CMV: I think women on these subreddit are more likely to get men to have negative perception of women than redpill community

Jambi1913 · 2023-06-05T05:35:45+00:00

I can sympathise. When I first stumbled upon this subreddit and the wider “manosphere” I was deeply troubled and hurt by what a lot of men said about women. I honestly thought that kind of sexism was not as common and the way some men talked about women was/is so deeply scornful and like they think women are an inferior species. I’ve had some good interactions with the men here, but I’ve had far more that have left me feeling like men are pretty terrible if they all think like that (and some men here claim all men do think the way they do, they just don’t admit it because they want sex). The way some women online talk about men is also terrible and I too have read some “feminist” writers that make my skin crawl with their misandry and lack of morals.

I just hope you realise - as I came to - that these attitudes are usually exaggerations and are not commonplace in real life. Don’t let them muddy your spirit - keep an open and positive mind.

throwaway1276444 · 2023-06-05T10:44:21+00:00

I read a post in which a wife had suggested using a sperm bank so that the kids wouldn't be as short as the man. Because he was short and the kids would be short too. He was the poster and was distraught that his wife had even thought this.

The thread was full of women calling the man insecure for being short, and making excuses for how the wife was didn't mean anything hurtful.

My jaw dropped at how many women were in support.

eye_of_gnon · 2023-06-05T09:21:35+00:00

A lot of women on reddit are embittered from having bad relationships or not getting the guy they want, that's why they spend everyday writing like 100 comments. No normal happy person does that

And yeah sure there are male equivalents in the manosphere. Best not to judge either sex from what you see on the internet

GlasgaAccentfurYanks · 2023-06-05T03:52:57+00:00

I think reading content condemning the ill deeds of men while identifying as a man being critiqued is probably detrimental if done too often, the internet should be thought of as a pressure release valve, especially places such as twitter, here and youtube comment sections, it is often memes (caricatures) talking to memes - the same setlist of ideas makes the rounds, the older ones who have heard it all before, the younger fiery true believers charging in proclaiming this is the world as it is. Even you, worrying about all this stuff is a positive sign as it is a reflective and thoughtful post but the problem is when the net becomes considered as a realistic mirror of the world you physically interact with although the gap is growing narrow and narrower it seems.

I am sure not every women is pushing hookup culture but I don't think they are here.

I mean who actively "pushes hookup culture" people live it for sure but only because they inherited it and grew up in it, freedom and its consequences. Something something wisdom is pain.

Happy days.

TSquaredRecovers · 2023-06-05T23:04:26+00:00

Oof. Your major problem here is making all of your judgment calls and assumptions on women based off of online interactions. You don’t actually know any women at all. It’s ridiculous to make these assumptions and blanket statements while not knowing a single woman in real life.

fiftypoundpuppy · 2023-06-06T04:35:31+00:00

This sub is 99.99999% bashing women for feminism, n-count, single motherhood, our standards, who we do like, who we don't like, on and on and on it goes.

Even if I thought "the other side" may have a semblance of a point, I'm not particularly likely to admit it for several reasons:

1) there will be more than enough men co-signing and circle- jerking each other off about oUr TrUe NaTuRe as it is. Even if I did like "Chads," I'd be held up as AWALT and all the women saying to the contrary would be inevitably declared either "liars" or "outliars" (misspelled intentionally);

2) in the event I disagree with men's blanket declarations about women, I'll merely be written off as lying as I have been repeatedly before;

3) any and all statistics that disprove red pill assertions are invariably written off as women simply lying because we have a "vested interest" in doing so;

4) to that effect, any statistics that even remotely support red pill assertions are repeated ad infinitum even though the data doesn't really warrant it (e.g. studies showing that women cheat slightly more than men in one age group of several is routinely paraded around like women objectively cheat more than men)

There's no ability here for women to genuinely have a good faith dialogue with red and black pilled men. They are far too utterly convinced with religious fervor of their "truth," and any attempts to state otherwise are also denied with the same religiosity. Maybe if the men here could soften their stance and be open to the crazy idea that maybe AWANLT, we could reach some understanding. "Some women do like tall guys. Some don't care. Most just want you to be taller than them."

But we can't do that, because AWALT and anyone who says differently is a lying liar and all women do is monkey branch and dream of Chad while she pity fucks her average partner.

So as a result of the stubbornness and religious fervor of men here, women quickly realize we can't give an inch without y'all taking a mile. So we have to dig in our heels just as much, and everyone ends up just talking past each other.

Don't get it twisted - this is largely a red pill forum that demonized women first. We're just responding to the daily onslaught of vitriol that we get here, and it's taken out of context as us being "unable to acknowledge different world views." 🙄

eefr · 2023-06-05T04:17:28+00:00

These women on the internet are making me think women are nothing but cheaters who only care about sex and only get into relationships with "safe" men.

How exactly are you getting this idea from the many women around here, myself included, who are in happy monogamous long-term relationships with men we actually like?

AngeCruelle · 2023-06-05T03:44:04+00:00

Anyone who gains a "negative perception" of anything solely from the internet needs to take a break and go outside

YveisGrey · 2023-06-05T16:27:18+00:00

I actually find that men online are more toxic than women generally speaking. Also as far as I know none of the online misandrists communities have led to actual crimes being committed against men particularly in the form of indiscriminate attacks and murders akin to what we have seen with those incel attacks.

Yes some women are misandrists for sure but they have not proven themselves to be more dangerous to men than misogynists are to women.

Ex of horrible things men engage with online against women.

Revenge porn, encouraging or endorsing sex trafficking, rape and sexual assault against women and even minors. Omg don’t even get me started on the pedophilia that men routinely engage in and promote online, I even see men advocating to lower age of consent laws!

Say what you will about misandrists but I never see them advocating for women to assault men sexually, rape little boys, or engage in things like revenge porn.

I have to constantly remind myself that not all men think this way but not gonna lie it’s quite scary to think of how many do.

Gr4nd45 · 2023-06-05T11:35:44+00:00

But I never was into redpill or Andrew Tate so I never developed a unhealthy mindset of women.

Both of them get some things right. The push for men to actually value themselves is great, honestly. Because most men severely undervalue themselves and put women on a pedestal. Which ultimately leads to unsatisfactory relationship for both.

gofigure62 · 2023-06-05T13:38:25+00:00

Frankly, people who shape their world view and personal opinions around the entire demographic of people that they haven't had any real world experience with are low IQ.

It doesn't make sense for a man or a woman to become bitter or hateful towards the opposite sex simply because they read opinions of strangers on the internet or watched a Youtube video. These people that are easily influenced by commentary instead of real world influence are simply looking for a punching bag to project their rage onto for other aspects of life that they can't control or feel exploited by.

However, there are men and women who have had LEGITIMATE habitual negative REAL LIFE experiences with the opposite sex in a multitude of ways. For them, reading comments and watching content that solidifies their negative personal experiences with the opposite sex is far easier to justify and empathize with. There are a significant amount of shitty and down right dangerous/abusive people who have exploited and traumatized the opposite sex. It's pretty ignorant to overwhelmingly claim that SOME men and women have no reason to fear or down right hate the opposite sex, considering some of the experiences that they had specifically.

IMO there is zero justification for anyone shaping their world view off of the opposite sex on experiences that they have never had and especially when they rarely interact with the opposite sex.

It's far more justifiable if someone who has had consistent negative experiences with the opposite sex gets more polarized or extreme from extreme or outlandish takes from the opposite sex that mirror their personal experiences with the opposite sex.

ROBYoutube · 2023-06-05T06:28:25+00:00

So you looked at the words of men and women in this sub and it's women that you don't respect? In order to change your view I first have to ask if you think you might have some unexamined biases that are tipping the scales a little?

gate18 · 2023-06-05T11:26:44+00:00

As a man who never really interacted with women that much and lived his under a rock his own life I became a gullible person. But I never was into redpill or Andrew Tate so I never developed a unhealthy mindset of women.

The only kind of women I meet are the ones online and boy they have had a stronger factor in shaping my perspective on women than any of the redpill content I watched and it's not positive at all.

Dude. Your problem is your real life. Fuck women (and men) online. They are all, every single one of them, fake.

I have seen women on relationship advice shaming men for being concerned about his wife clubbing till 4 am and telling him people cheat in all kinds of place not just clubs. In another post the women are like maybe she just enjoys taking her wedding ring off cause blah.

And? Depending on the websites you go to you will read even worse!

I have even read a feminist article about women who was had affair with a man and demands and expects sympathy from friends and downplays the emotional damage cheating has.

You can also read comments from men that come home drunk and slap their woman around. What does that mean?

Your problem is your real life. Fuck women (and men) online.

Honestly the biggest problem about these women, is their inability to acknowledge there are different world views not everyone is hyper focused on the individual capacity to perform a certain behavior without judgment maybe there is something else we care about.

Tons of people that that problem: red pills, black pills, republicans, liberals, communists, nazis... human nature. why would these subgroups "get [HEALTHY AND STABLE] men to have negative perception of women" - are men retarded to believe that 10-100-10,000 comments online prove that women in real life are XYZ?

Nellylocheadbean · 2023-06-05T10:36:26+00:00

A lot of the women here try to keep the “women are wonderful” trope running. They can’t fathom that Women of today are just as bad as the men they complain about.

MarBitt · 2023-06-05T07:02:53+00:00

OK. Now try to mention the same number of positive and good things that you have noticed in posts from women lately. Because even such posts appear online from women. If you can't think of any, then you have proof that you are purposefully choosing and remembering the bad. And only you are responsible for that.

Also, don't forget that people who write online usually have some problem, often these are controversial things that they would not want to talk about with their acquaintances in real life. Few people write posts like: "My life is amazing, my relationship is great, my husband is a wonderful and loving guy who I respect and am grateful for every day."

2023-06-05T10:31:48+00:00

telling him people cheat in all kinds of place not just clubs.

This is true though. A woman who enjoys clubbing isn't more/ less likely to cheat because a venue doesn't make you cheat, just like attending church doesn't make you less likely to cheat.

their inability to acknowledge there are different world views not everyone is hyper focused on the individual capacity to perform a certain behavior without judgment

Isn't this what you're doing? Nobody likes to be judged unfairly. The women you see online are expressing their opinion about things men judge them for.

thankfully I am trying to meet real women who are not like the women on here

The women here are real women who could say the same thing about wanting to meet 'real men' who see us as people and not the caricature that TRP paints us to be. It really is a two way street.

I have seen women here defending the separation of sex and romance without understanding our fears about how it will affect romantic culture.

People are allowed to have a different opinion about the connection between romance/ sex. A lot of men separate sex/ romance too so it isn't just women. If you see sex and romance as inextricably linked, then you prob need a partner who views it the same way, neither is right or wrong and I will defend people's right to view it however they wish.

Also romantic culture is not a monolith, not every woman is casual about sex/ relationships. A lot of women, including women on here, are monogamous but we still defend the right for other women to do what they want with their lives, regardless of men's fears which are also not a monolith as many men want women who separate the two.

Soloandthewookiee · 2023-06-05T13:00:22+00:00

These women on the internet are making me think women are nothing but cheaters who only care about sex and only get into relationships with "safe" men

The problem is that when these views that women and feminists supposedly hold are brought up, time and time again we find that they are held by a very narrow percentage of women (who often are just labeled "feminists"), if they even exist at all. And then these extremist views are compared to the misogyny that red pillers express every day, as though it's an equal comparison.

And then there's just plain made up views like women are responsible for pushing "hookup culture". First, hook up culture isn't a thing; people have been having sex outside of committed relationships for all of human history. Secondly, men clearly have larger demand for casual sex (and there have even been red pill posts to this effect). It's not men who have inboxes full of unsolicited nudes and explicit messages sent within minutes of matching, so I'm not sure why you're placing the blame on women.

No-Chance-8405 · 2023-06-05T13:13:27+00:00

Can you please elaborate for me what kind of men's insecurities you address?

The other issue that I see criticised in your post is the hookup culture and sexual liberties utilised by women (what about men though?)

I share your concerns (I wouldn't call them insecurities) regarding the effects of the hookup culture on romantic relationships. Even though sexual liberties and hookups are pushed and celebrated as freedom, I don't think it's something positive, and I say that as a woman online :)

Judging from comments online it makes the impression that values like love, loyalty and commitment are dead and everybody is only engaging in mindless sex, not seeing the other person as someone with dreams, fears and feelings any more. It's all about me, me, me: 'I want my fun and my orgasm, and I want it by date one, otherwise I will move on to the next target and ghost the previous one.' That's highly concerning if it's really the norm. But is it?

In real life men and women still get together for love, still marry and start families and support each other, and build a wonderful life together without participating in 'games' and the extremes that we read online.

Let me tell you that this sub has shed a negative light on men for me too. I find the debate here interesting, but I must consciosly remind myself that the men here are not representative for the entire population. If I believed that I would choose to be single. Fortunately I know men in real life who are amazing individuals with healthy values and whom I like and respect. There are all kind of women out there as well.

fakingandnotmakingit · 2023-06-05T04:33:55+00:00

And being on this sub reddit and reading redpill forums and andrew tate would give me the impression that all men are sexist misogynistic turds who want women to thank them for not being rapists 24/7.

Wahmen wouldn't even have rights if we didn't want them to! But all they do is whine about how bad we are! Bet if civilization collapsed they'd feel more grateful about how we don't abuse them all the time! Men built civilisation ant whyre the superior sex. Child rearing and cleaning isn't work and not important work. Wait you don't want to do that for me anymore? How dare you!

Oh look i can Strawman just too!

Somehow though we all manage to function in real life by touching grass

c0pkill3r · 2023-06-05T13:53:10+00:00

separation of sex and romance without understanding our fears about how it will affect romantic culture

No. I think I understand it better than you do. That's why anyone would push for it.

I am trying to meet real women who are not like the women on here

Then why are you sitting here making this post? Leave. You are like Mark Zuckerberg.

EugeneCezanne · 2023-06-05T18:11:49+00:00

These women on the internet are making me think women are nothing but cheaters who only care about sex

You realize this has always been the common stereotype of men, right?

houstongradengineer · 2023-06-06T03:01:01+00:00

Hold up. I've only ever been with one man, and I married someone who lied to me about his past, and you think I'm a cheat who married a safe dude?

I might be naive, I might be coarse, I might be constantly anxious, I might be poor, and I might be underachieving in some ways. But I am absolutely not those 2 things. Those are like the only 2 things in the world where I can say "Oh Hell no, I actively turned down cheating and I probably married the most unsafe guy I ever crushed on or dated." If I ever leave him, it's gonna be because he's too unsafe, not too safe. Believe that. Oh, and he still isn't a bad dude compared to most of the dudes on this site, no matter what.

Scandi_Navy · 2023-06-06T03:28:43+00:00

Well yes, that is how the RP forms. By men seeing this shit, and then talking about it on a forum. Congrats you have learned how it started.

TikTok makes more RP men than Tate's minute of fame ever did.

xTakki27 · 2023-06-06T08:19:18+00:00

I have seen women on relationship advice shaming men for being
concerned about his wife clubbing till 4 am and telling him people cheat
in all kinds of place not just clubs. In another post the women are
like maybe she just enjoys taking her wedding ring off cause blah.

To be fair, I'd rather be seen as possessive and controlling, than allowing something like this...

There are tons of stories online, where the wife then came back and it became apparent, that she cheated

Ergo, I'd rather be seen as paranoid and volatile than being cucked by my own wife.
I've got that much self-respect left

Ok_Tomorrow_3963 · 2023-06-05T03:31:54+00:00

are the women here really that far off from women "out there"? I'm not convinced.

toasterchild · 2023-06-05T15:17:30+00:00

You are cherry picking though. For every woman standing up for another taking off her wedding ring when she goes out there are a bunch who disagree with that decision. All you are learning here is that women are actual people not a singular entity. When you are dating you should pick one who shares your values as much as possible.

Why would it hurt you in any way that women exist that you don't agree with? Simply don't date women you don't like.

Coolio_Street_Racer · 2023-06-05T14:55:53+00:00

Talking to women on here has only further cemented my belief in RP.

The amount of times a women has said. I don't like 6 ft guys, only for her bf to be 6 ft is just hilarious.

MiddleZealousideal89 · 2023-06-05T05:13:34+00:00

By ''here'' do you mean this sub in particular or the Internet in general?

Flightlessbirbz · 2023-06-05T11:36:37+00:00

I think people, women included, have a harder time being empathetic to others online and yes you will encounter rudeness and not the nicest behavior. That being said, I’m not seeing all these women saying they’re cheaters, only interested in sex, only get into relationships with “safe” men, etc.? At least on this sub, I’ve never seen it that I can recall. Most of the women here seem to be in monogamous relationships. Which subs were you referring to where women talk about doing these things? It’s more men saying it about women.

This sub and other male-dominated online spaces definitely make me more wary of men. But I haven’t seen anywhere where women talk about men in the same totally disgusting and degrading ways that men in these communities talk about women, unless it’s a direct reaction to men talking about women like that.

I also make a habit of touching grass to put everything into perspective and avoid feeling overly negative about gender relations. It’s good to have an awareness of what’s out there, but with the knowledge that these subs tend to draw people who are angry or struggling.

NoTea4448 · 2023-06-05T16:06:59+00:00

I kinda relate to this. Misandrists on tiktok who champion feminism have made me hate feminism.

I bet women who spend time on this subreddit and incel echo chambers probably feels the same way about men's rights. Why should I give a fuck about the problems of the opposite sex, when they clearly don't care about mine and blame me for all of theirs?

The internet does not give us a fair and charitable interpretation about the opposite and sex and their problems. I kinda wish I never saw the brainrot I did on tiktok and reddit. I was way more empathetic before the internet ruined my mind.

OkPresentation8217 · 2023-06-05T06:22:16+00:00

This is absolute nonsense.

Reddit's anonymity and feminism has empowered women to drop the curtain now.

A pink pill radical feminist is what a woman truly is.

You can put restraints on her by institutions in the real world, but that doesn't change the fact that you are controlling her for your delusion...

Power only explains people...

Women don't care about men as long as they are provided and protected by the state.

The majority of divorces are initiated by women and there are studies which show that women are happier living single.

So stop this nonsense 'real world women are better'.

If you want to go back to delusion, feel free to go. But stop deluding others.

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Cobra_x30 · 2023-06-05T12:13:44+00:00

You are taking this the wrong direction. Places like this should be where you learn how to talk to women without actually doing it in real life. It allows you to test out modes of thought and see how women react to them with no consequences.

You seem to be most upset that women aren't sensitive to your insecurities. That isn't going to change and in real life they are only going to pretend to care because that's what is expected of them. So, you are probably getting a heck of a lot more fakeness in real life from women.

As a man, it's your job to wrestle with and conquer your insecurities. When it comes to this... women are like sharks and insecurities are like a bleeding wound. When they sense the blood in the water you will be devoured... especially if you are in a relationship with her. They will not tolerate insecure men either online or in real life. Get used to that because it's just how life works... whining and crying about it does nothing to change it.

sunrathna · 2023-06-06T04:49:56+00:00

I ultimately agree with you here honestly the toxicity from these men are revolting and tbf I have nothing against women as whole. I made this post because I was bored and was in fighting mood but in reality my hate does not lie with women. My hatred is for capitalism specifically the progressive branch of capitalism that we all like to call liberals. I hate liberals with a passion. And like I support the basis of women liberation right I don't want women to live in a society where they have to be anxious 24/hr where as we men don't have to. I do have empathy for women and what they go through. So don't get it twisted that I am like these men. I only care about protecting my cultural values and the things that make me happy. I think we are all entitled to protect what makes us happy

Popular_Earth_1456 · 2023-06-05T10:15:25+00:00

Well yeah on redpill they just talk about how shitty women are. Ok ppd women can show us how shitty they are first hand

gymbronyc718 · 2023-06-05T10:49:30+00:00

You cannot understand women through your male referential system. Don't even try. Women will spend an entire Sunday shopping, not buying anything and being happy about it. They will spend 3 hours in a bathroom to go out. What do they do there? Comb their pussy hairs to all face the same direction?

You can't understand them and listening to them is even worse. You will go crazy. David X rule #1 stipulates "Who cares what they think". I sincerely advise you to live by it.

VehementlyDrawn · 2023-06-05T14:14:54+00:00

The secret is that it's not just internet women, bro. The internet is just what you get when people are unfiltered via anonymity.

oooo020201lfl · 2023-06-05T16:24:33+00:00

Yeah glad I’m not the only one who thought this.

I come on here to try and change my views and then I read what women are saying and I’m like…..oh

questioningfeminist · 2023-06-05T22:22:23+00:00

While the women are part of the problem, I can say, hey, this is a tiny, tiny subset of women that post this misandrist shit.

It's the 10 million upvotes and the 1.7 million comments of all the other hateful, misandrist women cheering on their full hatred of men that makes me think, ok, maybe there's something to this socially acceptable misandry.

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Spyro7x3 · 2023-06-06T12:34:18+00:00

What I find interesting is that the most blackpilled women or perhaps the only organically blackpilled women are the OnlyFans top 10% in looks women that the incels complain about. Its crazy and almost seems like blackpill belongs to bottom of the barrel men and tip top tier women.

I saw a stream with top OnlyFans girls clowning on Amouranth and it was the most cynical blackpilled stuff I've ever heard in my life. They all openly admit and talk about everything incels do they were saying stuff like if men didn't give them money like they do that they'd be homeless and that they literally don't know how to do shit in the real world and even if they do their anxiety and misanthropy prevents them from going outside to work

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