Why is the 80/20 rule offensive?

Mrs_Drgree · 2023-07-23T13:58:58+00:00

This post has been removed for being a leading question. Please resubmit your post with neutral wording to have the mods approve it. Any further questions should go to modmail.

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-07-23T05:36:54+00:00

The study it’s based on is not offensive, but the way some men just take that one part and run with it to “prove” all sorts of spurious claims is annoying.

What’s wrong with having high standards.

Apparently a lot, if you listen to anything else that gets said when 80/20 is cited for the millionth time. It’s very rarely mentioned neutrally, almost always negatively and derogatorily as if women should be ashamed. So, that’s why they take offense.

SianOiseau · 2023-07-23T04:33:14+00:00

Because it doesn't really make much sense. Most people date, lots of people marry and people can have a variety of preferences and tastes. Sure, there are some common things that are generally considered attractive, but it doesn't mean that everyone is only into these traits.

Also lots of men using this ratio claim that women lie and aren't attracted to their more average partners which is pretty offensive when you think about it.

Outcast_Devil · 2023-07-23T04:56:26+00:00

I see too many unattractive guys in relationships for that to be true. Not even bad boy types just schlubs really

Correct-Warthog-9061 · 2023-07-23T03:46:08+00:00

Becuase mathematically it doesn't make sense. If there are 500 million people in the US, then we can assume that 250 million of them are women. If u think that 160 million women are dating 50 million men, then your smoking crack.

Unnecessary-Training · 2023-07-23T06:37:00+00:00

It's not offensive. It's just pathetically wrong. There is an enormous amount of statistical data on marriages and relationships, because the topic is of immense interest to sociologists, economists, doctors, government bureaucrats, marketers and many, many others. And contrary to manospherian delusions, none of it shows anything like the Pareto principle being in action when it comes to relationship formation.

xdivinex22 · 2023-07-23T03:58:14+00:00

They don’t want you in on their secret on how shallow and superficial they are. Women want you to believe they “just want a nice guy”. However, those of us that are awake all know they all want the 6ft+ guy that makes 6 figures that has a bad boy vibe to him. This is why it makes them upset when you bring it up.

macone235 · 2023-07-23T04:08:40+00:00

It's not a hard rule, and it's important to understand we aren't far removed from traditional marriage. Things will likely get worse, but yes, especially in younger women there is a big discrepancy already.

You can also see it in the fertility rate which is currently currently at 1.5 F/M and growing.

As for why women get offensive? They'll never admit it, but it's pretty obvious. It makes them look shallow and worse than men. Perception means a lot to women, because men value a woman's "goodness" quite highly, so being perceived negatively by other men, particularly high-value men will indicate to them that they are not good partners.

MeanGuyNumber4 · 2023-07-23T03:43:14+00:00

Because women want to feel special and think they’re different even though they’re generally attracted to the same men.

baiser_vole · 2023-07-23T03:58:37+00:00

I think it is because men think it only applies to women and accuse only women of being hypergamous, when there clearly are leagues for both genders. Single mothers and obese women are often not considered players by men, just like average or "average" men.

AngeCruelle · 2023-07-23T04:21:57+00:00

I'm not so much offended as looking at these clearly medicore men out in the street with their girl and thinking "ah yes, the fabled 20%"

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-07-23T06:06:56+00:00

It’s often rebuked because this 80/20 rule doesn’t match up with reality. If this statistic were factual, then you wouldn’t see the majority of men in relationships.

Yes, we know that many younger men under 30 aren’t in relationships, but the same is true for women within that age group. Many younger people don‘t want to be tied down when they’re young. But after a certain age, the majority of men and women both will be in long-term relationships or marriages,

Just look around out in the real world. You see people from all walks of life paired up, and usually the partners are similar. This includes people who are unattractive, fat, disabled, and old.

It is well-known that stats for online dating apps are skewed. That’s simply because most of the users are men, so obviously there will be fierce competition. But overall, when taking into account all ways that people meet, that’s not the case. In the end, most men will end in relationships.

Dom-Francon · 2023-07-23T03:57:17+00:00

Because that stat came from some old study done on a dating app where of course it’s not equitable at all or reflective of real life. Usually it’s an in*el bringing this goddamn study up to shit on women AGAIN for this dumb motherfucker not getting any.

AstronautLoveShack · 2023-07-23T04:10:39+00:00

Because it is stupid and it disregards women’s individual tastes. Also because men vastly misinterpret it and think that if you are not incredibly photogenic then you have no dating options, completely ignoring that some people are more charismatic in person than in a still photo. Lastly, if you actually look at the study, women may rate some men in the 20% but they are still messaging and dating men in the 80%. That doesn’t even take into account the fact that 3/4 of dating profiles are male or the number of scammers and catfishers on OLD. It just comes down to an astonishing amount of hysteria and fatalism from the men that believe that crap. As a woman of a certain age, I don’t find it offensive, just exaggerated and dumb.

Naebany · 2023-07-23T09:00:46+00:00

I don't think it's offensive. It's just sad reality for a lot of people and that can make them angry.

sweetbrown89 · 2023-07-23T09:39:54+00:00

The Pareto principle (80/20 rule) is simply a safe estimation that is backed up by generalities

There are other mathematical laws of parsimony (Occam’s razor) that are based on observational data — ex: the Crazification factor / Keyes’ Constant — an estimation that a rough total of 1 in 4 people are either crazy or answer in a way (the implication is sociopathy) purposely designed to mess with the data

The 80/20 rule is more of a safe approach in estimation, it’s not to be taken as a hard rule

When it comes to dating, I wouldn’t exactly be surprised if it were closer to 90/10 given how men exceed women on dating apps 2-3 to 1 — a mathematical model of why this is

Cethlinnstooth · 2023-07-23T06:02:38+00:00

Looks at boys crushed on in highschool and throughout life....they cluster around the central tendency.

Looks at guys I chose to have long term relationships with and thus had all the sex I was ever gonna have with...they cluster around the central tendency.

Looks at guy I had babies with. Ordinary but strangely.endearing.

Look at women I know. Similar experiences.

Looks at my adult daughter and her friends. Same.

Looks at those guys who still, despite me having given up dating and sex, don't actually make me want to poison their cornflakes then bury the body in a shallow grave...they cluster round the central tendency.

Raises this with guys who are into the 80/20...get mocked and told that just because I am better at some things and the guys better at other things...80/20 applies? Like...I can be earning more and have more social status and be widely regarded as the sexier one...but he...he could laze round playing guitar at parties and I never learned guitar! Checkmate bitch!

Decide that manosphere men are goddamn idiots and every time they open their mouths the world becomes a stupider place.

13choppedup2chopped · 2023-07-23T04:28:08+00:00

As a concept, it’s an offensive because it denies human choice. It’s basically saying people do not make choices, they conform to biological programming. It’s not meant to be a mathematical formula. It’s meant to convey a general trend: traits are not evenly distributed across a population.

januaryphilosopher · 2023-07-23T08:27:44+00:00

Because it's not true and shows that you're more interested in your own feelings about women than working out what they're like (actually interacting with women on a more than superficial level would tell you pretty clearly it's not true). Gaslighting an entire gender about what they feel because obviously you know based on nothing but feelings of being left out and flimsy connections with a single statistic from a dating app that doesn't even prove what you want it to is unlikely to go down well. Also, it isn't presented as something that's okay, but is followed by men whining about how this is bad or unfair. It's connected to a refusal to acknowledge that women have any issues especially in dating, such as claiming men are attracted to most (or all!) women which obviously makes women's lives so easy.

alexaxl · 2023-07-23T05:26:02+00:00

To keep the illusion that are not shallow alive.

And they can’t meet their own so called standards but feel entitled to have. lol.

It’s called a Harem. Enjoy.

itiswhatitis1090 · 2023-07-23T05:56:06+00:00

I think it's kind of hard to qualify what the top 20% really is. So there in itself is a problem with this. Just because you show someone a picture of their face doesnt account for everything else. Like height and muscles along with how much they make.

OrchidGreen7109 · 2023-07-23T08:19:18+00:00

It's not offensive, it's just stupid and wrong.

Shoddy-Donut-9339 · 2023-07-23T10:04:55+00:00

If women were holding out for a stereo typical 20% man they would not have been with me. They were with me. I probably had some good qualities but I was not that 20% man.

Times have changed since I was young. Dating apps are not good for finding and liking a man who is not in the top 20%. With so many men on the dating app why should women choose men that are not in the top 20% to chat with? If she won’t chat with me how is she supposed to discover that she likes me?

I would not have done well with dating apps.

If the guy is busy gaming how is he supposed to meet women?

Back in my day when women socialized with bottom 80% men, women often developed a fondness for one particular man who fit with her despite not being in the stereotypical top 20%.

I had pretty girlfriends in high school. I was not in the top 20% I had some casual sex in my 20s and married a woman who I thought was perfect when I was 28 and she was 24. She was pretty, fun, loving, hella smart, had unique original thoughts, and had beautiful mannerisms. She tried to warn me that she was damaged from child abuse but I was in love with her and did not believe her that she was damaged. She was right, she was damaged so no perfect marriage but 35 years later I am still in love with her.

On the surface if you don’t know about her child abuse scars she was in the top 20% of women and I was on the surface probably in the bottom 30% of men but I was better than bottom 30% if a woman got to know me.

She was friends of my friends and my friend high opinion of me probably played a role in why she flirted with me and gave me a chance.

I reject the top 20% theory. If women don’t like you something might be wrong with how you talk to women putting you in the bottom 30%.

This is probably a more difficult time for men in the bottom 60% but if you talk to women you might still end up with a good woman.

One pretty girl who was not attracted to me suddenly became attracted to me when she noticed that I cared about her. I was not hitting on her even though I cared about her. She hit on me after she caught me caring about her.

Outcast_Devil · 2023-07-23T10:38:38+00:00

Its a myth. People generally date within their league or tier of attractiveness. Guys in the 20th percentile aren't going to date Becky or any single moms. For the same reason why women in the same tier are not going to date rednecks or unemployed men who live with their parents.

The 80/20 myth is the equivalent of girls complaining they can't get dates because they're convinced that girls who look like Margot Robbie are sleeping with the average to above average males.

dyngladfel · 2023-07-23T08:59:25+00:00

A dating website ran a survey which is now held up as an irrefutable and eternal fact. It also implies women are all interested in the same 20% which I don't believe the original study even implied.

waffleznstuff30 · 2023-07-23T09:58:22+00:00

I think because it's so skewed. And self defeating and holistically untrue. But will swear by it. That we go for this illusive 20% of men. Leaving 80% of the men in the dust. It's just inc*l propaganda tbh.

Because we would collectively as a whole gender would have to come together and agree on a universal hot type. And that simply doesn't exist. Because everyone's taste is so vastly different. Every woman has a different type. Me and my coworker for example both single women. She likes bubble body guys like yolked out gym Bros with beards that are all ripped all manly and shit (UFC guys) . And for me I prefer soft features not a lot of facial hair nice skin fuller lips almost effeminate , fit to skinny fat body types. (Wyatt Shears from the garden i think would be an example of my type)

So our picks will look vastly different.

And it dismisses the bad behavior of men by the old pick better thing. Because you guys assume all of us are chasing after this tiny pool of 20% men. And they have pick of all the ladies and can afford to be utter and complete douchebags and don't have to be nice because they have a constant supply of clueless women chasing after them. Which is not the case at all. And also lumps women as some monolith instead of individuals? Which when I look at men they aren't a monolith each man his own thing. It takes that away I guess.

Mentathiel · 2023-07-23T09:59:39+00:00

First of all, it's false. OkCupid swiping preferences and irl mate choice are two different things. Women are more selective than men and judge attractiveness more harshly, but there's substantially more disagreement among women about who is attractive than there is among men, which means that although a single woman will not be attracted to most of the men she interacts with, she will be attracted to some men other women don't find attractive at all.

Second of all and probably more importantly lol, many of us have or had partners who we're strongly attracted to and care about, but who very much aren't the top 20% in appearance. You're denying our lived experience of being attracted to these people, which is a bit gaslighty, which does tend to produce an angry reaction in me.

Judging appearance coldly in a scientific study or in a dating app is much different from judging attraction irl. I always feel strongly attracted to people I'm in love with or flirtatious with, even though if I didn't know them at all and you put me in a study setting and had me rate their pictures with male model level guys besides them, I don't know how high would I score them tbh.

AutoModerator · 2023-07-23T03:39:58+00:00

Attention!

You can post off topic/jokes/puns as a comment to this Automoderator message.
For "CMV" and "Question for X" Threads: Parent comments that aren't from the target group will be removed, along with their child replies.
If you want to agree with OP instead of challenging their view or if the question is not targeted at you, post it as an answer to this comment.
OP you can choose your own flair according to these guidelines., just press Flair under your post!

Thanks for your cooperation and enjoy the discussion!

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

gcafoiundi · 2023-07-23T06:54:28+00:00

Imo that "top 20%/10%/1% men" thing are only true for young girls under 35 who are basically normies. Thank god they’re not my type, no matter how good they look

SrNetworkEngineer · 2023-07-23T07:04:31+00:00

There’s nothing wrong with having high standards, so long as you’re not shopping out of your price range.

Hysterical__Paroxysm · 2023-07-23T09:17:41+00:00

The only people I ever see offended by it are other men. They bitterly spit that 80% of women want only the top 20% of men.

Duh? We all want top tier partners.

Then the men will "comeback" with "well, men aren't too picky. At least we will settle!"

Ok? That says a lot about men... And it isn't good.

Women won't settle. We are perfectly happy being single if we can't have someone who doesn't meet our standards.

Plazmatron44 · 2023-07-23T11:28:35+00:00

Women frequently act as though being indignant towards something is it's self a counter argument that proves the thing they're being indignant about wrong.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2023-07-23T12:13:09+00:00

Because I know at some point Jordan Peterson probably talked about the Pareto principal and now men repeat it ad nauseum and apply it in incorrect ways. Like the word solipsism. He probably used that one too and then the parroting began.

It's offensive because these men aren't thinking they're vomiting up the same shit over and over and over again. I don't like faux intellectualism which is why I avoid Peterson in the first place.

WebBorn2622 · 2023-07-23T12:55:14+00:00

Because it’s not true.

And it’s really frustrating to have people insist their worldview that is based on a lie is a good excuse to be mean to you

Barice69 · 2023-07-23T13:25:17+00:00

Problem with to high standards if large procentege of population don't meet them a loot of people will be resentful towards holders of those standarsa

And if holder of the standarda doesn't find anybody good enough they will also be resentful

	% Men 18-29	% Women 18-29
Married	16%	27%
Living w/ Partner	9%	21%
Committed Romantic Relationship	18%	16%
Single	57%	36%

Title	Why is the 80/20 rule offensive?
Author	singguy1
Upvotes	36
Comments	276
Date	July 23, 2023 3:39 AM UTC (3 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/1573yrn/why_is_the_8020_rule_offensive/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-the-8020-rule-offensive.1226202 https://theredarchive.com/post/1226202

Comments