Are "nice guys" only nice?

rp132 · 2015-01-30T17:29:56+00:00

RP Men, do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

Yes.

There's a bit more to it, because being openly a dick is ACTUALLY attractive to many women. I've done it, seen it, used it. I don't anymore because I don't want to bother having relationships with that kind of woman anymore, but that's the truth.

However, yeah

Archwinger · 2015-01-30T16:00:01+00:00

This isn't really news.

If a hawt guy walks up and tries to start a conversation with you, you welcome it. You even forgive him a few awkward blunders, and might even find the missteps cute and charming. Hell, he could be kind of a dick, but you'd think it's funny instead of being put off.

If a much less hawt guy did the exact same things...

You'd find the fact that he walked up and tried to talk to you creepy and annoying. His awkward blunders would make you uncomfortable and confirm how creeped out he's making you feel. If he acted douchy, you'd think he was a real asshole, and you'd run to reddit to post about how you met a terper in the wild and how his awkward bullshit doesn't work.

nopbeentheredonethat · 2015-01-30T16:28:14+00:00

Good question.

In fact without good male role model a young man will believe the "matrix" narrative and genuinely think, that being nice and sensible and a all around nice good guy he will be attractive. We can't really blame them for thinking that because that's the main narrative in our society. Those "chill" guy don't put pussy on a pedestal like the "nice" guy and they don't buy your shit. They have boundary and enough confidence to tell you to go "Fuck off" if you ever to become mean, bitchy or emotionally manipulative with them (That's what shit test are for) The chill guy also know sometime true pure instinct or from experience that "girl" are not put off by such behaviour.

LeGrandDiableBlanc · 2015-01-30T18:27:35+00:00

The thing is that it's not necessary surprising that being nice in of itself isn't enough to be attractive.

It's that people who are obnoxious assholes (the type that everyone loves to denounce and claim aren't attractive) seem to be of above average attractiveness relative to thier looks, wealth, grooming habits etc.

To be short, guys complaining about being nice are not arguing that they are owed sex out of vagina machines for inserting common courtesy coins. It's that there are so many people who are, for want of a better phrase, dark-triad-esque who manage to outperformed so-called nice guys despite being mean, talking down to people, being heavily entitled, etc.

This passage phrases the issue succinctly:

I’ve been thinking about “nice guys” lately for a couple of reasons…

…(I feel obligated to say at this point that the specific details of these patient stories are made up, and several of them are composites of multiple different people, in order to protect confidentiality. I’m preserving the general gist, nothing more)

– I had a patient, let’s call him ‘Henry’ for reasons that are to become clear, who came to hospital after being picked up for police for beating up his fifth wife.

So I asked the obvious question: “What happened to your first four wives?”

“Oh,” said the patient, “Domestic violence issues. Two of them left me. One of them I got put in jail, and she’d moved on once I got out. One I just grew tired of.”

“You’ve beaten up all five of your wives?” I asked in disbelief.

“Yeah,” he said, without sounding very apologetic.

“And why, exactly, were you beating your wife this time?” I asked.

“She was yelling at me, because I was cheating on her with one of my exes.”

“With your ex-wife? One of the ones you beat up?”

“Yeah.”

“So you beat up your wife, she left you, you married someone else, and then she came back and had an affair on the side with you?” I asked him.

“Yeah,” said Henry.

I wish, I wish I wish, that Henry was an isolated case. But he’s interesting more for his anomalously high number of victims than for the particular pattern… …Henry was the worst of a bad bunch, but nowhere near unique.

When I was younger – and I mean from teeanger hood all the way until about three years ago – I was a nice guy. In fact, I’m still a nice guy at heart, I just happen to mysteriously have picked up girlfriends. And I said the same thing as every other nice guy, which is “I am a nice guy, how come girls don’t like me?”

There seems to be some confusion about this, so let me explain what it means, to everyone, for all time.

It does not mean “I am nice in some important cosmic sense, therefore I am entitled to sex with whomever I want.”

It means: “I am a nicer guy than Henry.”

Or to spell it out very carefully, Henry clearly has no trouble with women. He has been married five times and had multiple extra-marital affairs and pre-marital partners, many of whom were well aware of his past domestic violence convictions and knew exactly what they were getting into. Meanwhile, here I was, twenty-five years old, never been on a date in my life, every time I ask someone out I get laughed at, I’m constantly teased and mocked for being a virgin and a nerd whom no one could ever love, starting to develop a serious neurosis about it.

And here I was, tried my best never to be mean to anyone, gave to charity, pursuing a productive career, worked hard to help all of my friends. I didn’t think I deserved to have the prettiest girl in school prostrate herself at my feet. But I did think I deserved to not be doing worse than Henry.

throwinout · 2015-01-30T15:49:47+00:00

tl;dr Step 1: Be attractive, Step 2: Don't be unattractive

Should be added I think.

When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least).

Well, yeah. That's what happens isn't it? An in-group forms. If a guy is an asshole to everyone else, but is nice to you (because he deems you worthy of it), is he an asshole or a nice person? Its the whole "Mean Girls" routine.

But the assumption that cute guys are jerks to gals is really overblown and not matching up with what really happens.

This is such a cop out. And then when the "unusual happens", we have to hear about "oh he was such a good person at first. He had me fooled! But he was an abuser all along!". Sure, I guess you never saw it coming and never could.

do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

I guess this is the point of TRP isn't it? We're told that personality is what matters, when it really isn't. If "lifting" and "grooming" was such ubiquitous common sense, why don't more guys do it? I guess thats where TRP fills in the cracks. Lifting and grooming is definitely not harder than getting rejected a bunch of times, or just having that general feeling bad emotions that comes with being a "nice guy". The weight room never lets you down.

The point is that these nice guys are lacking what you say women find attractive (alpha fux), until the women need a beta bucks.

Dirk-Killington · 2015-01-30T16:28:04+00:00

I like Jenna's take on this subject. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3VXXXX9iVPI

I think the whole "hot girls only like assholes" thing is complete total projection. It's just unattractive people trying to find something in successful, attractive people that they can point out and try to feel superior rather than actual working towards being superior.

Reginleifer · 2015-01-30T15:45:47+00:00

I also noticed that Boys X, Y, Z assumed that Boys A, B, C were all "assholes." When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least). Now perhaps they were jerks to the guys.

Could it be that "cute" men as you put it are being seen through a different lense than you would see the betas due to "giney tingles"?

Attractive people are often treated generously, are thought to be kinder, more trustworthy and more competent.

myfriendscantknow · 2015-01-30T15:52:42+00:00

I pray adults know the difference between some niceness and being a pushover.

The end of this video sticks with me, when he differentiates between being "nice" and being kind. Just generally a really good video on the subject. Also lol @ the top comment.

Pointless_Endeavors · 2015-01-30T17:00:54+00:00

I also noticed that Boys X, Y, Z assumed that Boys A, B, C were all "assholes." When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least). Now perhaps they were jerks to the guys. But the assumption that cute guys are jerks to gals is really overblown and not matching up with what really happens.

You have to understand that the way the Boys A, B, and C treat and interact with you is exactly the way Boys X, Y, and Z were told not to treat women.

And as /u/reginleifer said, theres "that "cute" men as you put it are being seen through a different lense". I very rarely hear women say men are ugly or just not attractive unless the men are truly hideous and there's no denying it. Usually, they describe ugly guys with no chance as "cute".

thereddespair · 2015-01-30T16:51:09+00:00

The XYZ guys were, mix and match: Boring, unmotivated, insecure, doesn't make moves - to the point of waiting for the woman to??? for real?, lacks character, too soft, too politically correct that they almost have no substance, no aggression, pushover - within the relationship and in their own general lives, can't lead and the woman has to take point, circumstancially lacks experience with women in general, on rare occasions that they do have opinions it sides with ideas that push for bloody loser like concepts. Their ideas of fun seem mellow and not really exciting for females. Then the lower end of the XYZs also let themselves go, justifying it with 'you will like me for what i am' mentality.

They just basically rot too long and others pass them by - the world doesn't wait for you. I can go on and on and on.

Anybody can buy a suit or hot clothes. But personality and frame of mind, that's something that just sticks. And being cute? I've been with hot people, both men and women - and some people really are just that, a pretty face but an empty person.

They seem to perceive the ABC guys as 'bad guys' as in their own lives, these same men have been the one's who tread on them and push them around - their bullies in school to their asshole bosses. It is an extra blow that they end up getting the women the ABCs like also to the point where sometimes even women they have already won over end up betraying them for the ABCs.

The world isnt just made up of the ABC and XYZ guys, there are those in the middle - the average middle ground types.

My experiences were similar to the OP with the ABC men. They're not all assholes - they can be sweet, very much smart, talented, driven, productive, competitive. It's just what XYZs tell themselves for self soothing comfort.

And no, Im not the type who shuns people coz they're XYZs. I give everyone the mic and hear what they have to say. Everyone has a story. Not the listeners fault if some have less interesting stories than others.

roe_ · 2015-01-30T18:46:31+00:00

Here's what I think should be understood about nice guys:

For whatever reason - heritability, childhood trauma, lack of proper socialization, autism - nice guys have exactly one tool with which to interact with the world. And that is being basically non-objectionable to everyone.

And... we live in a world where a person can get by on just that for a long time... Until you can't... And then it's super-frustrating, because the one tool you have doesn't work.

I'm not sure it's as much about grooming or presentation as it is about self-perception. That is - once you fix self-perception you give yourself permission to use other tools.

AFormidableContender · 2015-01-30T22:22:54+00:00

There's not much to say about this, especially after a 208 post thread. Nice guys finish last. Women want looks as much or more than men do. Being nice won't save an otherwise unattractive guy.

The only sort of controversial positions on this topic are that attractive guys do usually have sucky personalities and am the guys I've known who where really good with women generally treated women pretty badly.

The reason this is such an issue in the manosphere and popular culture is because it's counter productive. I, as a young man, uneducated in TRP, and PUA would have never thought I could treat a woman badly, but still have her want to bang me. It's enforced by popular culture that women's attraction is linked to the agrreableness of her potential partners hence the stereotype of the girl QQ about the guy she's banging cheating on her or whatever on the shoulder of her nice guy friend who's desperately in love with her.

But yea, the original question I think is uninspiring.

1.Be attractive

2.Don't be unattractive

3.?????

4.Profit

Everyone knows this.

ECoast_Man · 2015-01-31T00:38:41+00:00

Yes. You are right, dressing a certain way is a point. But these guys need to learn the attitude more than anything else.

Dressing nice is part of that.

boscoist · 2015-01-30T15:56:43+00:00

TRP Men, do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

duhhhhhhh. Thats why the first piece of advice on TRP is to lift and the second is to dress better. The rest is playing catch up on what works socially instead of having to spend years in the field trying to figure these same things out.

GridReXX · 2015-01-30T15:56:58+00:00

I think your adding a label of "nice guy" to low SMV guys. Nice guys are different, if they were given an opportunity to hook up with a woman they would fuck it up because they are pussies. It has nothing to do with what they look like and everything to do with their attitude.

YourLocalNeckbeard · 2015-01-30T18:26:43+00:00

NO. Women don't (or shouldn't) care about looks. I am not good looking, I admit this. I weigh 400 lb and hygeine isn't my strong suite. But I have an extremely high IQ, I'm kind, I'm poetic and I know how to court ladies. "Ladies" unfortunately (and I use that term loosely) have completely departed from traditional feminine tastes and now think it is within their right to have "physical preferences." Those fools! A man's class, character and IQ should be all that matters. Females, with their inferior minds and weak arms, matter only for their youth, fertility and beauty. Therfore, I, as an intelligent male, am literally entitled to hot femalse. The fact that they have the freedom to reject me based on how I look is discrimination and yet feminists do nothing about it!

DaThrowaway808 · 2015-01-30T17:19:17+00:00

I also noticed that Boys X, Y, Z assumed that Boys A, B, C were all "assholes." When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least).

I would trust the boys opinion of a boy far more than a woman's opinion. I've seen so many men whom I have been told are just the sweetest gentlemen that I have seen do some of the most fucked up shit. They either tell it to me because I'm one of the guys or the fact that I am male makes them not have to worry about showing their true colors.

Will_Im_Not · 2015-01-30T19:28:24+00:00

I think if your primary characteristic is "nice guy" then you probably don't have much else going on. It's like a default compliment, like saying a fat chick has a "great personality". If you're an attractive fun dude with a lot of hobbies you're probably not walking around talking about how nice you are.

The nicest dude I ever met was this bi dude living in LA. He was incredibly friendly, gave food to homeless people, and helped teach people his hobby (fire-spinning). But despite being the nicest person I've ever met there's still like 10 other qualities that would be more accurate in describing him.

IWasNeverHere80 · 2015-01-30T20:41:15+00:00

Some nice guys are not nice guys at all. If a "nice guy" gets mad about get friend zoned, he is not nice at all. Who doesn't like being a friend. That "nice guy" doesn't sound like he would even be a good friend. Lots and lots of successful relationships start out as friends.

purpthrowaway1 · 2015-01-30T20:53:21+00:00

"Nice guys" are trying to rationalize their actions (being nice) towards her for their entitlement for her to like him as well.

Happened to me as well. I thought she liked me. I was nice to her and she reciprocated with physical flirting (teenage years are wierd) so I thought she liked me, which led me to being even nicer to her (not wanting to upset her).

Some 'nice guys' from what I read on Reddit feel entitled to sex or something after being nice to a girl they like? Never encountered that so far in real life.

I was nice to her because I liked her, I had feelings for her. Turns out she was fucking this other guy (without my knowledge of course, else I would have dropped her in an instant) behind my back. I was completely blindsided. How could an innocent, sweet, caring, smart girl do this to me .. I thought she liked me.

Now from her perspective: unattractive friend being nice to me, okay whatever. Let's fuck this super handsome super muscled (and smart) guy and suck his dick (this is my teenage frustration speaking here, self therapy woohoo). In hindsight, he was completely more attractive than me, of course. But my stupid teenage self ('nice guy') just didn't see that. I thought that being nice was enough for a girl to like me back.

1) Be attractive

2) Don't be unattractive

3) ???

4) Profit

HalfysReddit · 2015-01-30T22:24:15+00:00

Being "nice" is a good quality to have, but if it's your defining quality then you're quite boring, and likely a doormat to boot.

I think a lot of "nice guys" over-emphasize the connection between morality and attraction, and under-emphasize the connection between appearance and attraction. They have little respect for asshole dudes, because they're not trying to fuck dudes, so they see them in a very clear light. But then they're confused why chicks don't realize these guys are assholes. And at the same time, they think that they can compensate for height or physical prowess by doing good deeds - as if the attention of women could be exchanged for karma.

That being said, I want to comment on what you wrote about guys XYZ thinking guys ABC are assholes. If it was just one dude, I'd argue that maybe he's just jelly. But if it's three dudes, and they're not social pariahs or incredibly naive or anything, then odds are guys ABC are assholes. Most people will overlook asshole behavior in those they find attractive. I saw it with all three of my sisters, I see it with my mother, I've seen it with women interacting with me, and hell I'm guilty of doing it myself. Also it doesn't matter if they're super chill and sweet to you, they want to fuck you. You think they're above faking decency to get in your pants? Look at how they treat other people, that's how you gauge whether they are assholes or not.

Petticoat_Rule · 2015-01-31T09:06:05+00:00

TRP Men, do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

But the assumption that cute guys are jerks to gals is really overblown and not matching up with what really happens.

I'm not a trper but I agree with this.

The video I'm linking to is an extreme example of a guy saying that the guys that girls go for must be assholes (because they're not choosing him) I'm sure many here have seen this by now, but it is relevant to this topic:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QqwoRR4Krfk

TekkomanKingz · 2015-02-03T19:03:02+00:00

I now know why Korean men are getting plastic surgery at record rates.

NateExMachina · 2015-02-08T09:25:32+00:00

I'm not a RP or BP but I'll give my personal experience. When I was young, I never really thought about whether I was nice or not. This wasn't a word I associated myself with.

It was women that told me I was nice. They would randomly say powerful compliments to me, like how I would make the perfect husband or how thankful they are to know me. In addition to this, they would complain about how horrible the men in their lives were.

So it's not the boys coming up with these ideas. Boys X, Y, Z were told by women that boys A, B, C were assholes. Boys X, Y, Z were told that they are nice. Boys X, Y, Z are now very confused because the same women saying these things have no interest in dating them and every interest in dating the men they said were assholes.

I also found that sometimes boys A, B, C really were assholes. I see women swooning over thugs and jocks that threaten violence against other men. I see guys talking shit about how stupid their girlfriends are and cheating on them. Some guys act very differently around women. So while it's possible that boys X, Y, Z are just butthurt, it's also possible that they know something you don't.

When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least). Now perhaps they were jerks to the guys. But the assumption that cute guys are jerks to gals is really overblown and not matching up with what really happens.

Here is your problem. Do you want to date a guy who is a jerk to other guys? He does not have empathy if he is only kind to women.

I also get the impression from your writing that you might think it's acceptable for someone to be mean, as long as they are nice to you. Imagine you are telling a black person that a guy is a jerk to black people but he's nice to white people. It's horrible, and we should acknowledge the hatred of men as horrible too. Likewise, if a girl says she doesn't like other girls, I see a red flag.

Let me describe a "super chill and sweet" guy I knew from high school. He was always kind and polite when girls were around. The girls would always smile and laugh. When it was just boys, he went nuts. He would bring back plastic butter knives from the cafeteria and try to cut people. Shortly after graduation, he murdered a man. Now he's on death row.

I know similar stories with domestic violence and rape. If I feel afraid around your guy friends, then maybe you should too, and I wouldn't want to hang around people with crazy relationships.

The point of all this is not to misrepresent the situation, but to demonstrate how very wrong our perceptions of people can be, especially when we're attracted to someone. I hope you're not dismissing all the feedback you're getting, just because someone is nice to you.

The reason why I am hammering this point is because you had the thought that maybe these attractive boys were jerks to the nice boys. There should not be confusion. If it's possible that someone is cruel, then it should be your main focus to figure out what's going on.

fiat_lux_ · 2015-01-30T16:05:08+00:00

Whereas Boys X, Y, Z could be cute if they had put effort into it, but all dressed like and looked like potato sacks because that is what happens when you don't care about those things. They didn't deem those things as important and everyone who did was "superficial" or "shallow."

I also noticed that Boys X, Y, Z assumed that Boys A, B, C were all "assholes." When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least). Now perhaps they were jerks to the guys. But the assumption that cute guys are jerks to gals is really overblown and not matching up with what really happens.

Those X, Y, Z guys sound like Holden Caufield. Too obsessive about being genuine and hostile towards "phoniness".

In any case, my experiences differ. The most popular, out-going, and well-loved person I know was obese, gay, and not that attractive. Cuteness was not the issue for women. He was just a social dominator and people generally gave him a lot more leniency in jerk behaviour.

GridReXX · 2015-01-30T17:26:03+00:00

TRP Men, do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

Yes, they do. They use "being nice" as the excuse because culture hits them upside the head with "looks don't matter, only your inner beauty matters." They see girls congratulating fat slobby girls for being fat and slobby and say, "Oh, I don't have to wear clothes that fit."

The question you're really asking is, "Does the Red Pill condemn niceness because they were all nice guys and then got screwed?" The answer is no. Girls care about attractiveness more than they do a guy's attitude. "You can't sleep with personality" is a non-gender specific statement, not just something guys say.

As mentioned below, being attractive increases the chances of being found good in numerous ratings, from work effectiveness to moral aptitude. Thats a fact. We think attractive people are nicer. They might not be, but we're genetically biased from the get go. Basically, here is the response question: how do you know the people you find cute/attractive are nice(r than average)?

an_absolute_rose · 2015-01-30T18:03:46+00:00

I've known guys, attractive guys, who I'd consider nice guys. Think Michael Cera in Superbad if you want something to picture.

These guys struggles just like less attractive nice guys.

Boundaries are meant to be broken and that's something that nice guys struggle with. They don't make romantic moves because they fear making women uncomfortable or heaven forbid being labeled a creep. Labels are powerful.

kragshot · 2015-01-30T21:22:03+00:00

TRP Men, do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

Shit...in the end; people want what people want and women typify that axiom when it comes to men. I learned that lesson the hard way when I was a sophomore in high school (in the early 80s). Then, I sat at the feet of a "retired pimp" to learn about "cool." Charm and confidence can take a man a long way in attracting a woman, but to discount the allure of "eye candy" is foolish. I knew that I wasn't the most "pretty" guy in the lineup, but I damn sure was one of the best-dressed and well-groomed." Adding an athletic build from being active in sports and being a mix DJ, pretty much told me that I could "get over" with 95% of the women that I would hit on and if I put on the "heavy sell" then I could up that to 98%.

As for "nice guys;" I found that women do not want "nice guys" because "nice" equals "boring." Besides; showing a woman respect and romance does not necessarily equate to being "nice." If a "bad boy" is "good" to his girl, then what else matters to her?

In the end; you have to "sell the product" even if the product is yourself. If you want to attract women, then you have provide what women want. What's the saying;

"Be attractive and do not be unattractive."

Aerobus · 2015-01-30T21:26:49+00:00

I also noticed that Boys X, Y, Z assumed that Boys A, B, C were all "assholes." When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least).

LOL

Now perhaps they were jerks to the guys. But the assumption that cute guys are jerks to gals is really overblown and not matching up with what really happens.

Sure ok.

TRP Men, do you think that certain "nice guys" underestimated the importance of "appearance" and "presence" and used "being nice" as the "bad guy" because it's easier to blame women than it is to "lift" or "groom" or care about style and how you look?

Yes, they do. I used to be a nice guy^TM and I didn't really think of my appearance, presence, frame, posture, physical fitness, etc as important.

Thankfully, I found TRP. It has opened my eyes. I know what I did wrong and what I need to do correctly, and I know the true nature of women.

ExpendableOne · 2015-01-30T23:40:25+00:00

Whereas Boys X, Y, Z could be cute if they had put effort into it, but all dressed like and looked like potato sacks because that is what happens when you don't care about those things.

I really don't get how you can use this as legitimate reasoning with a straight face. You would rather date assholes, instead of nice guys, because of the way they dress. That is beyond absurd. I can't even believe that actually qualifies as an excuse in the minds of people. 99% of men wouldn't think this way, because it's so ridiculous(funny how it's men who are still considered to be the objectifying ones though). They would see a pretty/nice girl, recognize that she'd be hot in anything she wears no matter what because she's pretty/nice and make the best of it. Why ruin a perfectly good thing based on something some completely superficial?

I mean, ignoring the fact that they'd probably be naked when it's time to get down to business anyway, do you not realize that "nice" is, objectively, a far more relevant and desirable trait when it comes to relationships? You could always date the nice guy and get him to dress nicer(odds are, he would be more than willing to try new stuff out, if it makes you happy, or maybe he's just very inexperienced on that front and would entirely appreciate solid guidance). The fact that he doesn't care about the way he dresses, doesn't mean that he doesn't care about how he appears to women or how he appears to the subject of his affection either. In any case, you can't get an asshole that dresses well to start being nice.

Either way, if you're trying to build a relationship, you should really try to build it on something that matters. You can build a solid relationship on niceness. You can't build a relationship on what a guy wears. It's sad that this even bares repeating but, as a general rule of thumb, you should never pick a boyfriend based on wardrobe(his or yours). I don't understand how it could be such a foreign concept to you that some men might value far more pertinent and semi-permanent traits over irrelevant and temporary conditions. Is it that hard to believe that attraction could stem from empathy, care and mutual-respect, or that women could actually put more faith and value into the qualities that actually matter?

I also noticed that Boys X, Y, Z assumed that Boys A, B, C were all "assholes." When really, Boys A, B, C were all super chill and sweet (around us ladies at least).

Why would you assume that they would just do this for no reason? Like, ignoring the fact that guys A, B and C are probably doing a lot of douchy/asshole things that those nice guys would object to on a general level that you might think are fine because you personally benefit from them(like, for instance. all the little cheats and tricks that guys might resort to to get into your pants that guys X,Y and Z would simply object to on principle alone), you have to realize that those nice guys probably see a whole other side to those men than you do, and can relate to those men on an entirely different level than you can because they are men?

Do you realize that there would be a lot of things that you would be completely oblivious to, or bad behaviours that you would justify to yourself, because you find those men attractive? Behaviours that would be blatantly obvious to any unbiased observers and that you would probably notice as well, if you weren't so busy looking at their cloths?

Those nice guys probably see a lot of shit that you don't see from those men, including all the derogatory views they might have about women when women aren't around. Generally speaking, those nice guys are calling guys A,B and C assholes for a reason. It doesn't just stem from nothing. For you to just discredit that as nothing more than "they're just bitter guys who can't get laid" is completely ridiculous, condescending and detrimental to your own best interest. Those nice guys are calling those guys assholes because they have good reasons to call them assholes. If they weren't assholes, guys X,Y and Z would be wishing that nice guy all the best(and probably very happy that such a good guy got the appreciation he deserved).

Title	Are "nice guys" only nice?
Author	GridReXX
Upvotes	18
Comments	434
Date	January 30, 2015 3:22 PM UTC (11 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/2u7c7d/are_nice_guys_only_nice/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/are-nice-guys-only-nice.283649 https://theredarchive.com/post/283649

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