What is “dating equality?”

_lemazaki · 2021-07-13T17:17:32+00:00

I can´t even think about this. It´s kinda insane. (no offense for people who pursuit it)
Dating is like market, and you can´t "try" to reach equality without regulations. So, if people defend that, they are literally talking about laws for dating.

Top_Bedroom_4007 · 2021-07-13T20:10:09+00:00

To simplify it: if you have a list of expectations that your partner meets and you also meet all of his expectations then if you're dating, that's equality.

Hangadr0ttinn · 2021-07-13T18:43:12+00:00

Equality is just empty rhetoric. I think men should focus first on using their power to create a society that facilitates their interests and date within that.

DownvoteMe2021 · 2021-07-14T00:02:07+00:00

What would “dating equality” look like to you?

Dating equality would be measurable in that the efforts of both parties would be within 10%, and the metrics across large swaths of data (such as dating app data) would be within 5%.

What do you imagine would be different?

Women (as a whole) would need to be willing to risk rejection to get relationships.

Men (as a whole) would need to be approached often enough for them to have enough options to decline poor options.

What do men and women do differently in a world that has achieved this “dating equality?”

Women are required to pursue more.

Men are required to be more selective.

Does one group have to sacrifice choice and agency to achieve this and if yes do you think that’s fair?

The very fact that most species operate on a pursuer/pursued model implies that for any sort of equality there would be necessary oppression of passive traits in women and active traits in men until passive/active metrics measured closer to 50/50.

What role does society play in promoting “dating equality?” Is it equality of opportunity or equality of outcome?

Society has always had a role in promoting behaviors, healthy or unhealthy. A healthy society typically promotes oppression of negative outcomes and the behaviors that measurably lead there. An unhealthy society promotes expression of personal liberties regardless of the outcome, but attempts to justify the outcome as necessary to maintain some sort of perceived 'right' to 'personal liberties' which don't actually exist.

Propaganda would need to be used to mold societal expectations and acceptance:

Women pursuing men
Everyone being required to pay for themselves
Makeup being seen as valuable on men
Stability being seen as 'sexier' than passion.
Apps being designed to thwart the bad behaviors of their users (forcing women to turn up the interaction, and forcing men to turn down).
Media needs to play a bigger role in promoting the positives (and being transparent and honest about the negatives) of both gender's behavior. Promotion of one gender and denigration of the other is poison to 'equality', and is largely responsible for the modern dating market.
Elimination of the legal barriers to participating in sex work, and regulation to ensure a safe market for everyone.
Elimination of all gender based funding for anything anywhere. If women are receiving large scale financial assistance for college, and men are not (which is true today), this will naturally skew the dating market. All markets affect the dating market, therefore all markets need to be de-gendered in their assistance programs.

What role does the individual play in a society that has achieved “dating equality?” Meaning what is their responsibility?

A person who supports a framework for dating equality espouses the rules of that framework and plays some personal role in encouraging the rules and discouraging the rule breakers. For instance, using the scale system for simplicity, a '8' man is socially and perhaps legally shamed for having a high body count, and a '5' woman is shamed for turning down '5' men for dinner dates.

Goodthingstartssmall · 2021-07-13T21:52:01+00:00

Since we men are cursed with this fucking thirst, we can't have true equality. But other than that just being a decent human being and a mature adult which means....

Before the date:

If you don't reject him right away, be receptive to his moves
having an actual conversation or text exchange instead of a monologue from the man
don't flake, i don't care if you are having your 15th car accident this month or that your sudden headache, which coincidently happens always before a date, i sooo bad
cancel the date IN TIME. Not ghosting and let the guy drive 3 hours for nothing. Don't invite him to a party or festival and then "just get lost for 6 hours in the crowd" where your smartphone apparantly didn't work

In the midst of the date:

the only thing your smartphone is here for are jokes and memes. Participate
tell your own stories too
if he is on a good way then show it
appreciate where is from. He has way more effort to do to reach the same point.

After the date:

Same points as before the date
If you know that this isn't leading anywhere then tell him in a timely manner

It actually pains me that these points aren't a given....

cowfishAreReal · 2021-07-13T16:44:09+00:00

Men and women having the exact same expectations put on them for dates, relationships, and marriage. For example, men shouldn't be expected to pay the bill on the first date, and women shouldn't be expected to do more housework than men in marriage

calfshrug · 2021-07-13T17:10:55+00:00

IMO it would be priming children to understand and expect the coming battlefield that will be their social and sexual environment after puberty, and for adults, bureaucracy, leaders, and media, mold children in a way that won’t produce or condone foul play.

For example - bully the bullies. (By teaching and directing children to BOND and form tight social groups that are less common these days, especially during the lonesome middle school and early high school years. And don’t just let teachers and other role models turn a blind eye to abuse) Induce feelings of helplessness and cognitive dissonance in the bullies. Present attrition as a natural aspect of human social interactions, but don’t let it be one-sided. Present (not mortally harmful or out of control) conflict as natural and essential, and for amoral, simply structural and educational reasons.

Mold children to enjoy verbal conflict and expression in a vigorous manner, but one that is able to be progressively overloaded. But not to the point of completely damning people’s reputation (gossip) or injuring the flesh. (Is it harder to recover and grow stronger from an uncomfortable verbal conflict with just a few individuals, or the entire school? This is very hard now with social media and phones, since gossip can spread so fast)

In media content? Instead of just playing the nerd and prom king tropes, humanize things. Level the playing field sometimes. Show the motivations of the characters more , even showing that the meek “nice guy” is perhaps more so AFRAID or awkward than just NICE. And so on, for each of the other tropes.

And another one- in kids cartoons, rather than leaving trope nerd / weird guy characters simply there without further analysis, flesh them out more, INCLUDING by showing , somehow, how those characters are often a projection of the creator of the character. This will teach people to laugh at themselves more, hopefully, and will not simply reinforce the *GAWK AT DA UGLY GUY HAHA” (because most all of us looked uglier and weirdly proportioned at some point when we were developing in middle and high school)

And another entirely DIFFERENT way of “leveling the field” in dating- to normalize health in children. Big pharma, cookie cutter orthodontics, the prevalence of endocrine disrupting chemicals in products, the culture paying a blind eye “it’s just bad luck” attitude towards chronic health concerns, these things lead to issues like poor sleep, hormonal imbalance, malocclusion, asthma, poor immune systems, and ultimately, often make people uglier and less mentally capable.

also fuckboi hip hop drug yolo whip culture should be made fun of just as much as it is reinforced in media. -former s***h8 poster

DisastrousSundae · 2021-07-13T18:02:27+00:00

There can be no "dating equality" when all potential mating parters are of varying degrees of quality.

ChibsFilipTelfordd · 2021-07-13T19:24:33+00:00

Dating equality:

Both genders ask the other out 50% of the time

Both genders pay 50% of dates and household expenses

Both genders initiate sex 50% of the time

Both genders do 50% of house work and child care

Thats not gonna happen though. That's just what itd look like.

E: u/Emervila made an additional good point I'll add, both parties only go on dates if truly interested in the other, no using men for food or presents and no using women for sex

_Neon_Shadow_ · 2021-07-14T04:37:42+00:00

I hear this term quite a bit here

Never heard of it but ok.

What would “dating equality” look like to you?

Each party in the relationship putting in equal amounts of work to maintain and progress the relationship.

What do men and women do differently in a world that has achieved this “dating equality?”

Women plan & pay for dates and men do the chores.

Does one group have to sacrifice choice and agency to achieve this and if yes do you think that’s fair?

No.

What role does society play in promoting “dating equality?”

It doesn't.

What role does the individual play in a society that has achieved “dating equality?” Meaning what is their responsibility?

Live a happy and virtuous life?

idontcomehereoftenso · 2021-07-14T02:28:51+00:00

Financial, emotional, and dutiful.

Financial: contributing financially equally

Emotional: one partner isn’t carrying it all on their back

Dutiful: when it comes to household duties one isn’t the maid and child rearing partner while the other one fucks off to do whatever.

PlayfulLawyer · 2021-07-14T02:10:47+00:00

Equality is not a real thing when it comes to humans so there is no dating equality

Philip8000 · 2021-07-14T00:15:28+00:00

I don't see any good answers to this one. Sometimes, life just sucks and there's not much you can do to change it. We all do everything we can with what life gave us and sometimes this leads to shitty outcomes, for men and women. Many poor people will never get out of poverty, no matter how much effort they put into self-improvement.

A quote from Michael Crichton: "There is no question that men feel under attack, and psychologically beaten down. All sorts of horrible qualities are attributed to us: we are unemotional, we are brutal, we are violent, we are uncaring. We’re lousy lays. We don’t know how to do it. We don’t know how to find that clit. We don’t know how to satisfy our mates.
We’ve been hearing this for more than twenty years. There are young men who have grown up in America who have heard nothing else." This article was written in 1989 and I'd say things have gotten worse. The "Bumbling Dad" was meant as an comedic trope decades ago, but now it's become an actual belief.

When it comes to dating, about the only thing I can think of is not going out of your way to make lonely men feel worse, which too many in the feminist blogosphere enjoy doing. Not all, but enough. Even stating: "I don't have a magic solution for you, but I know it sucks, and I'm sorry" is considered anathema to too many.

BioStu · 2021-07-13T22:21:12+00:00

I think it means average women should accept the fact they’re average and be happy with average men.

Pilling_it · 2021-07-13T21:27:06+00:00

First I've heard of it, and last I checked, dating is selecting. So much like an employer, while being able to apply whichever standards they want, they can call it selection.

To me, that'd be having people held to the same standards and vetting, regardless of sex and attractiveness. First won't happen because both are looking for different stuff, and the second.. Lol.

Historical-Agency334 · 2021-07-13T18:14:09+00:00

True equality is essentially what we have now.

Men and women are able to date and have sex with who they want, provided they are adults. No one is forcing men to get in to LTR with women who don't like them, no one is forcing women to settle with "beta" men, no one is forcing chads to sleep around. Everyone does what they want. Both sexes are free to lobby and vote for their desired legislation. No one is forcing men to pay for dates or women to pay for dates. For example women are free to have sex before marriage and I am free to reject them all for having sex before marriage.

SonicBackScratcher · 2021-07-13T16:45:49+00:00

As far as I can tell its basically "sexual socialism' and like real socialism it just makes more people miserable than it helps be less so.

"From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" - Someone is getting screwed in this deal...

mudeating · 2021-07-13T19:33:38+00:00

Strict monogamy, incentives for single people who volunteer for dating and most importantly men's sexual liberation from female oppression.

manfrom-nantucket · 2021-07-13T18:12:55+00:00

Women claim to want equality. What women practice is entirely different. Most women will not even go 50/50 on the bill of a first date. Most will demand that the first date be more elaborate than drinks or coffee. Most will claim that there won't be a second date if they have to pay half. So spare me with the "I want equality" - women want rewards with no accountability.

AtaCome7821 · 2021-07-13T16:53:08+00:00

Is about what's important for people. If men can't get what they want, why should they care about making life better for other people? There's no argument about dating equality, that's just ya'll coming to your own conclusions. Life's a zero-sum game, there are gives and takes, if ugly men can't date(even when they have things to offer) the solution is they visit prostitutes but they can't if the majority of women don't allow legalization(as the majority of voters), so we're left with the "what else can these guys do", they are only bitter because of a lack of options to get what they want not because they're communists.

If people don't defend and live up to egalitarian ideals then they shouldn't complain when others do as well. Egalitarianism stops being when you exclude one group from it, then we're back to good old human pecking order, where the strong take advantage of the weak.

Emervila · 2021-07-13T16:50:37+00:00

The red pill way would be:

Both propose and agreed where to go and eat. Women would specify what they like and together make a plan.
Each party pays for whatever each induvial consumes. We call it 50/50 but in reality is just separately billing while there's no LTR, just dating shouldn't consume primarily male resources
Parties only agree to go on any date only if interested and attracted to the other party. No food call as well as no booty call.

Naus1987 · 2021-07-13T17:33:33+00:00

Ugh, you just reminded me affirmative action. Can you imagine that for dating?

ArtNo6372 · 2021-07-13T18:12:32+00:00

A stupid concept that would never work

WilliamWyattD · 2021-07-14T05:28:59+00:00

Unless we come up with a workable alternative, the end goal for society is to facilitate as many long term monogamous pairings for child raising as possible. Furthermore, both genders are happiest when they have a long term monogamous partner they are satisfied with. So society should still be focusing on enabling this.

Now, technology has changed the game a bit. We live longer and healthier. We control reproduction more. Domestic labor is less time-intensive, so both partners will have to work to some extent for a nation to be competitive. As a result, some tweaks to monogamy may be in order, whether it is opening it up sexually at some point in a relationship or maybe facilitating divorce when children are older for partner switching when a couple are no longer that compatible as they age, etc.

But the basic goal should still be facilitating widespread monogamy of some sort. It is hard to say what is 'equal'. Men and women are different. But anything that contributes most to widespread monogamous pairings where both partners are happy with their partner is ultimately what is most 'equal' with respect to promoting both genders' long term happiness.

superlurkage · 2021-07-13T19:22:15+00:00

Sexual socialism, on this sub

TheBookOfSeil · 2021-07-13T19:00:46+00:00

Dating equality is a fantasy where both people give up whatever they want and the other person considers it "enough" for them.

poppy_blu · 2021-07-13T18:16:41+00:00

No pre-martial sex for anyone. Aim to have most people happily married by the time they hit 25. Adultry is punishable by death.

Barely-moral · 2021-07-13T18:10:34+00:00

I am not interested in dating equality but I am here to have fun do I will give it a try.

What would “dating equality” look like to you?

Finely measured tit for tat. Anything a human does, the other human in the date/relationship does too.

Not returning what your partner does for you is punished with social ostracization.

Doing something for your partner knowing they can't do the same in return is punished with social ostracization.

Doing something for your partner after they told you that they don't want it is punished with social ostracization.

Equal expectations. You can't expect something from your partner unless your partner expects the same from you. Again, punished with social ostracization.

Does one group have to sacrifice choice and agency to achieve this and if yes do you think that’s fair?

Everyone would have to sacrifice choice and agency. The only way equality can be achieved is if someone is losing choice and agency

It would be fair because everyone would be losing at the same time.

About the role the individual plays. Avoiding social ostracization would be the main role everyone would have.

xFallacyx69 · 2021-07-13T17:12:53+00:00

Honestly, if my average bro dudes were treated half as well as they treat the chicks they take on dates… I’d be much happier

I’m not talking sex, I’m not talking opening doors… I’m talking basic human decency

808randomaccount · 2021-07-13T17:02:34+00:00

First off shaming men for standards needs to just never happen again, no more "date trans people" and "fat acceptance" can be allowed, unless you start shaming women into dating trans men and obese men.

Secondly we now live in a post patriarchal society in all ways except dating, this obviously very much hurts mens ability to date as all traditional expectations are left on us while none of the other ones are. Meaning we must now make more than the women and care for her, yet half the workforce is now women making that job way harder.

Third, virgin shaming and feminist gas lighting needs to stop, period. It is not abnormal to be a virgin and no man should be shamed into sleeping with low value women in order to lose that tag. For the feminist gas lighting part no more "women don't care bout looks" or "just be a nice guy someone will like you eventually" propaganda, "red pill" men like how women were "pink pilled" for the last 100 years (how many women have stories of their family shaming them for their looks? How many men?)

Does one group have to sacrifice choice and agency to achieve this and if yes do you think that’s fair?

No I actually just think if women were less sluts in college it wouldn't be a huge problem. Most of the gap in sex is college nerds vs "Chads", which is fine except for the fact it leaves the nerds bitter and angry.

For me a world with dating equality would be equal responsibility equal "chasing" in the beginning stages, and equal amounts of affection towards each other. And no redpill dipshits none of this means men and women are exactly the same, the ways these qualities can be expressed vary by gender and person :)

Sid_Insidious · 2021-07-13T16:51:45+00:00

"Equality" is just an over-used word for "equal outcomes" which is Socialism, Marxism, etc. which I expressly loathe.

The free market must remain free.

Even if 95%of women find 95% of men un-fuckable. It doesn't matter.

Men will just have to do what men have always done: adapt.

Quality sex robots that put an end to this shameless mass-simping problem would be very very interesting though.

XtoDoubt · 2021-07-13T16:44:29+00:00

I'll leave aside the legal structure for now, because we've beaten that horse to death.
From a cultural standpoint, I think men are frustrated that women can by and large do whatever the fuck they want in terms of sexual strategy, i.e. talk about it, learn, improve and even vent their frustrations, whereas any attempt by men to do this is relegated to tiny, hated corners of the internet.

woxmei · 2021-07-13T16:55:01+00:00

You can't ever get dating equality. Men are women both have advantages and disadvantages in every aspect of life and dating is an advantage women have. Yes it comes with some downsides (unwanted attention, stereotyping, body risks etc) but it's a seller's market and men are always gonna want sex and relationships more than women. The male sex drive seeks out sexual partners whereas the women doesn't. Women can go with sex, masterbating and intamacy for way longer than men can and that's gonna change the dating market in there favour.

I think dating equality is impossible but I would like to see women pay 50/50 etc because otherwise the man is paying for your time and that just feels wrong - especially in a modern society where women constantly praise they independence as important.

dmv_thirstl0rd · 2021-07-13T17:13:21+00:00

Does one group have to sacrifice choice and agency to achieve [dating equality]?

Legalize and regulate prostitution, like certain counties in NV. As mid-level office drones get replaced by AI, RPA, or offshoring, the cishet female ones will resort to moonlighting as SWs to preserve their MC lifestyle. While Chad will continue to recruit into his soft harem via dating apps, Billy can use his beta bucks to actually get his rocks off, instead of just paying a landwhale's foodie tab.

and if yes do you think that’s fair?

Nevada's 2019 'Companion of the Year' Alice Little made $1.2M that year. America isn't fair, it's the land of opportunity.

anon_likes_tendies · 2021-07-13T17:02:07+00:00

What is “dating equality?”

There is no such thing. Nor will there ever be. Even communists are rich and poor when it comes to looks and love.

I hear this term quite a bit here as men try to equate the struggles of dateless, sexless men with racism, poverty, homelessness, war, etc.

It's in men's DNA and the familial process to get married and procreate. Men are born and trained to provide and build for a family. All the way back to hunter-gatherer societies.

Modern feminism has wreaked havoc with unintended consequences on this dynamic.

So you have a lot of men failing at their primary purpose in life (or so they think).

Bandit174 · 2021-07-13T16:55:07+00:00

Men on average would have a similar quantity and quality of options for sex and dating to what women have. Not sure if it will ever truely happen but I think some steps towards achieving that would be legalizing and reducing stigma of prostitution.

Additionally I think we need to do more to improve cosmetic procedures that benefit men for example a safe and effective way to alter height and penis size as well as a legitimate cure to male pattern hairloss would increase the % of men that are deemed sexually viable to women. And ideally we would also have a way to alter facial structure with same precision as with a digital character creator in video games.

oh I'd also add that the expectation of men having to pay for dates should also go away if we were to achieve dating equality.

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Title	What is “dating equality?”
Author	poppy_blu
Upvotes	17
Comments	435
Date	July 13, 2021 4:29 PM UTC (5 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/ojj7n4/what_is_dating_equality/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/what-is-dating-equality.790797 https://theredarchive.com/post/790797

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