Wow, what logic!

ziggmuff · 2021-09-13T09:35:13+00:00

Feminists, whether they want to admit it or not only see the top 10% of men and use it as a baseline to determine how good every mans life is. Its a generalizing, monolithic and misandrist way of seeing things

edit: top 0.000011 men, needed a little more realism

Youneekuser8 · 2021-09-13T09:32:17+00:00

Yes. The key to success. Work hard. Stay focused. Dont die. And be accused of rape.

Common sense

OblongConsistency · 2021-09-13T09:30:48+00:00

Yes, because every man is a Trump or a Kavanagh.

SilverBackBonobo · 2021-09-13T09:34:42+00:00

Find two (somewhat) exceptions to the rule and you can knock down any argument:

"Lady Gaga and Amy Schumer have been raped, don't you ever tell me that rape impacts women's mental health and success"

michaelscott1776 · 2021-09-13T10:50:39+00:00

Okay so by this logic if a woman is raped it shouldn't affect her at all cause there's plenty of successful women who have been raped

mikesteane · 2021-09-13T10:41:52+00:00

I wonder why she didn't use Bill Clinton as her example.

dzkrf · 2021-09-13T10:09:49+00:00

Cuomo?

CyclopeWarrior · 2021-09-13T10:10:17+00:00

Haha by those logics any survivor is just an example that the crime doesn't exist.

mBBurns · 2021-09-13T17:18:35+00:00

Wait two people overcame allegations? I guess rape accusations have zero effect - twitter

richasalannister · 2021-09-13T10:02:39+00:00

Sounds like more of a class issue.

masterdarthrevan · 2021-09-13T10:47:12+00:00

Yea, use famous ppl to prove your point about regular dudes. Fking moron

Dwaynedibley24601 · 2021-09-13T11:23:19+00:00

Thomas Kennedy

Thomas Kennedy was accused of rape by his daughter on several occasions. Based on the sensitivity of the claims and the seemingly authentic evidence, Thomas was sentenced to 15 years in prison. However, after nine long years, Thomas’ daughter confessed that the physical pieces of evidence of that put Thomas away were caused by an elementary school boy that she was having relations with. As the boy was an adult at the point of her confession, he substantiated the claim, releasing Thomas from prison.

While Thomas is a free man today, he can never get back those nine years; and in the minds of some, he will always be a rapist despite his innocence.

Nora Wall

Nora Wall was an Irish Catholic nun working for the Sisters of Mercy who was wrongfully accused of rape in June of 1999. The women who accused her stated that she had raped them six years before the charge, claiming that they had forgotten the incident due to repressed memories. She was convicted to a life sentence, in which she served four days. After four days of imprisonment, one of the women who accused Nora of the incident stated that she had also been raped by a black man in Leicester Square. This cast doubt on her statements about Nora, and the other accuser eventually said she had made up her allegations.

While the accusations were false, the hatred Nora faced after the conviction was fierce. Some news outlets called Nora names like “Mercy Devil,” “Vile/Pervert Nun,” and stated the girls had been “Raped by the Anti-Christ.”

Despite these claims, once Nora was found innocent, she said that she would probably never work again because no job would take her regardless of her innocence. Publications did not apologize for their scathing remarks on the day of her conviction.

Daniel Hubbard

In May 2018, a Texas police officer by the name of Daniel Hubbard made a routine DUI stop which resulted in the arrest of a 37-year-old woman. The day after the arrest, Daniel was surprised to receive an official statement from a civil rights attorney on behalf of the woman he arrested the day before. The statement claimed that Daniel had told the woman that she could get out of her DUI charge if she performed sexual favors.

The media went wild, claiming that another cop had used his power to take advantage of a civilian. However, after a thorough investigation of the trooper’s dashboard and body cameras, the police released a lengthy video of the arrest that proved that Daniel Hubbard had upheld his duties as a cop.

While Daniel was never in fear of being convicted, the public had already lambasted him for inappropriate sexual behavior that he never committed.

AskingToFeminists · 2021-09-13T10:53:32+00:00

Well, my friend John swam in the middle of alligators and came out unharmed. Don't ever tell me that alligators kill people.

PennyFeatherIX · 2021-09-13T15:24:06+00:00

That's called cherry picking

Lasttoflinch · 2021-09-13T11:01:23+00:00

Elizabeth II was accused of being a lizard and she became the longest reigning British monarch.

Keyphrase: accused of

WoodenPackage0 · 2021-09-13T13:57:06+00:00

Miss Gate and miss Bezos are one of the richest persons in the world, and never worked to build their fortune Don't ever fucking tell me that women earn less for the same work. Can you think about a more stupid way to do the demonstration?

McFeely_Smackup · 2021-09-13T16:03:36+00:00

Even though 2 of the three women who accused Kavanaugh admitted they lied about it for political reasons, and the 3rd's own witnesses said it didn't happen, Kavanaugh's name is still thrown around as "rapist"

I'll go so far as to say if an accused mans name is able to be used as an example of "accusations dont' ruin lives" then they've refuted their own argument...they did use his name after all.

maluminse · 2021-09-13T14:39:37+00:00

Chicken or the egg...

Run for office and you will be accused.

Do anything the establishment doesnt like and you will be accused by someone from long ago that didnt make claim until you ran for office or made other action.

Julian Assange...

Of course Bret Kavanaughs accuser didnt want to go further.

Notice they left out Biden. Biased, bias meme.

MrSalvos · 2021-09-13T14:43:38+00:00

Not everyone believed the rape charges
They are rich and powerful unlike most people.

Mythandros · 2021-09-13T15:29:57+00:00

Applying 2 exceptions to the rule and treating them as examples of the rule. Yup, this level of stupidity can only come from a feminist.

Ill-Discussion3408 · 2021-09-13T17:19:32+00:00

If i accused you of pedaphila in public and acted out of control full of rage about it then everyone there would instantly assume your a pedo. If you had physical proof that you wernt and pulled it out on the spot everyone that heard me and didnt bother looking at your proof still think your disgusting. They tell there friends. Posts are made online about it and generally the stigma is there forever

Credible_Cognition · 2021-09-13T17:34:33+00:00

>two examples of baseless accusations not ruining a man's life
>sufficient to say accusations never ruin a man's life

Like... this is how-not-to-generalize 101. Sometimes accusations don't do shit, sometimes they do. We don't need to put all our eggs in one basket.

suicidemeteor · 2021-09-13T20:03:21+00:00

Cleopatra ruled Egypt despite being a woman

Catherine the Great ruled Russia despite being a woman

Don't ever tell me women were oppressed

Kindly-Town · 2021-09-13T09:50:48+00:00

Proceeds to vote for Biden.

day5tar · 2021-09-13T11:16:32+00:00

These are the same people that say blm and don’t know that white women used to falsely accuse black men to get them lynched.

Dwaynedibley24601 · 2021-09-13T11:25:34+00:00

https://www.worcesternews.co.uk/news/19159442.crime-files-false-rape-allegations-ruined-life/

rockafault · 2021-09-13T15:54:41+00:00

Jeff Bezos had billions of dollars after his divorce,

Robin Williams was starring in films after four marriages,

Don't ever fucking tell me that divorces ruin a man's life.

I can smell the gas from here.

Reddit1984Censorship · 2021-09-13T17:01:47+00:00

Translation: top 0.000001% of men = all men

BlackVendaeta · 2021-09-13T17:06:25+00:00

Huh, it's almost like men in power can avoid criminal charges.

Wowza, what a concept

SerenityElixir · 2021-09-13T10:53:43+00:00

It couldn't possibly be that no matter what sex you are, money wins the day. But we are not here to use logic are we, we are here to win an argument no matter what.

WornBlueCarpet · 2021-09-13T17:16:29+00:00

Yes, and I know of a guy who smoked a pack a day, and he lived to be 96. Clearly, smoking is harmless.

GG1312 · 2021-09-13T18:54:52+00:00

And then watch them go apeshit when you apply the same logic to sexual assault on females.

Dwaynedibley24601 · 2021-09-13T11:22:11+00:00

That is the DUMBEST thing I have ever read, (and this IS Reddit)

Batbuckleyourpants · 2021-09-13T10:42:37+00:00

Thank God Biden has never been accused of being a creep. /S

Hellfang1 · 2021-09-13T13:05:34+00:00

They do ruin a man's life.

1.] Trump didn't do shit.
2.] Brett didn't do shit.

The smart sane people know this. Do you think either will outlive the accusation? no ... they will be screamed at and taunted the rest of their live and their children may face it too. They already go after barron and he is just an innocent kid. One dumbass feminazi reporter called him a soon to be rapist.

Trump and Brett have it a little better than the average man because they have support. Men like us in communities do not and women go out of their way to accuse you and ruin your life before your even in middle school nowadays. As a simple man you are labeled evil and a potential rapist according to #killallmen. Trump and Brett went through hell.

Democrat men though? They get away with hell. Cuomo, weinstien, epstien, ect.

yoitsericc · 2021-09-13T13:20:25+00:00

I survived a car accident, therefore car accidents are great and we should all crash our cars!

That's how stupid this sounds.

Daktush · 2021-09-13T15:38:58+00:00

It was the other way around. They became successful then were accused by women that tried to bring them down

auMatech · 2021-09-13T18:18:50+00:00

Apex fallacy.

Fact is, that had kavanaugh never gone for the position, he would have never been falsely accused.

Also funny how dismissively those false accusations are being acknowledged in the image... Especially given how livid people were at the time when anyone dared question the accusations...

To verify them as false now, but dismiss them, claiming that in two cases, where one person's reputation was irreparably damaged (though the damage has been mitigated -- kavanaugh), is a kick in the teeth for everyone who has killed themselves due to false accusations

MezzaCorux · 2021-09-13T10:42:34+00:00

First off, Brett Kavanaugh did have his life ruined. The man was fucking crying and it probably ruined a lot of relationships. Secondly, Trump is used to that kind of publicity having spent a ton of time as a reality TV star. Lastly, literally anyone with wealth and influence is going to have an easier time overcoming these types of things but unfortunately for most men can’t hire a PR person to book them interviews or go on talk shows to regain their reputation. And even after all that those men are still stained with that accusation no matter what.

mypasswordisnot38838 · 2021-09-13T09:31:00+00:00

I hope that post was ironic

Felarhin · 2021-09-13T10:41:14+00:00

They ruin your life if you're poor. At a low enough level, you're likely to get fired for saying hi to the wrong woman.

TheFyree · 2021-09-13T10:24:42+00:00

I’m sure some people who have been raped then went on to achieve great things. Using this persons logic, rape doesn’t ruin somebody’s life.

BeNice_777 · 2021-09-13T11:42:54+00:00

Or, it's possible that neither of these men was guilty of anything and that the political nature of their positions prompted malicious actors to make false accusations.

This is what due process is all about despite what pound me too wannabe's believe.

MastermindX · 2021-09-13T10:38:39+00:00

Just be a billionaire and you'll be fine.

Dwaynedibley24601 · 2021-09-13T11:24:11+00:00

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-surrey-11676804

Dwaynedibley24601 · 2021-09-13T11:26:15+00:00

https://www.mondaq.com/australia/crime/1088730/false-sexual-assault-allegation-ruins-his-life

jkcadmium · 2021-09-13T12:57:00+00:00

All after the fact or while campaigning.

jmcsquared · 2021-09-13T13:30:01+00:00

Goddamn that's infinitely stupid.

Hasty generalization seems to be feminism's favorite fallacy.

Scambucha · 2021-09-13T16:05:57+00:00

Who’s that one guy that recently got out of prison after 20 years or so for a false respect accusation? The man’s entire youth was stolen.

ripyourlungsdave · 2021-09-13T16:18:42+00:00

Man. If 2 men, both born with incredibly powerful connections, can get away with it obviously every man can.

It’s the same logic as people who say that men have had a great all throughout history.

Which, no. 99% of men have been toiling away at incredibly dangerous manual labor jobs that they don’t get paid shit for, while a tiny percentage of men ran the world on their workers backs. Powerful people being men doesn’t mean all men are given innate power in the world.

CanniBal1320 · 2021-09-13T17:29:53+00:00

Well I m not Trump or something. I m a normal guy. And my life will be definitely ruined by a false accusation.

scorpio_october · 2021-09-13T17:57:47+00:00

Lol so what about all the African American men who were lyched over false accusations of raping white women in the early 1900’s

SirNicoli22 · 2021-09-13T18:07:23+00:00

Key word here being accused.

Swingstar731 · 2021-09-13T21:43:38+00:00

I was falsely accused and my life is still I ruins 12 years later but you don't hear about me because of it.

ThrowAway640KB · 2021-09-13T21:58:37+00:00

A beautiful example of the Apex Fallacy. Pretty well textbook, too.

Lethal_Ledgend · 2021-09-13T23:48:25+00:00

Both of those accusations were quickly proven false and were obviously politically motivated that's why neither stuck. The two victims were also rich as fuck and were pre lawyered up. And yet dispite the accusations being proven false there are people in the world who will forever believe these men are guilty. That's not going to affect these men as much as it would other men, but it's certainly not something anyone inocent if such crimes deserves to bear.

alexius339 · 2021-09-13T23:52:41+00:00

Someone tell her about Sienna May, Carti B and Zoe Laverne. All rapists and assaulters yet enjoy high levels of success and fame.

Vidar34 · 2021-09-13T23:53:43+00:00

"Hey, these people survived lightning strikes, therefore electrocution doesn't kill people. Go stick a fork in that electric outlet."

That's the same sort of logic.

Drunkensquidman · 2021-09-14T01:40:37+00:00

I learned what apex fallacy meant today.

Thanks guys,

2021-09-14T03:06:47+00:00

This is stupid logic.

You could make the same argument that Rihanna getting beat was good for her career.

StudentOfTheTruth0 · 2021-09-14T23:09:02+00:00

BTW, in case of Kavanaugh there was zero evidence. Christine Blasey Ford perjured herself and was never called out on it. Everybody she named as witnesses never remembered even that there had been a party let alone being there. The FBI interrogated hundreds of people about Kavanaugh and no evidence ever came up.

Jackoffalltrades89 · 2021-09-16T00:09:05+00:00

Note also the not-so-subtle continuation of the accusations. Donald Trump was FALSELY accused. Brett Kavanaugh was FALSELY accused. Strange how that one word keeps getting conveniently dropped. I'm sure it's just an error with their spell-checker.

MMZEren · 2021-09-13T11:27:48+00:00

I bet she’s braindead. Gotta be, right?

Dwaynedibley24601 · 2021-09-13T11:24:57+00:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWGwCOi5XAI

rainbow_bro_bot · 2021-09-13T12:25:00+00:00

Unfortunately not every man on the street has the money and power and lawyers Trump has.

sgt_oddball_17 · 2021-09-13T13:27:39+00:00

Yeah, the "Trump raised up a BOLTED-DOWN AIRPLANE ARMREST" was sooooo believable. /s

And that "little girl voice" from "Dr. Ford" . . . not fake at all! /s x2

Jay-Ames · 2021-09-13T12:01:34+00:00

The stupidity is incredible. This person needs two hours to watch the program 60 minutes

shhthead · 2021-09-13T11:42:26+00:00

Omg… dumbass woman misses the key point. $$$$$

$$ keeps you out of jail.

Someone like me would go to jail bc I don’t have 30 lawyers at $900/hr each

PrimoXiAlpha · 2021-09-13T11:50:19+00:00

Bro imagine looking at a successful woman that got raped, and saying "don't ever tell me rape ruins lives". Fucking assholes istg.

Stinkfist46and2 · 2021-09-13T12:28:03+00:00

Guess we know which way she votes

KingMitchelson · 2021-09-13T12:50:07+00:00

Because every man on earth is wealthy.

ZebraLionFish · 2021-09-13T13:10:59+00:00

Conveniently forgetting that these were FALSE allegations.

Ivebeengnomed · 2021-09-13T13:41:58+00:00

Rich and powerful people can avoid the repercussions of their terrible actions? Who would have thought!

ubertrashcat · 2021-09-13T14:09:08+00:00

Isn't it the case that Kavanaugh is now permanently publicly labeled as a rapist without any evidence? I don't care what position he holds, he's probably lost the regard of many people he cared for. Doesn't sound like a fun life.

skellious · 2021-09-13T14:12:06+00:00

"My friend was raped but she totally recovered and says she isn't phased by the experience, therefore rape isn't that bad."

There we go. Solved.

forzion_no_mouse · 2021-09-13T16:52:50+00:00

Funny how the conservative judges assault just one woman decades ago and are lucky enough that the women didn't tell anyone until right before their confirmation

AnotherRichard827379 · 2021-09-13T12:13:59+00:00

Apex fallacy.

kanaka_maalea · 2021-09-13T11:27:10+00:00

Everyone knows your life begins and ends with your career, so..... yeah they're fine. There was no strain on the family or another personal relationships at all.

LeFatPogger · 2021-09-13T12:00:03+00:00

It makes sense actually. But only for those particular people, not everyone.

usku · 2021-09-13T13:47:58+00:00

Well, provided you have more money then the false accuser.

Then maybe, but not likely.

ButDidYouDie55 · 2021-09-13T16:16:32+00:00

Our current president too

soczewka · 2021-09-13T11:29:40+00:00

despite

belabacsijolvan · 2021-09-13T12:08:19+00:00

Maybe if a man has more morally advanced friends and relations than those, he loses more.

criolle · 2021-09-13T12:25:54+00:00

Brian Banks was accused.
Shawn Oakman was accused.

AwYeahRightoMate · 2021-09-13T13:23:00+00:00

Both of these men have wealth.

kevans2 · 2021-09-13T14:16:44+00:00

For poor men it ruins their life.

ApprehensiveMail8 · 2021-09-13T14:17:14+00:00

Those accusations ruined the lives of Billy Bush and Mark Judge, respectively.

untitiled_k1ller · 2021-09-13T14:18:42+00:00

Shorty gave 2 examples of pretty rare cases and put that as the standard for every male

TheChocolateBarsGuy · 2021-09-13T14:21:30+00:00

Ah yes anecdotes. A sample of two rich men who can afford all the fucking allegation in the world because they do not even need fucking jobs to survive.

What do you expect from brainwashed stupid people !

ZayFrames · 2021-09-13T14:36:11+00:00

Maybe don’t make false accusations against men that are not in power

JustgoofinMTG · 2021-09-13T15:08:34+00:00

Those men had massive wealth and connections. A false accusation can ABSOLUTELY ruin a poor man.

Atomiic1 · 2021-09-13T15:51:16+00:00

Ah yes, famous so and so was accused and they didn't get jail time.

Slim9canada · 2021-09-13T15:52:29+00:00

Why is this post up here?

TwinSong · 2021-09-13T15:54:05+00:00

When you're wealthy everything washes off.

xRiTd · 2021-09-13T16:30:14+00:00

It’s almost like baseless accusations have less effect on men in power and fame

mangokushpacha · 2021-09-13T16:35:38+00:00

They can't see the pattern: rich men.

rationalobjector · 2021-09-13T16:43:13+00:00

Those guys were rich though so could afford lawyers

Dramatic-Ad2098 · 2021-09-13T18:19:47+00:00

Accusations/sexual assault doesn't apply to the powerful.

Cao_Cao_2 · 2021-09-13T19:19:53+00:00

It's not like they already had a huge amount of support

InformalCriticism · 2021-09-13T20:14:19+00:00

It's an inverse bell curve. The most vulnerable men get destroyed easily without legal representation, and the most powerful men attract them like flies to an open wound.

mr2jay · 2021-09-13T20:30:49+00:00

Lol if they can name 2 examples don't you dare say they wrong

Dr-Plague-Channel · 2021-09-13T20:44:05+00:00

These men have power and influence thats why their lives are not ruined

erdtirdmans · 2021-09-13T20:44:48+00:00

Logic has rarely been a feature of large-scale sociopolitical discussions in my lifetime

m0mmyneedsabeer · 2021-09-13T21:48:18+00:00

That's because these men have privilege. They cant compare normal men to these men. And to minimize the issue of false accusations is just disgusting.

brunomarswifey · 2021-09-13T22:00:49+00:00

whos brett

UppedSolution77 · 2021-09-13T22:05:48+00:00

That's the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard. Cherry pick 2 examples, then apply that to the rest of the WORLD. Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg dropped out of university and are now billionaires, don't ever tell me that dropping out of college doesn't make you a billionaire.

I recognize troll posts quite often when I see them and I'm not sure if this is one. Like it may actually be real, someone may actually be... that fucking stupid. It's a scary world we live in.

AtemAndrew · 2021-09-13T22:19:27+00:00

Meanwhile: Johnny Depp, Bill Cosby, etc.

crusadingRABBIT · 2021-09-13T22:22:28+00:00

And look how many lawyer, millions of dollars, and stress they had to fight through just to fight those accusations…

EgalitarianFacts · 2021-09-13T22:22:35+00:00

Well, moron, doncha know that when super rich and powerful men get away with stuff that means everyone with a penis always gets away will all evil stuff they do, you fucking rapist misogynist! DUH? /s

Imagine how dumb you'd have to be to believe that shit. Just try...

Chuy-IsSmall · 2021-09-13T22:25:08+00:00

Newsflash. Not every man is a billionaire.

thedoze · 2021-09-13T22:27:03+00:00

By that logic I'm as rich and powerful as those two assholes.

2021-09-13T22:36:33+00:00

So because they got the job anyways it was okay to lob false accusations at them? What about all the men who get divorced, lose their jobs or kill themselves?

dungeonmonkey69 · 2021-09-14T00:42:08+00:00

It's like they're jussssssst on the edge of class consciousness and then fall flat on their own prejudices

TracyMorganFreeman · 2021-09-14T00:48:24+00:00

By the same logic, if you ever find an instance of consensual sex, rape must not exist.

Heroin_addict69 · 2021-09-14T01:33:38+00:00

They were both powerful men with the ability to make anything go away. Unfortunately, normal men don't have any such power

war_m0nger69 · 2021-09-14T02:35:14+00:00

Tell that to Emmett Till.

corn__dog · 2021-09-14T02:36:28+00:00

When you have 70 millions people who will ignore any evidence presented to them, anything can happen.

scott195 · 2021-09-14T02:56:54+00:00

I mean they have a point a lot of accusations don't ruin mens lives. Some do and its a serious issue but not all.

Futurefrog38785 · 2021-09-14T03:01:16+00:00

Oprah winfrey and lady gaga were assaulted , look at them now . Hence, sexual assault is good for women every women likes it , it makes them so good , women who are assualted are lucky ...

SwiftStrik3 · 2021-09-14T03:32:27+00:00

Oh I guess 99% of us are just subhuman trash huh?

human-potato_hybrid · 2021-09-14T03:40:41+00:00

Seems like the secret is: having obscene amounts of connections and money 🤔🤔

Just like how Cardi B (I think) said she raped/assaulted/drugged tons of guys and literally no one cared.

bigdtbone · 2021-09-14T04:06:45+00:00

Huh

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMR9ge9LC/

makemelearn · 2021-09-14T06:17:53+00:00

These are the same people who vote for them

peepeepoopoolonglive · 2021-09-14T07:07:28+00:00

Those people are fucking billionaires

GivePuppiesBazookas · 2021-09-14T17:46:07+00:00

Odd how the two mentioned people were also helping each other. Funny how often that's the case. Few guys do bad things, suddenly it's the rule for the other 99.99% of us. Yet I, a man, could not call a literal whore, a whore. Just her, not all women, just her. I would get attacked from unknown angles because pointing out onw women applies to all.. and that's exactly what feminism does, point to one man, it means all, but fuck you if you even come remotely close to doing it to them.

ZS_1171 · 2021-09-28T20:09:43+00:00

"lebron james liked basketball so he became a basketball star. dont ever fucking tell me not everyone can be a basketball."

it heavily relies on skill, coordination, height, muscle mass, and genetics.

Wild-Exam466 · 2021-10-09T20:10:53+00:00

Two exceptions don't make a rule!

savewayvfromsm · 2021-10-12T19:45:08+00:00

Are you guys missing the point on purpose

KnickkNaxx · 2021-11-21T15:08:26+00:00

Because only rich men get accused

seamusdoherty · 2021-09-13T16:14:32+00:00

1) that was very clear cherry picking and 5 year old logic. 2) those accusations were TRUE and weren’t being given to the every day man, they were being given to fucking politicians

StarSpangldBastard · 2021-09-13T22:18:44+00:00

Two big factors that help them out that don't apply to most men:

They're rich
They're republican politicians

Title	Wow, what logic!
Author	SilverBackBonobo
Upvotes	2533
Comments	366
Date	September 13, 2021 9:29 AM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/MensRights
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/MensRights/comments/pnc1zk/wow_what_logic/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/MensRights/wow-what-logic.1068962 https://theredarchive.com/post/1068962

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