Q4All: Should Marriage even be a thing?

UnleashYourLife · 2018-12-14T10:42:39+00:00

A better question is,

Should government have it's dirty fingers everywhere?

DemonConsulting · 2018-12-14T11:50:05+00:00

Marriage is primarily needed as a legal institution by the government completely separate from religion, love, cohabitation etc. It is simply defining and establishing a legal family unit which comes with a clearly defined framework of rights/protection/rules concerning material and financial assets, etc.

This covers many areas such as health insurance, taxes, immigration, criminal law, access and the ability to make decisions concerning medical emergencies, division of assets in case of death or divorce, as well as anything involving the military and similar employers.

Of course all of these things could also be managed individually turning one legal document into a hundred, one for each case, probably requireing you to produce proof of being whatever the hospital/insurance company/employer/court considers enough of a “family unit“ to grant you the privilege or protection you're asking for. But it's a million times easier for everyone involved (especially the government) to just use the standard “marriage“ that covers all of these.

Now why we consider family units to deserve some sort of additional legal protection is probably because a stable family environment produces more stable children and the law recognizes this. But “marriage“ could also be replaced by a generic “civil union“ or something if the majority of people wanted that (though they don't).

As of right now, the government profits form this arrangement and so do families as a whole. But if you don't want to get married, you're absolutely free not to. I just wouldn't expect a woman to have children in this environment without legal protection (it would at least be pretty irresponsible)

Eastuss · 2018-12-14T10:42:09+00:00

Dunno man, I've been with my partner for 9 years, we got a kid, I'm financially involved and spend most of my time and money on both of them, but somehow women all think I'm ruining her life for not having married her.

Women are irrational crazy about marriage. Some women here even told me that expensive engagement ring and expensive marriage is proof that the man will spend his money on her when she's preggo. Sound like irrational hamster from over here.

The pragmatic argument for marrying my wife are exactly this: She gets to have my name (so she can dodge racist discrimination), she gets to have my money if I die, we get to have the other's retirement privileges if one of us die early. That's all.

Willow-girl · 2018-12-14T15:05:16+00:00

In the U.S., there are benefits to being married if you're going to have children. Social Security will provide survivor benefits if one partner dies or becomes disabled. The lower-earning spouse may benefit from being able to draw off the higher-earning spouse's earnings at retirement time.

However, there are corresponding risks, too! If your husband or wife gets hurt or falls ill, joint bank accounts can be drained in a hurry, and/or your income may prevent your sick spouse from qualifying for disability assistance. So it's a mixed bag.

peterlongc · 2018-12-14T16:42:46+00:00

This is what I hear many women say: Marriage is for commitment and security; a stronger guarantee to help protect us from being thrown back out into the wild when the next best thing wiggles their ass in your face

Then I hear a lot of men saying: F that, what's in it for me?

Well, if you love your potential future partner for life and want to make her feel secure and loved (that being a decent shorthand of the proper stance a man should have for the love of his life) then it makes sense to RISK something to get that REWARD. The women RISK something by giving their prime years of youthful beauty, trusting good-will (innocence), reproductive window, etc.. to a man and they would be imprudent if they give those things away without caution.

I know that's all 'old-fashioned' to many ears, if you feel this is hopelessly outdated then I would respond that the modern understanding is clearly failing many people and that seems to be the driver of PPD's existence in the first place so maybe the modern attitude isn't really enlightened after all.

Summary: No RISK no REWARD. That's life, sorry. Both sexes seem to be struggling with feeling like the opposite side (the reward) is worth the risk these days.. and I don't blame them for that (a lot of good faith has been lost on both sides). Still, individuals will forever be free to commit themselves to ideals and try to find (or convince) a partner that is willing to also make the RISK of this type of faith/idealism/commitment

Aaren_Augustine · 2018-12-14T10:43:52+00:00

A lot of women will clearly state that they will accept nothing less due to public image and or men can't abandon them so quickly. For women and children, it's clear why marriage is a thing because they benefit from it; on average.

The question is why would a man want to get married. Because as far as I can see, its a step backwards with more responsibility, more risk and measurably less 'rewards'.

Nodoxxintoxin · 2018-12-14T12:03:18+00:00

It is a good question. Here’s another. If it’s such a shit deal for men, why do they live longer and report being happier? https://www.health.harvard.edu/newsletter_article/marriage-and-mens-health

Why do married women die younger ?

PuleaSpataru69 · 2018-12-14T10:55:27+00:00

Marriage is safety. All women are single until marriage. Until the man signs those papers, puts the house in both your names, YOU'RE SINGLE. He isnt claiming you otherwise.

Only dusty losers want girlfriends and baby mamas. Rich men get married. Low income losers get divorced more or dont marry at all. Too bad they still reproduce with their inferior genes.

LittleMissAfrodite · 2018-12-14T13:44:35+00:00

Marriage is just the government putting a gun to the man's head to support the wife even when she no longer wants to support him. It's not even a form of social security. It's like a forced pension that happens even if the person quits after just a few years. The man still has to pay the woman for services he is no longer receiving. (Well, the highest earner, which has historically been and still is the man). The woman's "sacrifice" in raising a family is considered and the man's sacrifice is completely ignored. So only the woman gets compensated for her sacrifice.

It's just sexism. Plain and simple.

I personally find it unethical and immoral. My man and I have been together 8 years. We have a son together and a baby on the way. I'd never consider doing something as horrible as putting him through marriage. Though I would like a wedding~

We'll teach our son never to marry because of how outdated and sinister the concept has become. And if this baby is a girl we will teach her about what marriage really is. Though we probably won't actively disencourage her from marrying. Maybe finding a man who is stupid enough not to care? Eh...we'll figure it out. Exploiting stupid people is pretty immoral.

And I mean stupid emotional, not stupid in terms of intelligence because marriage is a purely emotional decision. So not really trying to knock those already in happy marriages.

HostileErectile · 2018-12-14T12:20:38+00:00

Sure marriage should be a thing, you can choose to get marriaged or not.

I'm choosing not to.

oasis158 · 2018-12-14T13:52:13+00:00

I can't really contribute to the conversation but I will recommend the Monogamy episode of the Netflix series Explained. It explains the basic concepts of old and modern marriages and what purpose they serve, because it's obviously not all about the romance or connection.

abaxeron · 2018-12-14T11:05:23+00:00

No, it shouldn't; it's a scam.

Dominemm · 2018-12-14T13:37:37+00:00

Some men don't want to get married for whatever reasons y'all come up with and that's fine. But PPD and real life don't match up for me that often. There are many men out there who want women to be there wives (not girlfriends, not baby mamas)

On the female side of things, I'm just not doing it. 6 years, 8 years and I'm still your girlfriend? Call me shallow, but no it's not enough.

Marriage is a risk! If I am not worth that risk to you, then we just don't need to be together. That's fine, but don't try to dress it up as if marriage/regular relationship is the same thing.

philomexa · 2018-12-14T16:42:14+00:00

Marriage is a means of recognizing an economic unit for the government. So long as people cohabitate, combine resources, and produce children (proto tax payers), marriage will be the easiest, most reliable means for the government to keep track of all that shit.

Additionally, stable family units statistically correlate with marriage, and a stable unit means that proto tax payer turns into a resource rather than a drain.

In any case marriage isn't going away, Its been culturally, religiously, socially reinforced for eons and backed by incentives from the government. If disaffected white millennial atheist are skipping marriage, who cares. The teeming hordes of religious brown immigrants still take that shit very seriously (and by extension, the government will still have a vested interest). additionally, If the hoi polloi decide it has nothing to offer them anymore then marriage as an institution will just restrict to the upper classes who are still fairly concerned with lineage and the distribution of wealth.

Plebs will have baby mommas, UC will have dynasties, am religious immigrants will plant their stable family units on American soil.

goatismycopilot · 2018-12-14T13:20:17+00:00

So who is forcing people who do not want to get married to do so in western societies? The marriage police are not knocking on your door interrogating you. Okay so your Aunt Sally and some random feminist you do not like in a pseudo liberal paper with a boring lifestyle section is going boo hoo zee menz no likee zee marriage just ignore them.

LewisCross · 2018-12-14T14:36:15+00:00

I don't think it should be. Here is why it persists. read the comments. Women demand marriage for two reasons: (1) status, and (2) legally enforceable claims on men's resources.

She wants to be able to show the feminine social matrix that she could get a guy to commit to her. She knows that the FSM confers higher status on married women - even if she married a worthless beta, even if she didn't want to be married to him, even if she hates his guts and abuses him. "I got a man to commit to me. Sure, he's a piece of shit. But he's a man, and he committed to me. Hey- Got married."

For women, it is better to be married and divorced, than to have never married at all. Even if you are a divorced woman, you WERE married, and that's good enough. You were still able to get a man to commit to you, and you got his money.

Second reason is to make sure that if this relationship with this guy who takes care of your kids ever goes south, you can still make him support you. You can have a family court judge order him to support you on pain of criminal penalties and imprisonment for contempt of court for disobeying court orders. So, that second reason is so that she has a legal club she can bludgeon her man with, keep him in line, and keep him tethered to her forever even if she decides to kick him to the curb. She can divorce him, and still take his money.

jax006 · 2018-12-14T13:23:15+00:00

I would personally like it to not be. I had to break up with the last girl I dated cause of that stupid shit.

However there are way too many people who literally like their entire life and character revolves around their marriage/family so it wont go away.

Zanajin · 2018-12-14T16:31:17+00:00

Some of us are still religious. I realize this is the minority on Reddit but many people do hold to marriage as a God-ordained institution.

toronto87 · 2018-12-14T20:03:27+00:00

The states is slowly replacing marriage with forced income redistribution. If a country implements free/cheap childcare along with free education and healthcare, what purpose exactly does marriage have even for a woman? Why marry billy beta when she can get impregnated by some rugby dudebro and then use womens control over the government via the majority of votes to forcibly cuck billy beta and pay for her kids?

maljo24 · 2018-12-14T10:55:41+00:00

Pretty happy being married.

MGTOWtoday · 2018-12-14T11:54:07+00:00

It’s historically acted as a social security plan for women. Invest in men and creating a family with him when you’re young and beautiful and he’ll keep investing in you when you’re not.

sublimemongrel · 2018-12-14T12:31:46+00:00

Yes? If you don’t want to do it no one is forcing you. You can get some of the benefits without being married it just takes more effort on your part. People are free to do that if they wish.

Homebrand_Exercise · 2018-12-14T13:17:45+00:00

I mean marriage has some benefits. For example legal decisions around who would be next of kin, I mean granted you could do that without being married but there is a good chance that if something happened to your partner, the partners family could completely shut you out of all decision making on the grounds that you are not technically family.

There is also the benefits of being able to have a prenuptial agreement (granted they can be a bit spendy to get, and I suppose you could have some sort of agreement with a long term partner ), which can protect your assets in the event of a break up, Especially since there are laws that come into play when you have been with someone a long time and not married (e.g. de facto relationships) that could make a breakup difficult, an example being able to claim tenant rights, making it harder for them to be kicked out.

There are always risks with being in a relationship with someone, married or not. It is honestly up to each individual to make that decision and for people to be upfront to each other about whether marriage is the right choice for the relationship.

crackrocksteady7 · 2018-12-14T16:58:32+00:00

No fault divorce makes it nothing but a property transfer

goatismycopilot · 2018-12-14T11:20:54+00:00

I think in the US it can be relevant for health insurance coverage, most employer related health insurance does not cover a domestic partner. So if you are already living together and one partner has great insurance it can be a good reason given how expesnive it is to get sick in the US or to have a baby or kids. And I think it is the best way to raise kids. Personally I would never live with a partner again or get married again but that is just me. I do not have some weird ideological reason like most of the men here I just don't want to do it. But I am still in the "for" marriage category and you can think it "should" be abolished but it will never happen at least in the US precisely for the reason stated, Americans are still pretty into Jesus exempting the east and west coast folks who are all into poly and harems or whatever. You are not going to talk people in the flyover states into abolishing marriage. And while emotional desire is not a logical reason, it is a reason and most women still want to get married and have kids. So sure you are going to find a few laydee people who think marriage is just a piece of paper or we don't need no marriage to prove our eternal love but not many. They are the minority.

BlueberryPi1 · 2018-12-14T14:50:47+00:00

Just a point about #2: People can live together without state mandated marriage licenses

This isn't always true for everyone.

Source: spouse is a different nationality than myself. Marriage license is required for immigration in many instances.

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OV1C · 2018-12-14T11:11:54+00:00

I think it's the novelty of getting married. Sort of like those default life thing that'd be nice to do in your lifetime if you're into doing that kinda thing.

Workaholico · 2018-12-14T13:14:23+00:00

Q4All: Should Marriage even be a thing?

Yes. Because everyone is free to do any (idiotic) thing they want.

Why do we need marriage?

We do not need it. It is but a empty ceremony or contract to most. But people like it and some people need some kind of psychological crunch to progresss, so we let them.People are free to taste everything they want. And face the consequence of their actions. That is why we let so much stupid shut go through

It is like saying "why should religion/Marxism/feminism/furries/hentai be a thing? Why not just ban it?"

Because people are free to do any thing they want.

wekacuck · 2018-12-14T14:03:18+00:00

People can live with eachother without state mandated marriage licenses.

People can fuck eachother without marriage licenses.

Women can get pregnant and have kids without marriage licenses.

Notice something? Why didn't you say

People can get pregnant and have kids without marriage licenses.

quasirealikecreature · 2018-12-14T14:24:54+00:00

It's easier for burrocracy with international relationships.

despisedlove2 · 2018-12-14T14:47:47+00:00

Marriage ended in the West as a sacred institution with the introduction of recreational divorce.

It hasn't been "a thing" for decades now.

TremendouslyWetPussy · 2018-12-14T15:26:46+00:00

IMO, a lot of non-Western girls from a culture that's not contaminated by 3rd wave feminism are worth marrying. e.g., eastern european, Asian, etc.

reluctantly_red · 2018-12-14T16:06:53+00:00

Women value marriage. So much so they do it As many times as possible.

LUClEN · 2018-12-14T16:20:38+00:00

Yeah. I don't care for it now, but if I ever met my dream lady I might want to do the whole traditional thing

More options is better

PennnyLame · 2018-12-14T17:44:40+00:00

Inheritance and tradition.

DREADC0RSAIR · 2018-12-14T18:07:37+00:00

My grandparents dated 25 years before getting married, they never even thought they would tie the knot. Eventually they did and went on another 30-40 years until they passed. If my girl wouldn't be with me unless I spent loads of money on a pointless rock and superficial wedding than I wouldn't want to be with her anyway. Y'all are over here screaming "Commitment!" "Security!" Yet women are the ones who most often initiate divorce.

CatchPhraze · 2018-12-14T21:27:54+00:00

I think men have more king of the castle syndrome then woman.

I see married men who come home to a wife and kids and his own house drop that "I'm a man and I have to size everyone up and be tough" face and just enjoy being the only male in his territory.

Granted that can go sideways but what in life can't.

LowCreddit · 2018-12-15T04:24:34+00:00

Congratulations on coming to the exact conclusion that Feminists want you to come to. Marriage should be a thing but it shouldn't be what it is today. Also, even if you don't get a license there is de facto marriage enforced by the various laws, precedent, and courts. You can't get away from it without avoiding engaging in all of those activities.

verticordia · 2018-12-16T02:28:54+00:00

Yes. You can't imagine how humiliating it would be to have a live in boyfriend father your children, but won't marry you.

Johnnadawearsglasses · 2018-12-16T21:12:00+00:00

Marriage is a foundational pillar of society. Like any institution it can be corrupted. But it you look within our society and across societies, marriage is positively correlated with economic progress and inversely correlated with societal unrest.

2018-12-19T15:05:47+00:00

Marriage, as an institution, is thousands of year old. I am sure back then it made a lot of sense and it's necessary.

In this time and age? In the form as we know it today? In the US (that's where I am)?

I am not so sure. But, it's part of everyone's Free Will, so it's there. It's not mandatory. Do it or don't. Again, Free Will.

justtypingcuz · 2018-12-14T13:07:31+00:00

No. Only bitches want it.

azngirl7689 · 2018-12-14T12:47:19+00:00

If not into a guy, I would not have a desire to marry him. That said me and this guy I’m not married to would not have kids or a joint assets together.

If I’m into a guy, fuck yeah I want to marry him.

Long story short: for me personally, marriage is a gauge of interest. If I really like someone, odds are I want to be married to them.

2018-12-14T20:19:42+00:00

Nobody is forcing you to get married. If you don't want to get married, don't. Nobody needs marriage. It's not a requirement.

If other people want to get married, why does it bother you? Why would you abolish marriage simply because you don't like it?

nemma88 · 2018-12-14T11:52:35+00:00

End of the day, marriage is optional. No need for it not to be a thing.

deeman010 · 2018-12-14T12:58:15+00:00

Marriage was a religious thing. Now that we aren’t religious, I don’t see a good reason to keep it outside of it acting like a formal contract.

ReformedTomboy · 2018-12-14T13:59:07+00:00

These questions aren’t very thought out. Marriage is a consequence of human pair bonding. All societies studied have some form of marriage or formal companionship between a couple (despite the presence of infidelity etc). Formal pair bonding is just a part of being human. Although you could question the extent to which the government interferes with it I don’t think that will change anything either. What makes the partnership “official” is it’s recognition by the government. That’s not to say LTRs aren’t officially recognized by family friends etc, they definitely. But at some point people do wonder if your married in everything but name why not just marry?

JezebeltheQueen5656 · 2018-12-14T17:01:31+00:00

i know women shouldnt marry unless everything is in their control, starting from finances, children (if any) etc.

marriage hurt women more than males. males are the only ones who benefit from getting married.

Title	Q4All: Should Marriage even be a thing?
Author	DangerousTard
Upvotes	23
Comments	476
Date	December 14, 2018 10:33 AM UTC (7 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/a63psn/q4all_should_marriage_even_be_a_thing/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/q4all-should-marriage-even-be-a-thing.258562 https://theredarchive.com/post/258562

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