of how disgusting things were for women. They know, they show it in their jealousy, possessiveness (over their daughters), when they victim-blame, when they perform "masculinity". They know and yet pretend they don't know. They might have empathy for a dog, be anti-racist but they don't have empathy for women as a class. And that's when the pickemeishism can get activated in some of us. You will meet men who aren't *bad* but lack that awareness, and people would tell you "oh educate them", well NO. I don't debate, I don't defend, I don't prove anything. I'll sit back, observe and if I see women agreeing with them I'll perhaps send her a signal or two in the form of crafted questions or sentences and watch the woman GET IT and withdraw from agreeing with the "clueless" guy who is still clueless.

Frogspocket · 2021-11-14T12:19:38+00:00

I used to feel this exact same way and working through it was one of the hardest times of my life. It took YEARS for me. It was so depressing reflecting back on all the "love" and "friends" that were fucking fake the whole time. It was like the whole world changed and became a different color. The hardest part was when I learned how pedophilic MOST, yes MOST men are (and the way they're able to justify it). That was the final line. I felt like I didn't even want to participate in "society" ever again. Definitely didn't want to date or befriend any men. I no longer felt safe. No longer believed in love. Learned I couldn't trust anyone. Learned I had to look out for myself.

But then I learned it's people. People suck. There are a lot of horrible PEOPLE and you don't see it until you get to know them iintimately. The ways in which women suck are far less physically dangerous to our personal safety so I still carry a (imo healthy) much more intense fear and distrust of men. But I work in music and have watched the way pickmes throw themselves at married men, knowingly and willingly participating in ruining lives for an ego boost. I have friends who work in social services my eyes have been opened to the non-physical abuse that LVW inflict on children. I've seen women fight tooth and nail to take women's rights away and hurt girls and women covertly. It's NOT as bad or the same as the evils of men. But it's enough. Many many people are self serving and gross.

BUT what I learned is that in the same way that there are good women in the world among the horrible ones there are some quality men in the world too. Not flawless men. But men that ethically and morally match your own level. So the best thing you can do is focus on yourself. Trust yourself. Protect yourself. Hold yourself to high standards of morals and ethics. Be your own value partner.

But don't let NVM win. They want you to believe that all men are terrible so that you surrender and settle. Be careful, keep your guards up, but don't lose hope. don't become hateful or complacent.

Stay open to love and connection, just be cautious and prioritize yourself, that's the secret.

SayNad · 2021-11-13T22:46:40+00:00

That's why you don't engage with men other than absolutely and professionally necessary.

Don't debate them, don't let them waste your time, don't give them your attention.

Don't tell them your secrets and don't give them any weapons to use against you - move in silence.

Treat their words as the bullsh*t it is and let it fly over your head - if you need to learn from them try online or put as much distance as you can.

Don't play their game, avoid it alltogether. Be like Queen Gambit - she doesn't do clapbacks upfront but strike them from the left and they never saw it coming.

Be standoffish. Be distant. Be cold. Be reserved.

The less time you give to men and getting sick from their toxicity, the more time you have to level up and find other HVWs that speak your truth.

biwinny · 2021-11-13T21:55:08+00:00

I posted on the venting subreddit that men are generally cruel towards women and other men enable it because they don't realize how cruel it is, and I just got shit on over and over and these men really tell me with a straight face that women do the same thing and it all makes me want to have a breakdown.

Why do they refuse to see what is so blatantly obvious ?!?!?! What did women do to deserve so much hate and cruelty?!?!? They choose every day not to listen and understand the billions of women screaming common sense at them. They CHOOSE not to empathize.

I was hated from the day I came out of the womb and I will die never understanding why.

asteria2002 · 2021-11-14T11:34:53+00:00

I feel exactly the same. I have been on twitter radfem comunnity and all the shit men ay about women is insane, the most popular advice they give to each other regarding women is "abuse her and never be nice to her, women hate nice guys"

That is why i have chosen to never associate myself with a man, i won't even befriend them, i will die single and vrigin, better than being with a man.

JessicaPop · 2021-11-13T22:22:46+00:00

It's "Not all men" this and "I'm a nice guy" that as a means to get you to sleep with them, but the second their daughter comes of age, it's "Let me get my shotgun because all men only want one thing." Men know. But they act dumb and pretend "not all men" so they can get sex.

abcorthis · 2021-11-13T22:54:27+00:00

After a certain point, accumulated number of experiences and observations, I have come to the conclusion that men really are biologically entirely different than us. They do not possess some of the capabilities we have, one being having empathy for other living beings. They see us as accessories to their lives that they desperately need, but not actual humans the way other men are.

Also, they are completely enmeshed in the male culture you describe, since childhood. If they don't have nudes on their phones or they haven't manipulated lots of women, or they don't get their answers from other men, they see themselves/are seen as inferior to their bros.

Everything we find vile and shocking is normal to them, in fact they are impressed by it. Like the drink rape post mentioned. To them, what was described isn't even rape, it is being "alfa".

There is no point in trying to make men understand any of this or trying to understand how they function.

A woman's focus should be solely on protecting herself from the parallel universe that is the world men live in.

Edit: another example of vile things men find normal that ruin women's lives: stringing her along in relationships that are many years long, not even really loving her or intending on staying, simply because it is convenient at the time.

I will never forget one ex saying this while we were watching a movie about a man living a double life: "It's her fault for believing him. What would you expect him to do but lie? She should have known better"

Sewud · 2021-11-13T23:52:32+00:00

Or how they pretend to be your friend until they can ask you out, then they literally never talk to you again when you say you value the friendship instead.

Yes this! And then they say "you're not entitled to our friendship", yeah, okay, but what we don't like is the duplicity! That they pretend to be our friend while in the back of their mind they just want to use us for girlfriends. It's so dishonest.

The way they joke that single mothers or struggling women deserve their circumstances because they should have been smarter/better in some way, but never make fun of deadbeat dads, unless they're making fun of girls for their daddy issues.

This is the worst! So many guys say they are good people and how come they can't find a girlfriend, but then they talk about single moms like that, saying they need to "take responsibility for choosing to reproduce with bad men". Talk about lacking empathy!

peachtartx · 2021-11-14T13:21:29+00:00

The problem with half of Gen Z/millennial men is that they’ve never had to struggle. Granted, the economy does suck. It’s super hard for many people to get jobs that pay them super well. But so many guys are CHOOSING to live with their parents, when they could provide for themselves and basically have Peter Pan syndrome. They think they have forever to decide what they want to do with their lives so they sit at home, rent and responsibility free. Some of them have trouble finding work, but some of them have jobs and still opt to do this and have someone else take care of them, just expecting their folks will be okay with this forever.

It is hard out there, I know firsthand some of the economic things people have had to deal with. But I live on my own, I try to be as self-sufficient as possible and only call my parents if my car breaks down or something. The amount of guys my age who have no desire for independence is just embarrassing. Like get your own place, even if it’s with roommates. Why, at 25+ do you still want to live in your childhood bedroom? I’m not going to bang you under the same roof as your folks- forget it. I wouldn’t want someone to do that if the roles were reversed.

I don’t understand why these guys are so afraid to be adults, except that they’re too coddled and spoiled to know how to wash their own underwear, or they realize that they can’t just coast like they’ve been doing. What is the point of life if you just spend it playing video games and smoking weed at mommy’s house?

TheKindOfGirl · 2021-11-13T22:12:04+00:00

I know my comment is going to get removed, because I am a very new member. But I want to give you adivse:

Seek more validation from women and girls than from men and boys.

Ignorance is not a bliss, we are all in the same boat. Women and girls make up 50 % of the worlds population, we are many faces, many voices and many hearts. We are funny, witty, smart, brave, alive and happy. Get to know us. We are not only on this sub, we are everywhere in the real world. And the kind of men you are speaking of are really stupid. They are scrotes and just want as validation from other men as pickmeishas want.

I send you love, happiness, feminism and a lot of empathy. We can work on creating the live we want, by prioritizing women and girls (only the not pickmeisha ones) and have fun. I make fun of scrotes, they are not worth beeing sad over. Get to know yourself, life is full of love and so worth living. Here a picture of a cute puppy ✨

pukubr · 2021-11-14T00:44:15+00:00

Men know, they know that women not knowing and living in ignorance does them a world of good, so there is NO INCENTIVE for them to help us.

The good thing is, we can see how our beliefs change our lives.

Believing there are good men:

- leads to getting taken advantaged of, harmed, or worse

Believing men are shit, that do this on purpose:

- protecting your own bag and living a luxurious life.

So you know what, why should we buy into their crappy idea of romance. It does no good. It's like those incels who take the "redpill" and find out all women want sex with the best men, so they work on appearing alpha, handsome, and their careers and all of a sudden they get that sex they've been coveting for so long.

I feel like this is its own pill in a way, once you see that everything we've been taught by society is backwards, opposite, for the men's benefit etc. Even in the most benign things like "the wage gap exists because women choose useless degrees and useless jobs" yeah, but consider **who decided these careers were useless? Who decided they can be low paying?** You'll see it everywhere the patriarchal brainwashing, and how they squash questions you'd never think to ask. Like, are women more stupid, or are they just burdened with more housework to pursue degrees, and are they just steamrolled by emotional and aggressive men, so for their safety they aquiesce and say men are always right?

Softrito · 2021-11-14T06:16:21+00:00

I saw a Reddit post this morning of a female streamer doing a reaction video and the men were vile. Saying things like they wished to punch her face and how this proved women weren't funny; she was just doing a reaction video for fun! What is wrong with these dudes?

Uruzdottir · 2021-11-14T02:36:42+00:00

I've heard the whole, "men have it worse because they can't express their feelings" line of reasoning before. People who think that conveniently overlook the fact that women aren't allowed to express their feelings, either. Instead, women are expected to put up a convincing pretense that we are feeling the "appropriate" emotions in a given situation, whether we are or not.

I would find it a relief to be able to stand there impassively, rather than feeling pressured into enacting a bunch of insincere thespian bullshit. One, I just don't care about a lot of the stuff I'm "supposed" to care about, and two, my feelings are nobody's business unless I choose to make it their business.

TheKarenFromHell · 2021-11-13T23:08:51+00:00

One of the green flags of my boyfriend who I met pre-FDS and pre-feminism is he stopped resisting feminism once I got into it VERY quickly. He immediately looked into it (we were both pretty uninvolved and uninformed) and said yeah, most men are awful. I see why you care and I’m going to try to help.

That’s the response you need. Yeah, he could be lying, but the vast majority of even “good men” will pitch a fit if you say anything remotely feminist. I am vehemently feminist, like actual women’s liberation feminist, and he is at least verbally on board.

Unfortunately the bar is very low, and it is significant that he has even gotten that far.

TheShellsBySeashore · 2021-11-13T23:44:47+00:00

I know how you feel. I used to be the kind of girl who would push hard to see the good in men, or I would try to act as though the ordinary guy, the cashier, the Uber driver, the construction worker, the faucet changer, they were all different from the yahoos online. They were healthy, good, normal men.

I just can't do it anymore. I know it is not true. I am happily single and I don't even crave a relationship with a man anymore. I can't, not when I have seen what men are. I just cannot do it. And yeah - the fact that men KNOW and are offended when women protect themselves is the rotten cherry on the vomit sundae.

heytherecomputer · 2021-11-14T03:00:14+00:00

I’ve recently come to terms with the fact that most men will never ever fully examine their relationship with the patriarchy. Ever since I woke up a couple months ago, I’ve been having full-on breakdowns because I realize that I’ve been treated less than by almost every cisgender man that I’ve met in my life. The only ones worth a damn in my life were either born female, are gay, or is my brother. Every single man outside of those categories has belittled me, abused me, or at the very least thrown micro aggressions my way constantly and I’m so, so tired. I can’t take it anymore. I can’t take how little men care about how society treats us.

Most men do not care enough to be more than just decent. They are mean, callous, dismissive, and/or see us as nothing more than someone to fuck. And I’m frankly exhausted having to justify my existence when men are the ones that ruin our society. We have been picking up their messes for all of history and we don’t get thanked in any meaningful way. In fact, they hate us for it. They call us bitches and whores when we stand up for ourselves, tell us how much they hate us and call it BDSM(!!!!), talk over us, watch violent porn, and some have the absolute audacity to call themselves feminists.

I just can’t anymore.

cutiebranch · 2021-11-14T17:02:39+00:00

Yep. I know a couple of comparatively “good” guys and their overall behavior and just ignorance of women’s issues would get them flagged as a raging racist if they were talking the same about a man who was a different race

grown-not-made · 2021-11-13T22:26:23+00:00

I found FDS about two weeks ago. Ever since, I've mentally gone through all my past relationships and romantic/sexual interactions with men and, holy cow, even the guys I thought were "nice" and "decent", had tons of red flags, and only now I realize I probably should have walked away at the first sign of their shitty behavior. I'm glad I found FDS, but it saddens and terrifies me that even the seemingly "good" guys exhibit so much deeply rooted sexism and violence towards women.

extragouda · 2021-11-14T02:10:51+00:00

Those guys who say they are "feminist"... they need to prove it.

NitzMitzTrix · 2021-11-14T01:49:07+00:00

Being up to date with what redpillers and incels and the like say is the best way to keep yourself safe. These bitter scrotes say what all men think.

BedazzledSwashbuckle · 2021-11-14T00:12:13+00:00

There are good men, but they're still mentally hierarchical to some degree. I've never met a man for whom sizing up and ranking every man (and sometimes woman) in the room immediately isn't an automatic thing. It's just a male mentality thing, I've decided.

Frankly, a lot of "having good self-esteem" in a woman is not horribly different than showing up to your puppy training session with the same calm, in-charge demeanor and setting down your limits. You show up calm, in charge, acting like you can see into his head, and clear on what you are going to ask of him. I know it sounds a bit demeaning to him, but to my utter shock, the mindset works like a charm across countries and culture and religions and age groups. It's what good men respond to and bad men run from.

What I don't think exists - or I haven't seen it - is a man who you can totally relax and let your weakest, worst, most shattered emotional intestines drape out all over the floor - and have him consistently and patiently nurse you back to health. I've heard stories of it, and seen it periodically with physical trauma or injury, but I haven't seen it with emotional trauma. He's not going to replace your mom and he's not going to be your girlfriend. So the whole soulmate thing that we envision is unlikely to fit even a great partner for you if you're basing your wish list on the close female friendships in your life.

Defiant_Marsupial123 · 2021-11-14T00:24:58+00:00

Most men are bad people, and the ones that aren't get cornered by the dudebro mafia until they are.

TrailRunWithPuppies · 2021-11-13T23:14:38+00:00

I've met few men who seemed at the time very amazing in my brief interactions with them. I have NO idea how they are with their wives in private, but I have met the wives. Both the men love to cook, care for their wives, and ALSO have high level positions. One is a doctor, the other is the head of the state department of which he works. They both dote on their wives. I have not seen shenanigans yet. Sadly, they are less than I can count on one hand, and in my entire life, that's all I have.

What sucks about therapists, and many of them do this, is the flipping of the script. Many US based therapists do this because it is all they know, and I do not consider them, as someone who went to school at a top R1 school for more than one subject, worth their weight in, whatever. Sure they are well meaning, but they fail time and time again. Many reading this have experienced this--I know this as fact.You could go to your therapist and share everything you just did above. Maybe you only share TWO things--that you have never had a good experience in dating. Your therapist will tell you "not al men."

On dating apps, many of us know and have lamented that there are nothing but poly and couples looking for a third. That is ALL that exists in my area. Couples, poly, and the "sportsman" type. And I live in a major metro city. I play instruments, sing, do art, volunteer, and so much more. I cannot even FIND someone up to my range, not even close. But like many of you, if you say, "couples will not leave me alone on dating apps" I bet money your therapist says either "not all couples!" or the classic, "I have a friend who is poly and I love her!" Well, well, I bet you are not poly, and if you are, I am not interested in your swinger lifestyle. Push that right back on your therapist. Then walk out the door and find someone who is not guilty, GUILTY of transference. Many therapists have trauma. As an aside, they do, and a good chunk cannot keep that in their own container, and are gonna put their own chit on you. Watch out for it.

With that being said, I find in my long winded comment that I am sick, SICK and tired of being told I have to exist in this fantasyland of some good people that I have never experienced. It does not mean I write people off but when has it been the norm or a larger number, or the majority of the time, when this has not been the case?

I refuse to live in fantasyland. I have spent long enough, at the hands of damaging therapists, trying to live my life in a world that simply does not exist.

It took me changing careers to Psychology to finally realize what the hell was going on.

Sartre once said, "Hell is other people."

What he should have said, is "Hell is men."

IchBinPlatzEinsJa · 2021-11-14T01:54:04+00:00

Of course they know, you’re right. They will never care because anything that isn’t simple or to their benefit annoys them. How many times have we all had a man argue when we tell them how they’ve made us feel disrespected, scared, embarrassed? How many times have we all had men argue that „that didn’t happen“ when we relay an experience that happened and they weren’t even there to witness but act like they were? How many times have men ogled other women and told their significant other it’s „not real“ „not like he cheated“ when he’s told how rude and demeaning that is? They definitely know.

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undergroundPipe · 2021-11-13T22:33:54+00:00

I will never settle down in a relationship with a man because of all these exact things. Thank you for sharing. I’m sorry you are mistreated

LadyM2 · 2021-11-14T00:35:11+00:00

no there isn't. you are totally right.

Stonerscoed · 2021-11-14T00:13:21+00:00

I have had a man as friend, but he was definitely a misogynist. That’s why we were honest friends because I could call him out on misogyny and ask him for his honest feedback on other male misogyny.

I think he helped me recognize the different type of men and identify the qualities that I wanted in my husband. However, he dumped me as a friend when his (possibly former) girlfriend asked me for advice on his abusive behavior. She asked me if his former girlfriends complained about physical abuse and I told her, although I was his friend, if he hit her she should leave. I guess that got back to him because he stopped talking to me after that.

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Aviendah_Fan_Club · 2021-11-13T22:04:43+00:00

I mean, you pretty much nailed it there.

ErikaNaumann · 2021-11-15T12:48:08+00:00

I think most people (both men and women) are just meh. Neither good nor evil. Meh.

And then you have the outliers, the great people, and the fucking horrible psychopaths.

It is our job to choose wisely. A small circle of great people around us is better than a large circle of meh people.

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2021-11-14T00:50:34+00:00

[permanently deleted]

Title	I feel like there are no good men
Author	biwinny
Upvotes	1465
Comments	116
Date	November 13, 2021 9:50 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/FemaleDatingStrategy
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/comments/qtb01e/i_feel_like_there_are_no_good_men/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/FemaleDatingStrategy/i-feel-like-there-are-no-good-men.1084244 https://theredarchive.com/post/1084244

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