What about class?

leosandlattes · 2024-10-17T18:37:15+00:00

Young men here on PPD hammer this home all the time that men don't care about anything except pretty face, nice figure, and pleasant disposition. However in real life we see that a woman's background matters - men do not care about money or specific income per se, but they DO care about how this woman will fit into his vision and his goals for life.

There's an interesting discussion post on r/RedPillWomen about this: How class affects male preferences. Here is an excerpt:

However, male commitment is dependent on BOTH his attraction, AND a set of very practical concerns - potentially both your MBA, and your mean pot roast.

In other words:

Do you make him look good to his friends, family and acquaintances? Do you serve as evidence for his social value?

Does your relationship/marriage increase his odds of achieving the economic outcome he wants for his life?

Does your relationship/marriage increase his odds of achieving the social outcome he wants for his life?

Do you increase his quality of life, either by increasing family income and/or by making the same income go further?

There is a reason why male politicians or doctors or aren't wifing up the hot 18yo McDonald's cashier with an Only Fans side hustle. She will have a high enough SMV for him to fuck her, possibly even make her a mistress, but her RMV is simply not high enough for him to commit. And career, family background, education, social/cultural values is ALL a part of RMV that can either help her or harm her depending on the demographic of men she is looking in.

krackedy · 2024-10-17T18:37:03+00:00

Yeah, most people date within their own class, or close to it and that's why it just doesn't come up that much.

blonde___guardian · 2024-10-17T21:50:30+00:00

Yup. Here's my anecdotal evidence:

I went to an extremely highly-rated law school, both nationally and globally. In the summer of my graduating year, there was a spate of marriages and breakups among my classmates. People either locked down their similarly educated partner (i.e. doctor, lawyer, engineer, finance bro/sis) or dumped their lower-status partner now that they were finally pulling in the big bucks after 7+ years of education.

Ultimately, people who have to work for their wealth in some way are decent at planning and impulse control. That extends to their dating choices.

mlo9109 · 2024-10-17T19:27:19+00:00

I mean, I feel like class also impacts how people approach dating and relationships. If I hear one more college-educated middle class to UMC professional in his 30s or 40s bitch about the financial clock, I'm taking him to visit my meth-infested hometown and making him explain that concept to my high school classmates who are unemployed, addicted to every substance known to man, and have 4-5 kids each. He would be laughed out of the room. You don't need a certain amount of money to get married or have kids, like so many middle class+ folks believe. And these folks are in a hell of a lot better a position to parent than my crackhead classmates are.

MidoriEgg · 2024-10-17T19:50:39+00:00

I think people on this group focus way too much on gender as the main divider when really it’s class/status.

A lot of the advantages people accuse the other sex of having are things that are dependent on class and status.

John_Oakman · 2024-10-17T21:15:41+00:00

Most of the folks here are of the socially middle class (even if their economic class varies wildly). Thus the implicit assumption is that everyone involved are of the same social class).

Most of the problems discussed here also tend to be concerning the socially middle class (at least more than the other social classes).

The socially lower classes are effectively invisible and irrelevant [in the context of this subreddit].

Lift_and_Lurk · 2024-10-17T19:43:52+00:00

I think someone a while ago posted some chart that showed the vast majority of people tended to end up partners with someone with the same educational level and in the same socio-economic class as them.

attendquoi · 2024-10-17T18:37:54+00:00

Cultural capital definitely matters to me, moreso as a compatibility thing. At this point in my life, I probably wouldn't date anyone who doesn't have a college degree. It's basically the new high school diploma.

Whoreasaurus_Rex · 2024-10-17T18:57:14+00:00

I was raised in a super blue collar environment (nurse mother + firefighter father). Going to McDonalds was a treat for a good report card. Getting pizza delivered was a special occasion for birthdays. In essence, I grew up dirt poor.

Now I'm in the highest tax bracket. I don't date men in my "socioeconomic level" because I find the country club crowd boring and superficial. IDGAF about high end cars or fancy purses. I prefer to live a middle class lifestyle even though I could afford more.

I spend my money on vacations and experiences. I want my partner to be the same and/or I don't care if my partner makes far less than me since I still kinda identify with blue collar mentality.

apresonly · 2024-10-17T20:17:11+00:00

I think men really underestimate how important this is.

It’s also a big reason women don’t like men who do certain things (spitting in public, making off color jokes, having bizarre facial hair/stye).

purplish_possum · 2024-10-17T19:38:50+00:00

Social class determines which dating pool you get to fish in. It doesn't determine if you catch anything or not.

Within each dating pool looks reign supreme.

2024-10-18T10:59:56+00:00

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Junior_Ad_3086 · 2024-10-17T22:43:39+00:00

most people date within their own class because that's who they're around generally speaking. for those who want to get married it also makes a lot of sense from a pragmatic standpoint.

for what it's worth, the average age gap increases as you go higher up on the socio-economic ladder. even more so if you exclude the decade(s) long first marriages of people who met their spouse when they were young.

-Shes-A-Carnival · 2024-10-17T23:32:54+00:00

class is important for marriage, not sex

EugeneCezanne · 2024-10-18T00:52:56+00:00

You're right that it doesn't get talked about enough. RP does talk about status and money, which often has class undertones.

class is determined by three things: the social capital (who do you know?), the economical capital (your money and assets), and the cultural capital (what school did you go to?

The cool thing about this, and about qualifiers that come in threes generally, is that you really only need two out of three to get somewhere. Any combination will do.

Friedrich_Friedson · 2024-10-18T02:14:48+00:00

According to Bourdieu, class is determined by three things: the social capital (who do you know?), the economical capital (your money and assets), and the cultural capital (what school did you go to? Are you cultured? Interested in art and history?).

All of these are by products of your class positioning,not their determining factors. The determined factor is your role in the production process.

Fuzzy_Ad9763 · 2024-10-18T12:08:30+00:00

It's because RP isn't real. It's pickup artist techniques masquerading as dating advice. Yes, people are more likely to pair off if they are part of the same circle of people/demographic.

Flightlessbirbz · 2024-10-18T16:20:01+00:00

You are correct, but men who are of a low-mid socioeconomic class primarily only care about looks, and make the mistake of assuming that’s all men of higher socioeconomic classes care about. Just about any woman who’s pretty and pleasant enough is good enough to introduce to their family and friends.

But this isn’t the case for men with a certain status and image to uphold. They want someone who fits in their social circles, they don’t care about income so much as education and family background. This is a matter of social status, not money per se, but naturally, money factors into status.

Updawg145 · 2024-10-17T18:39:49+00:00

It shouldn’t really be a big point of conversation though since 90+% of us are part of the same “class”. The only time I’ve ever experienced class being an issue is when an attractive woman tries to ascend out of the middle class by exclusively trying to date upper class men.

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Creation_Soul · 2024-10-17T21:51:20+00:00

proximity is still king for a lot of relationship. and of course people spend most of their time with people of similar background/values/intelligence/income.

AidsVictim · 2024-10-18T03:08:38+00:00

According to Bourdieu, class is determined by three things: the social capital (who do you know?), the economical capital (your money and assets), and the cultural capital (what school did you go to? Are you cultured? Interested in art and history?). These three things determine the profile of your future partner more than any other factor.

Well you're choosing Bourdieus interpretation of class which isn't what I would define it as (your means of income). But the variables you listed do impact dating prospects so it's useful for the purposes of discussion here.

The RP ideology is all about looks being a woman's best asset, but I don't see many men who graduated from the top school, with the top degrees, who got the top job at the top firm in their field marry models or pretty young girls. They date them, sure, but more often than not, they end up with a woman of a similar condition, someone with the same level of education and wealth, whom they went to school with, or work with, or someone their inner circle introduced them to... etc. The age gap for most married couples is within three years.

RP (as an ideology beyond dating advice) should be understood as a reactionary "movement" in the context of failing social order and declining social and economic prospects (i.e. it's "precariat" in character). As one moves up the socio-economic ladder it becomes less relevant as the population becomes more stable - the wealthy pair up, have more children, stay married, and generally live more socially stable than anyone else. As you go the opposite direction RP is more relevant and common. RP "bubbles up" from the lower classes into the middle classes as they become more disordered.

Assortative mating is becoming more common, in part because of womens preferences (they prefer marriage with men that are the same age and educational background more than men). In the past it was more common for people to marry across class lines (at least in the US) but that's ending. As the 1st world undergoes "proletarianization" it tends to create one generalized pool of workers so in the future intra class dating pool size might increase (although college education preference by women will probably remain a significant intra class demarcation for some time).

flipsidetroll · 2024-10-18T06:11:13+00:00

Even more about class….. they constantly say 20% of men fathered 80% of the children. But that is a class issue too. The lower and poverty class have way more kids than middle upper and upper. But of course delving into things that don’t suit their narrative, those things are never expanded. It’s just stated without using the demographics. Because demographics can completely change the conclusion.

wtknight · 2024-10-18T11:12:46+00:00

The RP ideology is all about looks being a woman's best asset, but I don't see many men who graduated from the top school, with the top degrees, who got the top job at the top firm in their field marry models or pretty young girls.

TRP advises men not to marry and would likely call these men “betas”. They would say that high-class women who these high-class men are marrying probably already had lots of casual sex with Chads of whatever class who were attractive in other ways that actually sexually turn on a woman. Furthermore, if these high-class men getting married are not attractive, they will soon get dead bedroomed according to TRP.

Jazzlike_Function788 · 2024-10-17T21:11:49+00:00

Richer people are also more attractive, so how do you isolate "class" exactly. When you can do that you'll have a stronger point.

LowCreddit · 2024-10-17T19:47:44+00:00

And yet, Arnold Schwarzennager was divorced for banging his maid. Class influences LTRs a lot. It has little, and perhaps even a negative influence, on STRs.

nonedat · 2024-10-18T13:27:21+00:00

I don't know, in my experience there's a notion that women tend to romanticise men of lower classes, because they tend to be more alpha while middle-class white-collar guys are seen as beta.

Every_Pirate_7471 · 2024-10-18T15:03:01+00:00

The vast majority of people on the planet are part of the laboring class. Personally I wouldn’t want to date a woman of the office/professional class because we have very little in common in terms of life experience.

VasiliyZaitzev · 2024-10-18T01:28:17+00:00

Most men are bluepills. They are also conventional, and don't "dare" to do things that will get them criticized socially. I am in my 50s and date women in their 20s. Anyone who doesn't like it can shove it up their ass. Most guys don't have those kind of balls.

stats135 · 2024-10-17T18:51:48+00:00

doctors marry other doctors, actors other actors

doctors marry pretty nurses, actors marry younger models FTFY

There is a kernel of truth that men tend towards women in there own social circles, but that's mostly because of proximity.

OKSector69 · 2024-10-17T22:23:47+00:00

First of all trp doesn’t care about marriage so yeah the point is to sleep around with those models and just have fun with them.

And second, looks correlate highly with class for various reasons. So a lot of upper class guys probably wouldn’t have a problem with women born in a lower class if they weren’t all obese and dressed trashy.

rustlerhuskyjeans · 2024-10-17T22:24:43+00:00

Those top status guys marry, have kids, get a divorce with a woman of decent status, and then go for a hot woman half their age.

FebruaryEightyNine · 2024-10-17T19:37:47+00:00

Meh. I don't think class, at least in terms of "lower", "middle" and "upper" matter so much in America. This topic may have more weight in a truly class ridden society like here in the UK. But, in the US, there tends to only really be two classes. The working and owner class. Bigger differentiation can be made in regards to people politics or their race or education. America, to its credit is fairly fluid when it comes to the middle income brackets. It's not like in the UK where class can be entrenched among generations.

And yes, I don't really class someone who studied a 4 year degree to earn 120k as a middle manager as any different from a guy earning 120k through his HVAC business. You're both a recession/layoff/illness away from poverty. I'm seeing a lot of software engineers losing their jobs and fretting blanket feeding their kids...again I wouldn't really say they're in a "different class" compared to a blue collar worker. Can you quit your job and comfortably live off your assets? No? Then you ain't upper middle class.

Independent-Mail-227 · 2024-10-18T00:55:16+00:00

I don't see many men who graduated from the top school, with the top degrees, who got the top job at the top firm in their field marry models or pretty young girls.

None of this equals status. You seems to think that career make a man top% one, it does not.

Title	What about class?
Author	Brave-Reindeer-Red
Upvotes	38
Comments	164
Date	October 17, 2024 4:58 PM UTC (1 year ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1g5vo5y/what_about_class/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-about-class.1533100 https://theredarchive.com/post/1533100

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