Men are really disposable.

Krychek26 · 2018-06-21T13:56:45+00:00

Part of becoming a man is realising society doesn't give a fuck about you.

VermiciousKnidzz · 2018-06-21T14:52:50+00:00

Women can work for their money now.

if women being made equal to men is all it took to take away men's value, did men have much value to begin with?

I think the major whole in your argument is the fact that women are mostly valued for their appearance. that's not value, that's simple objectification.

Men are certainly more often working dangerous jobs, going to war, etc. This is because men are seen as stronger and more able to thrive in these positions, not because men are seen as disposable.

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-06-21T14:06:13+00:00

Haven't you noticed that when people treat you as disposable it says more about the person that's treating you poorly rather than you as a person?

Shitty people treat others as disposable.

Most children without dads are almost always completely fucked.

Lastly, you need to get your perspective out of a woman's vag. It seems your pissed that women come into value via youth and men have to work into their value.

I mean, you just discounted 'old women' while bitching about men being disposable...

squidracer · 2018-06-21T14:14:50+00:00

men go to college less sand therefore are less educated

Simply being "educated" does not make a person useful.

John_Strange · 2018-06-21T14:51:21+00:00

I think you're starting from a position of believing that human relationships start and end with what social or material value two partners have for one another, rather than the pleasure they can take in one another's company or the emotional connection forged by two people who care about one another. Material value is a consideration in any relationship but relationships that put too much value on it are doomed to fail or to toxicity. Women are not biological machines tearing around looking for men from whom to extract superior genetic material--they are people with agency who demonstrate a huge diversity and complexity of behaviors. It's almost impossible to refute your view--which I view as emotionally stunted and overly focused on transaction--without going after the whole ideology of redpillers.

First, the part you get right. Men are pretty clearly in the midst of a process of losing status that they traditionally enjoyed, and society is wrestling with what that will mean for men and women. Another equally important transition is taking place in the United States, as the first generation less wealthy than their parents comes of age. If both are anything like previous seismic social changes, we'll discover that despite good intentions, new problems will arise and society will be forced to adapt--but it's not the apocalyptic disaster for men that you make it out to be. Men are still employed, women are not rushing out to buy "chad sperm" by the gallon, and most heterosexual people still find their way into relationships most people would consider traditional. Believing that women are acting the way you suppose suggests that you need to talk to more women and spend less time on the internet.

Women are people. People are complicated. The reasons people want to be together are complicated. While evolutionary biology is one important explication of nature and behavior, it is one of many. Redpill ideology chooses one argument about that one explanation and uses it to paint a bleak picture about male-female relationships, specifically by reducing female behavior to a series of adversarial biological drives. There are surely women who act the way you suppose, but most women do not and even the ones who do have more complicated reasons than you afford them. An open-minded, educated person should be able to entertain an idea without accepting it, and redpillers seem incapable of doing so almost categorically.

Truthfully I believe that the stubbornness of redpillers derives from the fact that their ideology absolves them of responsibility for their failures with women. Most men struggle to relate to women, to talk to women, and to be in relationships with women because they see things differently and behave differently. This is normal and part of the human experience. What is not normal is attributing the normal anxieties associated with women and relationships to a pathological victimhood complex.

Redpillers see themselves (and especially those not converted) as at the mercy of feminism, women's biological drives, and the challenges of the modern world. Rather than adopting a thoughtful approach and grappling with the complexity of real life, Redpill's ideology presents your plight as immutable and demands that you pathologically focus on hacking women's biological drives at the expense of everything else. You cannot hack a woman's operating system--but you can be a shitty person and try to manipulate them, which will not make them like you. In this way redpillers build a completely transactional worldview that in no way models actual human behavior, and as a result, fails.

Adopting redpill's callous, emotionally immature solutions to this constructed male victimhood complex only further isolates you from human beings who don't share the ideology. It also makes you fail with women in the ways that further reinforce the ideology and your own isolation. Just like a cult, redpillers are caught in a cycle of emotional immaturity, pathological dogmatism including its own brand of jargon, and self-reinforcing rejection. And the great news is, it's never your fault because women are just that way. I mean this sincerely--breaking that cycle is going to be necessary if you're to have any chance at happiness.

So no, men are not disposable, any more than anyone else. Your value in this world is not determined by the amount of chad sperm your can produce or the number of women you callously bed. You're a human being and you're much more complicated and full of possibilities than your isolating ideology would have you believe, and the endstate of the great experiment in expanding rights, opportunities, and education to everyone is not set in stone--but nor will it mean that you're valueless as a man or as a person.

says_harsh_things · 2018-06-21T14:09:54+00:00

You are looking at women as a whole, single entity.

The government protects society as a whole, not individual women or men.

Attractive women do live life on easy street, but then again, so do attractive men. Unattractive women still have to work to find their place in life. Daniel tosh had a good line about this - ugly women are like men, theyre gonna have to work.

Disposable people is more a have/have-not issue than male/female.

I do agree that in war time, men are seen as disposable.

sublimemongrel · 2018-06-21T14:17:16+00:00

You seem to be arguing as if men have little value individually to women because traditional male roles have somehow been replaced. My opinion is that any individual women or man has little value themselves to the collective, but to other individual men and women they absolutely do. Just because I don’t “need” a man to feed, house and protect me doesn’t mean that man has no value to me, because my individual metrics of what I value in a person do not exclusively center around their ability to support my survival.

Superbadatmath · 2018-06-21T15:53:28+00:00

So the fuck what? I’m disposable, other guys sperms are higher quality than mine. That’s Mother Nature right there. What are you gonna do, shake fist at cloud?

Being disposable has its own perks. Since we’re on our own, we don’t fear walking home late at night alone. We don’t have people blowing up our phones all the time trying to split our attention. We don’t have to worry about unattractive people approaching us. We don’t have to worry about front loading our life and having to make important life choices early on. Etc.

I wake up everyday with the reality that I’m a disposable man too. But once again, so, the, fuck, what. I’m going to go places, do things, become stronger by training everyday. I’m going to be the toughest disaposable son of a bitch you’ll ever meet. If I die, so be it. At least it’ll be a release and I can come back and play this game again in 18 years. If you see the world through the frame of a woman, of course being a disposable man sucks. But you’re a man capable of giving the world the middle finger.

So the fuck what?

zeitgirl_ · 2018-06-21T14:19:10+00:00

Connection is a universal human need. Women need men for the same reasons that men need women: closeness, companionship, intimacy, safety, support, love.

Children are best raised in a two-parent household. Women need husbands and children need fathers.

Men have a higher range of IQ, which historically has correlated to inventions and economic growth. Yes, this is arguable considering women didn't have education, but we need the smartest men working on the most difficult problems.

Men have no real inherent value anymore

Stop making a comparison of value. You are brain-washed by capitalism. Every being is of equal innate value. Life is value.

blackedoutfast · 2018-06-21T17:01:32+00:00

unattractive, complete failures at life, loser men are disposable. but men who aren't complete fuckups and actually bring something to the table are very valued

wtknight · 2018-06-21T18:01:21+00:00

Men aren’t disposable in the sense that most women are still attracted to many of them and enjoy their company sexually and otherwise. If a man doesn’t want to put in the necessary work that other men are putting in to attract a woman, that’s up to him, but that doesn’t make men disposable when so many can and do attract women.

tiger1296 · 2018-06-21T17:26:44+00:00

Men have always been the providers. That's how nature made us, and that's what we've pretty much done for most of our lives. Now that women are changing their roles to becoming providers as well, they don't really need someone to provide for them when they can do it themselves.

Our values aren't dropping, just changing. Now women can be more picky in who they choose, they have room for choice, which means things like appearance takes greater precedence then the pay cheque.

AllahHatesFags · 2018-06-21T20:07:11+00:00

Yeah men are disposable and we can get rid of all them, provided you don't mind going back to the paleolithic lifestyle for a generation, then extinction.

sadomasochrist · 2018-06-21T14:30:57+00:00

There is one actual area that men are irreplaceable in. A child's biological father will invest the most in her children and the relationship without being milquetoast.

Now I understand there are guys that have no interest in raising their kids, but they're pretty rare. Or noodles with a penis that will dote on another man's children, even calling them "their children." But she'll use that guy, and will usually be disgusted by him on a visceral level. Which only furthers the idea that actual bio dad is a good deal.

If she's poor, then it might be a case of finding a guy that can finance her family. But controlling for that, the actual labor involved in raising a child, is irreplaceable, even with child support.

How much would someone have to pay you to raise their child, full time?

The women that dump their bio dads usually are doing it to escape motherhood. The guys that abandon the kids outright and hold frame or pay their $300 a month and let her handle it usually end up demolishing that woman.

Women talk a strong game about how they don't need no man with their kids, but a true single mother is the absolute lowest status for a woman and most of them are absolutely miserable.

Just like the women who open their relationships and think they're queen bee, when their men start getting partners they melt down.

Men.

Make no mistake. Your agreement to support your children, should be conditional. It is the strongest card you have, and women exploit it.

Poster515 · 2018-06-21T17:55:23+00:00

But what about when artificial wombs become a thing yada yada. My physiology professor at uni once joked "sperm is cheap, eggs are expensive". For those with minimal investment and interest in society long term beyond their own lives, agreeing with OP isn't too painful, although they'd go one step further and say women and children are of little value as well.

zeitgirl_ · Thu Jun 21 14:02:51 2018 UTC

Men have no real inherent value anymore

Y'all need to get away from this word "value". Just do away with it entirely because it's the absolute cause of your suffering.

Better yet, why don't you try to help the 5 closest people to you to improve their value?

i_have_a_semicolon · 2018-06-21T17:41:45+00:00

So I suppose you think women don't care about love, affection, attention, or sex?

KikiYuyu · 2018-06-22T01:07:58+00:00

I don't think your view can be changed until you stop being a misanthropic sociopath. If life has no value to you, you're mentally disturbed and need help.

killallthenarcs · 2018-06-21T19:13:35+00:00

Eh. if you are disposable now you likely would have been disposable back then... but also be less likely to live to enjoy a long and comfortable life.

mistresswhat · 2018-06-22T19:17:43+00:00

Guys like OP are resentful that they can't just provide XYZ tangible resources and get assigned an appropriate bangmaid. Realizing they have to build a relationship with someone they see as inherently inferior really does their head in. The result is these deeply bitter men (although OP is clearly a teenager) complaining about how unreasonable women are for wanting to marry people who actually like them and care about their thoughts.

Good romantic partners are valuable. If you're not willing to be one, you don't get to complain when no one wants to have sex or raise kids with you.

tickledpic · 2018-06-21T14:54:17+00:00

"Men have no real inherit value"

Wtf are you even on about? Each person is valuable first of all to himself, then to his family and community.

Each persons experience is a value itself... and a very high one at that. That's why we deam mass-murder a terrible act, because value has been lost. The rest of your jiberish is not even worth responding to.

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openoids · 2018-06-21T15:32:23+00:00

Less men in college! True. But they are still the majority in the hard sciences.

VoidInvincible · 2018-06-21T22:06:23+00:00

This is red pill not black pill. Black pill is a thing bitter misogynists made up to justify their hatred of women. Fuck the black pill. Women like all sorts of men, not just Chad. Fuck Chad.

Fenriradra · 2018-06-21T23:41:50+00:00

I think there's more to it than just being able to say "becuz guvment" - that there's a whole massive chunk of biological/evolutionary reasoning for why the genders are the way they are, with a smorgasbord of natural behavior found in plenty of creatures to explain why humans, or social mammals in instinctual/general ways, do the things they do.

From the traditional perspective, of course the only thing you can offer is your body/the children. Without that, or some other kind of tangible compensation, you aren't so different from a bum that won't pay rent but still expects to get fed & paid for. It doesn't need to involve entertainment or even competition as much as the plain principle; if you aren't offering something, you shouldn't expect anything, regardless of gender, especially in a legally binding contract.

The doozy...

Now turn that around for men.

K

All they offered at first, and continue to maintain, was protection and labor, the government does a bad/modest job of fulfilling absurd diversity quotas (think police, military, national guard aka industries dominated generally by males, due in part to physical capacity to perform them well).

FTFY

Women can work for their money now.

The next step is complaining they've chosen to sacrifice reproductive prime years trying to have test tube babies, after having piled on massive debt for a women's studies degree only to push papers in an office cubicle, until she retires to take care of the cats.

Even the sperm of men is cheap.

Even naturally so, semen is just cheaper than eggs, and males don't usually have to spend that much time dropping off a load in a fertile female to maintain reproductive maximum for the species. I don't think it's going to change any time soon until evolution decides to make your ovaries restock the shelves, probably at a greater biological 'cost'.

Men can't really inseminate themselves like women can. Women can just get the sperm of chad for free and have superior babies.

Males are biologically unable to impregnate themselves, fact verified. Women are fascist for chad sperm, theory confirmed.

Men go less to college and are thus generally less educated as well. (I am sure that some of the other men will insist that they are 7/8+, but they are just coping. Just like the women they can save it for their frumpy wives/gfs).

Men are also more likely to pick up a trade skill, which doesn't necessarily require any kind of college degree to earn a successful (albeit mundane/low SMV) career. Where are you going with that? Oh, shaming, right.

crunchyRocks · 2018-06-22T00:56:06+00:00

I believe men and women are generally equal. Sure there are barriers that exist but modern world abilities we’re quite even.

That being said, both men and women can be disposable. It’s not a sex thing, it’s a quality thing. We all have a responsibility to build our unique value to others, whether in work or in relationships.

So I guess I half agree half disagree with you, unless you’re saying women are indispensable, which I disagree.

Whisper · 2018-06-22T03:02:07+00:00

I don't need farms, food comes from the supermarket.

Transmigratory · 2018-06-22T14:32:13+00:00

Women are naturally risk adverse, so men will always have the edge (thus value) for that reason.

You can talk about swallowing pills and what have you, but that just means you're subscribing to a bias viewpoint and signalling that you're only going to see things from the pill-coloured lens you subscribe to.

passepar2t · 2018-06-21T14:56:47+00:00

While women do have more social safety nets and aren't as stigmatized for using them, I think all proles are disposable. Everyone who isn't in the 1% illuminati who stand over and above society.

abaxeron · 2018-06-21T16:22:57+00:00

women can work that much easier for a wage to survive without a man.

Women can work for their money now.

Then why don't they?

I cannot see anything bad in being officially recognized as the member of obsolete sex; if that was to happen, I'd simply live the rest of my life in comfort, solitude, and peace. Instead of that, I am forced to support the state that chooses to support single moms and old crooked cat ladies at my expense.

And you seem to be unaware to what extent it happens. So, let me enlighten you.

In year 2011 alone, the United States Social Security system alone has transferred 65 billion (with a 'b') of men's money to hwamen. It's full net worth of Jeff Bezos every 2 years and 3 months. Lest we also forget that the vast majority of people working in the institution of Social Security - are women. That get paid for transferring men's money to themselves and other women.

Colttaine has recently pointed out that on Valentine's day, the amount of money equal to NASA's manned mission to Mars got spent predominantly on women.

We don't know how much wealth gets redistributed towards women yearly through division of assets in divorce, but we have certain insight from the high end of the spectrum, and the amount is most probably in the realm of billions if not dozens of billions yearly at least, in the US alone.

Finally, let's also remind ourselves that it's been two years since the results were published for the study of talented youth started back in the early 1970s, aimed to "detect and support" the talented among the talented since age of 13, has shown that among them, the career differences between men and women are more pronounced than among general population, and even the most talented women with all the "institutional barriers" before them knocked the Hell down by top academics, still show strong unwillingness and inability to work and earn. Overview can be seen on TRP.

Thus, I think considering how the entire system of society has been intentionally tweaked to shower women with unearned resources for the last several centuries if not millenia, and arguably, industrialization and automation of production made the matters worse, it just might be the worst moment currently to "blackpill" ourselves on our obsolescence. We might at least first expect women to have their own all-female space that wasn't built and connected to grid and supply networks by men.

DareyFathom · 2018-06-21T13:55:43+00:00

The top of most industries is still overwhelmingly male for genetic reasons. At least until genetic engineering is perfected.

jimba22 · 2018-06-21T14:13:01+00:00

As a man you have plenty of value, we are more assertive, usually have more motivation to compete in the working enviroment, and wether women like it or not, we stay more attractive over the years.

So go do you, instead of simping about not having any value to society and being replaceable, it's a self-fulfilling prophecy

Make yourself indisposable then, or stop giving a fuck, live your life how you want. How about that?

mossiness · 2018-06-21T17:39:22+00:00

The ratio of males to female at birth is not fixed at 50/50 and can vary quite a bit in other species, but also in humans. If you kill all the men except one, and he starting having sex with all the women, the women that give birth to boys will be favored over the women that give birth to girls. A boy will have lots of women to have sex with when he reaches adulthood, but the girl will have to compete with all the other women for very few men. Therefore, the genotype that results in women giving birth to boys will propagate faster, and more and more boys will be born until a balance is struck. That balance happens at approximately 50/50 for humans.

Pope_Lucious · 2018-06-21T19:31:17+00:00

Haha who do you think provides the government with the overwhelming majority of that wealth?

trele_morele · 2018-06-21T16:48:07+00:00

Not all men are disposable. Otherwise the civilization would collapse. About 80% are though. Every man should srtrive to become one of the indisposable ones

Title	Men are really disposable.
Author	ScaryDate
Upvotes	21
Comments	264
Date	June 21, 2018 1:49 PM UTC (8 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/8ss0e5/men_are_really_disposable/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/men-are-really-disposable.261835 https://theredarchive.com/post/261835

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