Why is there so much conversation about the amount of effort( or lack there of) that men put in when it comes to dating?

EugeneCezanne · 2022-02-08T23:52:48+00:00

Where to start? For one thing, women may want to have higher standards, but their ability to keep to them is limited by their availible options. Thus, if men are of generally low level, getting to choose among them isnt necessarily a treat.

For another, most women arent choosing men based on the effort they put in. They choose men because they like them. A lot of factors go into that liking, so it's not constructive to reduce this complex issue to a single variable.

Novadina · 2022-02-08T23:26:45+00:00

How can one be the selector, and the pursued, and yet still be upset with the level in which they are pursued by whom they selected?

It’s precisely because they are the ones pursued and there is so many more men on dating apps competing over the smaller number of women on there. A man will have to beat all the competition (other men pursuing her). This is just how supply and demand works.

It’s kind of like if there are more people wanting jobs than there are jobs, then job seekers are pursuing employers, but also have to go above and beyond to beat the competition and get a job. But if there are more job openings than qualified job seekers, it will reverse and companies will go above and beyond to convince people to work for them over their competitors.

ShinyBronze · 2022-02-08T22:24:00+00:00

Women are spoiled, that's why. They, usually, have to just wait for men to approach. They are accustomed to expending zero effort in their dating. When they dont get the results they feel they deserve, the idea of them doing more is unthinkable, so it must be the men not stepping up.

SylvestorTalone · 2022-02-09T02:50:26+00:00

Just assume that women will always, by default, be furious that there are any downsides and drawbacks to anything in life. Assume also that they will hold men collectively accountable for this fact.

Mobrowncheeks · 2022-02-09T01:17:50+00:00

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Sad_Top1743 · 2022-02-08T22:41:52+00:00

Self-Entitlement due to years of continuously inflated self perception. They think they’re Disney princess and that somehow their love is more powerful than any others. It’s a branch of narcissism.

NotTheBestMoment · 2022-02-08T23:19:58+00:00

Because doing so works out for them. If it didn’t work, they would do what does work. I’m speaking generally here

gimpgirl555 · 2022-02-08T22:15:19+00:00

How can one be the selector, and the pursued, and yet still be upset with the level in which they are pursued by whom they selected?

Because women have been sold the fantasy of many suitors who court them. When that doesn't happen women become upset and demand that men larp Pride and Prejudice or whatever fantasy they bought into.

Kentucky_Supreme · 2022-02-09T00:07:22+00:00

Women are valued simply for existing and damn near worshipped on social media. It's purely about their looks but they let all of the attention go straight to their heads and feed their entitlement.

And when it comes to dating, I've noticed they want the first date to be as if they've been a loyal, awesome girlfriend to the guy for the past 5 years.

januaryphilosopher · 2022-02-08T22:43:55+00:00

If women did the majority of the asking out or putting in effort, they wouldn't be seen as "picky". They'd still ask out who they liked but the men rejecting them would be seen as the picky ones. If you're the one with veto power rather than proposal power, naturally you're going to be seen as picky.

LouisdeRouvroy · 2022-02-09T02:52:37+00:00

Consumerist mentality : even if they're the ones chosing, they think they deserve something better for the same price.

juicyjuicery · 2022-02-09T05:35:15+00:00

Because sitcoms and Disney have brainwashed people into thinking that men need to play a certain role that capitalism doesn’t allow them to generally do

B1G_Fan · 2022-02-09T14:41:14+00:00

One of the most basic principles of economics:

People respond to incentives

Increasing the incentives to make dating more palatable for men requires discussing what women can do to make dating more worthwhile for men

That’s obviously not a conversation that feminists are eager to have

PlayfulLawyer · 2022-02-08T22:26:22+00:00

Because so many of these thirsty simp dudes will Heap validation and praise onto women that some of them think they're hotter shit than what they are, so the idea of a guy just being interested in asking her out to coffee feels like an insult or something like that lol, some of these broads really bought into that "yasss kween" mentality when some of them ain't good enough to be the court jester

LiftSushiDallas · 2022-02-08T22:23:49+00:00

Every woman is responsible for her choices.

I frankly don't care what other women do as they have NO affect on me in the sexual marketplace.

2022-02-08T23:29:47+00:00

The funny thing is even coffee dates are too much effort for most women. Most women don't deserve even that. Just text them to "hang out" at your place tbh.

2022-02-09T00:51:12+00:00

Men and women typically put in the same amount of effort, and yet we say men put zero effort in while women caterwall all over the dating pool, the only 'effort' spent is a coat of makeup and some matching clothes.

Pff

Smitten_Squire · 2022-02-09T04:56:00+00:00

First off all wtf is wrong with a coffee date? Why are girls calling coffee dates low effort? Do they really want the guy to dress up, hire a limo, and take her to a 5 course meal at a fancy restaurant??? Cuz that sounds cringe and weird for someone you just met.

A coffee date is low stress for both parties and a easy way to see if compatible. If a girl hates on coffee dates then she's stuck up and weird, get with it ladies

SupermarketFun21 · 2022-02-08T23:42:28+00:00

Same reason you might complain about a Doordash delivery taking too long. As hard as it is to comprehend for a 3rd world person who has to scrounge for food, your environment has set an expectation that you can barely lift a finger and have a large quantity of delicious food whenever you want it. When you have an experience that falls short of that expectation, you're annoyed. Same with women and their expectations when it comes to dating.

mandoa_sky · 2022-02-09T01:21:38+00:00

can't speak for anyone else but i go on "coffee dates" all the time - although what they actually are are meetings with clients. so for me when i go on one, it's hard to turn off the "business/professional mindset".

so for me it'd have to be something different.

Gerpstarg · 2022-02-09T07:04:57+00:00

Its unnatractive 3/10 women who date 9/10 men, get used for sex and then moan and complain but no one cares because pumping and dumping is already done and their tears are not bothering anyone

M_LaSalle · 2022-02-09T14:10:11+00:00

How can one be the selector, and the pursued, and yet still be upset with the level in which they are pursued by whom they selected?

women are the way that they are because they are biologically hard wired to be that way, because they have been bred to be that way through millions of years of accumulated mating choices. Thus 80/20. Women only find a small number of men attractive, and if the reason the guy was unattractive wasn't the effort he put in it would be something else.

Mobrowncheeks · 2022-02-09T16:23:30+00:00

[permanently deleted]

2022-02-09T20:16:15+00:00

There is this conversation because most women are straight up blind to this topic and then having the nerves to complain about low effort men in dating when in reality any of these low effort guys putting in at least 5 times and more effort into EVERY single women he dates or tries to date then she ever will do on any date.

Then some women say that men are socially inept but guess what? Women are equally socially inept but because they assume the passive role in everything and aren't required to take any risk or being bold this usually doesn't show. In social situations just observe what women say exactly and you will notice that they only go the most political correct way and safe route (which also doesn't have to be their actual worldview) and give the responsibility to spice the conversation up to men. Then men are forced to take a risk being in danger to say the "wrong thing" or they are boring if they do what women do.

squashqueen · 2022-02-10T03:14:18+00:00

Because their level of effort should match my level of effort. I simply want the energy I give, to be returned. It's that simple.

-Giga- · 2022-02-09T01:07:24+00:00

So why is that even though women are the ones who chose, we hear conversations about the amount of effort that men put in every day?

Why is it when a women makes her choice about who she will actually deal with, is it not her responsibility to put in effort.

Your gender overflows with scammers. Why should women spend lifetimes doing twice as much for men who lied their way into peoples lives? U think that divorce rate most women drive comes from men being GOOD partners?

If your employer pulled a bait and switch and instead used your body for slavery, you would complain. Because you would not opt in to such a shitty deal

Men, namely manospherian types disincentivize women from entertaining anyone low effort. They do it by demonizing EVERYTHING it is to be a women to no end.

Women used to be able to pretend a man was different when he at least put in effort.

Now you have delusional fucks acting like brats because they want to help themselves to your body and peace of mind, to hell what happens to u after.

PROBLEM IS

You punish women for femininity. Aging. Childbirth. Working. Not working. Having sex with anyone. Making mistakes and trusting the wrong men. You ignore how men lie. You punish everything associated with dealing with a member of the male sex. And the outcomes, when wrong, last our lifetimes.

You dont get to be male, unattractive, unimpressive, uninterested, doing nothing, carrying all the above risk and then whine about women refusing to OPT IN to that.

Men in this sub need to stop lying to themselves about EnTiTlEmEnT. In real life, there are a notable amount of women sick to death of carrying some useless male through life. Yall keep forcing young women into motherly roles being so low effort you dont have your shit together. The least you can do is try to be likable.

Feisty-Saturn · 2022-02-08T23:49:47+00:00

I think the expectation is that depending on your age, there are dating norms that you follow. Personally I don’t have an issue with coffee dates, im often counting macros, so it’s easier for me to have a 0 calorie coffee than go out to dinner and break my meal plan. However, at my age i do believe a dinner date is the norm. I can understand a woman thinking a man is breaking the norm because he is either broke or he wants to invest as little as possible into her.

figuringMylife · 2022-02-08T23:57:08+00:00

just get a pickme or a girl who doesn’t care about ur effort and go

cowfishAreReal · 2022-02-08T22:16:58+00:00

Just because one woman was bitching about stuff it doesn't mean all women do

Why is there so much conversation about the amount of effort( or lack there of) that men put in when it comes to dating?

Do you have any evidence for that?

Barneysparky · 2022-02-09T03:46:25+00:00

A coffee date is great if it's an earnest getting to know you, make plans for a real date if things go well, the date is extended with a public walk because it's going so well, again with plans to meet up next week at a fun activity.

It is not great when a guy meets for coffee and offers the invitation to go somewhere private/tries to close.

What's so hard about getting to know someone before getting naked?

I know I know... The woman may once have hooked up with her cousin's friend at a wedding, so if she doesn't have sex with you within a few hours of meeting you she's not giving you her best? (Mornic thinking)

I have said this a million times. When dating the guys I clicked with did not try and close the first date. The blah dates always ended with the guy inviting me back to his place.

The guys I clicked with first dates, including my husband ended with a really nice kiss, which TMI left me thinking about nothing but them until I could see them again..

The pills are teaching guys to have sex on the first date. This is a really, really bad idea.

sarkington · 2022-02-08T23:10:12+00:00

Because pump n dump

Educational-Ad6210 · 2022-02-09T00:40:44+00:00

If they don’t get more than a coffee date ever - the problem is them: they are either aiming too high or are very non desirable. Prob both: they are undesirable for the partners they have in mind. If they agree to go to bed for a croissant and a medium cappuccino, that’s also on them: you either stand your ground or don’t complain.

The other side of the coin is that plenty of men think that they should just be able to slide that d into a girl who is attractive and desirable, and get upset when she puts “no coffee dates, I want you to put effort” on Tinder, like she is supposed to be a charity for all the dudes who want her. You are gonna say “but he is willing to spend time with her for free”, and I’m gonna say “but those are not the same things”, and you are gonna say “it’s prostitution”, and I don’t care what you call it. And you are gonna say “I can just hire an escort” and nobody is going to cry about it (besides the escort). An 8-10 should absolutely put up the high walls around her in the form of financial-looks-effort barriers for entry, and there will be guys who take her out to a steakhouse so you and your Starbucks is ridiculous and she has every right to call you a moron, because the amount of effort you put is not proportionate to her looks.

That being said, if nobody finds the woman’s barriers worth climbing, the problem is her: the barriers are too high in comparison with the potential return.

whitehack · 2022-02-08T23:49:33+00:00

Because plain and simple: they DO have to put in way too much effort relative to what (as a situation and relationship) and who they’re likely to get for it.

AggressiveEconomy809 · 2022-02-09T11:16:11+00:00

It's linked to the paradox of choices.
Women on average have a really massive amount of potential pursuer.
When you select a choice, you still have in mind the other 999 choices you didn't picked, and your future 1000 choices. You don't "dismiss them" yet.

You go on a date with someone. If the guy don't put a lot of efforts on the date to keep your attention, your mind will obviously go to all those choices. "Maybe the next one would have bring flowers? or maybe 5 swipes away a sexy guy would have come with a sport car?"
And that's why men puts more efforts, only to keep attention of the girl.

For us, I understand it's not easy to think like that. You got 1 match, you focus your energy on that one. You want to make it work, you stopped swiping, you don't start with other people. It's normal to expect the same thing from the other side.

Is that fair? Absolutely not. But ask yourself what you would do if you had a line of hundreds of pretty women each weeks ready to date. You would probably also skip over the next one if your first choice don't work out as well as you desired.

But I absolutely don't understand why cofee dates are so pejorative. I never met you for real, you never met me in person. I don't know who I'm going with. With a cofee date, We can freely talk around a drink, sitting at a cafee, and if it worked well I'll invite you to eat something at a nearby restaurant to discuss and learn about each other more. If the date go wrong, we only lost 15minutes of our lives, we say goodbye and voilà. The girl I invite can leave at any moment without seeming rude (finish cofee, pay, leave, instead of being stuck in an awkward situation till dessert or leave in the middle of the meal hurting the man.)

DreamsOfWishes · 2022-02-08T23:17:00+00:00

I just came from a relationship advice post where the woman was dating her boyfriend of 2 years, who was still hung up on her ex.

That's why you don't ask someone out. You don't want to end up like that. 2 years, in love and he's in love with his ex.

Few-Horror7281 · 2022-02-08T23:48:36+00:00

Any amount is better than no amount, I would think.

decoy88 · 2022-02-09T02:24:50+00:00

The reason I thought of this was because of a video of a woman complaining about coffee dates, though she wouldn’t ask anyone on a date.

Honestly the only fathomable reason for this is that she's big mad that men are starting to wise up. I'm happy to hear that coffee dates are becoming more common than dinner dates

goatismycopilot · 2022-02-09T02:27:20+00:00

Men and women are probably perceiving and defining effort quite differently.

If a man suggests a dinner date and picks a chain restaurant I am going to see him as lazy and dull and say no. It is not about the money I know a ton of moderate and reasonably priced places to grab a meal or an appetizer. I know where the decent cocktails are and even some places that make good mocktails. I am also up on my good BBQ and soul food places that are in the hood. Memphis takes soul food and BBQ very seriously. So it is about intent.

When I think of effort that is where I am at.

onJuputerandMars · 2022-02-08T22:34:03+00:00

I don’t really agree with the premise that women are pickier.

Someone can agree to a date and then be disappointed with the date. I think in your example it’s about the effort they feel the other putting into them. I think it’s unreasonable to expect more than a coffee date for a first date, but that doesn’t need to stop anyone from feeling disappointed with this result.

I don’t agree that men should be solely responsible for the content of every date- this is in line with FDS philosophy that I strongly disagree with. Women should and do contribute to dates.

It does not go without saying that a man has already put in enough effort if a woman has chosen a date or relationship with him. Choice to be with someone is ongoing in both directions and free to change.

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Pola_Lita · 2022-02-09T02:31:04+00:00

So we all know females are the more picky sex, and there for only chose to interact with certain men. So why is that even though women are the ones who chose, we hear conversations about the amount of effort that men put in every day?

Because most men don't put in enough effort. Isn't that what is said in the conversations?

No matter what, every woman has a threshold for the caliber of man that she is willing to deal with. But there are plenty more men who don’t fit that mold who she could also be dealing with.

Define "could". As in "could if she ignored her ideas about the caliber of men she was interested in"?

Why is it when a women makes her choice about who she will actually deal with, is it not her responsibility to put in effort. It already goes without saying that the man she has chosen has already put enough effort into his life for her to select him in the first place.

What are women saying that makes you believe they won't contribute? This is too vague. When you say the man has already put enough effort into his life, how does this apply to the arrangements for the date itself? Someone has to do that, right?

How can one be the selector, and the pursued, and yet still be upset with the level in which they are pursued by whom they selected?

Easily. A selection and dating and sex and relationship happens in stages. Each stage has its own requirements.

RealNiceLady · 2022-02-09T03:21:20+00:00

My only complaint is guys that pursue sex and not relationship.

decoy88 · 2022-02-09T07:25:52+00:00

People… complain. It’s like human nature. Dafuq?

I don’t understand the confusion about why people complain about stuff.

Sxdhaley · 2022-02-09T08:46:09+00:00

What’s wrong with you men… Because we are still allowed to have standards even if you want us?

chromie96 · 2022-02-09T00:45:15+00:00

Women tend to put a lot of effort into their physical appearance before a date. Make up, cute outfit, nails, hair etc etc. Therefore it can be kind of upsetting if a guy shows up in gross jeans and flip flops

venusmyheart · 2022-02-09T02:57:12+00:00

A lot of the comments in this thread villainise women.

if we see things from a biological aspect. When a woman is pregnant with a child she is basically helpless, cannot do things on her own, vulnerable and totally dependent on the man. Whereas a guy can have sex with as many women as they want, it's not the same for women.

That's why a lot of dating advise for women focus on how much effort a man puts. Because if a woman chooses a guy who doesn't care for her, he's not going to be there for her child and has to fend herself. Vs a guy who puts in effort ensures that he cares for her and will be there to help raise the child and not abandon her during her vulnerable months of pregnancy and post partrum.

richlad · 2022-02-09T04:00:44+00:00

Women are selectors but doesn't mean they select from a pool of millions of men.

Women mostly select from handful of men around them.

Most women when they become teenagers come to see the evil side of men, the ones who will blackmail them for seeing their naked body or the ones who will try to overpower her.

So women have to pick a safe man who can be trusted. Not many men fit the bill. What happens is the safe man often times is simply a guy who doesn't do anything (nor good actions, nor bad actions)

Who are the men having consider power and wealth in society? It's the same dark triad men, who will fuck over each other when they get opportunity. Women want what these men achieve but not what these men have (dark triads)

So naturally women begin to think that good men aren't putting much effort into them.

neetykeeno · 2022-02-09T14:51:22+00:00

Demanding significant effort from men is one of the ways women screen out men who aren't even slightly interested in a long term relationship and only want sex. It isn't a perfect filter...but it is an easy to use filter and isn't the only filter.

Flashy-Light6048 · 2022-02-09T15:04:16+00:00

If you avoid men who want coffee dates you avoid men who are using the shotgun method of going out with a bunch of women they may or may not even like to try to get to sleep with some of them. If you set the bar higher, by requiring a dinner date with a certain level of effort, men aren’t going to bother with you unless they’re actually interested in you. It’s a way of weeding out guys who may settle for you but don’t see you as worthy of a lot of effort up front.

beatrixkilldo · 2022-02-09T17:38:28+00:00

In what way do women not consistently put in more effort? I’m super curious. Because women get married and die sooner because of how unbalanced the work and emotional load is.

Itburns12345 · 2022-02-10T12:40:45+00:00

Because older women are strugggling to grasp the newer dating scene of young women and putting down coffee or walk dates as low effort., they cant grasp the sheer volume of thirsty dudes online.

The reality is with the rise of OLD these dates are part of a young ladies selection process. Of the absolute swarm of date requests shel get online she can filter down to a few coffee dates and of those a select few will get a 'proper date' Sorta like a modern dating reality show with its 'elimination' stages.

Stunning-Potato-1984 · 2022-02-10T18:27:12+00:00

I don't drink coffee or tea so a coffee date would be awkward. A lot of coffee shops are loud. It just seems like meeting a prospective client or business contact.

I think activity dates are best. Nothing intense just having that shared experience and fun. If it goes well maybe a meal after if things went well to talk more in depth now that the pressure is taken off.

gopher_glitz · 2022-02-11T02:52:48+00:00

I wonder if the western world will end up like Japan. Men doing the math on women and figuring the juice is not worth the squeeze and then women just doing what they've always done....nothing.

Title	Why is there so much conversation about the amount of effort( or lack there of) that men put in when it comes to dating?
Author	Mobrowncheeks
Upvotes	56
Comments	343
Date	February 8, 2022 10:11 PM UTC (4 years ago)
Subreddit	Posted in /r/PurplePillDebate
Original Link	https://old.reddit.com/r/PurplePillDebate/comments/snwexe/why_is_there_so_much_conversation_about_the/
Archive Link	https://theredarchive.com/r/PurplePillDebate/why-is-there-so-much-conversation-about-the-amount.1211137 https://theredarchive.com/post/1211137

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